ok for some reason I could have sworn someone had told me sometime or another not to run higher octane fuel in the GS higher than 87. I have no idea why this stuck in my head. so I am at the local bike shop talking to a racer who was ordering me all the parts for my gs rebuild and I asked him about running some fuel cleaner through the bike, and he goes why dont you just run high test gas because all the fuel cleaner does is boost the octane eh we went into more depth on what it actually does for you but he was like just run the hightest in your bike. and then i was like DUH why did I ever think I coudlnt he was like yea why did you haha and we got a good laugh. I could have sworn it was some kind of statement made on here somtime. am I right or am I crazy lol
Well, the GS really doesn't have the compression or timing to take advantage of high test, so I have seen people on many bike boards recomend not running anything other than 87 in it for economic reasons. I personally would use a cleaner designed for carbed engines and call it good.
There is no good reason to run high octane in the GS. None at all. It doesn't do anything to help it go faster. It doesn't burn cleaner. Octane is like a flame retardant. More flame + more air + more fuel = more power. I switched from high octane to the cheap stuff and my bike ran 10 times better.
I dont think that anyone here would have said to not use high octane. I have seen many posts about it and most just say you can but it doesnt make things any better :thumb:
well I wasnt exactly wanting to use it to go faster. I want to clean the fuel system and that higher octane works to help clean it because thats all that fuel system cleaner does anyways boost your octane.
I dont know where everyone gets the idea that anyone who wants to use a higher octane fuel would think it magicaly makes you go faster. there was a logical reason behind it. I have been learning a lot of nice tricks of the trade from the guys who race bikes at kens cycle here in VA they have a gs500 track bike too and love it.
well anyways Im pretty sure it was brought up in a debate before because not everything on the board is practical, logical or even true. I would say there are a select few on this board who I would beleive 100% of the time. and well they know who they are.
thanks for the post.
I'm certainly no expert on gas but higher octane only retards the combustibility of the gas so it won't detonate under the ideal conditions. I've heard people talk about running high octane racing gas in their vehicle like it's going to oxgenate the fuel as nitrous will. High test gas is supposed to be better at keeping an engine clean so I guess theoretically it could work as a fuel system cleaner. This would probably be due to additives rather than the actual octane level. As for myself, I'm a tightwad. The cheapest gas that burns is what goes in my tank.
Not that it matters (apparently), but I thought I'd weigh in:
Whether you believe it or not, that "burning cleaner" myth is just that: I have personally torn apart engines run on high octane, and, unless higher octane fuel is necessary, they rarely look better, often worse. Really, the only purpose of a higher octane fuel is to compensate for pinging, often caused by high compression or advanced timing. The GS has relatively low compression and timing shouldn't be advanced that far, so high octane fuel is really a waste. Extremely high octane (ie. race gas) can even leave extra deposits in your engine.
In conclusion, run the cheapest gas that doesn't ping, and you're golden.
well I still feel as if no one has honestly got what I was saying. I am not looking to run 93 octane fuel in my motorcycle on a daily basis, I am filling it up one time with the higher octane fuel to help flush out the system with the higher octane the fuel burns hotter and does the same exact thing a fuel cleaning additive does when you add it to a lower octane fuel. Instead of waisting my money on a tank of gas and a fuel additive I am filling up with a higher octane and saving myself a little bit. I am not saying that running a higher octane will keep your engine cleaner or it does anything for the motorcycle . but if everyone wants to argue even though Im agreeing with you then be my geust lol.
You're not listening to everyone else. You said you're using the higher octane gas to flush your system. Not really. It mixes with the 87 and gives you (87+h)/2 where h is the octane of the gas you're using.
It will NOT do the same thing that adding a fuel additive does to lower octane fuel. Seafoam, for example, is a great fuel additive for carbed or FI engines. It is NOT simply an octane booster, it actually cleans carbon deposits from the engine. You can not argue that 93+ octane gas is the equivalent of a can of Seafoam. It just doesn't make sense. It'll get you laughed at.
Quote from: Susuki_Jah on December 30, 2006, 04:28:09 PM
I am not saying that running a higher octane will keep your engine cleaner or it does anything for the motorcycle .
Oh no? Then what are you saying?
Oh, I think you're saying this:
Quote from: Susuki_Jah on December 30, 2006, 01:51:40 PM
well I wasnt exactly wanting to use it to go faster. I want to clean the fuel system and that higher octane works to help clean it because thats all that fuel system cleaner does anyways boost your octane.
Contradictory, no?
well Im going to stick with the opinion of the guys who own and built there own race bikes and who own the shop here in Richmond and are licensed racers and mechanics for these motorcycles. and on top of it run gs500's . but all of these arguments I was not arguing. I am not running 93 octane in my motorcycle on a regular basis. I never said I was going to nor do I wish to. and I am no oblivious to why you run or why you dont run higher or lower octanes the principles are the same in cars and trucks.
I mean damn some people can just run this crap into the ground.
I got all of your opinions now close the thread.
Quote from: scottpA_GS on December 30, 2006, 01:41:44 PM
I dont think that anyone here would have said to not use high octane. I have seen many posts about it and most just say you can but it doesnt make things any better :thumb:
+1
Quote from: Susuki_Jah on December 30, 2006, 11:25:36 AM
because all the fuel cleaner does is boost the octane eh
You either mis-interpreted what he said to you or he doesn't know what he's talking about. Some brands of premium gas add detergents, solvents or stabilizing additives to the mixture to, for the most part, justify the higher price. These additives are not related to the octane level although they can influence it.
Running a single tank of premium through the engine will not have any measurable benefit. It certainly won't "flush it out". The additives make up such a small percentage by volume that even over time it's all but impossible to tell any difference. It's debatable whether a can of Seafoam, for example, does any good either.
The best way to keep the engine and fuel system clean is to use fresh, high quality gas with the correct octane level and to keep the air/fuel mixture in proper tune. If you're that worried about carbon deposits you can just clean and rebuild the top end every 50k miles.
well I think we were more or less talking about a more specific type of cleaner that they had there and in all honestly thats probly what we were soley having conversation about at the shop. I have used things like seafoam and other products in vehicles before never really noticed any benifit from them either even when I did pull apart the engines I didnt see any difference in the ones I used it with and didnt use it with.
I think to save my self the hassle of using any of the crap Ill just rebuild the whol damn bike.
for the record I agree that the high octane fuel wont make my life any better. I think im still going to give it a go around though, never have run the bike with it yet.
Josh...you continue to prove your intelligence again and again...
Quote from: Onlypastrana199 on December 30, 2006, 08:39:16 PM
Josh...you continue to prove your intelligence again and again...
Seriously JAH, you asked a simple question, had the answers within two posts, then proceded to ignore everything and tell us how much smarter your friends are. I suggest you ask them these questions, because every time you reply here (and over at Turbobricks too for that matter) you come off as a troll.
After reading these posts I think I will stop buying premium gas. Although I feel so good putting the stuff in, thinking it's the best that money can buy, helps keep the engine clean, makes it go faster, extends its life, makes it sound better, etc. etc.
Now I will start saving 30 cents a gallon or whatever the difference is.
If the objective is to have some cleaning affect on the fuel system, talk to a senior tech in your local bike shop about what cleaning additive he recommends. I'd post what I use, but I don' like getting flamed for being a troll, hobbitt, mutant or whatever those who use forums as lame advertisements are called. :thumb:
Quote from: aplitz on December 31, 2006, 12:11:56 AM
Quote from: Onlypastrana199 on December 30, 2006, 08:39:16 PM
Josh...you continue to prove your intelligence again and again...
Seriously JAH, you asked a simple question, had the answers within two posts, then proceded to ignore everything and tell us how much smarter your friends are. I suggest you ask them these questions, because every time you reply here (and over at Turbobricks too for that matter) you come off as a troll.
sorry charlie I dont post at tbricks and havent in a long time there is no point considering I wouldnt get any help from a lot of those guys anyways , usually a bunch of liberals with the wrong idea on life anyways.
But I dont see the need for the post you made. its one thing arguing a point its another posting what you posted, but sense you want some gradification it seems here you go , because I know this is what you are feeling inside:
"im so cool I must have gotten the first dis post in YES"
HAHAHAHAHAHA... there's a forum for volvos called turbobricks?
Aside from the first two posts (one semi-legit question, one answer) in this thread, that's the only post worth reading!
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA
Man, that's good..
Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on December 31, 2006, 06:16:30 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHA... there's a forum for volvos called turbobricks?
Aside from the first two posts (one semi-legit question, one answer) in this thread, that's the only post worth reading!
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA
Man, that's good..
lol it is pretty funny, there are some really good people there though. others not so much
Quote from: Susuki_Jah on December 31, 2006, 06:24:14 AM
Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on December 31, 2006, 06:16:30 AM
HAHAHAHAHAHA... there's a forum for volvos called turbobricks?
Aside from the first two posts (one semi-legit question, one answer) in this thread, that's the only post worth reading!
HAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHA
Man, that's good..
lol it is pretty funny, there are some really good people there though. others not so much
Haha, I know nothing of the people.. but the fact that they call it turbobricks bout made me fall out of my chair!
Ok so back on subject. I did some digging again to why the rep at the store would tell me just to run the higher octane fuel in my bike and why it would give me the same effect as many cleaning agents you can buy on the shelf. So I did some asking around and some snooping on other bike forums. It seems that the higher ocatne fuels have cleaning additives in them much like you find on the shelf. and that is why i was told to use the higher octane fuel instead of buying the cleaner. Makes sence!
You know I wonder why I have stored my bike in the past and never had a problem but that was before the ethanol in the fuels , maybe the new gas with the 10% ethanol is not mixing well with the stabalizer. who knows.
Gas with ethanol does not mix well...whether it be with mixing oil or stabilizer...it will eventually settle out. The shell station has more ethanol than other stations around me so I won't get gas there if its for my two stroke or for storage. At school I had no choice..I had to pick up and shake my fiddy to remix the gas in the tank or completely drain it each time I wanted to use it.
Just to reiterate..you're still missing the point. While higher octane fuels do contain cleaning additives the concentration is set to maintain a level of cleanliness. Much in the same way we here in the northeast have warm and cold weather additives to "make cars more fuel efficient" because people warm up their cars before going somewhere or periodically run them during the night if its really cold. The cleaner is a stronger concentration to bust up the deposits in a dirty engine...personally I think they're all a crock..I'll stick to my hand cleaning and rebuilds...the easy way is never the best way...
Quote from: Onlypastrana199 on December 31, 2006, 11:20:58 AM
Gas with ethanol does not mix well...whether it be with mixing oil or stabilizer...it will eventually settle out. The shell station has more ethanol than other stations around me so I won't get gas there if its for my two stroke or for storage. At school I had no choice..I had to pick up and shake my fiddy to remix the gas in the tank or completely drain it each time I wanted to use it.
Just to reiterate..you're still missing the point. While higher octane fuels do contain cleaning additives the concentration is set to maintain a level of cleanliness. Much in the same way we here in the northeast have warm and cold weather additives to "make cars more fuel efficient" because people warm up their cars before going somewhere or periodically run them during the night if its really cold. The cleaner is a stronger concentration to bust up the deposits in a dirty engine...personally I think they're all a crock..I'll stick to my hand cleaning and rebuilds...the easy way is never the best way...
Im not missing any point. and the carbs are already off so I really could care less about the thread anymore. its not like its hard to rebuild a carb anyways so whatever.
I could have sworn this was a 3~4 page thread.
Maybe I'm nutz. :cookoo: :dunno_white:
Quote from: Susuki_Jah on December 31, 2006, 11:55:03 AM
Quote from: Onlypastrana199 on December 31, 2006, 11:20:58 AM
Gas with ethanol does not mix well...whether it be with mixing oil or stabilizer...it will eventually settle out. The shell station has more ethanol than other stations around me so I won't get gas there if its for my two stroke or for storage. At school I had no choice..I had to pick up and shake my fiddy to remix the gas in the tank or completely drain it each time I wanted to use it.
Just to reiterate..you're still missing the point. While higher octane fuels do contain cleaning additives the concentration is set to maintain a level of cleanliness. Much in the same way we here in the northeast have warm and cold weather additives to "make cars more fuel efficient" because people warm up their cars before going somewhere or periodically run them during the night if its really cold. The cleaner is a stronger concentration to bust up the deposits in a dirty engine...personally I think they're all a crock..I'll stick to my hand cleaning and rebuilds...the easy way is never the best way...
Im not missing any point. and the carbs are already off so I really could care less about the thread anymore. its not like its hard to rebuild a carb anyways so whatever.
Ummm yeah ever heard of carbon build up on the valves. W/E If you don't care 1. Why did you ask in the first place and 2. Why do you keep posting in this thread? I mean apparently we are all alot dumber than you.
The previous owner of my GS did a rejet, K&N, and V&H and for whatever reason it tends to runs a lot rougher on 87. I've gone through 3 or 4 tanks of 87 and am going back to 89. Perhaps the gas containing 10% ethanol has something to do with it. More likely, it is just jetted a little lean (I swear I'll check eventually :mad:)
Any product that claims to clean your engine is largely bullshit. For the GS, an engine problem due to deposits is so unlikely its not worth worrying about. In general, engine cleaning products (like seafoam) are for more primitive engines and engines have been used way beyond their typical lifespan.
Quote from: Susuki_Jah on December 31, 2006, 06:10:07 AM
sorry charlie I dont post at tbricks and havent in a long time there is no point considering I wouldnt get any help from a lot of those guys anyways , usually a bunch of liberals with the wrong idea on life anyways.
But I dont see the need for the post you made. its one thing arguing a point its another posting what you posted, but sense you want some gradification it seems here you go , because I know this is what you are feeling inside:
Yeah, you didn't get good answers over there because your attitude. Seriously, 'liberals with the wrong idea of life'? What kind of statement is that? I posted to point out that you have an attitude that allows you to think that you know the answer, but you don't know enough to know what you don't know. If you would just listen to answers, and take them all with a grain of salt, you will actually learn from your questions and others' answers.
Want to Clean the Carbon Out? Get a Squirt Bottle full of Water.Pull your Air Filter.Start the Bike and let it Warm up to Operating Tempurature then Spray water into your Carbs.A half a Pint of Fine Mist Per Cylinder Should do it.Follow up by taking it for a Blast down the Road a Few Miles to Burn the Excess water out of your Exhaust.I know Somebodys going to think I'm full of shaZam!. :laugh: BUT I'm Not. :thumb: I Have a freind in PA that has Done it all of His life to His Two Strokes (And I know of Others) and unless they are Very badly Carboned up it will Clean everything Clean as a Pin.He is a Certified Mechanic at Just about Everything VW,Suzuki,Kawasaki and Harley.If He'll run it thru his Two Strokes it sure ain't going to Hurt your GS500 4 Stroke since the Mixture of Fuel and Water is Going thru the Crankcase on the Two Strokes.
Also if you want to clean everything out Mix a Tad bit of Car Automatic Transmission Fluid in your Gas.I know an ASE Certified mechanic that Swears by Transmission Fluid.On one of the Boards that I frequent they had Several recipes for Homemade Octane Booster and Transmission Fluid was one of the Main Ingredients along with Rubbing Alcohol, (91% is Great at Helping Disperse the Water that Forms when Ethanol Seperates and Draws Moisture into your Gas) MEK,Diesel fuel or Kerosene among Other things Depending on How much of a Boost you want.
Another way I have found to Get a Little more Omph ut of my Truck by Raising the octane is going to the Station and buying a gallon of 114 Octane (Needed some to jet my T500) My Truck Knocks on Just about anything these days but I was Running Kind of Low on Gas and Had a Little over a Quart of Race gas left and Dumped it in my tank.I then went to the Station andtopped it off with 11 Gallons of 89.I actually got 40 extra Miles out of that tank of Gas and Filled it up at a Station that I knew had Semi Bad gas.At $5.00-$8.00 dollars spent on Enoughoctane Booster to raise your octane to 101-108 your better off to buy 1 Gallon of 114 octane and Dump a little in your tank ever so often.
As pastrami says
Quote from: Onlypastrana199 on December 31, 2006, 11:20:58 AM
Gas with ethanol does not mix well...whether it be with mixing oil or stabilizer...it will eventually settle out. The shell station has more ethanol than other stations around me so I won't get gas there if its for my two stroke or for storage. At school I had no choice..I had to pick up and shake my fiddy to remix the gas in the tank or completely drain it each time I wanted to use it.
And it is true I have Gotten Gas at the Station and My truck has Ran Good (Don't Know How it Has 300,000 Miles on it) and a Couple of days Later buy gas at the same Station from the same Pump a few Hours Before the Delivery truck Arrives.The Next Day my Truck will not Run and it is Due to getting what is left in the bottom of the Tank which is Ethanol and probably Water.I bought 5 Gallons Back last Year for my Cousins honda 3 Wheeler he let the Sealed Can set for a week in the barn before he filled his Tank up.One day we had to use it to run Cattle and it wouldn't start.We Checked Everything and when we got to the filter water started Pouring out.We Uncapped the tank and the Gas No longer looked like Gas it looked like Milk. :mad:
If you want Pure Gasoline find a Small Independent Service Station that sells Fuel from a Small Independent Oil Company that buys Straight Gas before it is Blended.We have one here where I live that only Sells 100% Pure gas.I'm sure there are Others out there but are probably hard to find.
Here is the Link to Formulas for Homebrew Octane Boosters. :thumb:
http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/octanebooster.html (http://www.gnttype.org/techarea/misc/octanebooster.html)
Quote from: nightrider on December 31, 2006, 02:06:22 AM
After reading these posts I think I will stop buying premium gas. Although I feel so good putting the stuff in, thinking it's the best that money can buy, helps keep the engine clean, makes it go faster, extends its life, makes it sound better, etc. etc.
Now I will start saving 30 cents a gallon or whatever the difference is.
you are absolutly right to be putting the cheap stuff in.
i know this has been beaten to death, but i think i can explain it a bit clearer then it has been explained:
Octane is a measurement of the fuels flash point. As in the temperature at which it will ignite.
The higher the octane, the higher the flash point.
This becomes important in high compression engines (usually ones with some sort of forced induction, a supercharger or a turbocharger), because when the fuel/air mix is compressed, it heats up. and when it compresses more, it heats up more, and can ignite solely from the heat generated by the compression stroke, instead of being ignited by the spark plug, like it should be, when it should be. this pre-ignition causes engines to knock or ping, which is BAD.
So the long and the short of it is - if you engine isnt knocking or pinging, you will get absolutly no benefit from higher octane fuel. like it has been said, even if they do put more cleaners and detergents in it, it is in such negligible quantities that it will not effect your engine in any measurable way.
There are exeptions to this with some modern car engines however. My supercharged riviera needs the premium shaZam!, but if i put regular gas in it, the computer is smart enough to detect knock before it is audible, and before it can damage my engine, and the computer automatically retards the timing. so even tho it wont knock with low octane gas in it, you get worse milage and performance when you dont use the premium stuff, because the timing is retarded.
but i doubt there is a single bike engine on the market with a knock retard system.
My manual says to use octane 91 or higher in my 05 GS.
Quote from: bentrider on January 01, 2007, 10:08:08 AM
My manual says to use octane 91 or higher in my 05 GS.
91 listed in the manual is Research Octane Number. According to this post from another topic, this converts to 87 octane. There are a bunch of other posts that back this up if you want to search for them
Quote from: Chuck on December 12, 2006, 07:46:14 AM
Quote from: pingpong on December 11, 2006, 10:10:59 PM
Hm, I don't have the Suzuki manual but Clymer says to give it 87 Octane. Under the seat, though, there's a label that says to feed it 91 octane. Is the label wrong? The bike is a 1995 49-state.
What country are you in? Europe and Australia use RON, USA & Canada use (R+M)/2. So 87 in US is the same as 91 in other places.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octane_rating)
I don't know a lot about the science behind using different octane levels but I know what my experience is. My wife has an old 1982 Honda CB750 and if we put low octane gas in it, when it runs it is horrible. It goes phut...phut..phut...pop! and continues to do that. there also seems to be a bit of lag when you are trying to accelerate. When we switch to High octane it runs smoothly. I figure since it works in her bike to smooth things out, I just use it in my K2 GS as well. I know that's kind of a dumb logic but I don't mind spending the few extra cents for something that seems to be working.
Out of curiosity, does high octane gas last longer without stabalizer than low octane gas? And if you are adding Stabil to a tank of gas, should you add more if the octane rating is higher? I'm not sure exactly how Stabil stabilizes the fuel so I had to ask.
Quote from: OhDot on January 01, 2007, 10:51:04 AM
I don't know a lot about the science behind using different octane levels but I know what my experience is. My wife has an old 1982 Honda CB750 and if we put low octane gas in it, when it runs it is horrible. It goes phut...phut..phut...pop! and continues to do that. there also seems to be a bit of lag when you are trying to accelerate. When we switch to High octane it runs smoothly. I figure since it works in her bike to smooth things out, I just use it in my K2 GS as well. I know that's kind of a dumb logic but I don't mind spending the few extra cents for something that seems to be working.
Out of curiosity, does high octane gas last longer without stabalizer than low octane gas? And if you are adding Stabil to a tank of gas, should you add more if the octane rating is higher? I'm not sure exactly how Stabil stabilizes the fuel so I had to ask.
i beleive, and by all means sombody that knows more correct me if im wrong, that higher octane gas actually degrades faster then lower octane gas (without stabilizer).