I will buy the parts, engrave cylinders(outsource), get new gasket.
Things need to be done as i see it:
* Engrave cylinder (done by someone else)
* Replacing pistons to meat the new cylinder diameters (or should I?)
* Cleaning valves
* Replacing all the gasket
Are there are things impossible to do? Is it too much?
I do lack some tools but it will be an opportunity for me to obtain them.
I have GS500 93' with a manual ;)
Any comments? :)
compression at 143(have no idea what units)
(http://vicolife.com/photography/boris/2.jpg)
compression below 100
(http://vicolife.com/photography/boris/6.jpg)
(http://vicolife.com/photography/boris/3.jpg)
(http://vicolife.com/photography/boris/1.jpg)
(http://vicolife.com/photography/boris/4.jpg)
(http://vicolife.com/photography/boris/8.jpg)
(http://vicolife.com/photography/boris/5.jpg)
I guess by engrave you mean Hone the cylinders.
only replace the pistons if A) you need the cylinders rebored or B) The pistons are damaged, otherwise just new rings.
When you take your cylinders to be honed, take the head and have it serviced and checked and they can tell you how your valves are incase any are burnt, cracked or what ever. Also depending on how many miles you have, the stems or the seals maybe worn. No point in doing an engine refresh if you've got a crap head.
Hope that helps :thumb: :cheers:
(edited by scratch for clarification)
Your pistons look better than mine after 35,488 miles.
Your head looks about the same.
I can't tell from the picture of the cylinder, if it has scoring or not (or scratches; not the crosshatch that should be there).
If honing is all that is required of the cylinder you should be able to get away with only replacing the rings on the pistons. But, sometimes, if too much material is taken off by honing, then you will need a new piston.
The circled area in the head, on the right(No.2) cylinder, I'm guessing is where the compression leak is happening; meaning the valve face is not in full contact all the way around the circumference of the valve seat. One of the two needs work, or replacement.
Maybe both.
Honing... great guys, thanks.
How do i perform honing? Is handed "paper" honing with fine stones should be enough?
no. you need to have someone hone it if you don't know how. you use a special tool for honing (thats where those cross-hatch marks come from). If you don't do it right, your rings will never seat right and you'll be worse off than before. Have a machine shop hone the cylinders if you've never done it.
You can go to your Local Auto Parts and Get a Cylinder Hone wth the Stones but in my Preference I always buy a Flex Hone.They really Aren't needed for a 4 Stroke Bore since there Aren't any Ports to get Snagged like you would do on a 2 Stroke Cylinder.The Flex Hones do a lot better Job though.When Honing all you want to do is Give a Good Cross hatch pattern and it doesn't take long to get the Hang of the Drill Speed and Speed at which you raise and Lower the Hone in the Cylinder.I think the Angle you are Looking for is Around 45 Degrees on the Crosshatching.Aroud 180-240 Grit Stones would be About Right.
If you are serious about taking on a proper rebuild the first thing to do is to measure the cylinder bores and the pistons for wear and ovality and compare these figures with Suzukis min/max allowable figures. Just looking at them with a pair of Mk1 eyeballs is not enough, we are dealing here with tolerences of hundredths of a millimeter. If there is excessive wear found in these components, new rings and honing is a total waste of time and money. I doubt you have the borescopes and micrometers needed to do this so my advice is to take the cylinder block and pistons to a Engine reconditioning company who will have all the equipment, knowhow and experience to be able to advise you on exactly what is needed. In the meantime buy a copy of the Haynes workshop manual its all explained in there.
Quote from: sledge on January 11, 2007, 11:04:19 PM
If you are serious about taking on a proper rebuild the first thing to do is to measure the cylinder bores and the pistons for wear and ovality and compare these figures with Suzukis min/max allowable figures. Just looking at them with a pair of Mk1 eyeballs is not enough, we are dealing here with tolerences of hundredths of a millimeter. If there is excessive wear found in these components, new rings and honing is a total waste of time and money. I doubt you have the borescopes and micrometers needed to do this so my advice is to take the cylinder block and pistons to a Engine reconditioning company who will have all the equipment, knowhow and experience to be able to advise you on exactly what is needed. In the meantime buy a copy of the Haynes workshop manual its all explained in there.
+1
If you want to play around with rebuilding buy a fubar'd lawnmower engine.
OR just buy my Cylinders and Pistons. :thumb: 89 Model with 5000 Original Miles.I can Hone the Cylinders (I think my Flexhone is Good for 74MM) and All you would have to do is Rering. :thumb:I'll even clean the Carbon off of the Pistons.How does $75 + Shipping Sound?I have a near Perfect Complete Head I'll let go for the Same Price.
Sorry for the Plug. :laugh:
Quote from: Jughead on January 12, 2007, 12:44:21 AM
OR just buy my Cylinders and Pistons. :thumb: 89 Model with 5000 Original Miles.I can Hone the Cylinders (I think my Flexhone is Good for 74MM) and All you would have to do is Rering. :thumb:I'll even clean the Carbon off of the Pistons.How does $75 + Shipping Sound?I have a near Perfect Complete Head I'll let go for the Same Price.
Sorry for the Plug. :laugh:
Sound very compelling :)
Quote from: sledge on January 11, 2007, 11:04:19 PM
If you are serious about taking on a proper rebuild the first thing to do is to measure the cylinder bores and the pistons for wear and ovality and compare these figures with Suzukis min/max allowable figures. Just looking at them with a pair of Mk1 eyeballs is not enough, we are dealing here with tolerences of hundredths of a millimeter. If there is excessive wear found in these components, new rings and honing is a total waste of time and money. I doubt you have the borescopes and micrometers needed to do this so my advice is to take the cylinder block and pistons to a Engine reconditioning company who will have all the equipment, knowhow and experience to be able to advise you on exactly what is needed. In the meantime buy a copy of the Haynes workshop manual its all explained in there.
I have measured the diameter with micrometer: on the top i have 13.93mm while in the bottom its 13.68mm
Haynes manual states its should be at 14.000 to 14.015 standard while service limits are at 14.08mm which is weird, i might have done something wrong.
You are telling me your doing something wrong my friend!!!! your getting figures of just under 14mm for the cylinder diameter??? Go back and check again...If the cylinder bore was approx 14mm the pistons would have to be smaller than thimbles :laugh: :laugh:.
My Suzuki service manual quotes the following figures:
New Cylinder bore: 74.000 to 74.015mm. Limit 74.08mm
New Piston dia` 73.945 to 73.960. Limit 73.880mm
New Cylinder to piston running clearance 0.050 to 0.060mm. Limit 0.12mm
Use accurate and calibrated measuring equipment.
:laugh:
Yeah it was 73.93 ... not 13.93. Too much solvent sniffing...
This figure of 73.93? Is that the piston or the cylinder diameter?
Quote from: sledge on January 12, 2007, 05:38:54 PM
This figure of 73.93? Is that the piston or the cylinder diameter?
Cylinder. I will check the piston for what variation the honing shouldn't exceed,
or how much honing can take from the cylinder?
If you are Measuring at the Main top 1/4"-1/2" from the Gasket Surface and the Same Amount from the Bottom you will have Very little if Any Wear in those Places due to the Rings Not Reaching those Areas.You'll need to take Measurements in the Middle of the Bore. ;) Still those Numbers Sound Pretty tight without any Clearance for a New Bike. :icon_confused:
Boris?
Do you know what it is your doing and understand decimals and tolerances?
Your cylinder cannot be 73.94mm in diameter. Look at the figures...a brand new cylinder will be between 74.00 and 74.015mm and this figure will increase as it wears in use, up to a maximum allowable diameter of 74.08mm. If your cylinder measures 73.94mm that means its REDUCED in diameter by between 0.06 and 0.075mm from new.......thats impossible.
Either your micrometer is out or your using/reading it wrong.
Quote from: sledge on January 12, 2007, 10:03:27 PM
Boris?
Do you know what it is your doing and understand decimals and tolerances?
Your cylinder cannot be 73.94mm in diameter. Look at the figures...a brand new cylinder will be between 74.00 and 74.015mm and this figure will increase as it wears in use, up to a maximum allowable diameter of 74.08mm. If your cylinder measures 73.94mm that means its REDUCED in diameter by between 0.06 and 0.075mm from new.......thats impossible.
Either your micrometer is out or your using/reading it wrong.
Hi Boris
Where are you measuring on the cylinder? If you're measuring the cylinder above the ridge made by the top piston ring, that could explain the weird measurement. Have you thoroughly de-carbonized the cylinders?
What are you using to measure the ID? A bore gauge? Inside micrometer? Telescoping gauge?
Post a photo of how you're using the instrument, if possible.
Thanks guys for all the support!
Finally i've done much less then wanted to.
Just cleaned my valves and with something like diamond powder made them dig in ("slaid" my mechanic said)
Replaced rings and closed it all.
All seemed fine first second but the engine couldn't hold its RPM.
At this point i gave up. I assume the valve head is f%&ked.
Sold it back to a dealer as it is. Got my self GPZ kawk. :cry:
:icon_twisted:
Hee hee. :laugh:
Still, he got way farther into that thing than I've ever been.
I guess thats one way of solving the problem!
Another way involves a household product that can be easily found at any supermarket and many convenience stores as well. Are you familiar with box wine, sledge?