Ok - so I bought 4 LED turn signals a few weeks ago. Been having some issues since everything needs to be rewired (next to impossible to find the bullet connectors in the same size so I replaced all of them). Currently, I have a few weird things happeneing:
1. When I turn the bike on, the left front comes on solid.
2. When I hit the T/S button left or right, they all come on Solid .. but the indicator is never on.
3. When the bike is in Park, the left front comes on yet again.
I have the Tridon 553 flasther unit installed. I'm assuming the left front is grounded somewhere but there's no exposed wires that I can find. I've been looking at the really nice wiring schematic (http://www.bbburma.net/Scans/Haynes_WiringDiagram_US_90-96.jpg) that John Bates posted last year but cannot find how the third scenario would happen (and I'm assuming they're all connected).
Any thoughts? I can take some pictures and post them tomorrow if they'd help.
PS - I went out to double check what was happening .. bike on centerstand and I have the clutch/starter kill overridden .... bike surged a little when I stared it but fired up. Walked back to look at the signals and noticed the rear wheel was spinning along haha.
Resistors.
Resistors.
Resistors.
Resistors.
Resistors.
Resistors.
Resistors.
Resistors.
Yeah - about Resistors. Where exactly do I put those in? And where can i buy them? Can't seem to find them anywhere.
And will that fix the front left always being on when the bike is on?
If you have a Fry's you can buy resistors there or the bigger radio shack stores.
No Fry's and the radio shacks around here blow. I guess I'll look online.
Quote from: MrDan on September 30, 2006, 04:22:24 PM
Ok - so I bought 4 LED turn signals a few weeks ago. Been having some issues since...
No doubt. Did you look over the
FAQ (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=24294.0) section on LEDs and other notes regarding this?
We would really need to know how the LEDs are supplied. Do they come as a complete unit ready to bolt on or are these bulb replacements?
The Haynes schematic you linked to is nice, but there is too much information there. I made a simplified turn signal schematic over a year ago. It shows just what you need to know regarding the turn signals.
Here it is again...click on it to see the big version
(http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/41/41309/folders/183441/Thumbnails/1508064TSschemcompjpg.jpg) (http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/41/41309/folders/183441/1508064TSschemcompjpg.jpg)
Resistors will do no good until you are certain that you have no wiring errors. Typically when LEDs are installed, the usually symptom is for all four turns signals to come on simultaneously. What most people don't realize about the GS wiring is that even the unused set has current flowing in them. It is what makes the blinker indicator light up. The unwanted set of signals provides the ground for the indicator lamp. LEDs draw so little current compared to the original bulbs that the trick Suz uses to light the indicator causes all four to light up.
Look over my simplied schematic and tell me if it make sense to you. I've included the wire colors (named) to sort out the mess.
Quote from: starwalt on September 30, 2006, 08:16:40 PM
Look over my simplied schematic and tell me if it make sense to you. I've included the wire colors (named) to sort out the mess.
Isn't he wonderful!
And did I mention that mrs. starwalt makes THE best chocolate pound cake in the universe? I've heard that mr. starwalt is quite a dancer. Truly a Renaissance couple!! :kiss3:
How come the Miss Drops-a-lot got some pount cake???
Quote from: The Post Whore on September 30, 2006, 09:23:36 PM
How come the Miss Drops-a-lot Beautiful got some pount cake???
"Pount" cake?? :dunno_white:
I meant POUND cake...
So... uh... why???
I want some!
CCPC may not be to your liking. It takes a refined sense of taste and a mature outlook on the world to appreciate.
You are welcome to fill out an application for consideration.
Did I mention that Pandy is the Director of Applications for new petitioners? :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: MrDan on September 30, 2006, 04:22:24 PM
Ok - so I bought 4 LED turn signals a few weeks ago. Been having some issues since everything needs to be rewired (next to impossible to find the bullet connectors in the same size so I replaced all of them). Currently, I have a few weird things happeneing:
1. When I turn the bike on, the left front comes on solid.
2. When I hit the T/S button left or right, they all come on Solid .. but the indicator is never on.
3. When the bike is in Park, the left front comes on yet again.
I have the Tridon 553 flasther unit installed. I'm assuming the left front is grounded somewhere but there's no exposed wires that I can find. I've been looking at the really nice wiring schematic (http://www.bbburma.net/Scans/Haynes_WiringDiagram_US_90-96.jpg) that John Bates posted last year but cannot find how the third scenario would happen (and I'm assuming they're all connected).
Any thoughts? I can take some pictures and post them tomorrow if they'd help.
PS - I went out to double check what was happening .. bike on centerstand and I have the clutch/starter kill overridden .... bike surged a little when I stared it but fired up. Walked back to look at the signals and noticed the rear wheel was spinning along haha.
The brown wire is hot with the ignition key switch in park position. Did you inadvertently hook this up to the left front turn signal?
Here is the usual solution to the LED problems if the LEDs are not designed for our application.
There are two problems when substituting with LEDs that are not designed as direct replacements for incandescent bulbs.
1. The resistance of the bulbs/LEDs determines the flash rate. Since incandescent bulbs have a different resistance than LEDs, the flash rates will differ.
The el-12 variable load flasher may fix this.
CORRECTION: The el-12 is not a variable load flasher. It is an electro-mechanical flasher for lamps, not LEDs.
The Trico EP37 is an electronic flasher that should work with either LEDs or bulbs.
2. For the stock GS500 all four turn signals carry current at the same time because the ground for the indicator lamp is through the other set of turn signal bulbs. (If you have the left turn signal switch on, then the ground for the indicator lamp is through the right turn signal bulbs.) The current through the indicator lamp is to low to light the normal turn signal bulbs, but enough to light the LEDs.
The el-12 variable load flasher won't fix this.The solution for this is to add two diodes to the turn signal circuit.
See
customdynamics (http://www.customdynamics.com/load_equalizer_diodes.htm) for the location of the diodes in the circuit.
:cheers:
Quote from: starwalt on September 30, 2006, 08:16:40 PM
Quote from: MrDan on September 30, 2006, 04:22:24 PM
Ok - so I bought 4 LED turn signals a few weeks ago. Been having some issues since...
No doubt. Did you look over the FAQ (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=24294.0) section on LEDs and other notes regarding this?
We would really need to know how the LEDs are supplied. Do they come as a complete unit ready to bolt on or are these bulb replacements?
The Haynes schematic you linked to is nice, but there is too much information there. I made a simplified turn signal schematic over a year ago. It shows just what you need to know regarding the turn signals.
Here it is again...click on it to see the big version
(http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/41/41309/folders/183441/Thumbnails/1508064TSschemcompjpg.jpg) (http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/41/41309/folders/183441/1508064TSschemcompjpg.jpg)
Resistors will do no good until you are certain that you have no wiring errors. Typically when LEDs are installed, the usually symptom is for all four turns signals to come on simultaneously. What most people don't realize about the GS wiring is that even the unused set has current flowing in them. It is what makes the blinker indicator light up. The unwanted set of signals provides the ground for the indicator lamp. LEDs draw so little current compared to the original bulbs that the trick Suz uses to light the indicator causes all four to light up.
Look over my simplied schematic and tell me if it make sense to you. I've included the wire colors (named) to sort out the mess.
I actually read over everything about a dozen times. I linked to the bigger picture since maybe there was an obvious place wires cross or something :)
Anyway, this is a unit that is commercially available. It is a twin pack of short stalk LED signals. Each signal has a board with 3 LEDs inside. It's actually not that well constructed as the boards sort of float in the housing.
I'll have to check how everything is wired this evening. It may be as simple as using the Brown wire on the front left (as John mentioned). I'll take a picture and mark it up this evening.
Good to know you didn't waltz into this totally ignorant and you get two gold stars for giving it a try. :thumb:
John had a good wiring idea to check. That's why I simplified the schematic to show only those wires used for the signal circuit. I guess one day I am going to have to get my hands on some of those LEDs and do a thorough analysis/modification write up.
Did the LEDs come with any instructions? If so, it would be great if you could scan them and post them or if the instructions are online I could look there.
No instructions that I could find. I'll double check this evening. If I cannot figure this out, I'd be willing to send them on down for you to play with :)
I actually had your schematic printed and sitting next to me as I was double checking everything this weekend. I was a little confused since it seems that there are 2 pairs of wires for each light plus a double black wire that the originals were plugged in. So that meant an extra wire from each pair (does that make sense?)
I have a feeling that I plugged the front left in to the double (ground?) and the brown. But wouldn't that be 2 grounds and therefore not work at all? Let alone always on?
I'll see what I can post this evening.
Oh - and I too heard the CCPC was awesome :)
Hmmm. What year is this bike?
It's an 89. The wiring looks original - but it might just me old.
Quote from: MrDan on October 02, 2006, 11:10:07 AM
It's an 89. The wiring looks original - but it might just me old.
My GS project is a 90 as is the donor chassis and the one I plan to buy from a coworker. Just wanted to make sure that my drawing was applicable. Later models may have some minor changes...connectors, wire colors, etc. But they are all very close. The turn signal circuitry is the same operation though.
Current models have more wiring for the throttle position feedback and the electric tach. The signal generator is different also.
Ok .. so here's what I found. Let me know if it's too small to read
(http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/1365/img2706editmv2.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
(http://img85.imageshack.us/img85/1365/img2706editmv2.th.jpg) (http://img85.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img2706editmv2.jpg)
My wires are Red and Black.
John - you were right, I had it connected to the Brown wire. It looks like maybe the Left Front should connect to Red/Black&White and Black/Black?
Between this and trying to build a DVR, I'm going insane :icon_confused:
Concerning the LEFT FRONT TSignal wiring...
The Red wire from the LED assembly should go to the Black wire of the GS.
[The Black GS wire has +12V when the TSig switch is ON.]
The Black wire from the LED assembly should go to the Black/White wire of the GS.
[The Black/White wire of the GS is nearly always Return (aka Negative, Earth, Ground.]
For the RIGHT FRONT TSig -- Red goes to Light Green.
[The Light Green wire has +12V when the TSig switch is ON.]
Black to Black/White as with the Left Front.
This assumes that the usual convention of Red=+ and Black =- for LED lamps.
This also assumes that you are connecting to the original GS TSig wires. :)
An unmodified GS uses the same color for the front and rear TSig wires.
Quote from: MrDan on October 02, 2006, 09:52:03 AMI'll see what I can post this evening.
Quote
You did well! I am sorry my diagram wasn't clear enough for you. I have an idea of laying out a wiring harness and photographing each section of the harness for connector identification. Something like a dissected GS nervous system for medical research.
QuoteOh - and I too heard the CCPC was awesome :)
If you would like to apply for a tester's permit, Pandy is the Application Administrator.
Be warned, abuses of power are common in the world of CCPC. The DEA has threatend to classify it and force a controlled substance status on it. ;)
Some guys with black limos and sunglasses have been hanging around lately too. :icon_confused:
Quote from: starwalt on October 03, 2006, 05:30:35 AM
Concerning the LEFT FRONT TSignal wiring...
The Red wire from the LED assembly should go to the Black wire of the GS.
[The Black GS wire has +12V when the TSig switch is ON.]
The Black wire from the LED assembly should go to the Black/White wire of the GS.
[The Black/White wire of the GS is nearly always Return (aka Negative, Earth, Ground.]
For the RIGHT FRONT TSig -- Red goes to Light Green.
[The Light Green wire has +12V when the TSig switch is ON.]
Black to Black/White as with the Left Front.
This assumes that the usual convention of Red=+ and Black =- for LED lamps.
This also assumes that you are connecting to the original GS TSig wires. :)
An unmodified GS uses the same color for the front and rear TSig wires.
Ok - I believe the double connector is Black/White but it might just be Black. I'll play around tonight.
If I remember correctly, when I was basically trying every combination, if I move the FL Red from Brown to Black, I get the 4 solid on. And still no Indicator. Would that mean I need to play with the flasher relay that I just installed?
Quote from: MrDan on October 03, 2006, 07:07:13 AM
Ok - I believe the double connector is Black/White but it might just be Black. I'll play around tonight.
Oooooh I can't wait to hear how this one comes out! :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: starwalt on October 03, 2006, 05:42:03 AM
If you would like to apply for a tester's permit, Pandy is the Application Administrator. Be warned, abuses of power are common in the world of CCPC. The DEA has threatend to classify it and force a controlled substance status on it. ;) Some guys with black limos and sunglasses have been hanging around lately too. :icon_confused:
MrDan would NEVER appreciate the delicate nature of CCPC syndrome. He puts PEPPERS in BROWNIES! ??? As Application Administrator, I'm sorry to say that we're not accepting applications at the moment. I must wait to see what the DEA says (but they're busy with spinach right now :icon_lol: ;) ). If anyone tries to horn in on my CCPC, the men in dark glasses and limos will visit you, followed by the men in white coats....so back off! :2guns: :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: pandy on October 03, 2006, 09:19:53 AM
Quote from: MrDan on October 03, 2006, 07:07:13 AM
Ok - I believe the double connector is Black/White but it might just be Black. I'll play around tonight.
Oooooh I can't wait to hear how this one comes out! :icon_mrgreen:
Neither can I :laugh:
Quote from: pandy on October 03, 2006, 09:19:53 AM
Quote from: starwalt on October 03, 2006, 05:42:03 AM
If you would like to apply for a tester's permit, Pandy is the Application Administrator. Be warned, abuses of power are common in the world of CCPC. The DEA has threatend to classify it and force a controlled substance status on it. ;) Some guys with black limos and sunglasses have been hanging around lately too. :icon_confused:
MrDan would NEVER appreciate the delicate nature of CCPC syndrome. He puts PEPPERS in BROWNIES! ??? As Application Administrator, I'm sorry to say that we're not accepting applications at the moment. I must wait to see what the DEA says (but they're busy with spinach right now :icon_lol: ;) ). If anyone tries to horn in on my CCPC, the men in dark glasses and limos will visit you, followed by the men in white coats....so back off! :2guns: :icon_mrgreen:
Ouch .. And to think I was going to send you Kobe steaks for your birthday :flipoff:
You need a wagner 552 flasher. You also cannot put in resistors into a pre made T/S system, its already in there. Then you should just wire it all up as it was before. they worked before right ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: seshadri_srinath on October 03, 2006, 10:50:41 AM
You need a wagner 552 flasher. You also cannot put in resistors into a pre made T/S system, its already in there. Then you should just wire it all up as it was before. they worked before right ...
Cool.
Srinath.
I got the 552 flasher made by Tridon - should be the same unit. I put that in and will (hopefully) finish correcting the wiring this evening. I didn't try the stock turn signals with the flasher, but the bike worked perfectly stock .... I'm the one who had to go and mess around hahahahaa
Ok ... figured out I made a bad connector. So here's where I'm at now.
T/S switch on = all for lights solid but no indicator
Using a voltmeter (or whatever it's called), I'm getting 10.5ish on both wires at the 552 flasher and 8-9 when the TSs are on.
What's next? The guy working on it with me said it's a bad TSSwitch but I'm not convinced. Am I correct in recalling that removing the TS indicator bulb will correct this?
Other thoughts?
bump .. no thoughts?
Quote from: MrDan on October 05, 2006, 08:49:27 AM
Ok ... figured out I made a bad connector. So here's where I'm at now.
T/S switch on = all for lights solid but no indicator
This is expected because the indicator ckt needs to be modified to work with LEDs.
Quote from: MrDan on October 05, 2006, 08:49:27 AM
Using a voltmeter (or whatever it's called), I'm getting 10.5ish on both wires at the 552 flasher and 8-9 when the TSs are on.
:cheers:
The voltages are ok, assuming the engine is not running.
Quote from: MrDan on October 05, 2006, 08:49:27 AM
What's next? The guy working on it with me said it's a bad TSSwitch but I'm not convinced. Am I correct in recalling that removing the TS indicator bulb will correct this?
Other thoughts?
You need to add two diodes and a ground connection to the indicator ckt.
This is the stock ckt
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k304/miphotoz_2006/turnsigmono.jpg)
Here's what you need to end up with.
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k304/miphotoz_2006/ledtestmono.jpg)
Nice job John! :thumb:
I got busy and let this one slip away. I hope MrDan is blinking away now.
I'll uhhh try this Monday hopefully. Been dealing with all the stuff associated with 2 friends getting married.
Where do I get those Diodes again? And just use any wire to ground?
Quote from: MrDan on October 07, 2006, 08:22:44 PM
.........................................Where do I get those Diodes again? And just use any wire to ground?
I would use a diode from
Radio Shack (http://www.radioshack.com/product/index.jsp?productId=2036269&cp=2032058&f=Taxonomy%2FRSK%2F2032058&categoryId=2032058&kwCatId=2032058&kw=diode&parentPage=search) or one with similar electrical characteristics.
A 1N4003 for $.69 each. Radio Shack Catalog No. 276-1102.
Inside the headlight housing:
I would cut the lt. green and black wires at the main wiring harness side of the blue connector. (not the side of the connector that connects to the turn signal indicator light) Attach a diode to each of the cut wires from the main harness. Twist the other ends (the ends with the silver colored band) of the diodes together and connect them to the cut lt. green wire that's coming from the blue connector.
Connect the cut black wire that's coming from the blue connector to the spare ground wire (black/white) or any black/white wire within the headlight housing. Use a wire size that is at least as big as the existing wiring. If there is enough slack in the existing wires you may be able to splice the black wire directly to the spare black/white wire.
IMPORTANTThe diode end with the silver colored band connects to the indicator light.
Solder all connections and insulate all bare wires with heat shrink or tape.
:cheers:
Here's a pic of the wiring in my headlight bucket:
(http://i91.photobucket.com/albums/k304/miphotoz_2006/headlighthousingwiringgs500001.jpg)
:cheers:
Ok - Update time :)
I put the two Diodes in (thanks John - took myself and a mechanic but we figured it out).
Now, with the Wagner 552 Flasher in, the indicator works with the lights BUT the turn signals are really faint - barely any light. And they don't flash.
With the stock flasher, everything is bright and looks good .. cept still no flashing.
So now what?
Are you saying the LEDs are dim with the 552, but bright with the stock?
(I think that is what you are saying.)
I would not expect the stock flasher to work with the LEDs -- not enough current flowing in the circuit.
As a test, you should be able to put a jumper in place of the TSR (relay). It only has two wires (be careful and don't get the jumper on the chassis or SNAP! you will arc something up).
With a jumper in, when you press Left or Right, the panel indicator should light AND the respective side should light constantly.
The idea here is to eliminate the TSR as a source of resistance. Hmmmm -- interesting.
Aggrivating for you Mr Dan, but interesting to me (in a Mr. Spock sort of way).
So just use a standard jumper on this to test? I can do that :) Would a piece of wire work as well?
Alrighty ... so that was interesting.
1. 552 Flasher in = no power to LEDs, faint solid at indicator
2. Stock Flasher = solid at LED (1 side) AND indicator
3. Piece of wire in place = solid at LED (1 side) AND indicator
So the Stock flasher and the piece of wire had the same result while the 552 didn't work. And this is a brand new one - I exchanged just in case I blew out the old one somehow.
So it sounds like the result you anticipated is correct :)
But what's that mean? hahahahaha
Sounds like the 552 is hosed. At the least it should have had the same result as the stock TSR. I cannot remember if anyone has had a successful LED conversion with a 552 TSR.
John Bates mentioned another TSR previously -- the el12 variable load flasher. I couldn't locate it on the custom dynamics link from the first page.
I bet it ain't cheap though.
This goes back to one of my ideas to make a LED replacement that uses the same current as the stock bulb. That keeps this kink of a problem from happening.
You could try another 552, but....you really need a non load dependent TSR. It also may require some more rewiring. The stock is inserted inline with the system. A non load dependent unit my need a separate "On" command, ground, and voltage source.
Keep us posted.
Quote from: MrDan on October 09, 2006, 08:11:03 PM
Alrighty ... so that was interesting.
1. 552 Flasher in = no power to LEDs, faint solid at indicator
2. Stock Flasher = solid at LED (1 side) AND indicator
3. Piece of wire in place = solid at LED (1 side) AND indicator
So the Stock flasher and the piece of wire had the same result while the 552 didn't work. And this is a brand new one - I exchanged just in case I blew out the old one somehow.
So it sounds like the result you anticipated is correct :)
But what's that mean? hahahahaha
Results 2 and 3 are as expected.
Result 1 is because the 552 is the same as the stock flasher. Try a
Trico (http://www.tricoproducts.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=286&location_id=129) EP37. It's supposed to be for LEDs or bulbs.
My earlier reference to el12 is incorrect. I should have said EP37.
:cheers:
I actually had the same result with my first (possibly hosed) 552 and a brand new one that I went out and got. So I think the flasher's fine - just not for this application.
I'll order one of those EP37 ($20 plus s/h WOW). This is getting to be almost as expensive as my wileyco CF exhaust.
But it's good to learn on I guess.
So - this the EP37 needs to be hard wired, is it possible to get a connector like is currently on the bike so I can make it swappable with the original? At some point, I'll want to restore the bike to stock and will probably want to take my $90 LED Turn Signals with me :)
I'll let everyone know what happens when I get the new unit.
Thanks John and Starwalt.
Quote from: MrDan on October 10, 2006, 07:12:17 AM
I actually had the same result with my first (possibly hosed) 552 and a brand new one that I went out and got. So I think the flasher's fine - just not for this application.
I'll order one of those EP37 ($20 plus s/h WOW). This is getting to be almost as expensive as my wileyco CF exhaust.
But it's good to learn on I guess.
So - this the EP37 needs to be hard wired, is it possible to get a connector like is currently on the bike so I can make it swappable with the original? At some point, I'll want to restore the bike to stock and will probably want to take my $90 LED Turn Signals with me :)
I'll let everyone know what happens when I get the new unit.
Thanks John and Starwalt.
OOOPS! SORRY
I had the wrong URL for the
Trico (http://www.tricoproducts.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=286&location_id=129)flasher.
Quote from: John Bates on October 10, 2006, 07:45:22 AM
OOOPS! SORRY
I had the wrong URL for the Trico (http://www.tricoproducts.com/brochure.cfm?brochure=286&location_id=129)flasher.
Hmmm ... so did I just order the wrong thing?
What did you order?
:cheers:
Quote from: John Bates on October 10, 2006, 07:51:27 AM
What did you order?
:cheers:
The one you originally linked :) http://www.customled.com/PRODUCTS/FLASHER_RELAY/flasher_relay.htm
Then you went all tricky and change that link too hahahahaha
Oh my gosh! I thought the URL for the Trico was in my copy buffer and I didn't test it.
The one you bought will work fine, but you will have to hard wire it or change to compatable connectors.
Sorry.
Also, make sure you get the polarity correct.
:cheers:
Where can I get a compatable connector? Is that something that should be easy to find?
Edit: Just broke 300 posts ... and I think about half of them are about these Turn Signals haha
Auto parts store most likely.
Radio Shack for a generic (Molex style) connector.
:cheers:
Works for me .... riiiight after I google "Molex style connector"
You might consider an adapter cable that just plugs into the original GS TSR socket. If you find the plug for the new relay, just exit the plug with some male spade connectors to insert into the original GS TSR socket.
This way if/when you let the bike go, you can return to stock quickly. Of course any new wiring to make the new relay work would be an issue also.
John and I ought to come up with an new wiring harness that makes this easier. But then pulling the harness out of the GS isn't a simple thing -- I know.
I even retaped the entire harness on my 90 project because the original tape was all yucky, dirty, and falling off.
Yep. I'm anal that way. :cookoo:
Quote from: starwalt on October 10, 2006, 07:16:05 PM
You might consider an adapter cable that just plugs into the original GS TSR socket. If you find the plug for the new relay, just exit the plug with some male spade connectors to insert into the original GS TSR socket.
This way if/when you let the bike go, you can return to stock quickly. Of course any new wiring to make the new relay work would be an issue also.
John and I ought to come up with an new wiring harness that makes this easier. But then pulling the harness out of the GS isn't a simple thing -- I know.
I even retaped the entire harness on my 90 project because the original tape was all yucky, dirty, and falling off.
Yep. I'm anal that way. :cookoo:
I was thinking about that last night. Everything's all twisted in there and makes it hard to get the headlight back in haha.
I was ignoring all the other wiring when I mentioned undoing it all ... rather not think of that ATM.
They work!!!!!!!!!! :thumb:
Pix to follow when I return from LA/SD next weekend. :cheers:
Thanks to Starwalt and John Bates and everyone else who chimed in :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Quote from: MrDan on October 13, 2006, 05:40:25 PM
They work!!!!!!!!!! :thumb:
Pix to follow when I return from LA/SD next weekend. :cheers:
Thanks to Starwalt and John Bates and everyone else who chimed in :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
It's good to hear positive results.
Good job.
:cheers: