So, I was in a Bike Store the other day and I see this extremely sexy looking bike in the corner. I ask the guy what it is and he tells me it just came in from Florida. It's a Ducati 999 sports bike. I am looking at the bike and realize that the Tach goes pretty high, but..............There's No REDLINE!! I ask the guy where the redline starts and he says "where the tach ends". He goes on to brag about the fact that this bike provides full torque from the bottom of the tach all the way through until you shift!! That's when I hear this kid behind me say "I would kill myself on that bike!!" Which seems like a pretty reasonable prospect.
Now I have made a habit of generally riding smaller bikes. The biggest bike I have ridden was a 750 and it was a cruiser at that. I did, however, always have the impression that the "danger level" of a bike could always be governed by "Who is twisting the throttle". Whether a relatively "virgin" rider is slowly rolling on the throttle on their GS500 or whether they are doing the same thing on their Ducati 999, if they are being gradual and careful they should be alright.
When I heard about this "torque all the way" kind of bike I started to question that. I know that the bikes weight, suspension, tires, etc all play a roll in how well it handles, but if I am riding my GS at 100 km/h and can control it, shouldn't I be able to reasonably control a supersport at 100 km/h if all things are kept equal? I am asking for the more experienced riders on the forum to let me know. Eventually I may want to upgrade to something a bit sportier, but will it make a huge difference? I don't want to set myself up for disaster.
That's a great question, I'd be interested in what the others have to say. I was told before that experience is the only thing that governs your safety.
Well, in my opinion the problem with a novice on a bike like that is IF they make an error with the power it leaves a TON of HP to make the error worse.
Where as with a GS the HP can only cause so many problems. I have always been told that a novice shouldnt be on a bike with more than 70ish hp.
Um, with great power comes great responsibility :)
The first two replies say it all.
My riding buddy borrowed a Busa.
He had it for about two weeks.
He could have kept it longer but gave it back after two weeks.
The bike scared him. Not because he was scared to ride it but
it was just too tempting to keep pushing it to higher and higher speeds.
To have a bike a like that and enjoy it you have to have tons of willpower.
if you have ever accidently goosed the throtlle, the difference betwwen the gs an the 999 is that your gs is gonna accelerate till you let off, the 999 is gonna be tumblin down the highway while your layin on your back. my best friend had this experience with his new gixxer 2 years ago. theres many reasons not to jump on a high hp bike.
The 70 horsepower rule sounds like a good one. To be honest, I used to really get excited about lots of cool looking plastic and fairings all the way. Then I got my naked GS and I can't stop looking at naked bikes now. I think my next step would more than likely be in the naked SV650 direction. I believe that would fall in the 70 or less hp zone but would still give me a bit more than the 500 to play with. That is, of course, when I am done having a few more years of fun on my GS!
The SV650 is pure fun ! :thumb:
It's all about throttle control. I have a gsxr 1100 with a 1260 piston kit... fully ported head with cams and all the old school tricks... to include a quater turn throttle. It's a pussycat under 6000 rpms... If you wring the throttle out on that thing like a 500 you're going to be in trouble. When I first got it there was a set of avon tires on it.. If I gunned it too hard the rear tire would break loose. Since adding the pirrellis the front has popped up on me only once by accident :icon_twisted:
Good rule of thumb... New bike (even a used one) ride it like you're following the manufactures break in instructions. When you get that first six or seven hundred miles under your belt have some fun with it..
You can be killed on any bike. How you control it is up to you. A 125 can put on your head just as fast as a 1000. Learning to be smooth on the throttle now will be needed to handle more powerful bikes.
Having torque and hp pretty much at will can be enjoyable but also deadly. Spinning the rear can happen (and will), especially exiting turns. I learned how to deal with it on the TLR I had, and it only had about 125hp. Track riding gave me the opportunity to explore the limits of traction vs power on several bikes.
Torque throughout is common with V-twins. An I-4's torque is more at the peak. I loved riding the twisties on my TLR at 7000-9000 rpm (max torque was at 7400 rpm) but it required a steady hand and a conscience effort.
There is no reason to be scared of a bigger bike but you must respect it.
Dgyver are you saying that you learned to ride a bike on one with 125 hp? I agree that you should respect all bikes especially the higher hp ones but a novice is more likely to make a life altering mistake on one of those high hp rockets than a 47 hp gs.
I saw a guy try and take off on a new Gixxer and the bike took off but he stayed put. That just couldnt happen like that on a low hp bike. Just my 2 cents though.
Of course it does. Everyone should follow a proper progression just like anything else in life. Ideally, you learn (that is, make a lot of mistakes) on dirt and start off on a small street bike. When you upgrade you should do it in steps. And realistically speaking, modern 600cc supersports already have more power and capability than you can safely use on the street. If you take all that money you'll spend on "upgrading" and instead buy some track days you'll have more fun and be a better rider. Really, I don't understand the obsession with always wanting a bigger bike. The only difference I see between guys on a smaller bikes and guys on bigger bikes is that the guys on the bigger bikes are lazy about shifting.
Quote from: Bulwark on January 06, 2007, 07:17:51 PM
Dgyver are you saying that you learned to ride a bike on one with 125 hp?....
No. I did not say that.
I think that for an inexperienced rider a big bike increases the likelyhood of crash/injury, due to the lack of experience with the controls (ie throttle control, etc). big hp bikes do things fast. real fast so if you make a little mistake the big bike will react in more pronounced ways than a gs will, and may overwhelm the experience level of the rider.
Once you are more experienced, the big hp bikes take a getting used to but arent hard to ride. Having said that, I dont ever see myself getting a liter bike. I like my 600.
Well, I guess I'll just echo what everyone else said. With more HP is the potential for the bike to leave your control quicker. I can launch my GS (when it's running :laugh:) at 8K from a stop light... it'd make the front light, it'd probably scare the shaZam! out of me if I didn't slip the clutch right... but odds are pretty good that I'd stay on the bike. Could I do that on.. say... Dave's Gixxer750? I don't think so! The only two bikes I've ever ridden are a GS and a Gixxer750. The 750 was amazing, everything they say it is. Smooth, balanced, light(er than the GS!), responsive.... and ridiculously too much bike for me. I rode it in a parking lot, and REALLY enjoyed it... and it made me realize that I want a gixxer600... SOMEDAY.. in about 4 more years, after college, when I'm financially set, and after I've done a dozen plus trackdays on my GS.
Just my $.02
this reminds me... a few weeks ago we interviewed a guy who lost his leg on a motorcycle accident. he was embarrased to admit it was a 125cc :icon_confused:
Episode 20: "The Fastest Car on Earth (Part 1)"
I've never driven so fast in my life. This speed is taking me into another dimension. It's fantastic!
-- Speed Racer
At midnight in a cemetery, the GRX racecar engine is unearthed. The following day Spritle and Chim are trapped inside a truck. It takes them to Oriana Flub's house, where Chim Chim is tied to a motorized go-cart. When the chimp comes to a stop, one of Oriana's men sprays a "formula" at him. As he takes off again, Oriana announces that "they'll win the Grand Prix of the Orient."
At the track, a new racecar comes on the scene. Pops recognizes the sound of its engine. High in the stands, Oriana and her right-hand man, Omar watch while a thug sprays the driver of the mysterious car with the formula. At Oriana's house, Pops accuses her of stealing the engine "out of the tomb of Bent Cranium," the engine's inventor. Pops adds that five test drivers and Cranium died because of the GRX. Oriana knocks him out with "sleeper gas."
In the garage, Speed discovers the famous GRX engine. A man named Curly appears. A fight ensues. Meanwhile, Spritle and Chim Chim rescue Pops, who's tied to a chair. Speed knocks out Curly. As if hypnotized by the car, Speed gets inside to "try it just once." The high speed takes Speed into another dimension and he passes out. :thumb:
Quote from: gsmetal on January 07, 2007, 02:29:35 PM
High in the stands
Are you sure it wasn't YOU that was high? :laugh:
Some of the higher powered bikes have features that, in a way, make things safer.
Smooth hydraulic controls, good low-end torque, smooth and predictable power delivery, good tires, etc.
You don't need any horsepower to hurt yourself, just watch the idiots on an ad for "Jackass - Part XII" or whatever. Or watch the real thing if that's what you're into.
Since any motorcycle can get you fast enough to hurt yourself, the power factor doesn't determine speed so much as the amount of time it takes to get to that speed.
It depends more on the attitude of the operator than the HP...
My $0.01....
ive had the pleasure to ring the fun bags off a race rep 999rr,
and i must say, you'd be a legend if you could ride that thing slowly, i managed to do 260kmh (150mph) in 4th gear :D still with 2 more gears to go. and wasn't slow getteing there
front wheel didnt touch the ground till the end of 3rd gear,
i would say it is just too tempting to ride like a maniac on a bike like that, far too much fun :D
its all down to the rider weither you ride it like you stole it or weither you can harness the urges to plunge the bike into break neck speeds.
me.... its just too tempting
i think the gs is a great tool to learn how to control a bike. but personally, i'd rather have a 600cc bike over 750cc+ because i've always been taught that going fast with a big motor isn't hard, but going really fast with a small motor takes talent. i like to think of myself as talented (not on a bike, yet) so why bother going to a high cc bike? with cars, i learned learn how to shift, learned what a powerband is, now i can go fast in cars that aren't considered fast cars. theres obviously more to it than that, but bottom line, i respect someone who can do a lot with a little more than someone who does big things with an excess of power.
Theres a reason why some crotch rockets are on insurance companies blacklists. You ever hear of an insurance company blacklisting a GS500 or a Ninja 250 etc etc. Too many inexperienced riders walk into dealerships and pick out the bike they think suits them because its looks totally awesome and cool or the colour matches there favourite pair of running shoes. They know there friends who are still riding pedal bikes will think they are "god" because they roll up on a brand new race bike.
Its too easy for inexperienced riders to get there hands on out of the box race bikes. With the 0 down 0 percent crap that the dealers have on now, these people are walking in a dealer for there first time with nothing and riding away with $10,000 machines.
10 kilometers and 10,000 RPM later they find themselves headed into a disaster at a speed they only reached in a video game.
The decision on what bike to buy when first entering into motorcycling is HUGE. The kid standing behind you knew what he was talking about.
Im not saying all new riders make bad decisions. Theres solid reasons why bikes like the GS500 were created. And this topic is one of them.
Quote from: gsbarry on January 08, 2007, 01:41:38 PMTheres solid reasons why bikes like the GS500 were created
mmm, so suzi could make more money! :thumb:
Hey, I remember that eppisode of Speed Racer......
Damien
I have a cbr600 with 100bhp. For me it is no more dangerous than a gs500. I think the danger for new riders with powerful bikes is the temptation to go too fast. They are just as easy to ride, maybe easier and with a some experiance you should know when you can use the power and when you should hold back.
I can't see myself getting a 1000cc race bike just no need. Maybe a Z1000 but just for the look but I would keep my cbr for the track.
Now I am just getting started in the bike world (only riding about 4 months) but I know now that the only reason I would want a bigger bike than the GS is if I wanted to ride with a passenger. Keeping in mind that I ride a limited power version (25kW) it just did not have enough power to smoothley accelerate with a passenger. But then again the unlimited version of the GS could have enough power to do that at normal speeds.
Greets Rob
Quote from: OhDot on January 06, 2007, 09:31:14 AM
So, I was in a Bike Store the other day and I see this extremely sexy looking bike in the corner. I ask the guy what it is and he tells me it just came in from Florida. It's a Ducati 999 sports bike. I am looking at the bike and realize that the Tach goes pretty high, but..............There's No REDLINE!! I ask the guy where the redline starts and he says "where the tach ends". He goes on to brag about the fact that this bike provides full torque from the bottom of the tach all the way through until you shift!! That's when I hear this kid behind me say "I would kill myself on that bike!!" Which seems like a pretty reasonable prospect.
The guy was blowing smoke up your ass a bit. I rode a Ducati 999 last year at a big test ride (http://riftwave.net/blog/index.php?p=114) that Ducati organized at a local dealership. YES, the 999 was fast (fastest off-the-line bike that I have ever ridden). As a V-twin most of its torque is down low... but that 'no redline till the tach ends' is a load of bull. Like all V-twins, the 999 will rattle your fillings out of your teeth when the rpm's get too high. I have a nagging suspicion that the engine would likely shake the fairiings off the bike long before you bounced the needle off the rev limiter.
Quote from: OhDot on January 06, 2007, 09:31:14 AM
When I heard about this "torque all the way" kind of bike I started to question that. I know that the bikes weight, suspension, tires, etc all play a roll in how well it handles, but if I am riding my GS at 100 km/h and can control it, shouldn't I be able to reasonably control a supersport at 100 km/h if all things are kept equal? I am asking for the more experienced riders on the forum to let me know. Eventually I may want to upgrade to something a bit sportier, but will it make a huge difference? I don't want to set myself up for disaster.
Compared to your GS500, the Ducati 999 will definitely feel like 'torque all the way'. Its not just a night and day difference... its a dark-side of the moon and ionishpere of the sun difference. Let me put it this way:
I had recently upgraded to an R6 from a GS500 when I rode the 999. When I climbed back on to go home... riding the 999 made my R6 feel as slow/weak a GS500. There is a deep well of torque there that just doesn't exist on a GS500.
Are you, as a rider, ready for such a machine? Who can tell? Will you automatically wrap the bike around a tree if you try to take it down the street? No. Having ridden a GS500, you should possess all the skills for basic operation of a motorcycle. This (in theory) means that you are ready to start (from scratch) to learn how to handle a stronger bike without making a rookie mistake that will get you maimed or worse. That is what 'starter bikes' are all about.
As for a 999 like most liter bikes... they look nice, but are way past overkill as far as streetable power. I only left 2nd gear ONCE during our test ride (and only for a few seconds). You should try to ride a few different bikes by time you are ready to upgrade. That will help you decide what you want to upgrade to when you're ready.
I had no idea I would end up on an R6 when I started riding. Cost and timing played a part (the R1 only cost $1300 more and was 2 years newer, but I didn't want to spend ALL my money on a new bike), but I had a good idea of what I didn't want as well.
it'd be nice if u could add some sort of restrictor to those bigger bikes. that way u can dial it in for as much power as you really need/feel safe using, while still having a sweet bike.
I'm no seasoned rider, but I gotta disagree with anyone who says that its all the attitude of the rider. if you stick someone with little to no experience on a 100 hp bike they are much more likely to hurt themselves than if they are on a 40 hp bike even if they have the perfect 'ridiing" attitude. Equally severe injuries are possible on either bike but they are just more likely on one then the other. Think back to when you first started and clutching was a concious action. How easy was it to rev too high and drop it or get off to a jerky start? A bigger bike provides a lot more power for an inexperienced rider to accidentally engage . Speed kills - the danger is part of the attraction to a lot of people including me. The point is that no one should be in the saddle of a machine like that until they've developed the dexterity and respect to handle the responsibility that comes with it.
You don't give a 6 year old a loaded gun becuase he saw one on tv and thought it was cool. That child has no concept of the power and consequences of mishandling a firearm - let alone the motor skills or cognitive ability to handle it correctly to begin with. For the same reasons, someone without riding experience shouldn't go out and buy their inner child a liter bike to learn on.
For the record I like both guns and liter bikes - just not in the wrong hands.