Hi all!
I've been riding my GS for about a year and the information from this community is very valuable. Reading the board almost everyday becomes my habit and it solved many of my beginner questions. Thanks everyone! :kiss3: Since the board members values safety as a high priority, I think this is the right place to ask this question.
After I got my GS last year, I began to ride it in my local blocks to practice. At that time, I was living an hour away from campus, so I took my car to school and rode GS at night just for fun. A couple of months ago, I moved much closer to campus. Now I ride to campus almost everyday (about 15 miles one way). Since I wear my riding gear (helmet, leather jacket, boots, gloves...) every time I ride, there are quite a few people ask me about motorcycle stuff. :icon_twisted:
But there is a particular guy that are really interested in getting the license and a bike to commute. So I recommend him to go to MSF to get his license and then get a 250 or 500 to start on, but he insists that a 250 or 500 is too slow for him and plan to get a liter bike for his first one. :o I think this is a really bad idea, especially he hasn't been on any bike before. I already mentioned to him that I ride my GS almost everyday now and it's more than enough for traffic even if it's "only" a 500. I even suggest him to get an SV650 if he wants more power, but he seems to be locked on a liter supersport. Hope he'll change his mind after attending MSF.
Do you have a similar experience? How do you convince your friends to get a less aggressive bike as their first?
Simon
show him crash pictures that are on the board here!!!!!!!
Ask him what he wants on his tombstone.
Be serious about it.
If he does get a liter bike, force him to get a helmet, gloves, and a jacket (Minimum) and to wear it everytime he rides.
Some people can't be talked out of it, and because of that, you just let them waste their good hard earned money.
There isn't much more you can do about it.
If it's a friend:
tell him you don't want him to look like a poser with a nice-ass bike who will have no skills and get laughed at by people with slower bikes that know how to ride better.
if he's really that good to need a liter bike, why isn't he a professional racer?
Also remind him that you don't want him to die.
(this worked on my friend)
if it's not a friend:
(like this moron I met at the mall: who said he's always wanted one, and he only plans to buy one, so he's going to get a cbr600rr as his first bike)
tell him "hope you have life insurance for your family when you kill yourself" and walk away.
these types of people aren't really asking for suggestions, they're bragging that they plan to buy a literbike as they've alreayd made up their minds.
I once read a guide for buying your first bike that said:
"Buying a 600cc bike as your first motorcycle is like sending a two-year-old out to play on the freeway--often with the same results."
Chilly
If he wants a liter-bike, you probably won't be able to help him. Sway him towards the gentler end of the liters like the SV1000 and VTR1000(which may sound like my usual plug for twins, but they've got a bigger learning curve than a K6 GSXR). The best thing you can do for him, as a friend, is to be as best a teacher as possible to him. Take him to the dealer and show him the new bikes and tell him their specs and what they can do. Try and tell him that he'll be a better rider if he starts out propperly, and that the learning curve for the bigger bikes is far too sharp to allow for many mistakes.
Don't tell him he'll hurt himself...using that as a deterant is as effective at saving noobs as using ketchup to clean carpet stains.
You already told him to start on something small, not too much else that you can do. People are stubborn and stupid.
One tact might be to tell him that he'll probally drop his first bike a few times and if he has a brand new $10,000+ sportbike, he'll just be wasting his money. Remind him that a cheaper, already been dropped 500-650 will be cheaper and won't depreciate as much as a brand new bike. Then once he drops it a few times hopefully he'll realize that a tom more power isn't needed. Or at least he'll have learned a little first.
Good point Nolan,
That was the reason why I bought a cheaper, already-crashed GS500 as opposed to a new cruiser style bike. In a way, having a "junker" has been pretty liberating. I'm not afraid of tearing into it (especially since there's no new bike warrentee to invalidate) and trying to fix things myself. On a newer, more expensive bike, I probably would be too nervous to try much at all. Plus, I've already dropped my GS--not a heartbreaker. If I dropped a brand new bike, I'd be much more bummed out.
Chilly
Tell him to come ride in the mountains with me. When I smoke him on my GS in the twisties, he'll realize that it's not the bike, it's the rider.
I feel like a lot of beginners get this idea that they have to have a bigger bike from magazines/reveiws etc. They say things like "this bike certainly doesn't overdo it in the power department, with only 63 horsepower at the rear wheel!" Or "A person with more weight or that wishes to ride two up should opt for the larger liter variant"
When I was looking for a beginner bike, I was seriously worried that a 500 would not haul my 230 lbs around, that it would be seriously slow, etc. Because that is the image you get from reading cycle magazines. I found a good deal on a GS, and bought it, thinking that I would outgrow it quickly and upgrade. And then I rode it. Come to find out, it is really fast. Seriously. Sure, it isn't a liter bike, but it is not slow! I know he will find this hard to accept, as I did, since the GS's specs especially in the HP department look puny compared to other bikes the mags are calling "slow" and "gutless". But on the GS, you can crank the throttle, it GOES. If you do that with a liter bike, chances are the bike will go, and you will be sitting on your ass watching it go.
I just feel that bike mags present the wrong picture for noobs. Especially when they say things like "this bike will not be able to keep up with your friends 750" or some dumb thing like that. What, is your friend doing 140 with his 750? Don't be stupid. Even the most humble motorcycle accelerates like a sports car or better.
So my advice: Tell him to stop reading cycle mags and start reading on this forum. :thumb:
Thanks everyone for the great comments! Maybe I'm just a paranoid, I have no problem telling myself to get a smaller bike in the first place. :laugh: I have a feeling that this guy has the mental image that every bikers are going for the speed and racing every red lights. He probably get the ideas from motorcycle magazines reviews (like Sicarii pointed out) or the ghostrider videos in youtube. I tried to tell him that there are bikers like the ones in this forum that respects traffic laws and still enjoy the fun of motorcycling. I told him about the advantage of having a naked and less powerful bike as the first bike, pointed him to this forum, and suggested him to take MSF class. Not sure if he listens, but I've done what I can do right now. :dunno_white:
We work on research projects together (I'm a graduate student). But I just don't want to see another bike accidents, no matter if the victims are my friends or someone that I don't know. All fellow bikers are like my family members. :) I will definitely guide him to ride responsibly once he gets a bike (although I'm still a beginner myself, I guess I can share my beginner experience with him).
Anyways, ride safe everyone and thanks for the comments!
Simon
When I started looking for my first streetbike I was originally looking at a CBR600, until my uncle told me about his crash on a sportbike and showed me pictures. After that I realized that it is extremely important to start out on the right bike. :thumb: Try to find someone who has crashed on a 600 supersport and get them to talk to him.
Quote from: simonyau on October 17, 2006, 01:49:41 PM
I tried to tell him that there are bikers like the ones in this forum that respects traffic laws and still enjoy the fun of motorcycling. I told him about the advantage of having a naked and less powerful bike as the first bike, pointed him to this forum, and suggested him to take MSF class. Not sure if he listens, but I've done what I can do right now. :dunno_white: Simon
Sounds as though you did the best you could (and a good job of it at that!). Hopefully he listens....if not, you've done what you could.... I hope he listens... :thumb:
Sugest that he check out some of the sportbike forums for tips. I'm sure there is one for R1s and all the others, have him ask their advice. I'm sure that most (but not all) of the riders will say the same thing we do, start small and work your way up. It would probally help hearing it from the guys who actually ride the extreme bikes rather than 'a buch of wuses who ride 500s' :laugh: seriously though. Once almost everyone who rides tries to talk him out of it, he may listen. If not :dunno_white: whatever people have the right to kill themselves if they want.
He's a grown man, let him do what he wants. Offer advice to him, but don't try and bully him into getting a smaller bike. If he wants to waste his money on a bike that will take him a long time to learn to ride, let him do it. I went through this with a friend of mine. He is a numbskull that wont listen to reason. He thinks a 07 R6 would be a great first bike because "It's only a 600!" Smart folks get into biking the right way. We keep an open mind, take the MSF, learn about safety gear, shop the bike market for new and used, then pick a bike. I will offer advice on first bikes, but I won't preach to anybody that doesn't listen. If my friend, strangers on the interenet, and a salesman at the dealer all told me that an R6 isn't a beginner bike, I would listen, but there are some rock skulled idots out there like my friend that think they know better. Everytime you thumb that starter your life is in your hands. People don't have the foggiest clue as to how dangerous and enjoyable riding can be. I've learned that most folks that think they need a big bad ass first bike have underlying esteem issues and probably need to work on themselves rather than ride a bike. Let him live and learn, and hopefully he wont end up another statistic.
your friend can die in the tub, on a 50 or a 1k of from the hands of a crack whore.....his money
just make sure he doesn't wear a helmut.....world needs more organ donors
yes the US needs a learner program...size limits/HP limits....but it ain't gunna happen
some senators son will want a busa and will get one
If your friend is only planning on gettting one bike, and is planning on getting a liter bike as that one bike, then the chances are he will be right... dead right! That liter bike will probably turn out to be his first and last bike.
In your place, I'd visit a florists, purchase a wreath and have it delivered to him with the message, "I'm getting this out of the way now because I don't want to waste good riding time by attending your funeral".
He may get the message, but probably won't.
my biggest question is this: what point of reference is he using to say the 500 isnt powerful enough? he's never ridden so how can he possibly know how much is too much?
Let him get the liter bike and come play with me and Pablo on the track.
He will cry.
(Pablo will be doing most of the making cry though, cause he's faster than me (probably, we haven't tested this theory yet, but I think he is) but me lapping him on a "500" will certainly make him go ZOMFG!)
You could also tell your friend to take a look at this thread :)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/pantablo/Avatar-BW.jpg)
You know upon further consideration I'm going to say that yeah, Pablo would probably kill me if this is his consistent cornering.
But I'd be damned if he'd walk away with it. (Until that CBR went ARARRARARARARARARARR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! BRARARARAARARARRARARAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Down the back straight, as if he needed that extra edge on a track noob like me.)
have him sign up for a superbike school on a loaned bike, that should show him which bike he needs to get, he/she likely has an itch for speed and doesn't quite understand what he/she is getting into,
I take dings on my license on my slow ass GS. When I rode around on a GSXR750 and twisted the throttle, I felt like I needed to be behind bars (with the laws around here).
With a 600 SS I would probably be shot on sight for the shaZam! I'd do....
Quote from: CirclesCenter on October 17, 2006, 11:15:43 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/pantablo/Avatar-BW.jpg)
You know upon further consideration I'm going to say that yeah, Pablo would probably kill me if this is his consistent cornering.
http://media.putfile.com/powerpantablo_small
same turn in reverse. in particular look at my pass at 6:45. camera bike is an R1.
that IS my consistent cornering, regardless of speed, although that pic shows me at about 105mph...mmmm....same as yesterday....
GL with your friend, most people that have made up their mind already, won't be swayed. BTW is he looking at new 06 / 07 1k's or older ones? I'm just curious.
Best thing you can do make sure he takes an MSF course ( maybe he will listen to the instructors if they tell him he should get a smaller bike ), has the proper gear and wears them. ( I see people riding bikes with Arai's, shoie's, AGV's on the passanger seat instead of on their head :dunno_white:) Guess they don't want to scratch it or something.
Are there any dealers in your area that allow test rides? After he gets his license take him there and let him ride a few bikes.
Quote from: pantablo on October 17, 2006, 10:37:46 PM
my biggest question is this: what point of reference is he using to say the 500 isnt powerful enough? he's never ridden so how can he possibly know how much is too much?
Honestly, I don't know where he get this idea. My best guess is that when he goes to most motorcycle manufacturer's website, the 250s and 500s (if they offer them) are usually coined as "beginner's bike", especially in the sportbike department. So he may think getting a "beginner's bike" is just waste of money. I don't know, it's just my guess.
That's why I hope he'll get a better idea of the capabilities of motorcycles after taking MSF. I know the MSF bikes are mostly 125s and 250s, but at least he'll get a reference point of what a 125 or 250 can do.
Quote from: blue05twin on October 18, 2006, 09:38:23 AM
Are there any dealers in your area that allow test rides? After he gets his license take him there and let him ride a few bikes.
I don't know about test rides in this area, but I'll try to find out. It'll be great to be able to test ride if I'm going to get a newer bike later when I'm ready. :laugh:
Quote from: pantablo on October 18, 2006, 01:07:02 AM
Quote from: CirclesCenter on October 17, 2006, 11:15:43 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/pantablo/Avatar-BW.jpg)
You know upon further consideration I'm going to say that yeah, Pablo would probably kill me if this is his consistent cornering.
http://media.putfile.com/powerpantablo_small
same turn in reverse. in particular look at my pass at 6:45. camera bike is an R1.
that IS my consistent cornering, regardless of speed, although that pic shows me at about 105mph...mmmm....same as yesterday....
thats cool can't keep up to you :thumb:
he was keeping up...he'd have been doing better if he'd been working his brakes and gas a little better.
Pablo how long's this guy been tracking the R1? There was spot or two he was actually coasting along...
Liter bike, definetly ... O0
Any thing like a Virago 1100, shadow 1100 its all good. I recomend those a lot ... :thumb: ...
750 CC to over 1 liter minimum ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Take him to the dealer and talk with the sales rep. The interesting thing is, they are often pretty savvy. The guys I talked to said "start small" and "you can always move up next season" The brilliant thing is that they are thinking of two sales. Every shop I went into said the same thing. Who knows.
Bob
p.s. If I started on a liter bike, I'd be dead today
i didn't read all this but it can be hard to convince anyone to do something if they have already decided that they want to do one thing. I tried to get my friend to not get a daytona 675 as his first bike but the normal replies of i don't want to have to get another bike later when i out grow it or why by two bikes when i can just be careful on this bigger better bike. Just show him what can happen, explain that it is hard enough to watch for others making mistakes and that it would be better for him to learn on a bike that won't rape him the first time he panics and grabs a lot of brake or a lot of gas. in the end if none of that works be supportive and kick him somewhere that hurts real bad if they start doing something retarded. Above all if he does get the wrong beginner bike go gear shopping and tell him what he needs. I did that with my friend and he listened, cause he will go down at some point no matter what bike he gets and having that right protection is a good thing. If he says, but it will be hot and uncompfy then gently remind him that the rash he will have if he doesn't were it will be a lot more uncompfy than wearing all out winter gear on a 110 degree summer day. and MSF course - take it and offer to do it with him if you have the money, that has worked for me many times and i have taken the course 5 times now. good luck man :thumb:
Quote from: makenzie71 on October 18, 2006, 12:52:39 PM
Pablo how long's this guy been tracking the R1? There was spot or two he was actually coasting along...
he's done quite a few trackdays but it was his first time at
this track, only my 3rd in the reverse configuration here, but I'd been to this track
at least an additional 6+ times. I had the advantage of knowledge, he of horespower. He kicks my ass at California Speedway when we go though (next up-Nov 25th).
Even if we had equal knowledge of the track a liter doesnt really have a big advantage unless there are one or more long straights where the HP differential becomes an issue. I can hold lots of corner speed-look again at the video and see the gap between us open up as I exit the corners. Its because I'm not braking as much as him. Liters are Point-and-shoot where the 600's are more about corner speed. This track has enough tighter sections that I can make up distance lost on the front straight. Not so at Cal Speedway where there are 2 long straights separated by only a few tighter turns. Streets of willow is another tight track where the liters dont have any advantage.
Quote from: pantablo on October 18, 2006, 01:07:02 AM
Quote from: CirclesCenter on October 17, 2006, 11:15:43 PM
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v505/pantablo/Avatar-BW.jpg)
You know upon further consideration I'm going to say that yeah, Pablo would probably kill me if this is his consistent cornering.
http://media.putfile.com/powerpantablo_small
same turn in reverse. in particular look at my pass at 6:45. camera bike is an R1.
that IS my consistent cornering, regardless of speed, although that pic shows me at about 105mph...mmmm....same as yesterday....
2 things:
1) Did you stick your leg out at him as he passed at about 1:35? Looks like you were trying to trip him. Rascal.
2) His speedo read 0, but it looks like he's going at least 20 mph.
1) haha, I think thats just a sunlight reflection off his red bodywork...dont think I wouldnt though...mwuahahaha
2) he doesnt want to know his speed so he disconnects his speedohealer which zero's out his speedo without disabling the rest of the instrument panel. I prefer to see mine...
Quote from: pantablo on October 18, 2006, 04:48:44 PM
Even if we had equal knowledge of the track a liter doesnt really have a big advantage unless there are one or more long straights where the HP differential becomes an issue. I can hold lots of corner speed-look again at the video and see the gap between us open up as I exit the corners. Its because I'm not braking as much as him. Liters are Point-and-shoot where the 600's are more about corner speed. This track has enough tighter sections that I can make up distance lost on the front straight. Not so at Cal Speedway where there are 2 long straights separated by only a few tighter turns. Streets of willow is another tight track where the liters dont have any advantage.
Nah if he had good knowledge of the track he could have been right on top of you the whole way...the only R1 that was a real dog were the Gen 1 models but they can be tossed around, too. Also remember that liters aren't all the same...I've seen SP2's walk 600's all day (high class riders on all). Seen a few TLR riders do it, too, but that's a bit harder to find (it's hard to find the propper combination of TLR + rider who can handle the pig).
But yeah I wasn't really trying to compare the bikes...he just looked really inexperienced or unfamiliar. He spent a lot of time not even carrying the bike up to the curves...just cut the throttle and coasted. First time plotting the track explains it, though...eveyrone looks like a noob if they don't know where they're going.
Quote from: makenzie71 on October 18, 2006, 06:46:30 PM
Nah if he had good knowledge of the track he could have been right on top of you the whole way...
I agree with you...mostly. On a tight track where the liters dont get a chance to open up the 600 can, with some serious work. keep pace well. Dont get me wrong-I break a serious sweat keeping up with the liter bikes...but its worth it.
Oh I wasn't saying the 600's were outclassed...on a tachnical course I'd rather be on a 600 or a big twin as opposed to anything else...mostly the twin for the slight power edge. I've ridden a few ZX6RR's and CBR600RR's, as well as an old CBR1000 and an '03 R1 and I got tired of having to wrestle the bike in comparison to the 600's. It takes a rider in amazing physical condition to maintane pace with a good rider on a 600 if the straights aren't favorable. This is one of the reasons I became so fond of the twins.
:icon_twisted: twin + full exhaust + no jug/block gasket + .75mm headgasket + TLR compression + TLR head + remap + mags all that other go fast stuff = here I go again with the twin bullshit :mad: :icon_twisted:
next time he says he wants a liter, scream and point to the sky "look! and eagle!" and while he's looking, kick him really hard on the crutch, and then tell him "that's nothing compared to road rash... get a 250"
or something like that.
HAHAHAHHA... were you referencing that old salmon commercial?
Quote from: calamari on October 19, 2006, 12:30:30 AM
next time he says he wants a liter, scream and point to the sky "look! and eagle!" and while he's looking, kick him really hard on the crutch, and then tell him "that's nothing compared to road rash... get a 250"
or something like that.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
and I thought what I said was being mean... :cheers:
Here's something for him to read... (http://www.southbayriders.com/forums/showthread.php?t=34162)
:cry: