OK I have an "Invention". I am sure its not the first or last of many dumb ideas I ahve had. But let me know what you guys think of this.
I like this a lot because it uses what is essentially a house hold waste product ... :o
I have a device that is a bag of sorts. You can carry it in your pocket or backpack. Its smaller than a pack of cigarettes (ok fine its larger than that ... but ... not by much ... easy to carry in your bag or tool area of your bike ... heck you can wrap the tools in it presumably).
The part where it comes into play is ... you run out of gas. You dont have to push your bike miles to the nearest gas station. You can walk or if you have another rider ... you can siphon or drain some gas from his/her bike into this bag. Then fit the tap (provided) and put the gas into the tank. 1+ gallon worth capacity and you ride off to the gast station for the next fill up.
I could sell a few for like $5 + shipping.
If I start getting orders pouring in, I may have to work on a minimum and work on getting it made etc ...
What you think.
Now what is this revolutionary material ... and household waste you say ??? pray tell ...
OK Its the bag that is inside of the cheap ass wine that is sold in boxes. Its 2 layers of super thin polypropelene or whatever crap and has a tap that believe it or not, isn't that hard to remove. Presumably after 3-5 or more times it may start leaking ... but hey we'll think about it when we come to that. Maybe an O ring seal ??? or something can be designed into it. Numbers are the key to get the manufacturers to do it. for right now, I am happy to reuse what essentially ends up in a land fill.
So what Y'all think.
Cool.
Srinath.
Oh yea ... clean the wine out of it ... dont want your bike drunk on the wine ... and dry it out well ... that is a real beeatch ... though a wee bit of water may not be too big a deal.
Cool.
Srinath.
how hard are those to colapse down and will the gas eat through it? not a bad idea tho.
-ash
Man, that's a great idea! That's, I guess, would be considered thinking out of the box!!!
Gas will not eat it. Its a mylar type thing ... inpervious to everything. Cleaning it is the worst part ... after that its should be good. Its not meant to be cleaned ... so it doesn't ... Of course the tap seal may be an issue ... with repeated use.
Cool.
Srinath.
Just carry some condoms.... multi-use - water, gas etc... :icon_mrgreen:
Well ... you are Dr Love ... :laugh:
Cool.
Srinath.
Or you could just switch to reserve :laugh:
Tell that to "whitetiger"....."Third time I've run out of gas... What's wrong with my reserve tank!!!"
:laugh: ;)
Just stop for gas more often. :cookoo:
I can see issues. Over here there are numerous laws and regulations regarding the storage and transport of petrol. You are not allowed to store and transport small quantities of fuel in anything other than approved containers and I cant see it being any different over the pond. I cant see a wine bag meeting the standard. Ok nothing stopping you as an individual doing it but would you be allowed to market and sell it without it being classed as an approved container???........you need to do some digging.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/LAU/lacs/65-9.htm
Its not going to be stored or transported. Its going to sit empty. Its going to be carried by hand with gas from a gas station to your bike. Then it goes right back to being empty.
Storing and transporting are concerns in a moving veicle only. It needs to get DOT approval for being transported in a vehicle. However I am not marketing it at all. Its an idea for someone to use if they want to.
Cool.
Srinath.
If you start selling that on here, someone will die. A new rider/squid that has never siphoned gas is gonna get a belly full of 87 octane and drop dead. :cry:
You dont siphon. You fill it with at a gas station. You also can unhook gas lines and get it out of another bike. No siphoning needed. Of course another bike being around, you can get on it and ride to gas station and get it back. No need for siphoning.
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: sledge on January 20, 2007, 04:54:21 PM
I can see issues. Over here there are numerous laws and regulations regarding the storage and transport of petrol. You are not allowed to store and transport small quantities of fuel in anything other than approved containers and I cant see it being any different over the pond. I cant see a wine bag meeting the standard. Ok nothing stopping you as an individual doing it but would you be allowed to market and sell it without it being classed as an approved container???........you need to do some digging.
http://www.hse.gov.uk/LAU/lacs/65-9.htm
+1
you cant put gas in anything other than an approved can in the US :2guns:
Yeah, it's illegal to use an unapproved container, but how many minimum wage clerks actually look, especially when you're using a credit card outside? :dunno_white:
I think this is a great idea IF you can figure out how to use it practically. Have you actually tried reattaching the spigot to a bag full (or 3/4 full) of liquid?
You could also flatten a gallon milk jug (not quite as portable, but close).
If there is another bike around and you have a hose, you eliminate the need for the bag.
If you're going to the expense of actually buying or creating a bag to carry gas in the event you run COMPLETELY dry, you are admitting you are forgetful enough that this will actually save you time and money.
Kind of like um... carrying an ice pack around in the event you get in a fight and need something to put against your black eye.
It might come in handy, who knows? :icon_mrgreen:
Yeah, it's illegal to use an unapproved container, but how many minimum wage clerks actually look, especially when you're using a credit card outside?
You have missed my point. The question I asked was would you be allowed to market and sell it as a product for storing and transporting fuel allowing you to profit from the idea without it being an approved container?.......doubtful. Drop a can full of petrol 4 foot it will take it without bursting, will a winebag do the same hhhmmm?
Using a wine bag to transport fuel is a very grey issue. If you do it without incident no-one is likely to complain, but if something happens that results in injury or damge, certainly death you will have the book thrown at you. Like all good ideas at the time, the idea of a collapsable, and space saving container must have occured to makers of petrol cans before now....but I dont see one on the market.
One - I have already told y'all to grab your used up wine bag and use it ... so screw the marketing part. If you buy them from me, I'd sell you a used wine bag no mention of gas. But hey ... use your own ... if you want.
And Yea you are going to stuff your bike under someone's bike to fill gas in it. If you have a hose ... I didn't mean have a long hose per say (which is not a bad idea BTW) ... you can fill something this small with the stock fuel hoses off a bike. No need for more hose.
And sledge ... this wine bag will take my 240 lb weight without leaking. I doubt a gas can will. I have blown this up and stood on it. Its not going to burst or leak ... atleast not without a few times of pulling off its tap and re fitting it. Its going to probably stand up to all the same conditions as a can with less leakage ... however getting it DOT certified, whole other issue. I am not doing it, this thing is already out there, I go through the effort of certifying it and now everyone has a bag they can use. Its not a secret at all.
In any case ... the can was invented what 50 years ago ... this bag deal has popped up in the last 10 ... I think its a question of ... well the wine companies have this bag they are using, and we dont have a control over it ... so we aren't even going to suggest it to people. This is somehting everyone of us has access to as a house hold item. No industry is motivated to show you how to use something you are throwing away. They want to have you throw it away ... and buy their "approved product". It will take a 10 foot fall, it will take a heavy man standing on it after its fully inflated with air BTW and not ever leak, it will fit in your pocket or backpack and about the only real draw back I can see is that it only carries 5 liters. 1 1/4 gallon. The usual can is closer to 5 gallons and that is huge especially when filling up a lawn mower etc ...
Once again - I am selling used wine bags for $5. Not no gas nothing.
Cool.
Srinath.
Working for a large Engineering company on many sites inc` petrochemical and other high risk installations means that health and safety is a big issue and it becomes a main part of your job, this fact gets continually drummed into you almost every day. After years and years of it you become aware of risks and hazards that many people dont even see, even when at home or carrying out mundane tasks it becomes second nature just to look for the dangers. Hence my concern with this issue. You may think I am just being negative and argumentative but personally I have seen too many safety-videos and after event pictures, and read to many accident-reports and horror-stories about the mis-use of flammable liquids to contemplate carrying even small amounts of petrol in a wine bag......but hey.... its the individuals choice and most things in life have an element of risk to them so if someone wants to do it.......go right ahead. Its really non of my concern and besides most people think accidents always happens to someone else anyway.
`Nuff said.
Heck, small amounts are worse than large amounts. Anyway, you'd never have a partially filled bag in your back pack. You'd only carry empty bag. The only time it will ahve gasoline in it is when you are walking back from the gas station to your bike. Then you fill it, un tap it when empty, drain the last few drops into the tank, and wipe the tap and insides with a few sheets of Paper towels, toss that in a trash can and you're done. Its just as dangerous as your gas can with gas in it.
Cool.
Srinath.
Those mylar wine bags are pretty strong against pressure and pretty much immune to blunt trauma.
The problem comes with any thing sharp. Drop a bag onto anything like a bit of glass on the hard shoulder and it'll start pissing petrol.
Also carrying a smooth amorphous bag without any handles weighing in at about 5 Kg for X miles is going to be a pain.
As most gas stations sell fuel cans for pretty cheap, I'd just buy a can, fill it then chuck it once I'd filled the bike.
Gas plus plastic like that = napalm. Sticks to things.
I think Srinath just cant bear to throw out a perfectly good plastic bag (with a nozzle!). They must be piling up in his garage. what kind of wine you drinking Srinath... Franzia Sunset Blush
OK dropping it on pavement on to broken glass will not do it. Its double walled ... one layer is plenty to hold it back ... plenty. Unless you ahve nails or a knife lying on the road in your neighborhood, its going to hold it just fine. Lack of handles - yea I'll admit that, buying a gas can and tossing it OK fine its an idea ... as is bungee cording an empty can to your seat and riding back home. But that will not help you drain gas from a friends bike. OK you can use his bike to ride to the gas station and run back with a can and then toss the can.
And no it wont stick to gas ... its very impervious to it. It can get burnt or singed by the exhaust or cylinder head contact ... but that's about it.
You guys need to get a clue sometimes. And yea they are piling up ... I also have another idea surrounding these. Yet to be released.
Cool.
Srinath.
It's a nice idea, but it isn't idiot proof for the masses.
Besides, I could never get myself to drink a box-o-wine :cookoo:
I think Srinath is experimenting with some version of E85 in his bikes.
I am sure he knows you can't put new wine into old wine skins so...
Maybe his development cycle goes something like this:
- Dumpster dive behind the liquor store for out of date boxed wines....
- drink some to see if the dates really mean anything....
- wake up later wondering if he was abducted by aliens...
- check to make sure "the boys" are still with him (can't trust them aliens you know)...
All kidding aside, you might get a buck of two for submitting it to Family Handyman as a tool tip kind of thing. Call it "Emergency Container for needed fluids". I think they pay $50 for accepted submissions.
Those were probably invented by a Clemson University Packaging Science (http://www.clemson.edu/pkgsci/) major.
Seriously, you can get a degree in that.
Really.
Ok, don't take this as a personal hit....but its useless. I mean I'm 36 and I've never ever run anything I own out of gas. Save the lawnmower. When I switch to res I start looking for a fill up. Besides that it has the same basic range each time.
And srinath wine in a box? Come on...if you ever get down this way I'll send ya back with some real wine...buddies a wine rep, yeah his job sux! :)
Quote from: seshadri_srinath on January 20, 2007, 07:01:23 PM
You dont siphon. You fill it with at a gas station. You also can unhook gas lines and get it out of another bike. No siphoning needed. Of course another bike being around, you can get on it and ride to gas station and get it back. No need for siphoning.
Cool.
Srinath.
Gas stations aren't supposed to let you fill anything not approved for gas. Just be careful.
Quote from: annguyen1981 on January 21, 2007, 08:50:58 PM
Quote from: seshadri_srinath on January 20, 2007, 07:01:23 PM
You dont siphon. You fill it with at a gas station. You also can unhook gas lines and get it out of another bike. No siphoning needed. Of course another bike being around, you can get on it and ride to gas station and get it back. No need for siphoning.
Cool.
Srinath.
Gas stations aren't supposed to let you fill anything not approved for gas. Just be careful.
Here's all you have to do to get around this:
buy the smallest possible DOT approved gas container. There should be one about the size of a 32 oz jug. Then you keep the bag inside that and stow it under your seat. When the time comes to use your wine/emergency fuel transport bag, you just go in to the station and fill that 32 oz'er up. Then go around back and pour it into the bag. Do that 5 or 6 times and you have a gallon, and you're good to go.
Srinath, you have a good idea but I wouldn't try to sell it, you would just be opening yourself up for a lawsuit. People are stupid lawsuit happy, thats why they have ridiculous warning labels, to cover themselves. If you suggest it to others you might want to have a little disclaimer: I am in no way responsible if you injure, maim, or kill yourself with this idea.
I could understand the comfort in having some sort of gasoline transportation container with you at all times, like other tools for the bike, just in case. But this could be circumvented by keeping track of your mileage, and just toping off the tank every 60-70 miles. Also I understand they charge like 8 bucks for a 1/2 gallon dot container, which is overpriced if you ask me, but safety is important when dealing with such a highly flammable substance; Accidents are called that because they are just that, accidents. No one means for them to happen, regardless of the precautions they take. If you feel comfortable doing it go for it, but to suggest it or sell it to others would be putting their well being in your hands.
Yea yea yea ... OK I give up. Just in case someone wanted to use it ... its there.
Cool.
Srinath.
Great IDEA !!!!! If you ride in groups, and you or someone runs out of gas, you can un hook a gas line and turn the petcock on to fill the bag with fuel and be on the road within minutes. (and throw the bag away)
No need to worry about gas stations not lettingyou fill up, Or whether the container is "approved".
Srinath has a good Idea for a quick fix "in case" you or someone you are riding with runs out of fuel.
f%$k a lawsuit. f%$k the DOT. f%$k a Naysayer.
It is a simple "put in toolbag and forget" insurance policy, that takes up minimal space and could possibly save you a headache.
I for one thank you Srinath for posting an Idea that you thought might help us in a pinch. I know what it is like to push my bike a mile or two.
Yea 3imo, thanks. It will never be dot approved because its already out there.
Wine companies that probably own the tap and maybe even bag patents dont care, you've already bought the product, and gas can companies dont want you to ever buy this, cos its free (heck it costs you to not use it if you buy it for the wine) and everyone else knows they'll never sell enough of it to even cover the cost of getting it DOT certified cos its available free. Its almost like patenting air and making you buy air from them. Like WTF ... its in my house ... so I am going to sniff it and screw you.
And here we have people theorising this and that. Way to beat a dead horse.
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: Dr. Love on January 20, 2007, 12:10:10 PM
Just carry some condoms.... multi-use - water, gas etc... :icon_mrgreen:
Yeah, I heard once that you could recycle condoms. Just turn them inside out and shake the f*ck out of them.
Quote from: 3imo on January 22, 2007, 08:43:56 AM
Great IDEA !!!!! If you ride in groups, and you or someone runs out of gas, you can un hook a gas line and turn the petcock on to fill the bag with fuel and be on the road within minutes. (and throw the bag away)
No need to worry about gas stations not lettingyou fill up, Or whether the container is "approved".
Srinath has a good Idea for a quick fix "in case" you or someone you are riding with runs out of fuel.
f%$k a lawsuit. f%$k the DOT. f%$k a Naysayer.
It is a simple "put in toolbag and forget" insurance policy, that takes up minimal space and could possibly save you a headache.
I for one thank you Srinath for posting an Idea that you thought might help us in a pinch. I know what it is like to push my bike a mile or two.
In that situation I'd rather have something like one of these:
(http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/photos/03800-03899/03878.gif)
It's $5 at Harbor Freight and about as portable as a empty wine bag. A lot easier to deal with than a sack full of gasoline too.
I might be mistaken but once you load a siphon of sufficient length and begin the transfer of liquid, it is entirely possible to siphon fluid from one container of equal height to another.
Mandres - what if you're alone ??? Like me ... always a commuter, never a rider ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Guys?
What cant be denied is that fact that carrying fuel in something not designed for the purpose presents a higher risk than carrying it in something designed for the purpose. Period. Thats why DOT and BS regulations apply. They are there for your safety as much as anything else, not for someone to make a fast buck. I cant see how anybody and I mean ANYBODY with any sense at all can disagree with this statement. Its not even a justifiable risk as there are other and far safer options than using a winebag although some may see these as inconvenient.
Some initial thoughts, winebags are not as:
Impact resistant.......Flame retardant.......Heat resistive...... easy to handle.....easy to use, as DOT approved containers, and I am sure there are other comparisons that could be made.
Its speculation as to if the internal parts of the valve are fuel tolerant. We know they are wine tolerant but wine has a much higher flashpoint than petrol (if it has one at all) and it doesnt contain solvents and acetones which dissolve certain plastics. Petrol expands when heated, can the bag cope with this without bursting? Imagine having it in a backpack in the sun and the winebag full of petrol suddenly exploding all over you?
Saying "What if?" doesnt count......cos in reply I will say "what if" while you were fumbling with it you dropped it on a hot exhaust, and what if it instantly melted, and what if 2 or 3 pints of petrol suddenly ignited right next to your legs......do I need to go on.
Ok you can drop a DOT can but its easier to handle hence and far less likely to happen and it wont instantly melt if it hits the exhaust on the way down.
C-mon guys, lets see some sense and agree. Its a dangerous practise, its not and never will be safe under any circumstances whatsoever and the risks are simply not justifiable. As long as this thread continues it is giving ideas to those who will refuse to accept the risks and adopt the "Wont happen to me" attitude. I say forget pride, personal opinion, loss of face, backing up your mates etc and delete the thread now!.......before someone does take the suggestion on board and becomes a statistic.
OK here are the many many inconsistencies with your argument.
1. There is no acetone in gas as of right now. If there was ... its going to eat up the liner in tanks of people (both kreem and POR will come loose with acetone) a lot before you ever manage to run out of gas.
2. The bag is never intended to be carried in your backpack full of fuel. you carry it empty. you fill gas in it and carry in your hands if and when you run out of gas.
3. Its resistant to fuel I have soaked it in a trough for weeks. The tap and the bag are definetly resistant to gas.
4. You spill gas on hot exhaust, it will burn, doesn't matter if it came from a bag or a can and the plastic a can is made out of isn't flame retardant or heat resistive (is that a real word ?? WTF ... you George Bush ???). your argument will have worked well for metal gas cans, which are becoming as common place as common sense from you.
5. The bag is much more impact resistant than a can, and the bag is also more sealed than a can. There can be other comparisons made and the bag will beat the can (plastic can) in all of them.
6. If you dont want to use it dont, but know this, it is not ever a profitable venture to educate the customer. That is why its not on the market. No way anyone can make a profit out of this period.
7. They also transport cheese and chili in these bags and anyone who has had nacho cheese chili at a gas station has had food out of these. The bag will not melt at 400 degrees. It will not melt if it hits the exhaust on the way down. if it was held in contact with the exhaust it will melt, but so will a can.
There is no argument that does not involve the words DOT certification that trumps the can over the bag. If there was any damn profit to be made and if I took it upon myself to turn this into a business venture, I'd make a wine bag with handles so it will be just as easy to handle as a can. However there is nothing preventing you from carrying it in a bag right now ... so I dont see how it serves me to put in the work. Like I said, its like trying to license air.
Common sense people ... use it or not ... much like everything else ... you reserve the right to be stupid.
BTW I have heard the same damn argument sledge when I started the no jet kit method of jetting. DJ must have done this, and you cant say this is better ... blah blah blah ... it took a few people having trouble with DJ kits, struggling with it, never getting it to work, sending it to me and me swapping it for stock needles and 150-125/40's and literally drop in and its a whole different bike.
Oh yea BTW, most wine bags are made by a company called Scholle. They have a huge factory in Merced CA. I worked there as a factory floor worker off and on in Sept-Nov 2001. The bags are made of mylar and damn near indestructible.
I cant believe I am having to promote a free product. Literally free ... less than free if you count the effort of throwing it away.
Maybe people tend to agree with me because I have a long history of calling it as it is ... often at my expense. Think about it ...
As a warning to everyone in here and outside of here - dont use it if you dont want to or think you are incapable of using it.
Cool.
Srinath.
Wow.. never thought I'd see the day where Srinath corrected someone else's spelling/grammar. haha.
I just think it's sad that he as to defend himself over something so trivial.
If some dumbass mis-reads this thread and burns himself, there is nothing that can be done. Neither Srinath nor Gstwins are liable.
He is not condoning mass transport of fuel in a winebag. Some people...Sheesh :dunno_white:
Your attitude dissapoints me guys, as does the apparent lack of conscience and responsibility.......It very unlikely I know, but I pray to God I never have to work with you.
**NOTICE**
DO NOT USE WINEBAGS TO STORE OR CARRY FUEL, ESPECIALLY IN A BACKPACK.
If you like you may keep a winebag in your tool kit in case you run out of fuel and need a easy to carry disposable container to move fuel from a freinds bike to yours. Dispose of the bag immediately and do not use it to transport fuel.
-----
Hows that for a lack of conscience and responsibility? Sorry for your dissapointment. If only everyone on the internet thought like you, then all would be better, cause we would never leave our beds for fear of the dangers posed by the outside world, and never hold ourselves responsible for our own actions.
Quote from: sledge on January 23, 2007, 12:06:38 PM
Your attitude dissapoints me guys, as does the apparent lack of conscience <snip>
So is your english comprehension.
Cool.
Srinath.
3imo?
Everything in life presents some degree of risk, what sets people apart is how they interpret and manage those risks. Some will always take bigger ones than others and needlessly put themselves and others at risk......my guess is you fall into this group.
Sesh?
Whats wrong with my English, I cant see a problem with it apart from the odd typo`. I am in the UK dont forget, and over here we use it in a different way than you so I cant see how you can make any valid comment.......particularly as it was us that gave you the language to start with! :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
I didn't say grammar or spelling ...
I said comprehension.
You dont use it to transport fuel.
You dont put it in your bag when you are walking back to your bike.
Heck 3imo suggested you toss it after 1 use. Which I can certainly afford to do, I have like 50 of these. Though I wont toss it. It is nice and dry and literally dirt free after the gas soak.
You are saying that safte guards are there in place for a reason.
I am saying that they are in this case out dated. BTW have you craked open a wine box and pulled the bag out and seen it ??? That will settle it. There is one style that has a twist open. That style is what I tested. There is one style that has a push in with a black button I think. That may be different. There is also a clear bag and a shiny bag. I tested the clear one.
I think there is no real way for anyone to make $$$ on this deal. So its not getting done.
Cool.
Srinath.
you guess wrong, my young padawon, but since you gave us the english language, I guess I can let it go. :icon_rolleyes:
btw- not to speak for Srinath, but he said your english "comprehension". Not the way you use english but the way you read and interpret it.
In *America comprehension is taught in our schools. That way when we reply to posts, we can reply with an understanding of what it is we are replying to.
I beg you to reread the thread until you get a better understanding of what was said..er..typed.
*this is in no way an attempt to burn people from the UK. We have idiots in our country too.
----
dammit your too quik Srinath.
Oh yea, sledge I have 2 words for you ...
Rokon Trailbreaker ...
It has tires that can be filled up with gas.
Cool.
Srinath.
What is this??? are you guys really so pissed that I poked holes in your ideas and continually changing suggestions that you have to resort to personal insults regarding grammer to try and get one back.....grow up for **ks sake. It seems to me you just have difficulty admiting to yourselves that some people are a lot wiser and more sensible than you are in certain areas and you cant accept the fact. I think its been accepted by the majority that wine bags and petrol are a crazy idea. Whats also been demonstrated are your own attitudes to personal safety. If a Fireman told you it was a bad idea would you dispute him? If you want the last word on the subject...take it with my blessing, it obviously means a lot to you, but dont for an instant think you have convinced me winebags and petrol are a good idea, nor is saying "do it if you want to.......but at your own risk" because you may well give someone daft enough, the idea.
I struggle with a lot of your grammer but dont make a fuss about it, BTW its not "So is your English comprehension". It should have been "So DOES your English comprehension" I would have thought that after way over 200 years you guys would have got the hang of it by now......but some people just take longer than others I guess.
I am not going to make any further comments, we have all made our points and had a laugh along the way. Its time to let it drop, I dont want a repeat of the OMW affair. As I said earlier, if you want the last word.....take it with my blessing. However, if you come back with another personal dig at me, I might, if its funny enough and I stress the word funny, decide to reply.......so if you do, please try hard and make it count.
You smell funny.
Was that funny enough? :laugh:
I got a kick out of the "t was us that gave you the language to start with" comment.
don't need the last word. I think you said it best.
Quote from: sledge on January 23, 2007, 12:06:38 PM
Your attitude dissapoints me guys, as does the apparent lack of conscience and responsibility.......It very unlikely I know, but I pray to God I never have to work with you.
Quote from: sledge on January 23, 2007, 06:07:23 PM
What is this??? are you guys really so pissed that I poked holes in your ideas and continually changing suggestions that you have to resort to personal insults
Sledge - Dude you are wrong about 90% of your argument. The one part you aren't wrong about is the fact that its difficult to carry cos its got no handles. All the rest is wrong or a strawman argument.
I said it may leak at the tap after 3-4 uses and may have to be tossed right at the first post. So its supposed to be tossed after a few uses as per my idea. Nothing is changing in anything except the warnings.
Here is a new one ...
You may be too stupid to put to productive use, what is currently a household waste product. In that case please refrain from doing so.
BTW I have the bag sitting in my back pack for a few days after I soaked it in gas, and dried it in the sun and with paper stuffed inside. Its not even smelling of gas. Again YMMV.
Cool.
Srinath
Sesh?
lets forget about our own personal and differing points of view on the subject and leave it to the real experts instead. Are you prepeared to look at these pages and make comment?
http://www.humbersidefire.gov.uk/safety/petrol.asp
comments.httphttp://www.fireservice.co.uk/safety/fuelstorage.php
http://www.hse.gov.uk/press/2005/e05020.htm
http://www.cambridgeshire.gov.uk/business/trading/information/safety/petrolcontainers.htm
This one is the best......
http://www.hazcheck.com/general.asp?np=news_28
I agree that in the presence of alternatives for storing and transporting fuel a wine bag should be left in the recycle bin.
Oh sledge, thanks for posting the links. That's what makes the air tight wine bags so safe. Much much safer than the DOT approved cans that do give off the vapor that is so dangerous. Good point. Thanks.
Cool.
Srinath.
Well if you could get it approved I'd sell them at 15 - 20 bucks a pop.
And I'd pay that for it too.
No, do your own damn wine bag reusing. The whole damn thing filled with wine costs like $12-13 so its not in any way shape or form ever ever ever going to be profitable.
BTW getting it approved will cost a few 100 G and I'll essentially be patenting air.
BTW tommorow I am going to take a few pics of me standing on one of thse bags. BTW several people including Cheesy have seen me do it and heck I'll demo it to anyone who comes by to see me.
I may also make a video clip of me jumping off a stool onto one of these inflated to the top of my lungs capacity and see if it blows ...
Its viable because its a waste product. Its smart cos it ends up in a land fill, its like using your old coke bottle to fill water and carry it around. I dont know how else to put it.
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: nightrider on January 26, 2007, 06:35:36 PM
I agree that in the presence of alternatives for storing and transporting fuel a wine bag should be left in the recycle bin.
Its not for storing or transporting fuel. Its for walking with fuel. Once fuel is in the bike, the bag should be tossed as per the latest iteration of the method.
Cool.
Srinath.
Let it go ppl.. Those of you who don't agree say it and let that be all you say. There is nothing constructive being added here. Srin has an idea, if he wants to suggest it to others then so be it, if you disagree fine, but no need in beating a dead horse. If you know your not going to use it then don't. If you think you might, then ask questions.
Srin is suggesting a one time use of this and I don't see what you ppl are arguing so furiously for. I have seen ppl put gas in a water bottle, pop bottle, and even a biggy gulp cups, for when they run out of gas. This seems much safer than that. Is it as safe or safer than a DOT? Probably not, but only they can say if it is or not, regardless of how much testing we do in our garages. So Let it go.
A pop bottle... that is a good idea. They cost like what, 75 cents from any vending machine. Just go, buy a pop, drink the pop, and fill with gas. Even cheaper than a box of wine, and no less DOT-approved.
Now, where's that "waving a red flag' emoticon :)
Sesh?
If you are walking along the road with your winebag full of petrol, you are a) Transporting it.....by taking it from the gas station to the bike. b) Storing it..... by putting petrol in there specifically to transport it.......Or have I missed something?
You jumping up and down on an inflated winebag just proves it will carry your weight when inflated. It doest prove its safe to carry petrol in it. I am certain the DOT approval tests are far more involved and stringent than just jumping up and down on the container......Or again, have I missed something?
Video?? great idea. If you are going to make a video to prove your point, do one of you dropping a winebag full of petrol onto a hot exhaust while stood next to it......If you dont get flash-fried you might just change my opinion. (DISCLAIMER Dont anyone else try it) :laugh:
Fixed-
(http://crfsonly.com/howto/crf250x/crf-valve-adjustment/image004.jpg)
:laugh: :laugh:I'm an ass
Nightrider- OK ... a pop bottle holds 2 quarts, has a mouth too small to fit the filler nozzle of a pump in and worse than that, it occupies 2 quarts volume when not used. Bag holds 5 quarts and occupies a pack of cig sized volume when empty.
Sledge - trnsporting also includes putting it into a car and driving around with it. storing also indicates putting it there and leaving it for weeks. How about very short term storage, and very very low speed transportation. BTW it will stand up to over a weeks worth of both, mine has been soaking in gas for a week.
And I'd like to see you drop a plastic can on hot exhaust. If you dont get flash-fried you might just change my opinion.
Plastic can was invented and certified when, in 1960. Before that it was the metal can. All you arguments totally work for metal over plastic (except the leaking part). None of those work for mylar bag over plastic can. The mylar bag came into life when 1990 ??? Simply put its not been tested because it was invented by a different industry, and its made to suit that industry. At the present time, making money out of it = making money out of air. Its not happening. So its not worth it to do certification on it.
The bag is much more air tight than a can ever will be. Your firefighters link has proved that that is vital. I guess now you dont care about it leaking ... you want it dropped on hot exhaust.
Cool.
Srinath.
They thought Galileo was crazy too... even locked him up. Maybe we should do the same to Srinath. :icon_mrgreen:
Sesh?
You are clutching at straws. Let me be a bit more specific about your video. Of course a plastic can will melt if it drops and lodges onto a hot exhaust but it will give you enough time to stand back before it does, that is part of the approval standard......I should have said a glancing blow off the exhaust on the way down....lights...camera......action?
No sledge, you are constantly changing your stand. Now its a glancing blow on hot exhaust, not a problem it will entirely stand to that. Please do remmeber that the bags are double walled and are heated to 400 F or so to fuse them.
In any case Gasoline has been spilled on hot motor and exhaust several times by me personally, its not all that flammable in that situation. I do jump back though, but Its not caught on fire yet knock on wood. Has anyone else done that ???
I have only got 1 conclusion to make from all if this. You have never seen a wine bag. And certainly dont know where all its used. We constantly put them in hot cheese and chili dispensers. They heat it to ~160 I think and it sits there for hours. We stack 100's upon 100's of these filled with beans and other food and transport it in containers or frozen carriers. They are filled with Ragu sause types straight from the vat (very hot) and they dont blow. Its the non tear envelope of fluid transport. You'd need a pair of scissors to cut them and a knife or needle to puncture them. Exhaust will burn it, but not in the instant it takes in a glancing blow. Plastic can vs wine bag = Bag. No contest. Metal can vs wine bag, yes metal can except leaking and fumes.
Yea they'd prolly lock me up. I prolly have cost them a few 100 bucks. But I have cost DJ several 1000 atleast. This and the eliminator sites have people using a no kit method. Whooo hooooo ...
You're comparing 60's tech vs 90's tech and saying ... its certified. I'm old school, dont care what is certified. I see "certified" geniuses all the time when I try to hire people and they dont know their butt from a hole in the ground. In my opinion certification is just an accepted way to stay stupid.
Cool.
Srinath.
Wait a second here, look at this scenario - which is when you'd use winebag/gasbag ... OK you are riding. You run out of gas. You go Oh ... I'm out of gas.
You walk to gas station. Of course you can be 10 feet from a gas station, which means you'd prolly push it there inspite of having the bag. Anyway you walk ... and its prolly a good bit to the station, atleast 1/4 mile I'd say. And you'd be insanely lucky if it was only 1/4 mile. Walk up 1/4 mile and fill gas in it, pay for it and walk back 1/4 mile.
Assuming your average walking speed is 3 miles an hour - very high (we use 2.5 feet per second if I remmeber in transportation estimates) its been 8-10 mins of walking 1 way and 5 mins for fill and pay. 15-20 mins. I'd say you dont have a hot exhaust anymore. Its at best warm, your motor is prolly hotter than the exhaust ( cos exhaust will shed heat fast being out in the open ) and that would also be just warm.
I can see how a gas can needs to adhere to that hot exhaust restriction, cos you use it to fill boats, fill lawn mowers, fill dirt bikes on a trail, all of which aren't 15-20 min wait times.
Cool.
Srinath.
Sesh?
A question.....is it in your view a safe practise or not? Simple yes or no answer please.
Reply # 69! Woohoo! :laugh:
dead horse - bam - still alive
Of course, after all this, once you get to your gas station, at which there may not be self-serve (as in OR), you are unable to convince the attendant to let you fill your wine bag. Then where are you?
Better to just pay the $8 for the stupidity of having forgotten to both use the reserve switch and to fill up your gas.
I think it's dead now. Is it dead?
C-mon Sesh, is it a safe practise or not? Put your co** on the block......one word.... Y/N?
And remind us what the bag and valve are made from.
Safe - absolutely.
Are you stupid enough to get it messed up and have a bigger accident - absolutely. Probably no more so than with a can probably. Believe me, if you're making a habit of running out of gas, how to carry it may not be yur biggest probem. Anyway ...
Material - Bag is mylar, tap is delrin I believe - same material frame sliders are made from. Maybe its something else - acrylic/polypropelene. Scholle's makes only the bag. I only know about it in great detail.
No clue about the tap exactly except that it wont get eaten by gas. The wine companies buy the taps themselves from somewhere. No clue who makes that. The shut off valve (used by Ragu, Taco Bell other companies is made by scholles. But we're not talking about that. Use it, or dont use it ... or like me carry it, and hope you dont have to use it. I cant believe a waste product needs so much arguing to see if people want to use it.
Cool.
Srinath.
Sesh?
It has to be said that your opinion of it being safe contradicts that of the experts. With you saying its safe does that mean you think the Fire service, the DOT, the petrol companies, the garage owners and the legal bodies that control and govern issues relating to fuel safety are all talking BS?......again one word please Y/N?
Are you sure the bag is made from mylar? Mylar is a registered trade name owned by DuPont for their sole version of a type of polyester film. You will find the bag is made from what is known as Metalised-BoPET film.
You have got the tap right, it is polyprop` I suggest you now go and check on the proprties of PP and of the styrene based elastomers that the valve internals are made of. Pay particular attention to the (lack off) tolerances to aromatic-hydrocarborns inc petroluem that food grade PP and SBE has.
One word answers are possible only to one word questions. So stop your one word Y/N questions. Its stupid and worse than your strawman arguments.
I dont quite know what the tap is made of but it is resistant to gasoline. It also is very leak proof after several operations. The leaking I have said is possible is where the tap is re inserted into the bag.
You are yet to see one of these looks like.
The fire service and who ever have they explicitly siad that they have tested a wine bag and said that such and such is the reason why its unsafe ??? Then your argument is invalid. They simply have not even thought about it.
DOT will test anything if you pay them for it. Petrol companies ??? did they test it and say the wine bag I am refering to is unsafe. Again they all can say only carry it in an approved container ... who cares, they are just being CYA.
We used to call it mylar in the factory I worked at. We may have bought the raw material from dupont ??? I dont quite know. I also dont know what the tap is made out of. Just that it has been sitting in gas for a week+ and didn't show any signs of deterioration.
So unless "the Fire service, the DOT, the petrol companies, the garage owners and the legal bodies that control and govern issues relating to fuel safety" are all saying the wine bag has been tested and it failed in these aspects they are all talking BS. Them saying use only approved container for transporting gasoline is just covering their ass. One word answers are not possible.
Cool.
Srinath.
Can some one lock this thread? Every things been said....let it go, if you don't want a free bag, don't get one....simple!
This thread should be destroyed forever to avoid potentially polluting our offspring for generations.
Sesh?
Full marks on the cop-out, you should be in politics! What was so hard about the question? Either you agree with the Authorities or you dont.....simple. My guess is you feel obliged to agree with them and in fact do but you just dont want to admit it to me in case I accuse you of hypocrasy. Can you convince me I am wrong?
This link will tell you more about BoPET. Dependent on where the manufacturer sources his raw ingredients for his winebags particularly polyester film it might contain Mylar... if he buys a product not made by DuPont it wont contain Mylar. BoPET might contain Mylar but the two are totaly different things.
http://www.contpoly.co.uk/Metallised.htm
http://www.contpoly.co.uk/BOPET.htm
You seem to think that the DOT will test any container for suitability for fuel.
I doubt it very much. ANSI/UL1313 covers standards for non metalic fuel containers in the US unless I am mistaken. If the system works like it does here in the Uk there will be a section in the standards document titled Construction Standards/ requirements. In it will be listed such things as suitable materials, sizes, markings, features, colours etc. If you want a product tested against this standard you have to at least try and meet the requirements before subjecting it for approval. You take them a winebag and ask for approval they will laugh in your face and say **ck off and dont waste out time.
So:
You have suggested twice I am making Strawman comments. In light of this I suggest YOU.
A) Clarify if the practise is safe or not and if you agree with the opinions of the authorities and governing bodies relating to fuel safety.
B) Take time to find out exactly what materials are involved and their proporties before making comments relating to the subject.
C) familiarise yourself with the relevent methods and requirements of type approval for fuel containers before suggesting your DOT will test and approve a winebag.
Sesh?
So far you have not made any comment that suggests you know what it is your talking about...and I am not even going to mention the subject of safety, either with regard to yourself or others. Right now I am sat in a office with 5 other very experienced and highly qualified Engineers, and we are all laughing our heads off. You might be good when it comes to rattling the spanners Sesh but you should really leave matters like this to the Pro`s, particularly where safety is involved.
OK here it is ...
It will not dissolve in gasoline as its sold in NC USA.
The tap will not leak in the few times it will be removed and re fitted and opened and closed.
The bag will survive a 6ft drop when full of gasoline I believe without leaking, but will have to be tested.
The bag will completely come through unscathed with a 250 lb man standing on it.
The bag as it stands right now is a mystery to you and your friends.
I have already said, not worth testing it. I did say that they (DOT etc) simply haven't tested it and you seem to think they will not ever test it. And OK fine I will agree to that.
I dont know how many times to tell you the tests I have made amd how it behaved.
There is one more flaw which someone else pointed out. It has to be red. Gas = red in USA.
There are also several more tests I have to do. I want to soak it in diesel. I would also have to soak it in summer gas (which has different crap than winter gas, but winter is worse I have been told), and then again there is California gas.
I actually dont care who will or will not certify what. I dont ever care to market this, this is like I have said before like trying to patent and profit from air.
So stop throwing do this and do that in my face. I dont plan to do sheiete as per your desire. I plan to do whatever I am going to do and I plan to post about it.
Its all anecdotal evidence. i dont have to prove sheiete ... I dont ever plan to do anything other than post on a website with whatever I do to this.
I already have posted you may be too stupid to use this idea. Its like this, lots of people drink. Some of those fall in a ditch and choke on their own bile. If that's you, fuel in a wine bag may not be for you.
Its called ... freedom of speech.
Cool.
Srinath.
Yeah.......but is it safe?
OK so much for your "You seem to think that the DOT will test any container for suitability for fuel.
I doubt it very much. ANSI/UL1313 covers standards for non metalic fuel containers in the US unless I am mistaken. If the system works like it does here in the Uk there will be a section in the standards document titled Construction Standards/ requirements. In it will be listed such things as suitable materials, sizes, markings, features, colours etc. If you want a product tested against this standard you have to at least try and meet the requirements before subjecting it for approval. You take them a winebag and ask for approval they will laugh in your face and say **ck off and dont waste out time."
http://www.interstateproducts.com/all_tanks-fuel.htm?gclid=CNu6vPvoi4oCFQsEVAodfg03RA
OK. Then ... what other lies of yours can google expose ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: sledge on January 31, 2007, 04:33:23 PM
Yeah.......but is it safe?
Not only is it apparently very safe, its not even my idea ... so much for patenting or DOT certifying it. Someone has already beaten me to it and by a mile.
Cool.
Srinath.
Interesting......but it doesnt look like a winebag to me. What standard is it manufactured to? Cant see it being 1313. Its going to hold a lot more than a few litres and its hardly portable is it? It does mention its made from fuel resistant fabric...not Mylar/Polyester film. C-Mon Sesh try a bit harder.
And once again ... this tells me you are yet to see a wine bag ... cos the square ones, look exactly like a wine bag.
And I didn't say it was a wine bag. I just said it was a bag that is approved and used by US aviation and US military for storing and transporting (and yes, long term storage and high speed transportation) of fuels.
Did you notice that those bags were like 1000's of gallons capacity ... thought I might mention that before you say .. .well that seems like its so thick walled ... your wine bag seems so thin ...
But good to know you're renting a sense of humor, cos you're gonna need it when your theory about this or that comes crashing down.
Cool.
Srinath.
You think I have never seen a winebag??? Now that is funny, you must think we are still in the dark ages over here hahahah.
My theory is as follows, dont be confused
Winebags are not suitable or safe for storing or transporting fuel. Nor will they ever be certified as such owing to their design, and materials used. That thing in your link is NOT a winebag. Its a container thats designed and made specificaly to store and transport flamable liquids, unlike a winebag. There is no valid comparison here and I dont know who you are trying to convince. Like I said before.....try harder.
Well I didn't say that exactly ... and I didn't mean it as anything derogatory. When you say the words wine in a bag, or wine in a box people promptly give you the look ... that pretty much says, "what trailer park did you crawl out of" ...
Its cheap ass wine that comes in a bag ... mate. No reason you should feel bad if in fact you haven't seen one, and heck I thought europe was better than our Walmart box-o-wine drinkers. I hafta run. be back tommorow to find out more fuel bag trivia.
Cool.
Srinath.
Sesh
Dont worry about it, I didnt take the comment as derogatory. Over here people who drink wine from a winebox/bag are not really thought of as any different from those who choose a bottle although most prefer wine from a bottle. People tend to buy a winebox when they are having guests or a party. Cost doesnt come into it, you can buy a cheap bottle of rat- piss for about £3.00 much less than a box and get monstered on it no problem if it doesnt rot your guts out first . Anyway Its no good asking me mate....I drink beer.
it's called getting "monstered"?
cool
Wine in a box has one advantage over wine in a bottle. They fill the bag to the top, without any air in it. The bag never gets any air till it gets emptied. So your wine never oxidises as a opened bottle will.
I should also not be surprised by its leak proof quality. Wine costs like $10 a gallon ($12 for the box which is 5 liters) Gasoline is less than 1/4th that. Obviously its leak proof. Wine also has alcohol and tons of acid in it as well as sulphur etc ... chemical proof. Plastic worst enemy is acid. Which is why tomatoes eat the plastic containers if you let it sit long enough.
Cool.
Srinath.
You are loosing the plot Sesh.
You mean losing ??? and no I am not. Just getting though some stuff at work.
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: seshadri_srinath on February 01, 2007, 08:17:44 AM
Plastic worst enemy is acid. Which is why tomatoes eat the plastic containers if you let it sit long enough.
Bleh..I didn't need THIS image while eating lunch! ??? :laugh:
http://www.turtlepac.com/collapsibleair.htm
http://www.turtlepac.com/airdetails.htm
They are dropping bags full of water from an helicopter here.
There is also the construction of the bag on the bottom. Basically Polyurethane and polyester and a fuel resistant coating on the inside.
I dunno what that is, but Polyurethane is itself gas resistant. Maybe they want that extra protection for Avgas or kerosene and for the service life.
Cool.
Srinath.
There is only one thing to do if you continue in this vein Srinath... dual drop tests from progressively higher floors of a tall building. Preferably with a lit candle in the vicinity.
And film it! :thumb:
Quote from: nightrider on February 01, 2007, 01:38:15 PM
There is only one thing to do if you continue in this vein Srinath... dual drop tests from progressively higher floors of a tall building. Preferably with a lit candle in the vicinity.
I will do that, as soon as you drop a plastic can filled with gasoline and I'd prefer a spark tester or a nice electrical short instead of a candle.
I am just making a point. Bags are in use for storing and transporting fuel very much approved by DOT and aviation industry. If you dont want to use it, dont, but if you've gotten on a plane chances are, you have used it.
Cool.
Srinath.
http://scholle.com/about/PDFs/Press-Successisinthebag.pdf
Mylar type MPB. And Evlax for the fill mouths. They package battery acid and cleaning chemicals also other than what I have seen.
There is more comming but like I said, its not somehting anyone can make and sell, so its pretty much a losing proposition.
Cool.
Srinath.
http://www.flymetothemoon.com.au/homebuilding/mylar%20chemical%20properties.pdf
That is for chemical resistance to solvents.
I dunno what to tell ya sledge ... you're wrong on all counts.
Its gotta be filled full of liquid and dropped 6 ft, 10 feet, 20 feet ... never mind that a can will never pass that test ... I will do it in a bit. I can stand on it, and it wont blow, lets see a can do that.
Cool.
Srinath.
Sesh?
I have to say I am struggling......struggling with your way of thinking on this subject. Remember we are talking about food grade Winebags..thats"FOOD GRADE WINEBAGS" and their suitability for storing fuel...thats"FUEL". The products and info you have linked to have no connection with the subject whatsoever so how do you expect me to make any sort of relevent comment?. I suggest we get back on topic before you loose any more credibilty. Talking about credibilty you are still copping-out from answering my earlier questions and still constantly digressing from the issue in hand as well as proving a lack of knowledge on the subject.
Instead of providing irrelevent info and facts.......back-up and justify your earlier statements and give me (or us) some hard and undeniable 3rd party evidence from a reputable source that contradicts the authourities and proves...like YOU say that fuel can be safely stored in a winebag, remember thats........ "A WINEBAG".
BTW, and I understand if you choose to disbeleive me on this one. I was doing some shopping last night in a local supermarket. In the wines and spirits section was a pile of about 50 wineboxes.....at least one of them was leaking as there was a sticky wine puddle on the floor.!! I couldnt help thinking to myself, Thats ironic, good job its not petrol in there, and having a good laugh to myself.
Srinath, Dont argue with idiots, they drag you down to their level and always win on experience!
Sledge you were the first to bring this thread to a "personal insult" level and the first to bring up how dumb it is to resort to personal insults.
IMO there went your "credibility" as an adult.
Srinath isn't in jeopardy of loosing "credibility". Even if he was 100% wrong, he has been right way to many times to loose face over one idiotic argument.
He thinks your wrong and you think he is wrong. So f%$king what. Anyone reading this thread can see that neither of you will bow to the other.
Everyone can understand that it would be stupid to carry and store fuel in a winebag. Even Srinath. I am sure he doesn't have a bag of fuel in his backpack as he rides.
You are correct in that it is an unnapproved container and probably highly unsafe for fuel.
He is correct that these bags are extremely hardy and by his first hand account, they will stand up to fuel.
--------------------
I think you both should agree to disagree. AND LET IT GO.
I side with Srinath, for one because I consider him a knowledgeable friend and for two because you seem hell bent to make him concede that you are 100% right.
If you really believe he is wrong than take heed of your own signature.
If you are concerned with some idiot hurting themselves, then you need not worry, anyone legally riding a motorcycle can be considered an adult and should be held responsible for their own actions. Besides the safety issue on this thing has been beat to death.
Nice anecdote about leaking winebag ... maybe someone stuck a knife while slicing open a carton. Now I have never seen a wine bag leak ever. There is a press type tap which can be pressed accidentally in theory if they dropped the box the wrong way. So theoretically it can leak without anyone cutting it open at all. However I never tested or suggested that press to flow cap, its rather small and I dont even like the wine that is in it anyway.
OK is it safe ... that is the question you keep asking over and over and over ...
There is a 100 kinds of "safe" ...
What exactly are you looking for. You need to start defining it. And make sure your definition of "safe" will not eliminate the plastic can.
Here is a clue you "loser". I wont be "loosing any credibility" ... I dont think I'd be loosing anything at all matter of fact. repeat after me, Lefty loosey, righty tighty ... get it.
They sell bags for storing and transporting fuel in aircraft and boats and what not. They are all Aviation and DOT approved.
The "wine bag" has been made to be chemical and solvent resistant. Its also leak proof and meant to carry the 1+ gallon of wine without ever spilling. Its over engineered to the point of having a fully inflated bag stand to the pressure of a 230+ lb man stand on it.
It will survive a drop when filled with fuel just a guess for now, and I'll have to test it in the near future.
As per everyone that has tested and certified it (ASTM and dupont) it, its resistant to chemicals and solvents. Check the table in that link.
You need to start defining what you mean by "safe" its obviously not going to be leak proof if someone stabs it with a knife.
Will it carry the weight of fuel - You bet, wine and battery acid as well as bleach are all heavier than gasoline and it has been certified and is in use for several years to carry those. BTW bike and car shops have a battery acid container. As you see it, its a carton with a hose. Inside of that carton is a bag. Battery acid usually has a density of 1.2 to 1.33. AKA heavier than gasoline.
Will it resist being eaten by gasoline in the time frame its going to be used to carry it. The tests done by ASTM and dupont (and me ) have proved that it will and for a lot longer.
If you want it to stand up and dance for you, maybe you should look for a dog.
How is my "way of thinking on this subject".
It may be "food grade" ... that doesn't mean its NOT solvent resistant.
Cool.
Srinath.
3imo?
With all due respect I think you will find the first personal comments were made by you and Sesh when you started talking about Grammer and Punctuation. Besides I dont see this as an argument, I see it as a friendly debate on the subject. If Sesh has had enough all he has to do is say so and I happily will drop it.
Anyway you dont figure in this.........I am talking to the Organ Grinder......not the monkey!
Sesh?
I cant believe you have suggested someone might have accidently knicked the bag with a knife......you are giving me more ammo`. My comment to that is that it proves just how weak the material is and reinforces the fact it has little strength and is prone to damage from sharp edges/objects, unlike a DOT container. I am tempted to ask you if you think they are stronger when full of gas` but I wont.
You have contradicted the real experts and said its safe. Just prove what you saying is true...back it up...give us some hard evidence instead of dodging the issue, copping-out, and digressing. Tell me where you are getting all this info from. Show me anyone with any real knowledge on the subject who agrees with you because personal opinions count for very little, unless you have a PhD of course.
I am sat next to a Design Engineer (if you choose to believe me) who has a BSc in Plastics Engineering ....he is laughing his **lls off at everything you have said.........and says, Quote:"anyone who tries it deserves to fry" (not that I would wish this to happen to you). Can you blame me for doubting what you say and reinforcing the dangers to others?
Dead horse + continued beating = this thread.
DROP IT, go drink a bear or something and forget about getting the last word... just drop it.
Quote from: sledge on February 02, 2007, 10:25:08 AM
3imo?
With all due respect I think you will find the first personal comments were made by you and Sesh when you started talking about Grammer and Punctuation. Besides I dont see this as an argument, I see it as a friendly debate on the subject. If Sesh has had enough all he has to do is say so and I happily will drop it.
Anyway you dont figure in this.........I am talking to the Organ Grinder......not the monkey!
Sesh?
I cant believe you have suggested someone might have accidently knicked the bag with a knife......you are giving me more ammo`. My comment to that is that it proves just how weak the material is and reinforces the fact it has little strength and is prone to damage from sharp edges/objects, unlike a DOT container. I am tempted to ask you if you think they are stronger when full of gas` but I wont.
You have contradicted the real experts and said its safe. Just prove what you saying is true...back it up...give us some hard evidence instead of dodging the issue, copping-out, and digressing. Tell me where you are getting all this info from. Show me anyone with any real knowledge on the subject who agrees with you because personal opinions count for very little, unless you have a PhD of course.
I am sat next to a Design Engineer (if you choose to believe me) who has a BSc in Plastics Engineering ....he is laughing his **lls off at everything you have said.........and says, Quote:"anyone who tries it deserves to fry" (not that I would wish this to happen to you). Can you blame me for doubting what you say and reinforcing the dangers to others?
Oh ... that is your whole argument ...
OK I will add that to my statements about a bag.
The bag may leak when cut with a knife, or scissors or poked with a needle ... OK happy.
BTW I just said it was possible. I also have said the press type tap can flow when ... pressed ... Might as well add that too ... bag may also flow when tap is opened.
And you have experts who have said that its unsafe ??? unless you happen to have a Phd ...
Once again for the hard of comprehension ...
http://www.flymetothemoon.com.au/homebuilding/mylar%20chemical%20properties.pdf
That shows its resistance to chemicals and solvents. I have dunked it in gas and yes its impervious to it in the week it sat there.
http://scholle.com/about/PDFs/Press-Successisinthebag.pdf
That shows its construction details and the fact that its approved for storing and transporting battery acid and bleach and other liquids including hot coffee, pasta sauce and of course wine.
So, add the 2 statements ... gas is a liquid much like everything else. Gas cant eat bag. So its safe for carrying it.
Please dont stab it with a knife or poke it with a needle ... cos as we all know those things happen evreyday. Sometimes twice a day. Maybe if that's the case, your bike wont be there when you get back with a stabbed gas bag. I guess a plastic can will need to be stabbed a lot harder. But not a problem, the very determined thugs will get the muscle to stab that too I am sure.
Cool.
Srinath.
/me throws monkey poo at sledge
3imo?
Was that humour or sarcasm? either way it was a very good comeback....Respect.
Sesh?
Over here, industry legislation requires us to perform a risk assesment before carrying out a task that may be classed as dangerous, it highlights potential risks and asks you to come up with safe ways of dealing with them. I have had to do about a thousand of them in my time. Personally I will never agree that it is 100% safe, nor will I ever do it myself based on my qualifications experience and training but lets meet halfway and strike a deal. I suggest coming up with and suggesting "The safest and most realistic methods and guidelines"...ie: do`s and dont`s relating to storing fuel in winebags. My concern has always been the safety of others and NOT having the last word in a debate. You cant dissagree that it is risky, but those risks can be minimised.
I will start the ball rolling and say:
"Storing/transporting fuel in a winebag should be seen only as the last possible resort when all other options are impractical or impossible".
Over to you.
Actually I thought your monkey joke was funny.
IMO your posts made it seem that you were taking this too seriously and are only out to make a fool out of a good dude and a valuable member of this forum.
You say it is a friendly debate, then who am I to interfere.
Quote from: sledge on February 02, 2007, 01:19:31 PM
<snip>
"Storing/transporting fuel in a winebag should be seen only as the last possible resort when all other options are impractical or impossible".
Over to you.
I dont think this covers it ... Too vague and each persons "last possible" or "impractical" are wildly variable.
Transporting or storing fuel in a wine bag should be done for the shortest period of time required, and contact with hot or sharp objects should be avoided at all costs even when the bag is not in use.
I'd say its common sense, but here it is as a warning.
Lets see what warnings will have to be there on a Plastic can ...
Hot objects, sharp objects, tipping, weight placed on it or hard object impact, open flame near it.
Cool.
Srinath.
Good points Sesh....in addition what about keeping it out of direct sunlight, being aware of drips and if possible keeping the valve uppermost when full in case it does leak? I think it would also be a good idea to write "GAS" on the bag in case the situation arises were someone thinks it is actually full of wine and takes a good old chug on it :laugh:
I think disposal could be an issue too.....you would need to make sure when its disposed no-one is going to throw it on a fire or put another liquid in it that could become contaminated
Can I throw it open....anyone else got comments???
Quote from: 3imo on January 23, 2007, 12:32:21 PM
**NOTICE**
DO NOT USE WINEBAGS TO STORE OR CARRY FUEL, ESPECIALLY IN A BACKPACK.
If you like you may keep a winebag in your tool kit in case you run out of fuel and need a easy to carry disposable container to move fuel from a freinds bike to yours. Dispose of the bag immediately and do not use it to transport fuel.
-----
<snip>
(http://images.google.com/images?q=tbn:KUUAkgyDKQQPUM:http://www.gototem.com/Webgifs/ClipArt/DomAnimals/Monkey_with_Organ_Grinder.GIF)
You wont be keeping it anywhere. Its meant to be carried back to your bike in your hand.
The valve itself is very leak proof, dont ever see how it can leak, the part where valve is inserted into the bag may leak after a few remove and put back in types, but I am yet to have that happen either, but beware of leaks and transport it with valve on top. Easy enough too.
Writing GAS on it, big deal, you'd have filled up say 10-20 mins ago, so you're that forgetful ???
But all these are comming up on the point of being stupid enough that someone if they get torched by one of those errors, call the darwin awards.
For disposal, I'd put paper towels in it (gas stations have them for spills right by the pumps) and soak up the gas, then take it out, toss the towels and the bag separately.
But Like I said, I still have the bag I soaked. it was dry enough and it cleaned up well enough that isnt not even smelling anymore, but it did smell for a few days while I air dried it.
I have ridden by places that reeked of gasoline, so have several others I am sure ... god knows what was going on in there ...
Yea, keep away from open flames, prolonged sunlight, transport with valve up, write GAS on it and throw it away properly.
I dont think a can is subject to any of these though.
BTW a silver colored bag may resist sunlight better, though I dont buy those personally for non gasoline related reasons - like I hate that wine.
Cool.
Srinath.
There is only one way to solve this:
http://www.judgejudy.com/SubmitCase/submitcase.asp (http://www.judgejudy.com/SubmitCase/submitcase.asp)
I am sorry, but JudgyJudy is so ghey ... I mean, watching it is just ghey.
Cool.
Srinath.
I kind of lost track with all the snarky comments so forgive me if this was already mentioned. Someone brought in donuts and coffee from Dunkin' last week .. they use similar bags to hold the coffee. Probably identical to what you're thinking of Srinath, but just thought I'd pass it along. I've liked the idea from the start ... I'll probably play with the actual functionality of it once nicer weather rolls around.
Much of enjoying life is about calculating risk ... I don't think Srinath is approaching this half-assed ... it's not like he's drinking the wine out of the bag on the way to the gas station.
i learned from my Dad (an engineer) at a very young age to never put gas in anything not meant specifically for gas. That lesson has served me well over the years and i'm sticking to it. Now I'm big on personal liberties, and I'd fill up a milk jug or wine container with gas in an emergency, but I wouldn't tell others its ok to do the same.
At the end of the day, it was a suggestion. Simply that, if you have an empty wine bag available to you, then it could be used to fill with fuel in an emergency. Is it dangerous? Possibly. Is it a bad idea? Possibly. Is it your choice? Absolutely. Nobody is making you do anything, it is simply a suggestion. This constant arguing over the logistics of putting fuel in an empty wine bag is ridiculous and unnecessary. Remember that everything is dangerous if you are stupid enough. C'mon guys, I'm fourteen years old and even I'm more mature than that.
Quote from: OctaneMotorsports on February 05, 2007, 11:25:57 AM
At the end of the day, it was a suggestion ... C'mon guys, I'm fourteen years old and even I'm more mature than that.
Out of the mouths of babes (and I mean that in the BEST way :kiss3:). You show more sense than many people three times your age, Octane. :thumb:
In this case, I think they're just arguing for the sport of it.....Srinath won the last Olympic Arguing Gold Medal...I'll bet ya' didn't know that! ;) :laugh:
He even hints at his prowess in his .sig: And Yes arguing is a competetive sport ... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
What kind of wine does it come from? Just Franzia? Sounds like a good idea and better then hauling around a gas can. Its not like you need much to get the bike back to the gas station to fill up. Could always use a big bottle of mountain dew or something with the wide top... I have no reserve on my bike due to fuel starvation problems. Installed a pingel tank valve and 5/16 fuel cutoff. Before that, the bike shuts off/ stalls on the hw due to lack of fuel. All I do is pace semis and sports cars but end up at almost wot and sometimes just loose track of mileage due to too much fun riding. (152?155 jets)
Its funny to read about someone complaining about a suggestion. Its only offered as an alternative to buying and then transporting a gallon plastic gas can that is way overpriced at any gas station. Why don't people just say its a good idea, but not for them? I would trust the mylar over a plastic can made as cheaply as possible.
Would duct tape work as a handle? I guess you could always ask the teller for a bag...
Duct tape handle ... now ... that's redneck ... Some bags have an extra corner that is 4 layers thick and you may string a shoelace through it, though I've never tried it myself. I was thinking of a cloth bag when I said it, and those are sorta common in injun housholds, but prolly hard to find in the normal western household.
BTW The redneckiest thing I have ever seen ... absolutely ... was in New york city, messenger types had a set of elephant grips made out of duct tape. Un freaking beliveable.
Franzia is almost the only brand of wine I buy and they all have the same twist type cap and clear translucent bag. I have seen shiny bags with the press type cap and I have experimented standing on those when they were inflated too (vella or some other brand of wine almaden maybe) ... but I gave up on the wne and I dont have the bags at this time (that I remmeber anyway) ... so I guess Franzia (YMMV at your neck of the woods, cos I do believe they can swap them about - after all you're buying wine, not the tap or bag). Maybe Vella has a patent on their tap ??? Dont they write crap about air entry or somehting on their boxes.
MrDan: How would you know I wasn't drinking out of the bag on the way to the gas station ... :icon_mrgreen: ... or for that matter ... back from the gas station ... :thumb: :thumb: ...
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: seshadri_srinath on February 13, 2007, 01:23:34 PM
MrDan: How would you know I wasn't drinking out of the bag on the way to the gas station ... :icon_mrgreen: ... or for that matter ... back from the gas station ... :thumb: :thumb: ...
Cool.
Srinath.
True true .... damn - now I want a drink too. :cheers:
It's not a real argument if Srinath is the only one arguing! Someone fire him up again! :laugh:
Oh well then ... I dont think a wine bag will take your weight Pandy ... if that is your real name ...
And yes the SV is making you look fat ... you should sell it to me for this bag of pork chops ...
OK OK stop the beating, I'll throw in the bag of donuts too.
Cool.
Srinath.
AND I want the bag of wine WITH the wine in it! :mad:
My real name is Srinath, and that means "She who is incoherent 99% of the time" in Indian (if that's really what you are)!
I'll bet your wife has you totally whipped today. You probably bought her chocolate, flowers, cooked her dinner, rubbed her feet....admit it, you're whipped! :icon_mrgreen:
Ok...two people...THAT's an argument! :icon_mrgreen:
OK wine ... OK ... dont now complain I didn't wine and dine ya ... pork rinds and wine ... that's a rimantic donner ... :icon_twisted: ...
Whipped and proud of it maaaam ...
I aint getting any still ... and I am proud of that too ...
I did buy her choclate and champagne ... but well I guess ... its prolly well known at this point ... putting them in the same bottle isn't such a hot idea ...
The name Srinath actually is awfully close to being whipped ... well it is whipped ...
Its means 'The guy who's married to the goddess of wealth" ... AKA ... the mooch.
Cool.
Srinath.
Hey....I *like* pork rinds! :thumb:
Ya' ain't gettin' any WHAT? Younger? :flipoff:
I don't know how your wife stands all those bike bits of yours...ooooooOOoooh...maybe THAT's why you're not gettin' any..... :icon_twisted: