I was considering making some molds off of my tank and building one out of fiberglass and/or carbon fiber. I have a little bit of rust in my tank and I know that most people do as well. Also after reading all the posts about lining the tank I think that at best it's a pain in the ass and at worst it's a carb clogging nightmare. So I was thinking about building one out of fiberglass with the outer layer from carbon fiber. Fiberglass can't rust and can handle gas so it should be a permanent solution.
I think a clean tank goes for around $100 or so :dunno_white: and I was wondering if people would be interested in buying one for around $150. I hope to have a simple petcock (maybe two, one with a tube sticking up a couple inches and another at the bottom for reserve) to eliminate the vacuum one that many have trouble with. And probably a simple non locking gas cap included. I don't think it would be worth it to just make one for myself but if 3 or 4 people wanted one (if mine turns out well) it would be worth it and I'll probably start working on it, so let me know.
Oh yeah, I have a "99 so it would probably fit 89-01 :dunno_white:
Later :cheers:
Actually carbon fiber and fiberglass can't be trusted with gas alone...you'll still have to seal the inside. The biggest issues you'll have are molding in bolt mounts for your gas cap, petcock and a line for the vent. Then there's going to be heat/cold fatigue...both fiber and glass will deteriorate rather quickly. Don't expect more than 10 year life from them.
I wouldn't suggest molding the stock tank. Go get you some clay and slap on your tank and make it bigger. That's going to be what sells the piece...if it holds more gallons...not carbon fiber or "rust proof".
I was planning on using epoxy resin with the fiberglass and carbon fiber. Plenty of boats have fiberglass gas tanks without a problem, and my dad's airplane has fiberglass tanks with no problem and it's 11 years old. I don't think that the heat and cold fatigue would be a factor either, The Ultraviolet would be a problem though, and the unpainted tanks would deteriorate over time. I'll try to find a clear coat that has some UV blockers to delay the process as much as possible.
If you look at older bikes with carbon fiber, some of them (except for the low mileage garage queens) have fading carbon fiber. Not too much you can do about it except paint over it, but that's the price you pay for bling :laugh: If you keep the bike covered, it takes a while before it deteriorates.
Hey Ducatinolan,
Cool idea! If I had the cash, I would sign up. A friend of mine just bought a Triumph Speed Triple with a plastic tank. When I first heard he had a plastic tank, I thought it would look and feel cheap. I was wrong--it looks great! How difficult would it be to cast a plastic tank vs. fiberglass?
Chilly
Plastic molding isn't comparable. It requires a source of rellets, a large oven, and lots of time. Carbon composites are the way to go.
Doesn't carbon fiber shatter when hit in a small area? Similar to most of the dents people have in their tanks? I really like the idea, but it would suck if the bike went down and all of a sudden the gas tank shattered.
Maybe just overthinking ... I'd be interested .. especially if it was a touch bigger.
Good carbon fiber will need to have a substantial hit to shatter...as in something would have to hit it hard enough to collapse or puncture the stock tank.
But yeah, Nolan, I don't think people are going to invest in something like this if you make it a stock replacement. Make it bigger and you'll get a lot of customers.
I think you need a bunch of special stuff to do plastic, Usually it's injection molded at high temps I think. It's a little out of the realm of the do it yourselfer Fiberglass isn't very high tech, you make a mold out of something and lay it up by hand, no high temp stuff required just a lot of work making the molds.
I have built a kayak using stich and glue plywood/fiberglass/epoxy and it turned out well, but I haven't molded stuff before. I was thinking this would be a fun first project to try and if it turns out well, I may be able to sell a few to recover the costs.
yea I was kicking arount this idea also, I beleive they make a special epoxy resin just for making gas tanks...
I'd be interested... but I have an '02.. so no fit.. =(
What's the difference in the '02 and newer tanks? I'm sure that when casting a completely new tank it wouldn't be difficult to conjure up something that would fit both.
I was originally thinking that a stock shape and size replacement would have the most interest, but since it sounds like everyone wants more capacity, how do you guys want this done? taller, wider or just a little bigger everywhere? I only want to make one mold and I want the most interest possible.
Also how much bigger should it be? I could probally get another 1/2 gallon out of it without changing the look too much, but getting a gallon more in there would probally change the look considerably.
I think if you add an inch or two to the height it'll still blend okay and you'll get another gallon out of her. But before you start casting you'll have to get 10lbs of clay or so to slap on top of your stocker (or whatever you're using as a plug) and blend the increased capacity in.
No one would buy it if it were a stock replacement. Sourcing a another stock tank would be far cheaper. You'll have to add trickery to make it sell.
At 150 it will sell if it was stock replacement too ... why ...
Lets see, people crash and crap out tanks, and of course the crap pockets crap out tanks at nearly that magic 10% mark, and agreed its not the end of the tank, but the srinath charges $50+ to coat the inside and prolly another 50+ for powdercoating the putside in solid primary colors ... so you'd prolly sell a dozen every year, more if you whored it out on flea bay ...
I would want all of the stock functionality though ... like locking cap and the petcock (yea 2 tubes sticking out is OK).
Cool.
Srinath.
the older bikes have a smaller tank . the newer ones are a bit bigger i know i'v sat on a 97 and then my 05
I was also wondering about the 02 and up tanks and if I could make something that fit both. I think it's mostly different where it joins up with the seat. Don't the newer bikes have a different seat that kind of wraps arround the back of the tank? I'll have to look at some pictures to figure it out. I know of a guy arround here who has an 04 or 05 F model, do those have the same tanks as an 02 and up E model? Either way, I can probally find the guy and take some measurements swap seats etc to see if I can get something to work for both styles and looks good.
Nobody has said anything abpout the price. I need to look into what materials and supplies would run me but is $150 a decent price? If there's enough interest I'll try to make it work with the stock cas cap, which should keep prices down. Would most of you want it just out of fiberglass or with a carbon fiber layer?
I think about 1/2" to 1" added to the top and sides all arround, if done right would still look pretty stoch and should add significant capacity, I'll probally go that route.
:cheers:
He would have to have propper plates lazer cut to use the stock cap...and I can have a plate cut out to mount the stock petcock. Overflow can simply be molded into the tank with bit of copper tubing.
Nolan, let me know if you want the plates lazer cut, or if you have someplace that can do it I'll send you the plans.
$150 is NOT a decent price for a carbon fiber tank. If you budget 1 gallon of resin, enough material to do the tank, plus the propper plates to have the caps and petcocks bolt up you're looking at nearly $150 just in materials. If you were to make it out of polyester and fiberglass you could make money, but not out of epoxy and CF.
With a little deliberation I decided I'd do this for the TL crowd...since I have a TL tank handy I can use as a plug. MY estimate right now sits at $390 shipped to the states (for the TL tank, but the GS tank won't be much different).
24d
ok so what's the difference?
Can anyone here send Nolan a newer tank so he can make the necessary adjustments to suit each?
'01+ is slightly taller, I believe (hence the increased capacity) and shaped differently where it meets the seat. As for mounting points, I understand that they're the same.
Yeah, I was thinking that it may cost a bit more than that. I haven't priced materials yet. Maybee I'll use polyester resin, which will work just as well with the fiberglass, but I don't know about the carbon fiber. Either way, it shouldn't take a full gallon, but I'll see on my first one. I'm going to make my first one out of fiberglass to make sure it turns out okay, then I'll get some carbon fiber only if there's interest. I've also seen fiberglass that's dyed to look like carbon fiber and is way cheaper, could try that too.
Have you done this or much other fiberglass molding Mac? Where did you get those drawings for the gas cap ring? If I could get those from you it would make my job a bit easier. I don't think I'll need to have the stuff laser cut though, I haver a drill press and a bandsaw, that should do the job just fine.
As for the petcock, I don't think I'll have it take the stock one, I'll do something different that's easy to turn off by hand, so that people can either use it alone and run it straight to the carbs or use itr with the frame molunted automatic petcock.
In the next couple of days I should be able to check out an 05 model to see the possibility of one tank working and looking good on all models. I can see that there is definatly some interest! That should help bring the price down, I'll have to figure out a final price once I've built one and figure out what materials will cost, and how much labor will cost.
I doa lot of carbon fiber and fiberglass work. I've built fuel cells before, but it's always been on a private contract. I've only sold cosmetic c/f stuff, and heat shields, on a commercial level.
I would suggest having the fittings lazer-cut. They're be perfect and it'll only cost about $50, plus shipping, to do the gas tank ring and the two pieces for the petcock. All I really did was trace out the gas cap and bolt pattern. I'd have two rings cut to match the gas cap assembly, but carve one with the bolt holes a little bigger, thread the other. Then add three or four more bolt holes so that the tw templates can be sanwiched together, with the tank's material in between them. Then bolt the cap down.
Similar for the petcock...better for the petcock, even. Cut out two 2" X 4" pieces of 1/2" mild plate. Carve a 1" X 2" chunk out of one, and drill and tap the other for the stock petcock. Then add 6 holes for threading so that you can bolt these two together the same was as the cap...stock petcock bolts right up. I'll post up drawings here in a bit.
As for cost, no it shouldn't take an entire gallon for a project like this. I'd expect between half and three quarter to allow for all the material sauration and sealing with epoxy. The thing is that with this stuff it's hard to utilize left overs for other projects. You also have to take "accidents" into consideration. It'll almost be mandate to buy a new gallon for every customer and quality epoxy's are going to run you about $100 a gallon (shipped).
I would also suggest sticking with epoxy. Polyester WILL break down under fuel without lining and relining every so often. I use gasoline to clean my brushes and polyester guns.
Carbon fiber and fiberglass are pretty universal between polyester and epoxy. The difference is all in the material, and that's all in carbon being lighter and stronger. Fiberglass is cheaper, but, in my opinion, the price difference isn't that tremendous when the over all project is done.
Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on October 25, 2006, 01:43:28 PM
'01+ is slightly taller, I believe (hence the increased capacity) and shaped differently where it meets the seat. As for mounting points, I understand that they're the same.
01+ tanks are wider. Both are same height. 01+ does not have the front mounts for the side panels.
Correct about the shape where the seat fits, 01+ has a depression for the seat to fit in at the thigh area. The other year seat sorta can fit but not really. The 89-00 seat will fit better on the 01+ than the 01+ on the 89-00.
It has been a while since I mixed and matched the years.
Mak is correct... no friggin way you can do it for 150
if it is bigger....easier to damage in a light spill...destroy
YSR 50 fiberglass tanks go for 300 on e-bay as fast as they are listed....last time i looked
make one for yourself...... most people will not buy them
there is also the liability concern..... if the bike tips over next to someone who is smoking...explosion....you get sue'd as the manufacturer
Quotethere is also the liability concern..... if the bike tips over next to someone who is smoking...explosion....you get sue'd as the manufacturer
Not so. Any modification to the fuel tank or fuel cell, not done by a certified mechanic with parts not from the original manufacturer or an authorized source, are not approved for use on US roads. Nolan, as a manufacturer, bears no responsibillity, so long as he makes it clear that his tanks have not been approved for use by anyone other than himself.
Has anyone ever thought about using an older rusted out tank as a shell? Cut the bottom out and find a suitable plastic bladder to use underneath?
Average it's been though of...it serves no advantage save a rust-free enviroment.
[e3
Quote from: makenzie71 on October 25, 2006, 07:40:36 PM
Quotethere is also the liability concern..... if the bike tips over next to someone who is smoking...explosion....you get sue'd as the manufacturer
Not so. Any modification to the fuel tank or fuel cell, not done by a certified mechanic with parts not from the original manufacturer or an authorized source, are not approved for use on US roads. Nolan, as a manufacturer, bears no responsibillity, so long as he makes it clear that his tanks have not been approved for use by anyone other than himself.
Yeah like that would really hold up in court. If he sells one, then he knows it could be used by someone else so he is then liable. Wavers to not really mean anything.
Quote from: Wrecent_Wryder on October 26, 2006, 04:04:37 AM
Quote from: dgyver on October 25, 2006, 03:09:23 PM
The 89-00 seat will fit better on the 01+ than the 01+ on the 89-00.
Not to threadjack, but are you saying the earlier seat fits the later bikes, or are you just referring to the tank? I've seen the question of whether the pre-'01 Corbin seat could be made to fit the later bikes more than once, but I've never seen an answer.
Yes it can fit the tank...but it will look like crap.
Quote from: dgyver on October 26, 2006, 05:03:39 AM
Quote from: makenzie71 on October 25, 2006, 07:40:36 PM
Quotethere is also the liability concern..... if the bike tips over next to someone who is smoking...explosion....you get sue'd as the manufacturer
Not so. Any modification to the fuel tank or fuel cell, not done by a certified mechanic with parts not from the original manufacturer or an authorized source, are not approved for use on US roads. Nolan, as a manufacturer, bears no responsibillity, so long as he makes it clear that his tanks have not been approved for use by anyone other than himself.
Yeah like that would really hold up in court. If he sells one, then he knows it could be used by someone else so he is then liable. Wavers to not really mean anything.
"For Off Road Use Only". Use at own risk.
There, no need for DOT approval then, and that should take care of any pesky lawsuits.
^ditto. It doesn't even have to be printed ON the product...otherwise people like Pilot and Hella would be getting sued left and right. Nohere on my HElla 500's does it say "off road use only" but right there on the package it does.
My brother and I would definitely be interested in a 89-01 version of this tank. Especially at that 150 price tag...
Let me know if you decide to make them, we're already ready to order :thumb:
Quote from: makenzie71 on October 26, 2006, 02:10:51 AM
Average it's been though of...it serves no advantage save a rust-free enviroment.
Thats the point though, isn't it? :cookoo:
Well though I don't want to step on Nolan's toes, I can have something whipped up in pretty short order (the GS has such a nice tank for this stuff). There's a catch with me, though:
First, I can't do it for $150...you're looking at $300~350.
Second, I need a stock tank sent to me as core. +$40 if you don't have a stock tank.
~tank can be in any condition...dents, rust, whatever...I'll be casting the stock filler and petcock flanges into the new tanks
Now, I can make the a stock replacement tank from fiberglass for $175, but I still need the core.
Also, I can make the fiberglass tank, but wrap the outside in carbon, for about $225.
~~Also, the bladder idea has many flaws. The "rust free enviroment" is severely outweighed.
Are you still selling those slip ons too?
I sell a slip on flange and muffler, and the high-mount half-exhaust.
Where can I see a shot of the high mount half exhaust (preferably installed on a bike)? I only see the carbon fiber slipon on your site.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=31343.0
Yeah, I've gotten really busy these last few days and I don't know when I'll be able to start working on this project. If Mac wants to give it a shot, feel free (as long as you give me tips when I do mine)
I'll let everyone know how it goes when I finally get one done
:cheers: