Saw gas for $2.07 today. Hurray!
$2.07?!?!? I haven't seen gas that cheap in about 8 years! :o
Don't get used to it.... :icon_confused:
Read 2 days ago............... 2.05 in Iowa............... $1.85 in Missouri.
Expected to go down more over the next 4 weeks.
a buck eighty five is way too much.
I'm thinking approx $1.35 MAX looking at the value of the dollar in 1966 versus 2006.
Hell I was there. Pumping a pint (of gas) in my Lil Gen minibike for 26.9................(a gallon)
I get furious thinking about petrol............and "them"
What are you trying to say? :dunno_white:
Get over it OMW... Oil is only going to get more and more expensive. Withering Supply vs Growing Demand == WE'RE SCREWED!!!
I'll be dead before that happens :laugh:
$2.69 here lately....hope it lasts!
Quote from: Mr.7 on September 18, 2006, 07:05:23 PMI'll be dead before that happens :laugh:
:icon_confused: I hope not...
If you think it'll be 80 years before then... You're dreaming.
I gassed up two days ago, and I was shocked to see it down to 2.48 from 2.95
WOOT!
Quote from: Arvy Jackalope on September 18, 2006, 07:07:58 PM
Quote from: Mr.7 on September 18, 2006, 07:05:23 PMI'll be dead before that happens :laugh:
:icon_confused: I hope not...
If you think it'll be 80 years before then... You're dreaming.
It will be more than 80 years before we run out.
Demand is the same as it was few months ago, so how come gas prices are comming down?
Just food for thought.
gas prices go up as a trend. maybe not up in a straight line, but in general up :thumb:
A couple of weeks back I paid 99.9 pence per litre and thought that once it went over the pound it would never return, last week 92 pence per litre which I am reliably informed is about eight bucks per (US) gallon.
2.03 in Toledo, Ohio. down the road from my work its 2.14. filled up my bike in perrysburg, (just south of Toledo) for 2.09, but 89 was 2.19.
Quote from: porsche4786 on September 18, 2006, 09:50:56 PM
Quote from: Arvy Jackalope on September 18, 2006, 07:07:58 PM
Quote from: Mr.7 on September 18, 2006, 07:05:23 PMI'll be dead before that happens :laugh:
:icon_confused: I hope not...
If you think it'll be 80 years before then... You're dreaming.
It will be more than 80 years before we run out.
But it will be only a few years before it will be ridiculously expensive, forcing everybody to reconsider their lifestyle choices.
Lowest I know of here is $2.03, which happens to be 1 minute from work, and has been dropping $.03-.04 every day or two. It was $2.06 yesterday morning. It makes a big difference when I travel about 30 miles one way to work. So far, I have not had to pay more than $3.00/gal.
Quote from: blue05twin on September 18, 2006, 10:57:50 PM
Demand is the same as it was few months ago, so how come gas prices are comming down?
Just food for thought.
Because it's election time?
-fake edit- What I've heard is that it's a combination of three main factors: the end of hostilities between Israel / Hezbollah, the discovery of a huge, huge potential new source of crude in the Gulf seabed, and the lack of Hurricane activity this season.
I thought I was dreaming when I saw gas the other day for $2.21/gallon for 89 octane. The 87 octane was also $2.21, so I was like, uh, I'll take 89. I bet it is cheaper now. This was last week.
I have a twenty gallon tank in my truck, 10 mile commute each way.
Wow and I thought it was cheap here at $2.359/gallon. I've really enjoyed driving home from work the past couple weeks and seeing the price getting cheaper and cheaper just about everyday.
As for why it's getting cheaper, I've heard a lot of these conspiricy theories and what not, but they really are just a bunch of BS driven by people who don't understand how the free market system works. You see oil prices are driven the market, not by oil companies, not by some political machine, but the market. Up until recently, the market was driven by speculation, and not so much supply/demand as it should be. People were afraid there was going to be an oil shortage because of the middle east or another horrible hurricane or our 'horribly limited oil supply' or what ever else people are so terrorfied about. Because of a recent major oil find in the Gulf, the lack of hurricanes crippling oil production in the Gulf, the end of the Summer driving season, and the fact Iran hasn't nuked anyone yet, the current outlook on oil is more optimistic. So one day the market realized oil is not worth $70-80 a barrel, that they are paying way too much for oil, and they knew the oil prices were soon to drop so there is the mass exadus from the oil market as many investors decided to sell their oil stocks making oil cheaper and cheaper.
In reality, oil is still REALLY expensive and still costs way more than it's worth, it's just moving closer to where it should be. I'm sure fuel prices will go back up sooner or later for the same reason they did before, but there is no reason why they can't stay this cheap.
Quote from: LimaXray on September 19, 2006, 07:41:31 AMIn reality, oil is still REALLY expensive and still costs way more than it's worth, it's just moving closer to where it should be. I'm sure fuel prices will go back up sooner or later for the same reason they did before, but there is no reason why they can't stay this cheap.
Yeah, right. Fact is that demand is exceeding production capacity now and will continue to do so in the near future. Which, as every economist will tell you, will force prices up steeply. Google "peak oil" for some really scary stuff.
Quote from: Cal Price on September 19, 2006, 03:29:44 AM
A couple of weeks back I paid 99.9 pence per litre and thought that once it went over the pound it would never return, last week 92 pence per litre which I am reliably informed is about eight bucks per (US) gallon.
They get in cheap in the US. Complaining about $3.00 a gallon annoys me, but hey what can ya do.
Quote from: LimaXray on September 19, 2006, 07:41:31 AM
Wow and I thought it was cheap here at $2.359/gallon. I've really enjoyed driving home from work the past couple weeks and seeing the price getting cheaper and cheaper just about everyday.
Where in NJ are you at? Here where I live in Monroe Twp, they vary from $2.43 to $2.49 (regular unleaded). I think the cheapest I saw it was $2.39 in East Brunswick.
Quote from: MarkusN on September 19, 2006, 04:57:18 AM
But it will be only a few years before it will be ridiculously expensive, forcing everybody to reconsider their lifestyle choices.
What does gas price have to do with being ghey? ??? ??? ???
Hey, if all the good chicks live miles and miles away...
Quote from: MarkusN on September 19, 2006, 07:58:59 AM
Quote from: LimaXray on September 19, 2006, 07:41:31 AMIn reality, oil is still REALLY expensive and still costs way more than it's worth, it's just moving closer to where it should be. I'm sure fuel prices will go back up sooner or later for the same reason they did before, but there is no reason why they can't stay this cheap.
Yeah, right. Fact is that demand is exceeding production capacity now and will continue to do so in the near future. Which, as every economist will tell you, will force prices up steeply. Google "peak oil" for some really scary stuff.
the peak oil theory is way alarmist, and thats the nicest thing I can say about it.
Quote from: jackiei26 on September 19, 2006, 08:15:29 AM
Where in NJ are you at? Here where I live in Monroe Twp, they vary from $2.43 to $2.49 (regular unleaded). I think the cheapest I saw it was $2.39 in East Brunswick.
I live in western end of Morris County. We usually have slightly cheaper gas than the most of the state, but $2.43-2.49 is about what the prices were here late last week, so you're not far behind us. If you're prices are dropping like they are here, I bet by the end of day today or tomorrow you'll be seeing those prices too.
Quote from: Stephen072774 on September 19, 2006, 09:33:06 AM
the peak oil theory is way alarmist, and thats the nicest thing I can say about it.
exactly, and it's that 'the sky is falling' mindset that makes oil expensive, and not a real lack of supply.
Quote from: Stephen072774 on September 19, 2006, 09:33:06 AMQuote from: MarkusN on September 19, 2006, 07:58:59 AMYeah, right. Fact is that demand is exceeding production capacity now and will continue to do so in the near future. Which, as every economist will tell you, will force prices up steeply. Google "peak oil" for some really scary stuff.
the peak oil theory is way alarmist, and thats the nicest thing I can say about it.
Then maybe you should read the whole thing... Peak Oil isn't a theory, first of all. It's already happened in many countries, including the US. The Global Peak is what's next...
Peak Oil is simply the trend of demand outpacing supply... First discovery peaks, then production peaks, then demand peaks... That is what peak oil is about.
Oil discovery peaked globally years ago... So, next we have to look for a peak in production. Some say the peak in production has already happened others say it's still a few years off... And people that don't understand reality say it will never happen.
Peak oil has nothing to do with "running out" of oil. It has everything to do with supply and demand. When demand is greater than the supply, the price goes up. The bigger the difference between the demand and the supply, the higher the price goes... Add in the fact that oil production has (or is about to) peak, which means the production will go down, and the fact that demand is only going to get higher... Then you have a real problem for countries who's economies are entirely based on cheap oil... Like the US. 99% of our food production requires oil for fertilizer, pesticides, planting, harvesting, and transporting...
And if you think alternative fuels are going to jump in and save the day, take a look at Brazil. Do some research on their conversion to ethanol fuels and make sure to look at the date they started the conversion.
So, to recap... The worry is
not that we're running out of oil fuel. The worry is that oil fuel will become more and more expensive until economies around the world will begin to suffer... Then the worry is when oil becomes too scarce and expensive to be a viable source of fuel. It could take 20 years before the US feels it, but other countries are already feeling it... What would it take for the US economy to be impacted by oil prices? $100 per barrel? $120 per barrel? How much would gas have to cost per gallon before you couldn't afford to drive? $5.00? $10.00?
It's not if, it's when... 20 years? 40 years? 80 years?
And one last time, peak oil doesn't mean running out of oil, it means not finding enough cheap oil to keep up with demand.
Quote from: Kasumi on September 19, 2006, 08:00:19 AM
They get in cheap in the US. Complaining about $3.00 a gallon annoys me, but hey what can ya do.
I can't believe I had to pay $2.69 the other day! :mad: :P
I have read the whole thing, i know what its about... and yes I think there is a bit of truth in it. But its sure not gonna keep me up at night with worry. The US has oil in the gulf of mexico, some 40 years worth, that we haven't even figured out how to drill yet. And before you write me off saying I don't know what i'm talking about, I work in the coal industry... heck, we can even make oil from coal in ways we haven't even started exploring.
Quote from: Arvy Jackalope on September 19, 2006, 10:50:18 AM
Oil discovery peaked globally years ago... So, next we have to look for a peak in production. Some say the peak in production has already happened others say it's still a few years off... And people that don't understand reality say it will never happen.
I've never read the Peak Oil theory, I'll look into it. From what you said though, it has already happened here. Isn't this assuming that new, more efficient production methods aren't introduced? Aren't most of our refineries using ancient technology that could be updated if they were allowed to?
Not trying to start a fight, this is just a topic that interest me...
Quote from: Stephen072774 on September 19, 2006, 11:47:28 AM
The US has oil in the gulf of mexico, some 40 years worth, that we haven't even figured out how to drill yet. And before you write me off saying I don't know what i'm talking about, I work in the coal industry... heck, we can even make oil from coal in ways we haven't even started exploring.
Don't we also own huge oil fields in Alaska that haven't been tapped because of environmental reasons?
Quote from: Stephen072774 on September 19, 2006, 11:47:28 AMBut its sure not gonna keep me up at night with worry. The US has oil in the gulf of mexico, some 40 years worth, that we haven't even figured out how to drill yet. And before you write me off saying I don't know what i'm talking about, I work in the coal industry... heck, we can even make oil from coal in ways we haven't even started exploring.
It shouldn't keep you up at night... Since there's nothing you can do about it. ;)
40 years of oil? Oh yeah? Wow... Gee, I'm sure glad we found that! I'm gonna go get a H2 now![/sarcasm]
Srsly dude... Do you even know how much oil is 40 years worth? I'm talking 40 years of our current consumption rate, which is growing fast. The best annalists don't even know how much oil is 40 years worth... It's all theoretical usage based on current consumption. But, the demand for oil is growing faster than any annalist have ever projected... If an annalist had projected this much growth 10 years ago, they would have been called a nutter and dismissed as alarmist.
Even at our current rate, in the US ONLY, 40 years of oil is an incredible amount of oil... Any field that could provide that much oil would have to be 10x (or more) as big as the biggest oil field ever found.
And... Again.............. Peak oil isn't about running out of oil. It's about demand for oil outpacing the production of CHEAP oil. Yes, we can make oil from coal. We can extract oil from the sandstone in Canada... We can even make oil from left-over turkey parts... But, none of that is cheap, fast, or easy.
The truth is, we have enough burnable material on this planet that we'll probably never stop burning stuff... But... AGAIN... It's not about running out.
The "Alaskan Reserve" oil is about enough to keep up with demand for 2 years... And that's at current demand... Too bad it can't be extracted at that same rate.
Cheap Sweet Crude Oil is disappearing. We ARE running out of that... Heavy, dirty oil that requires much longer and more expensive processing isn't going to help the problem... Why? 'cause it costs a lot.
$120 per barrel? Isn't that the goal of anti-American terrorists like Osama? That's why oil that is expensive to refine isn't our saving grace.
Maybe you should look through the statistics again... Current world-wide oil usage... "Projected" Growth... x40... Then look up the amount of usable oil extracted from the largest oil field ever found. :thumb:
Amazing how an innocent little thread celebrating the price reduction of gas can turn into WWIII in such a short time.... :laugh:
ITEOTWAWKI
The US has 185 new coal fired power plants slated to go online in the next ten years, do you think that sounds like something we are running out of? Fossil fuels go hand in hand... that 40 years was an example of oil that we don't know how to drill yet, don't even know how to drill! Thats not counting whats readily available. 2 years in Alaska, come on... I, personally, hope we stay out of Alaska, because theres plenty in the Continental US and Gulf to last till were gone. Again, I find some truth to the Peak Oil theory, I just think its gonna be several more generations before the collapse of society forces us to live in caves rubbing sticks together.
And btw, I enjoy good conversation, its not ww3 by any stretch... I know I'm not gonna sway RV, but I enjoy the banter :thumb:
It's early yet! *ding ding* :thumb:
:kiss3:
We are WAAAY off from being out of coal... Natural gas is even pretty far off... That's not what I was saying and not what Peak Oil is about.... Although, those will peak as well.
There are several examples of peak oil, even right here in the US. Why do you think we're so dependent on foreign oil? We still have oil in the US, but it's just not enough because we peaked... Our local production peaked and our demand is still growing. We will continue to have "lots" of oil in the US, but it will never be enough to match our demand.
Countries that were previously light oil users (compared to the Americas and Europe) are now coming on line with the rest of us... That means that demand is no longer growing at a predictable rate... It's almost exponential. Yet, world-wide oil production hasn't been increasing.
If China hit half of our per capita usage, there'd be no oil left for anyone else.
Peak Oil is a reality of business... Peak "Wood" happened in Europe hundreds of years ago... Trees were over-harvested and became a rare resource. There are TONS of other examples of a finite resource being used faster than it can be replenished... So, why would oil be different?
So... On to alternative fuels... Again, take Brazil as a perfect example of alternative fuel conversion. They started back in the 80s. Yet, it's still not 100%. Why? Because the fluctuating price of oil has made it difficult to stabilize the ethanol market... Why would you pay more for E85 or 100% ethanol fuel when you can get petroleum gas? In normal engines, it burns better giving you more HP AND more MPG... (That rule doesn't apply to all Internal Combustion Engines... I think it's Volvo or Saab that has a turbo that gets better mileage AND HP when running E85)... So, 20+ years later Brazil is still trying to bring the price of ethanol fuels down to the price of petrol fuel...
Now, take the same example and apply it to the US. First, we're nowhere near setup to handle the demand of the consumer, much less the commercial oil usage, when it comes to ethanol-based fuels. Second, even if we were setup for it, you have to ask why Brazil can get the price so low..... Easy, nearly third-world economies have LOTS of manual laborers willing to work for almost nothing... Cheap manual labor means less fuel used in the creation of fuel and it means less cost in creation as well... Is the US ready for that? Not by a long shot.
Other alternatives? Hydrogen is an energy sink... It costs more energy to make than it creates... So, you're always working backwards. Now, I've heard that someone has come up with a way to make Hydrogen more efficiently. If that is true, then maybe hydrogen can break even... But, it's a loooooong way from being cheap or efficient to create. Now, in happy-happy-pretend land, if Hydrogen were as cheap as petroleum fuel, there's still the world-wide cost of conversion. Gas burning engines aren't easily converted to burning Hydrogen (and by easily, I mean cheaply and quickly) when compared to conversion to other fuel sources such as ethanol (which still isn't all that cheap).
Hybrid cars? Better, but they still require gas... Still not a solution. And cars aren't the real worry... It's machinery used for farming, food processing, and food transportation.
Electricity? Well, we're slowly getting to a place where the rare electric car is available to the rich... But, it's nowhere near a solution. Another problem to think about is where the electricity comes from... Solar? HA HA HA! Yeah right! Oil? Yup... Coal? Yup... WA is one of the very very few states that produces (something like) 90% of its electricity from non-fossil-fuel sources... Yay Hydro! (Sorta, but that's a whole different conversation).
What else? Biodiesel? Same basic problem as ethanol... Production VS Demand...
So, what's the solution? Well for one, a time machine. :laugh: And two, a government that takes energy seriously... If every single family home in the US produced 80% (or higher) of it's own energy needs on its own (solar and wind for power and geothermal for heating/cooling) that would be a good start. Nantucket is a grand example of what we have to look forward to... Then have nearly zero natural resources left on the island... So, they have to be pretty creative or pay a CRAP LOAD for basic needs. Yes, household geothermal heating/cooling is in use there... And it works.
So... For the normal consumer, a self-sufficient home and an electric car means you can still have your lights on and drive to work... The good news is that you'd be freeing up fuel for farming and transportation... But, those will need an alternative as well... Maybe, just maybe, Biodiesel and Ethanol production could keep pace with those industries.
Then we'd be all good. :icon_mrgreen:
The answer is nucleur. Our physicists are nowhere near understanding the forces and potentials at work inside the atom. Every year we get a little closer though and someday we'll fully harness the power of inter and intra nucleic forces just like we harnessed electricity.
Maybe it will be within my lifetime, maybe not. The fossil fuels will hold out until that time though.
Quote from: pandy on September 19, 2006, 12:40:51 PM
Amazing how an innocent little thread celebrating the price reduction of gas can turn into WWIII in such a short time.... :laugh:
+1
Don't worry this isn't the first time this has happened to one of my threads and it probably won't be the last.
...and Arvy Jackalope, do you accually believe the crap that you type? :dunno_white:
Quote from: Mandres on September 19, 2006, 02:36:39 PMThe fossil fuels will hold out until that time though.
I still don't think you quite get the concept... There will always be fossil fuels... But, there will not be enough of them to match the demand for them, which will drive prices up and cause serious economic problems.
Quote from: Mr.7 on September 19, 2006, 02:53:08 PM...and Arvy Jackalope, do you accually believe the crap that you type? :dunno_white:
Which part of the crap?
I don't think it's hard to understand... Supply and Demand is one of the simplest concepts in business and trade...
Do you understand:
- supply?
- demand?
- supply and demand can change the price of goods?
- large demand raises the price of any goods?
- a supply that can not meet demand raised the price even further?
- the demand for oil is increasing drastically?
- the production of oil is not increasing at the same pace as demand?
- world-wide discovery of new oil fields peaked about 20 years ago?
- discovery peaks are ALWAYS followed by production peaks? (This has been proven time and time again with more than just oil)
- once production peaks, demand will not stop growing?
- once demand exceeds production the price of oil will continue to get higher and higher until the economy is hurt by the price?
Do you understand all of these concepts and ideas so far? Do you think any of these are false?
Should I continue or will you do some research on your own?
I don't know what you kids are thinking arguing with OMW?
Don't you know he BELIEVES! And blind BELIEF is more important than silly little FACTS.
So don't worry about it, not like he's doing any damage to us (directly at least) a little advil won't fix.
You knw I just read through and there's no OWM in sight...... WTF? I could have sworn he at least ghost wrote some of these posts.......
BTW around here 2.85 a gallon is LOW for regular. So quit your whining.
OMW wrote this:
Quote from: Old Mr. Wilson on September 18, 2006, 06:56:49 PMRead 2 days ago............... 2.05 in Iowa............... $1.85 in Missouri. Expected to go down more over the next 4 weeks. a buck eighty five is way too much. I'm thinking approx $1.35 MAX looking at the value of the dollar in 1966 versus 2006. Hell I was there. Pumping a pint (of gas) in my Lil Gen minibike for 26.9................(a gallon) I get furious thinking about petrol............and "them"
And if you're calling me OMW and saying that I don't need facts... Mayhaps you should do some reading. ;)
Do I think any of those are false, no... Do I think that those factors can cause the collapse of modern society, no way! Thats where the peak oil theory goes off the deep end. Research till your hearts content, just becareful what you believe...
Those "understand" comments were for Mr7... Since you seemed to get the basics.
As far as the end of society? Eh... I've never been one for cataclysmic endings. Could it happen? Sure, anything can happen. The world population before the internal combustion engine was ~2 billion... Now we're ~6.5 billion... So, it took ~120 years to more than triple the total population. :o IF that key factor was the engine increasing food production and allowing other modern conveniences.... And IF that was taken away... It would be the end of the world as we know it...
But, I don't think either of those if are true...
And... The Peak Oil End of the World Theory you speak of must have come from peakoil.com... I've been talking about actual peak oil, which is also known as Hubert's Peak. It says nothing of the end of the world, only the end of affordable petroleum fuel (which may or may not be the end of the world, depending on who you ask).
i just slapped over 20 gallons in my f-150 today, for a measley $40. thats right in southern missouri i fillud up for 1.96 O0
Petrol prices are dropping down here as well unless you live in regional areas or drive a diesel where they continue to rape you at the pump. :mad: :mad:
The sooner we discover how turn poop into gas the better. :icon_mrgreen:
Methane... The Thunderdome theory...
It could be done... But, there's still not enough. :icon_razz:
Quote from: Mandres on September 19, 2006, 07:18:48 AM
Quote from: blue05twin on September 18, 2006, 10:57:50 PM
Demand is the same as it was few months ago, so how come gas prices are comming down?
Just food for thought.
Because it's election time?
-fake edit- What I've heard is that it's a combination of three main factors: the end of hostilities between Israel / Hezbollah, the discovery of a huge, huge potential new source of crude in the Gulf seabed, and the lack of Hurricane activity this season.
As much as I despise both neocons and oil companies, I don't see a historical trend of dramatically lower or higher prices before elections. I even plotted it.
(http://www.eng.fsu.edu/~rhunter/gasvselection.png)
the X-axis is meaningless. It's the numeric representation of the date if you really must know. The data goes from 8/20/1990-present. It is the weekly average gas price from here (http://www.eia.doe.gov/oil_gas/petroleum/data_publications/wrgp/mogas_history.html). The red circles are approximate election days. It's November 4th on even years 1990, 1992, ..., 2006. I didn't figure the exact date mattered in this case, so I averaged.
The y-axis is average price in cents per gallon. Looking at it, I don't see much that suggests election-day manipulation. There are some that look iffy, but nothing definite. There's a scary trend of what looks like exponential growth at the end though.
after seeing the title it made me thing, its 1.92 here in missouri, but its far from normal. normal would be back to a buck. they just make us think its better by lowering it back down to a high price. don't be fooled!!!!
$2.17 for reg unleaded in East Brunswick, NJ
How many of you are naive enough to believe either of these:
A) This "normal" pricing will exist in the spring
OR
B) The price is not (as Bob Woodward claims in his new book) being manipulated by the Saudis to affect the perception of the US economy and try to keep the Grand Oil Party in power.
If you believe either one, I'd like to show you my 200HP GS500E and I'd love to sell you some beachfront property here in Oklahoma!
Normal price should be approx. 1.38 a gallon. These prices are "not" normal.
Lol, you guys are funny.
World oil production will peak one day. Seemingly sometime soon. The severity of the implications vary depending on how it's handled. And whether we can agree on a suitable alternative..at this point it seems the only one is nuclear. Has anyone ever seen a population graph for the past thousand years?
(http://plus.maths.org/issue17/news/popn/oldpop.gif)
I'll take it onto myself to say your an idiot if you think thats sustainable in any sort of a way.
Natural gas production in North America has peaked. Canada sells half their production to the states, which makes up 15 percent of their usage, only. Do you think this can last? Oil discoveries world wide peaked in the 1960's.
Looking at this graph
(http://www.theoildrum.com/uploads/12/monthly_total_jan06.jpg)
Production hasnt increased since late 2004.
Take this to mean what you want, it could be nothing, or it could be everything.
The real question is why are the oil companies making record profits when they supposedly are suffering from such high per barrel prices?
They are stealing our money..billions of dollars from americans.
Quote from: RVertigo on September 19, 2006, 05:17:01 PM
Methane... The Thunderdome theory...
It could be done... But, there's still not enough. :icon_razz:
you kidding? the world is full of shaZam! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: banner on October 01, 2006, 02:25:34 PM
The real question is why are the oil companies making record profits when they supposedly are suffering from such high per barrel prices?
They are stealing our money..billions of dollars from americans.
yeah, no kidding! Conocophillips (i can't hate them too much since they are one of my customers...) but they made like 15 BILLION in profit, but of course this has nothing to do with the record high gas prices either, haha....do they think we are THAT stupid?!?! i guess some of us are...
uhhh... oil companies don't set the price of oil, the market does, and when the market wants to pay more for oil, obviously the oil companies are going to make more money because it still costs the same to pull the crap out of the ground.
supply and demand my friend, it's not the oil companies fault you all want your damn oil so badly and are willing to pay so much for it... this is just part of the free market system... if you don't like it, move to China or North Korea, I hear communism works great for them
the market sets high gas prices?
and here i was thinking it was simple price gouging;)
Quote from: LimaXray on October 02, 2006, 03:38:00 AM
uhhh... oil companies don't set the price of oil, the market does, and when the market wants to pay more for oil, obviously the oil companies are going to make more money because it still costs the same to pull the crap out of the ground.
supply and demand my friend, it's not the oil companies fault you all want your damn oil so badly and are willing to pay so much for it... this is just part of the free market system... if you don't like it, move to China or North Korea, I hear communism works great for them
Yes, but the oil companies are making more profit. Of course they will make more money, but they are making a lot more profit, $15 billion seems a bit greedy to me. They do not need to make that much profit.
Quote from: porsche4786 on October 02, 2006, 08:35:42 AM
Quote from: LimaXray on October 02, 2006, 03:38:00 AM
uhhh... oil companies don't set the price of oil, the market does, and when the market wants to pay more for oil, obviously the oil companies are going to make more money because it still costs the same to pull the crap out of the ground.
supply and demand my friend, it's not the oil companies fault you all want your damn oil so badly and are willing to pay so much for it... this is just part of the free market system... if you don't like it, move to China or North Korea, I hear communism works great for them
Yes, but the oil companies are making more profit. Of course they will make more money, but they are making a lot more profit, $15 billion seems a bit greedy to me. They do not need to make that much profit.
They will make as much profit as the market yields. In this day and age that is $15 billion.
Mother Theresa they ain't
Quote from: MarkusN on October 02, 2006, 08:45:31 AM
Quote from: porsche4786 on October 02, 2006, 08:35:42 AM
Quote from: LimaXray on October 02, 2006, 03:38:00 AM
uhhh... oil companies don't set the price of oil, the market does, and when the market wants to pay more for oil, obviously the oil companies are going to make more money because it still costs the same to pull the crap out of the ground.
supply and demand my friend, it's not the oil companies fault you all want your damn oil so badly and are willing to pay so much for it... this is just part of the free market system... if you don't like it, move to China or North Korea, I hear communism works great for them
Yes, but the oil companies are making more profit. Of course they will make more money, but they are making a lot more profit, $15 billion seems a bit greedy to me. They do not need to make that much profit.
They will make as much profit as the market yields. In this day and age that is $15 billion.
Mother Theresa they ain't
And that, my friends, is what happens when you deregulate the energy market and let laissez faire run free on essential products and services. Yet people want to deregulate the energy market. I would just loooove for the electricity companies to be able to do what the oil companies have.
The oil companies will continue to make record profits year after year until the government steps in.
The complete opposite of the airlines... Which will continue to lose record money year after year until the government steps in. :laugh:
Quote from: LimaXray on October 02, 2006, 03:38:00 AM
uhhh... oil companies don't set the price of oil, the market does, and when the market wants to pay more for oil, obviously the oil companies are going to make more money because it still costs the same to pull the crap out of the ground.
supply and demand my friend, it's not the oil companies fault you all want your damn oil so badly and are willing to pay so much for it... this is just part of the free market system... if you don't like it, move to China or North Korea, I hear communism works great for them
The "Supply and Demand" argument is horse crap on at least two levels.
1) There is no supply problem at present. The price is manipulated at a very high level (can you say monopoly? - I thought you could) by the multi-national oil corporations. In the late 70's O0 there was a supply problem (artificially created, but a problem nonetheless). There was not enough gas for people to buy what they wanted at any price. We had long lines and local rationing. Now there is no problem. We can buy all we want, if we meet their price.
2) The market is made up of consumer and seller. When the sellers are organized and the consumers aren't, the market isn't free anymore.
(SOAPBOX) We do not have free market capitalism. We have government OF corporations, BY corporations, and FOR corporations. Someday we will wish that we had asserted control over them when we still could.
If we truly had a free market, there would be no government business bailouts and corporate welfare. We need a government that stands up to corporations and demands that they act ethically and legally and shuts them down when they do not. Appropriate government regulation is a wonderful thing. When I was a young man, airlines were regulated and profitable. Ticket prices were based on the length of the trip. Now their prices in many markets are based on how much they can charge because they have been granted monopolies (or near monopolies) in some markets. So a one hour flight might be $400 or $69. I'll take government regulation over that ANY DAY.(/SOAPBOX)
The gas shortages in the states in the 70's were not in any way artifitial, the united states peaked as an oil producing province in 1970-1971, not realising it right away, after a few years they were short on supply. As the graph I posted on the previous page would dictate, there indeed is, a supply situation at present.
screw government regulation. until we have public regulation of the government, it's a bad idea.
Quote from: makenzie71 on October 02, 2006, 03:08:03 PM
screw government regulation. until we have public regulation of the government, it's a bad idea.
:laugh: :laugh:
+1
Quote from: makenzie71 on October 02, 2006, 03:08:03 PM
screw government regulation. until we have public regulation of the government, it's a bad idea.
Until we vote anti-corporate, nothing will change. Some of the Democrats and most of the Republicans are sold out to the corporate interest. We can and should vote for change.
do something about it, then.
Quote from: makenzie71 on October 02, 2006, 03:40:09 PM
do something about it, then.
What do you recommend? I'd start with killing off everyone who thinks Ayn Rand had great ideas, but they'd accuse me of being another Stalin or Mao... You just can't have a decent revolution in this country these days....
Quote from: makenzie71 on October 02, 2006, 03:40:09 PM
do something about it, then.
I do, almost every day! I educate people and I vote. I only get one vote, though, damn it all!
Quit yer bitchin', Americans. You don't even know when you've got it good. :cookoo: Most of Europe is paying 6 dollars a gallon for gas. That's what your Europhile tax & reg schemes will bring you and me the consumer.
Quote from: Gisser on October 02, 2006, 09:48:23 PM
Quit yer bitchin', Americans. You don't even know when you've got it good. :cookoo: Most of Europe is paying 6 dollars a gallon for gas. That's what your Europhile tax & reg schemes will bring you and me the consumer.
it's called you have insane taxes, but your actual price of gas without the tax is less than ours.
heres a good read...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15081350/site/newsweek/
I can't believe this thread is still going :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: Stephen072774 on October 04, 2006, 01:03:55 PMheres a good read...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15081350/site/newsweek/
Here's a good one from about 2 years ago...
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4287300/
haha that is an article about a dude that is trying to sell a book... reckon thats a fiction or non-fiction?
I guess that depends on what color your tie is... :dunno_white:
I thought he answered a lot of the common questions pretty well. :icon_confused:
But, I guess my tie is the wrong color.
I don't wear a tie at all...
Sensationalism at its finest... I'm sure the guys rich, too.
Everyone wears a tie... There's red, blue, purple, white, red... I could go on.
It's a euphemism.