Hi, I realize this has probably been beaten to death elsewhere and I will get very biased opinions.. I mean this is a GS board afterall..
I can get either a ninja 250 ('07 model year) or an '04 GS500 for about the same price. I would have a passenger from time to time, and this bike would be used for commuting to/from school or just cruising. I have read through the FAQs on this website and I see that I can squeeze probably another 10-15hps out of the GS500F.
Questions:
a. Can the GS500F be geared differently, for example .. lower "cruising gears".. perhaps a lower final drive?
b. Are the 50-70mpg fuel guesstimates reliable? What sort of economy do you folks see? Will modding (exhaust, jetting, ingition timing, etc) adversely effect my fuel economy?
c. Is the GS500F on average a fun bike (for those boring nights)
d. How does the bike feel at speed? One of the biggest turn offs about the 250 is that it DIES after 80mph (highway cruise speed).
e. Where does the passenger rest their feet?
and finally..
f. The cost of the GS will be about 2700-3500, is it overall a better buy for a FIRST TIME motorcyclist than a $3000 ninja 250R?
GS500. The 250 is, to me, a little small for anything except the most cluttered urban riding.
Quotea. Can the GS500F be geared differently, for example .. lower "cruising gears".. perhaps a lower final drive?
Yes.
Quoteb. Are the 50-70mpg fuel guesstimates reliable? What sort of economy do you folks see? Will modding (exhaust, jetting, ingition timing, etc) adversely effect my fuel economy?
55~60mpg. Modifications will effect your economy on anything.
Quotec. Is the GS500F on average a fun bike (for those boring nights)
Yes
Quoted. How does the bike feel at speed? One of the biggest turn offs about the 250 is that it DIES after 80mph (highway cruise speed).
The 500 will do around 100~110. At those speeds, to me, though the bike felt a bit light and unsteady...it's obviously not it's element.
Quoteere does the passenger rest their feet?
ummm...on the pillion pegs.
Quotecost of the GS will be about 2700-3500, is it overall a better buy for a FIRST TIME motorcyclist than a $3000 ninja 250R?
The GS is a better bike to start on unless you live like in the middle of down-town Houston and do not intend to ride out.
Quote from: makenzie71 on October 04, 2006, 07:45:46 PM
Quoteb. Are the 50-70mpg fuel guesstimates reliable? What sort of economy do you folks see? Will modding (exhaust, jetting, ingition timing, etc) adversely effect my fuel economy?
55~60mpg. Modifications will effect your economy on anything.
Also your riding technique affects this.
Quote from: J0HN on October 04, 2006, 07:49:44 PM
Quote from: makenzie71 on October 04, 2006, 07:45:46 PM
Quoteb. Are the 50-70mpg fuel guesstimates reliable? What sort of economy do you folks see? Will modding (exhaust, jetting, ingition timing, etc) adversely effect my fuel economy?
55~60mpg. Modifications will effect your economy on anything.
Also your riding technique affects this.
Please elaborate
If you "Ride it like you stole it," your gas mileage will go down.
If you ride like you're "Driving Miss Daisey," your gas mileage will go up.
I ride it like I stole it and I average about 50 MPG with a 15T front sprocket (Stock is 16T, so a 15T makes you ride in Higher RPMs to reach the same speed).
meh I can't figure out how to word it propperly so I'll come back to it...
Oh and...
Like the others said, the 250 is cool for around town and twisty riding (it can go on the freeway, but it's spun pretty high)...
The 500 is better for higher speeds (such as Highway).
The GS is a forgiving bike, so learning on it is a lot easier than the bigger bikes out there. But, it's still big enough to ride for years and hang with the "big boys" in the curves.
Dude, PLEASE do not get a ninja 250. WAY too underpowered. The GS500 leaves PLENTY of room to grow for year and handles well with 2 people, your 250 will struggle enough to notice with 2 people. Please do yourself a favor and do not get a 250.
Quote from: tussey on October 04, 2006, 07:59:04 PM
Dude, PLEASE do not get a ninja 250. WAY too underpowered. The GS500 leaves PLENTY of room to grow for year and handles well with 2 people, your 250 will struggle enough to notice with 2 people. Please do yourself a favor and do not get a 250.
Alright, that was subtle *sarcasm*
Okay, I heard the ride was really soft, is there adjustable suspension?
Quote from: rowingdude on October 04, 2006, 07:40:58 PM
I have read through the FAQs on this website and I see that I can squeeze probably another 10-15hps out of the GS500F.
Only with MAJOR mods. You'll be lucky to squeeze 5 or 6 out with the standard intake/exhaust mods.
Get the GS.
Quote from: rowingdude on October 04, 2006, 08:00:25 PMOkay, I heard the ride was really soft, is there adjustable suspension?
It really depends on how much you weight... Under 150ish and you'll be fine.
Over... Get new springs up front. Progressives or Race Tech (or similar) straight rate springs.
That will make a HUGE difference.
And if it's still not enough, get a Katana (or similar) rear shock.
I paid about $70 for the front and $25 for the rear.
So, I should start looking at suspension upgrades immediately after purchase? I'm ~200lbs
it's not a bad idea.
Thanks for your replies.
What price should I work toward on a 2004 GS500(F??) with 5-7k on the clock?
$3k~ish
I think it's marked just over $3kish
without knowing specifics it's hard to give you a good idea of what it should cost. Brand new '04's will run about $4100 out the door. Less than 5000 miles and she should be almost $3000 even...but it's all dependant on condition, modifications, and owner attachment. If it's in mint condition, $3400 doesn't seem unreasonable.
And if it's Yellow... That's worth at least another $500... Well, at least to me. :laugh:
I know plenty of people have given you advice, but I frequently ride with a friend with a Ninja 250....
Its rough for him on the freeways.... He's around 8k in 6th, compared to me around 6k in 6th. His is very manuaverable, but no more so than mine, and just like the GS... Ninja's suspension is problematic. Also, he has a problem with oil going into the airbox when its on its side stand. I've never dug for specifics, but he always parks it on the centerstand.
Overall Both bikes will serve you well... its just that one will last you alittle longer.... and I think you know which one.
As far as 250s go the ninja is the only one that isn't totally worthless. It can actually go on the freeway, but you're wringing it out pretty hard. The GS500 or the ninja 500 is a much better choice because it can carry a passenger on the freeway without much strain. At 200lbs, forget a passenger on the 250.
Obviously everyone on this forum likes the GS500, but I would strongly recomend a 500 (ninja or GS) as a starter bike because it isn't so powerfull that you're going to have it wheelie away from you the first time you accidently dump the clutch, but it has enough power to cruise comfortably on the freeway.
If you start with a 250, as soon as you're comfortable with it, you'll move on to something larger, so you can take it on trips and have some fun. A 500 will do everything you need it to, and it'll be a while before you feel the need to move on.
The suspension on the GS and the ninja 250 is too soft, but it isn't terribly hard or expensive to fix.
Also the ninja has full fairings, and you know you'll screw those up in a couple of weeks.
Good luck :cheers:
The GT250 is also a pretty spiffy 250...
but it's still a 250
I used to wring the gs500's little neck in the canyons and still pull 55mpg! at your "stature" you'd be better off with one of the two 500's (ninja or gs). if its a first bike dont think about performance mods. You WILL want to address the budget suspension (true for any of the three bikes discussed here). other than that you can just gas it up and ride it, repeat.
Quotebut it's still a 250
A superbly spiffy, badass sounding 250, though...
hyosungs arent getting rave reviews. cheap(er) knock-offs of cheap bikes.
nah they get knocked because they're knock-offs. The GT650, for example, has mass reviews of crappy brakes and a REALLY crappy rear shock. You know what the first things SV owners tweak and replace are? lol Odd that that bikes suffer the same shortcomings as their name-brand varients, but there's little else listed for them being problematic. Only other complaints I've heard is the the fit and finnish isn't as up to snuff as the zooki...but it's $2000 cheaper. Go figure.
actually there is more shortcomings to them. their build quality is sub-par. motorcyclist (?) did a review of the gt650 and found things falling off, finishes done poorly, etc. its not just the same low spec stuff on the sv, its actually an inferior product and its not priced low enough to compensate for that, IMO.
IIRC their review was of the "R"...I remember reading it. Having dealt with the R's in person yeah the finnish quality on them is crappy. The fairings look pretty slick from about 30ft or in pics...in person the paint is crappy and the seams aren't fitted very well.
Outside of that there things like the casting seams on the wheels and calipers aren't filed down and I don't like the way the front of the tank buckles down...standing over it makes it look "odd" but I don't know how to explain it. The plastic guage pod and the small "filler" pieces would never survive a wreck and I wouldn't give them longer than a 10yr use life, but they do the job. The tail and the tank, though, have decent paint and finnish...you can tell when in person that they paid close attention to these two things and getting them propperly fitted up. The fairings and instrument cluster were complete after-thoughts. Originally they were going to have to big round guages like the GS...metal casings and all. The engine and exhaust and pegs are all tight...finnish quality there is pretty good, but the seams are poorly finnished on the frame just like the wheels.
I want one, though...but I won't have it for a week before there's an ohlins on the back, tokico's and a 3/4 master on the front, SV guages and an Akro SV exhaust...all of this stuff, incidently, cab be pulled right off an SV and slapped on. Motors are even interchangeable.
The only thing I would really worry about is the weld quality on the frame...but hell I'll ride K5/K6 GSXR's so living on the edge isn't new lol.
I've not dealt with the 250 but I can't see too much difference being between them...and the frame's solid...same as the GS.
I am also a new rider. I had the decision before me. I finally went with the gs500. I am 6'2, 190 lbs, and the bike was a better fit. It has been very stable for me, and easy to control. I have commuted to work from Baltimore to D.C., and it performs very well. I can imagine bikes with more power, but this bike has no problem at any legal (an 10mph over legal) speeds. I haven't made any changes, although the comments about the suspension are true. It is a bit squishy for me. I purchased a 2001 with 2,000 miles in perfect condition, no marks, clean, for 3200 out the door (this included tax, title, inspection, regitration) I could have gotten the same bike for less, but I didn't have any of the hassles of the DMV (not so great here in MD). Anyway, I am very happy with my choice. I am a very "driving miss daisy" rider. I get over 55mpg - and this has been with a lot of city riding.
When I bought my GS (Sept 06) I originally went in to buy the 250. Once there the dealer wasn't really moving on the sticker and so I became interested in the Ninja 500. They were able to move alot more on that. I had them down to $4200. Then as we talked and talked and talked (you get the point) the sales guy asked if it had to be a Kawasaki to which I replied no. He had an 06 GS on the floor with 200 miles on it. Someone bought it and traded it back in. I got him to extend the warranty another year and for $3100 I got a just slightly used NEW bike. So I would recommend shopping around if you have various dealers in your area.
Regards
Graham
Oh and BTW the best deal they were offering on an 06 Ninja 250 was $2850. So the GS at $3100 was really a no brainer. Besides aircooled is one less thing to worry about.
Regards
Graham
Quote from: gmingst on October 05, 2006, 06:57:18 AM
Besides aircooled is one less thing to worry about.
I worry about it alot here in Texas durring the summer.
I just made almost the exact same quandry a week ago. I went with a 98 GS500e that my bother in law had just finished fixing up. with only 4 days of riding under my belt, I feel like I've made a good choice. If the bikes I road during my Motorcycle Safety course were any indicaiton, the 250 wouldn't have liked pushing my 200lb frame around much.
I have a 20 minute highway commute, and it's fine for that. I also try to hit some country roads for lunch, and they've been a ton of fun. A great first bike IMO
Right, not one less thing to worry about if it's hot or not, just one less thing to worry about in complexity
Radiator
hoses
coolant
electric fan
relay (thermoswitch)
waterpump
etc..
You know, That type of one less thing to worry about..
Simplicity is one of the major reasons that I bought my GS. Like mentioned earlier, no radiator, coolant, pumps, fans, etc.
I was in the exact same situation when I bought my bike a few years ago. New Ninja 250 or 2 year old GS. I bought the GS and never regretted it. No Plastic, and feels more like a proper motorcycle. Odd thing was, the Ninja 250 felt more comfortable leg-wise than the Ninja 500. The GS felt best of all. You will definitely be happier for a lengthier amount of time with the GS. Good luck with whichever you decide on though.
I agree about the fit. The 250 is a better fit if you are taller.
plastics and liquid cooling = major $$$$ for repairs, asprin for those DIYers. In order to do anything you have to dissassemble the body, drain the coolant, take the hoses off, then get in to maintence. I own a Fizzer and HATE the fact it's water cooled. Spark plug changes became an afternoon event....
I ride in the city ALOT (ok like 80% of the time) and i'm always the one to hit all the lights red. Needless to say yes I experienced overheating on extremely hot days. with my 92' GS. It is very simple to drill a bracket to hold a 120mm cpu fan over the oil cooler/head fins. I am conveniced that the GS will not overheat (no matter what conditions) as long as you are moving at a 25mph pace. It's the ideling in traffic that burns it up. AKA-you'll have the change the oil more often.
If I had to do it all over again I would not hesitate on a Ninja 500, nor would I hesitate on a GS500. I'd buy whatever bike I could work out a deal on. :cheers: ........IMHO the ninja250 is for those bikers that don't know what a clutch is, are height deprived, or have the mentatility that a big Ninja sticker is cool
Okay.. I went to the dealership, and looked at both bikes. I talked to the salesman and he said he'd give me the GS for 3100 otd, so, just waiting on the banks now!
It may be a bit late, but honestly, go with whichever bike is more comfortable to sit on. The GS is better for highway driving and two-up, but the Ninja is lighter. That's about all the difference you will actually notice between the two. Both are very fun bikes.
You would be crazy to go with the 250. Even the GS with K&N, Rejet, and Vance & Hines is not very powerful. I spend a good deal of time with the throttle most or all the way open.
Wife had a 250 and with a 16tooth front sprocket it did 65 easy at around 7000 rpm took 10 minutes to change the sprocket. Would get up to 90-94 before there wasn't enough HP. It wasn't even working hard with me on it. Only mod was pod filters and a little better jetting config. Also did a valve adjustment. I weigh 200 lbs and it ran me around no problem. Put the ninja 500 shock on the back and progressive springs in the front of the ninja and it flew through corners with ease. the 500 is like that but stronger engine and chassis and less maintenance. Both = you will want to up the suspension from stock. Gearing changes are easy and cheap if you only have to change the front sprocket. Ride either for a year or 2 and sell it for almost what you have in it. I sold her 250 and made $400 profit on it after 2 years. You need to get the one you feel comfy on. The ninja you can't change the handlebars on very easy. They are proprietary mounts. The GS you just get a different height bar and you are ready.
Quote from: RVertigo on October 04, 2006, 08:36:34 PM
And if it's Yellow... That's worth at least another $500... Well, at least to me. :laugh:
It is yellow. I'm really nervous about buying a bike now! It's like, I've always wanted one and now that I'm in the process of getting one.. my feet are getting cold :icon_confused:
cold feet last about 2 minutes into the first ride.
Well, any tips?? I should know how soon I am getting the bike tomorrow.
I have read all the riding FAQs, but those are generic, are there any GS specific things I need to know??
ummm...the GS FAQ's are generic because the bike's generic. It's simplistic, 30 year old tech. If it runs, it's probably golden.
What I meant was, how to master these 100000000 functions on the bike easily... my understanding is this:
Left hand: Clutch, turn signals & horn
Right hand: Front Brake & accelator
Left foot: Transmission shifts
Right foot: rear brake..
Anything I'm missing?
Quote from: rowingdude on October 05, 2006, 10:38:00 PM
What I meant was, how to master these 100000000 functions on the bike easily... my understanding is this:
Left hand: Clutch, turn signals & horn
Right hand: Front Brake & accelator
Left foot: Transmission shifts
Right foot: rear brake..
Anything I'm missing?
Other than that stuff, the choke is on your left handlebar, the killswitch is on your right handlebar, and the petcock is on the left side of the bike. The petcock controls whether you are running from your main fuel line or the reserve line. Since the GS doesn't have a gas light, when you are low on gas and feel the engine cutting out, you need to switch the petcock to reserve to get to the reserve portion of your gas tank. Practice reaching for this and switching to reserve until you can do it without looking.
Take the bike to an empty lot and work on anything you feel uncomfortable with. If you haven't already, take the MSF course.
Quote from: rowingdude on October 05, 2006, 10:38:00 PM
What I meant was, how to master these 100000000 functions on the bike easily... my understanding is this:
Left hand: Clutch, turn signals & horn
Right hand: Front Brake & accelator
Left foot: Transmission shifts
Right foot: rear brake..
Anything I'm missing?
aslo take a MSF course, you'll appreciate it. Im from NY but live in Philly, PA and the course is free, yes free hahahaha. But i started yesterday and im taking it to get my license and learn afew things and be a safer rider. I know how to ride and all but trust me the course is priceless.
Quote from: rowingdude on October 04, 2006, 07:40:58 PM
Questions:
a. Can the GS500F be geared differently, for example .. lower "cruising gears".. perhaps a lower final drive?
b. Are the 50-70mpg fuel guesstimates reliable? What sort of economy do you folks see? Will modding (exhaust, jetting, ingition timing, etc) adversely effect my fuel economy?
c. Is the GS500F on average a fun bike (for those boring nights)
d. How does the bike feel at speed? One of the biggest turn offs about the 250 is that it DIES after 80mph (highway cruise speed).
e. Where does the passenger rest their feet?
and finally..
f. The cost of the GS will be about 2700-3500, is it overall a better buy for a FIRST TIME motorcyclist than a $3000 ninja 250R?
The GS would probably be better suited to a passenger.
+1 on what people said about the ex250 possibly being underpowered unless you do primarily in town riding.
b) I did a long highway stint just the other day, wound up being around 170 miles and a filled up and it worked out to over 65 mpg. Averaging around 75-80 on the freeeway.
d) bike is very comfratable where I cruise around 80 mph and most important (to me) still has power to scoot up to 90 to get around people, etc.
If you are just starting out I would STRONGLY suggest doing the MSF. It will give you 6-8 month head start on learning. Those 6-8 months can be a very painfull learning curve if you don't know what you're doing.
Beyond all of it please get full gear. I have to say it, I've seen a lot of friends learn that the hard way, and one that didn't get a chance to learn from his mistakes.
So, did you get the bike? I have just passed my test. I am taking a safety course next month. My suggestion is a lot of parking lot practice. I have a lot just down the street. It is big, hilly, and half empty. Good for practicing starts, stops, slow turns. My limited experience has been that these are the toughest things at the beginning. Particularly slow turns. My biggest learning experience was when I realized I was tense and putting too much weight on my hands. I loosened up, grabbed the bike with my legs, and everything was 100% easier. Good luck man.
Quote from: wildbill on October 05, 2006, 11:20:09 PMtake an MSF course
++ MSF MSF MSF MSF MSF MSF MSF MSF MSF MSF MSF!!!!!
Oh yeah... MSF!!!
Quote from: rowingdude on October 05, 2006, 09:58:52 PM
Quote from: RVertigo on October 04, 2006, 08:36:34 PM
And if it's Yellow... That's worth at least another $500... Well, at least to me. :laugh:
It is yellow. I'm really nervous about buying a bike now! It's like, I've always wanted one and now that I'm in the process of getting one.. my feet are getting cold :icon_confused:
Ya gotta love a yellow bike. Sigh.
But the right answer is buy the bike that fits your needs. I fit better on the GS500 than any of its competitors (6'4", 36" inseam, 225 lbs) and still love my Metalic Abyss Blue 2001, but it would be even better if it was yellow. :)
Quote from: RedShift on October 07, 2006, 03:29:57 PMstill love my Metalic Abyss Blue 2001, but it would be even better if it was yellow. :)
++ on both. :icon_mrgreen: