I was on the GSXR forum and there was a topic about trail braking...then somebody said this...
"In our world of riding, we use - or at least are told - we should only use the front brake. In their world (AMA, WSBK, MotoGP) they use front and rear effectively. It is a different level, and it is a different world. If you ever get a chance to watch local club racers, go to a WERA or CCS race and watch Jeff Wood, Eric Wood, Robert Jensen, Troy Batey, Ben Thompson, etc... go around a track on a hot lap. It is mind boggling how they keep the motorcycle under them."
Then I said this "I was told to always use both front and rear brakes and I do."
and then he said this "How long have you been racing or doing trackdays Kevin??"
I was taught in MSF to use front and rear all the time. I don't really see a problem with using the rear. It's there for a reason....isn't it?
I use the front mainly...I trail when I have a rear brake. I currently dont.
I believe he was talking about normal braking when he said this
I became learned on a bike and was told by everyone that has been riding for a long time to use both brakes. In certain situations this isn't the case but for the most part both brakes applied at the same time is better than one or the other applied by themselves.
This is very true, in that, the rear brake settles the chassis - it squats the rear, so that when you get on the front brake the front end dive is not as severe, and doesn't throw all your body weight foreward onto the handlebars, which is bad, because then you can't steer.
Trail braking refers to braking into the corner often to the apex rather than completing braking before the turn. It can be front, rear, or both brakes. Term originated with auto performance driving and generally applied to using all brakes.
Use all three of your brakes all the time, front, rear, and engine, but not necessarily all at once all the time. I like the rear brake for moderate trail braking and all three for heavy deep trail braking.
When racers tell you to use the front only, they are referring to their high performance bikes with much, much stronger front brakes than our GS's have. Their powerful fronts unload the rear wheel much more and much quicker than our front brake does.
With my 240-250# perched on top of the rear wheel and with HH pads front and rear, my rear brake is much more effective than those on high performance bikes. It's almost like having twin front discs. :thumb:
I got 100k miles practice with the GS500 rear brake before putting HH pads on trhe rear. :)
Quote from: scratch on October 18, 2006, 01:06:53 PM
This is very true, in that, the rear brake settles the chassis - it squats the rear, so that when you get on the front brake the front end dive is not as severe, and doesn't throw all your body weight foreward onto the handlebars, which is bad, because then you can't steer.
+1 Rear braking in a turn settles the suspension much the same as applying throttle does. Doesn't stand it up the way front brake does. Most effective in braking a bit after already into a corner a bit fast or coming around a blind corner too fast and finding something in your way. Much time can be lost from trying to maintain the pace while doing all your braking before the turn. Front and rear both required for heavy braking in a corner. Stand it up, hit the brakes, and pray.
Generally, I use engine braking first and then front to set up turns.
Generally, I use engine braking first, then front, and then front and rear to come to a complete stop.
Further explaination below:
If I am coming to a complete stop, I only use the rear brake at the very end. If I am out riding twisties and need to scrub off some speed for a curve, I only use the front. I can't imagine using the front AND rear for anything other than coming to a complete stop. Using the rear brake in any amount or any combination as I approach a turn or the apex of a turn seems freakin' crazy to me. But then again, I have twin front dics, like GSjack said. And I use the throttle (rather than the rear brake) to settle the chassis during a turn.
Quote from: scratch on October 18, 2006, 01:06:53 PM
This is very true, in that, the rear brake settles the chassis - it squats the rear, so that when you get on the front brake the front end dive is not as severe, and doesn't throw all your body weight foreward onto the handlebars, which is bad, because then you can't steer.
Yeah, you notice this when you are on a hill (stopped) and you have your foot on the rear brake with no front brake, then if you switch to front brake and no rear then the bike shifts it's weight.
Quote from: gsJack on October 18, 2006, 01:22:24 PM
Trail braking refers to braking into the corner often to the apex rather than completing braking before the turn. It can be front, rear, or both brakes. Term originated with auto performance driving and generally applied to using all brakes.
Use all three of your brakes all the time, front, rear, and engine, but not necessarily all at once all the time. I like the rear brake for moderate trail braking and all three for heavy deep trail braking.
When racers tell you to use the front only, they are referring to their high performance bikes with much, much stronger front brakes than our GS's have. Their powerful fronts unload the rear wheel much more and much quicker than our front brake does.
With my 240-250# perched on top of the rear wheel and with HH pads front and rear, my rear brake is much more effective than those on high performance bikes. It's almost like having twin front discs. :thumb:
I got 100k miles practice with the GS500 rear brake before putting HH pads on trhe rear. :)
I know what trail braking is....I didn't think he was refering to trail braking when he said this but maybe he was.
Quote from: Jake D on October 18, 2006, 01:45:06 PM
But then again, I have twin front dics, like GSjack said. And I use the throttle (rather than the rear brake) to settle the chassis during a turn.
It sure is nice to have dual fronts! I also do not brake in turns unless I absolutly have to. Just like in a car, slow in fast out is the way to go.
Yeah, as far as racing goes they only use front brakes( I am not sure about super-pro but most people in AMA)
the rear brakes are rarely used. And to be honest with you the front brake on the GS is plenty strong, its just the front end is so undersprung that is causes it to dive so bad. Every track day I have been to tells me to use only the front brake and use only the first two fingers.
Quote from: coll0412 on October 18, 2006, 03:07:27 PM
Yeah, as far as racing goes they only use front brakes( I am not sure about super-pro but most people in AMA)
the rear brakes are rarely used. And to be honest with you the front brake on the GS is plenty strong, its just the front end is so undersprung that is causes it to dive so bad. Every track day I have been to tells me to use only the front brake and use only the first two fingers.
Yeah, I only use my first 2 fingers even on the street, I can't match my revs when I downshift if I have 4 fingers on the throttle. Plus you don't need to pull the handle as hard with the dual brakes.
depends on what racer you talk to. some use the rear just before the front to get the back to drop and settle, as stated. This is in racing. I often do that too but mostly just the front brake combined with engine braking.
Okay, he replied and he was talking about on the track, and I thought he was talking about on the street oops