I think they're fabulous in the States. At least in Pennsylvania. There are two ways to earn a licence. One is through the DOT (Department of Transportation) You can go and apply for a learners permit. For a measily $7.00, you can get this and ride by yourself. Only two limitations; no night riding, and no passengers. From there, you take two tests; written and riding. Then you have your licence. There's no waiting time.
The other is get a permit at any notary for closer to $30.00 (give or take a few.) Go the the MSF course, ours in PA consists of two weekends; Friday and Saturday. There are other combos, (Fri./Sun.--Fri./Mon./Tues.) Ride around for a couple of weekends, on 250's, take the easiest written test of your life, and finally a no-challenge riding test, and whalla. License!
-Anti :thumb:
Canada has basically no requirements. If you are 16, you just go down, take a very basic motorcycle written, and wobble around some pylons, stop, and a couple other rudimentary maneuvers. You can do the test on a 125, and then take your shiny new license down to the bike store, and pick up your GSXR1000, Goldwing, new Harley thingie, or even an SV650 for those with self restraint.
I believe the US system is very similar.
When I talk to the guys at the local big box bike stores, they have lots of stories of newbies never making it home on their brand new crotch rocket. Maybe the Canadian system is designed to weed out the gene pool?
I took a MSF course, which consisted of about 6 hours in the classroom and 10 hours riding. Then I had to take a written test, and then I had a license. Right now I agree with my state's system, and am glad I didn't have to buy a 250cc bike. Even with the MSF course I practiced in a parking lot for a couple of weeks before I went on the roads. I am a conservative rider, so I don't really see myself getting into trouble with my GS500, or at least not any trouble I couldn't get into on a 250. Although I've only had my license for about 6 weeks, so maybe time will tell. Personally, I usually am of the opinion that the less government regulation the better. And it seems in general, (of course there are exceptions), a motorcyclist has less chance of hurting or killing other people than a car driver does. I might not be against requiring people under 18 to stick with a smaller bike for a year.
Laura
A good old conservative.
Laura, don't ever change.
-Anti :mrgreen:
There is a lot to be said for weeding out the gene pool. The most common extremity injury on motorcycles is castration ;)
It's not good when some moron hurts an innocent but I have no sympathy for the foolish getting themselves killed. There is something to be said for being TOO protective. If you let it go too far then you end up losing freedom and safety is nothing without freedom.
It's a balencing act that everyone and every nation has to perform. Some people are more willing to sacrifice freedom than others. Here in the USA we value individual freedom very highly. Unfortunately not as highly as we used to and worse yet we've begun to let accountability slip as well.
But this isn't entirely a political post and I don't want to start any flame wars so I'll shut up now ;)
I have to go with Keyzer on this one.
I'm actually quuite interested from an epidemiological standpoint in the differences in motorcycle accidents, severity of injuries, fatalities etc between countries like australia, the UK and here in the US. I am even considereing doing a research paper on the topic.
My first bike was a 180cc Yamaha that i still own and love to death. I learned to ride, repair, and maintain that bike. And i had tons of fun never going above 60.
jake
In queensland, there are 2 ways that someone can get their licence.
There is the way which you described, where you have to putt around on a 250cc for a year.
And then there's the Q-Ride way which was introduced I think about a year ago. Anyone can get there open bike licence (no size restrictions) providing that they have held their open car licence for at least 3 years. This is how I got my licence.
The course goes for three days, and consists of theory and practical. There was one guy there that was riding a brand new R6 and he couldn't even do a U-turn.
I guess it's solely down to the rider to buy and ride a bike to their own ability.
A question for all of the riders in places that limit the engine size/power of a new rider's motorcycle...
Do they restrict new automobile drivers to a sub-compact economy car and then make you buy a larger car a year later? If not, why? What's good for the goose is good for the gander, or so they say.
My first car was a '77 Ford Maverick when I was 16 years old. This was in 1988. 250c.i. straight-6 with a 3-speed on the column. Probably made about 80h.p. on a good day. At the same time, the rich kids in school drove Camaro's, Mustangs, and other sportscars. I assume this is the case in lots of places in the world. A lot of these kids got tons of tickets and caused more than their fair share of accidents. Does your government regulate the size of a new driver's car engine for their safety, or do they discriminate against bikers only?
Quote from: KevinCCanada has basically no requirements. If you are 16, you just go down, take a very basic motorcycle written, and wobble around some pylons, stop, and a couple other rudimentary maneuvers. You can do the test on a 125, and then take your shiny new license down to the bike store, and pick up your GSXR1000, Goldwing, new Harley thingie, or even an SV650 for those with self restraint.
I believe the US system is very similar.
When I talk to the guys at the local big box bike stores, they have lots of stories of newbies never making it home on their brand new crotch rocket. Maybe the Canadian system is designed to weed out the gene pool?
California is very similar with one exception-if you're under 21 you MUST pass the MSF course, then take a written test at DMV to get full M endorsement. If over 21 you can take written test, then wobble around as Kevin says. Getting your M endorsement allows you to ride ANY size bike you want.
Also, you can go take the written test only which gives you a learners permit-only restriction is no night riding, no passengers, no freeways...but otherwise you can ride ANY bike-even go BUY a new gsxr1000 as Kevin says...I think its rediculous.
as someone posted earlier, it really does come down to assesment of risk. with freedom comes risk. but with freedom also comes responsibility. if someone who has never riden before wants to go get their motorcycle license, then go buy a boss hog or a gixxer 1000, by all means go ahead. but that person had better be willing to take responsibilty for their actions on that bike.
the problem with the UK's system of limiting new riders to smaller bikes, is that it takes their freedom, and therefore their responsibility away. do we in the US put ourselves at risk by allowing inexperienced riders (by the way, yes this apllies to many, many other things in everyday life.) to choose when, where and what they ride? absolutly. but by giving people the freedom to make their own decisions, it also gives us, as a society, the right to hold them responsible for those actions.
I agree w/ all that weeding out the gene pool stuff... but unfortunately, giving them that right can have bad consequences for the rest of us. A collision w/ another bike could mess me up... even in a car. And even if I wasn't messed up physically, and I injured or killed a rider, even if it was his fault, I'd have some serious emotional trauma. Licensing, at least in CA, is too easy for motorcycles and a joke for autos. I don't think half the graduates in my MSF class were prepared to share the road. I'm not sure I was ready, and they scored me perfect (whah?!). I'm not saying I've got a better solution - I hate rules as much as the next guy, and I certainly don't want to have to go through more training... It's just scary.
Maybe we should have designated public irresponsible-ass-hole roads, where it would be legal to ride like a squid or drive drunk so they could all smash into each other and make the rest of the roads a better place for the good guys.
Wait... what was the question?
The local DMV changed their policy exactly one week before I went in to be "official" (rode far far too long with no M on the card). The long standing practice for issuing M endorsements was to take the written test, then show up for a "driving test". The driving test consisted of a person with a clip board saying "head down to that stop sign there, go up a couple blocks, circle around and come back and let me know when your done" and they walked back inside the building. Totally random course with ZERO supervision or grading of any sort. If you come back alive, you passed. The new test involved the usual cones in the parking lot arrangement. Suprising to me that the death rate on MC in the states isn't much higher with these licensing requirements.
I also despise the fact that they insist on taking your picture for the license RIGHT after you take off your helmet and the riding test. Full face helmets and beards don't mix well and its a truely horrifying pic! :o
Hey Jake42 I would love to read a paper done on motorcycle crashes and differences in countries, road conditions, speeds, bike type, age, years riding etc.
Thanks for your replies... you guys rock! :thumb:
I will give you an idea of a statistic taken from a leading motorcycle magazine here in Australia:
"48% of motorcycling fatalities occur on bends - 9/10 of these deaths occur when the motorcycle crosses into the lane of the oncoming traffic"
Is that a crazy statistic? that means you can basically halve your chance of death on a motorcycle by not being a squid in the twisties - ride within your and your bikes limit!
Stay Safe
I'd definitely take the German approach to "freedom" (as all the Yanks seem to like to call it) where the license requirements for cars and bikes are much more severe, but then you can have the freedom to drive at a speed you deem safe for the conditions. The drivers on the Autobahn were great to drive with - very disciplined.
The fatal accident rate on German Autobahns is much lower, at unlimited speeds, than in North America with all it's speed limits.
I hate beeing on the road with all these car drivers that get their licenses in a Cracker Jack box. But then I hate people having guns too.
While I agree with the gene pool theory, there is a major downside to all the morons commiting legal suicide on crotch rockets. I would love to have a R6 or a ZX6R or something similar but I can't because insurance would be more than the bike. Because all the dumb asses whos parents think they are perfect, buy them a big car, motorcycle, whatever. Then they do stupid stuff and raise the statistics of people under 25 that are unsafe so Insurance companies raise the rates because we are "unsafe" but in reality its the morons. So now I have the option of buying a YZF6R with insurance running at $4,000yr so thats 350/mo + a 300 payment and gas so thats what $700+ a month just to ride a motorcycle I want to because everyone else is unsafe. no thanks.
I know I would absolutly hate having to ride a 250cc bike for a year because I am big (250lbs, 6'2") but if thats what it would have taken for me to ride, then damit I would have done it, then when I was ready to get a bigger bike I could actually afford it because insurance would be cheaper and the public opinion of MC's would be a better one because little Johnnys brother didnt T-bone a truck after riding a power wheelie down the main street.
[/rant]
Texas is similar to the other states.
You have two choices for a full license (as an adult, don't know about the <18 crowd):
1. Take a written/computer test and a riding test. To do the riding test you must supply a chase car and the bike, which has to be ridden to the testing facility by a licensed rider, who gets his license, insurance, etc. checked. I'm told they make this as much of a hassle as possible so you'll take the MSF instead.
2. Take the MSF (2.5 Days) and the written test. They do test you during the MSF and passing is not certain. The written test mirrors the quizzes in the MSF.
If you want to ride without a helmet, you have to take the MSF, then when you get your license you are allowed to choose to have a helmet exemption. There were several people in my class taking the MSF to get their helmet exemption.
Once you have your license, you can go get yourself the biggest Hawg or Gixxer on the lot. Just show your proof of liability insurance.
Frankly, I'd like to see some restrictions on what you can drive at certain experience levels. I see kids driving huge SUVs that have no idea how to handle them. A couple years in a Dodge Neon won't kill them (or me).
I seriously doubt anything will ever be done in the US to curtail people going out and buying the biggest, fastest thing on the road. Let's face it, where motorcycles are concerned, many people buy one and that's it. It would be bad for business if it had to be a small one. And telling people they can't spend $40,000 on a Suburban, why that's un-American. Money talks in the US government(s), anything that restricts how much the consumer spends is quickly squelched as being bad for the economy.
Oops, didn't notice that soapbox there, I'll get off now. :oops:
Holy MF how easy it is for all of you...
Here in Estonia you must be at least 21years old to ride a bike with more than 25Kw or have at least two or more years of bike riding experience.
To get you license at all you must ride for 20hours total (20x1h) + one month theoretical courses (about 60hours)... this takes about three months total to start riding at all. And you have to pass 2x2 riding tests and 2x2 theoretical tests including firstaid couses an stuff like that...
All that will cost you "only" 400$ but as our average income is below 500$ per month that is a lot of money, for me at least.
You are so lucky...
QuoteHere in Estonia you must be at least 21years old to ride a bike with more than 25Kw or have at least two or more years of bike riding experience.
Tere Toenis! Kuidas sa elad? :) Ma armastan Eestimaa! :cheers:
As it was stated earlier, here in Canada it's painfully easy to get your lisence. I even knew of a person who actually fell while taking their test and they still passed. :?
To make matters worse, you have dealers (or at least dealer) around where I am who have no ethics at all. When I was looking to buy my first streetbike, the owner of one of the local shops was trying very hard to sell me a Fireblade. :o "You'd be fine on that" he said :bs:
John
I went to the DMV and said I would like my motorcycle endorsement. They told me to answer the 25 questions on the written test. I had to get 20 correct in order to pass. I got 22 right. Then off to the riding portion. The DMV guy/gal follows you to your bike. Present him/her with your proof of insurance, registration, inspection sticker (brake tag). Start bike. Display brake lights, turn signals, etc. Exit west end of parking lot. Turn right. Enter North end of parking lot. Park bike wherever you want. If you made it back alive and in one piece, you now have a motorcycle licence.
The thing that gets us here is that you cannot get an endorsement without proof of insurance. But you cannot get insurance without the endorsement. :bs: I have insurance through Progressive and they will grant you a few days to get the endorsement and bring it in to them, but many companies will not do this. You have to borrow a motorcycle to use on the test. If you can't do this, you are screwed.
Dave, I completely agree with everything you wrote. Also, as far as trying to sell inappropriate bikes to beginners, I agree that it is irresponsible. Unfortunately, in the US there really aren't many choices of beginner bikes, especially if you don't want a dual purpose or a cruiser. I would have preferred to buy a new motorcycle, but the only new 500cc I could find was a Ninja. I suppose if we had more regulations, we might have more of a choice in beginner bikes. I'm glad we don't have more regulations, though. I'm also glad I didn't have to spend a lot of money to get a motorcycle license. I think my MSF class was about $70, and the DMV fees were about $20.
Laura
I've never understood this "responsible for your own safety" arguement. People just are not that smart or aware to possibly do that on a continuous basis. We all rely on balconies not to collapse, elevators not to fall, food and water to be safe, all through legislation and government inspections. There is no way any of us can continuously evaluate whether a building stucture is sound, or that a microwave dinner is being prepared safely.
I would like to be able to ride down the road with some assurance that the big hunks of sheet metal all around me won't do strange things and try to kill me. The only way to come close to that is through driver training and legislation.
Or maybe we need heat rays on our motorcycles, so we can enforce the rules of the road and protect ourselves?
QuoteSorry to say this but new riders suck! Generally people new at anything suck!
thats bollocks. i am a new rider in the U.K i am 17 and restricted to a 33bhp for 2 years. your comment on new rider suck is bogus. if you check out the stats you will find that its old peeps who used to ride a bike when they were 20 and then stopped for 20 years then fancied another go then cant handel it and run into the side of a bus :cry: . i no i am inexperenced but it dont mean i suck.
here in england if you are under 21 you can get a full lisence and ride a 3bhp for 2 year then ride anything. if your over 21 you can pass your test and then buy a gsx r1000 :lol: if you want. i think it should be the same for everyone cos bike are deadly.
QuoteWe all rely on balconies not to collapse, elevators not to fall, food and water to be safe, all through legislation and government inspections.
QuoteI would like to be able to ride down the road with some assurance that the big hunks of sheet metal all around me won't do strange things and try to kill me. The only way to come close to that is through driver training and legislation.
Cars and motorcycles also go through government inspections as well to be deemed safe on the road.
The key issue is neglegence. People who drive cars and bikes dangerously are the issue. Food is easily contaminated by a careless cook, yet there is no government mandated licensing for chefs and burger-flippers.
Chill out man, I'm sure they didn't mean sucks in a bad way, but how many times did you fall down when you learned how to walk? How many times did you put your foot down in a turn because it *felt* like you were going to fall? how many times....... get the point. I agree that if someone were to find a good buddy to teach them how to ride *SAFELY* then we woulden't need any regulation, but what about the people that are too arrogant to get help and end up in debt from hospital bills, or DEAD? And yes there are a few prodigy people out there but just because you can ride a bicycle doesn't mean you can ride a GSXR1000. Everyday I think I dont need training in this, in that, but really I do. Take this extreem example. I want to get my Skydiving license and feel as though I already know how to skydive (done 1 tandem) so I think I could handle it without a problem. So what if I go to a dropzone and say, "oh yeah I've jumped off some pretty high diving boards, and went bungie jumping, so no problem" then jump out of the plane and splat! EVERYONE NEEDS TRAINING NO MATTER WHAT IT IS. :thumb:
Quote from: 2ride4life7
if you check out the stats you will find that its old peeps who used to ride a bike when they were 20 and then stopped for 20 years then fancied another go then cant handel it and run into the side of a bus.
Ah, actually you better check the stats.
That was a story that went around, when they noticed there was more older riders having accidents. What they failed to take into account at the time was that there was also a recent large increase in the number of older riders. When they re-did the statistics to take into account the actual present rider age distribution, it is still the young guys eating it on bikes by a huge margin.
Yes, I am an old guy who started riding bikes again. I also race, and kick lots of young guys asses, on a bike with 50% less power than they have.
Learining to ride a motorcycle isn't easy, and new riders are very vulnerable. It used to be (in NA) you had a 90% or so chance of having an accident in your first 10,000 miles. Not sure if that still holds.
I would agree with 2ride4life that regulations should be the same for everyone, regardless of age. Governments commonly equate age with experience or maturity but that is rarely the case. If you're over 21, that just means that you're more likely to drink and ride your motorcycle than someone under 21.
However I would also say that new riders do generally suck. It's the nature of being new at things. No one jumps on a bike for the first time and goes off scraping pegs while maintaining a safe riding style. It inherently can't happen because you don't know the limits of the machine you're on. The prodigies that are good at stuff the first time they try it are a very non-significant percentage of the population (statistcally speaking anyway). So generally, people that are new at things suck at them, maybe not terribly, but their much more likely to make a mistake due to lack of knowledge and experience. People that give up riding and come back are the same way. They may remember how to ride, but they don't know the limits of their machine very well.
On the subject of restricting engine size of the newbie rider (sorry I'm an opinionated guy) I'm more on the side of freedom of choice. A newbie that will try wheelies and stoppies on a 650 or 1000cc bike will try them on a 250cc machine as well. In some ways its good to restrict engine size, but I think it may give people a false sense of security. It tells them that the 250's not dangerous because they let me ride it, whilethe 650 is because I can't touch it. Then they're more likely to push their limits because they think they'll be okay on a 250. I guess basically what I'm saying is that it doesn't take a 1000cc bike to run into the back of a car, pull into traffic, lanesplit, highside, lowside, ....etc. All those things can be done on any size bike. You can't make someone respect their bike by limiting its size, they either do or they don't. If they don't, you'll know because they'll be the ones you hear about on the news.
John L.
Quote from: joev
Cars and motorcycles also go through government inspections as well to be deemed safe on the road.
The key issue is neglegence. People who drive cars and bikes dangerously are the issue. Food is easily contaminated by a careless cook, yet there is no government mandated licensing for chefs and burger-flippers.
In most of North America, vehicle inspections are cursory or non-existent.
But that wasn't my point. Most drivers in NA don't even know they are dangerous, or what proper driving habist are. They have no training or testing to speak of.
Even buger joint kitchens are inspected regularly for safe food practices. I would be pleased if drivers were as well controlled as burger flippers.
In South Carolina:
If you do not have a licence of any type from the state you will need to prove who you are in the form of a birth certificate, social sercurity card and other info.
If you have a current drivers licence you will first apply for a motorcycle permit which will require you to pass an eye exam and a written test and if you pass they will give you a new picture id that is your motorcycle permit. The permit is good for 6 months and only allows to to ride during daylight hours and does not allow you to ride a passenger.
If you are under 18 years of age you must wear a helmet in South Carolina and if you are over 18 then it is a right to die State in that you are not required to wear a helmet.
At anytime during the 6 month pemit period you can go back to the DMV and take the road course test and at least at my DMV you can go out on the course to practice anytime that the DMV is open.
The road course is a bunch of orange saftey cones set up in a pattern that so that you can be tested on your ability to do low speed turns without putting your feet down or stalling the bike. They also make you do a couple of braking test to see if you know how to use the brakes.
Once you pass the test they issue you a new licence that shows that you are permitted to ride a motorcycle.
As for what size bike you can start out with that is up to the rider. You can go out and buya moped or a GSX1300R.
As for myself when I started riding there were no limitations on a permit as to when I could use the bike and the permit was good for one year and due to my job at the time and how I worked the the same hours as the DMV I managed to ride on a permit for close to four years in which time I racked up close to 60,000 miles on my bikes. Everytime I went by the DMV on my lunh break either there were a couple of raod test in front of me or they had not set up the course for that day so I just had my permit extended.
It's true that the same person that would do wheelies on a 1000cc bike would do them on a 250cc. But he would be doing them from a standstill, and not at 100+MPH on the interstate. Plus, one needs to lear throttle control, especially in turns. That is one of the biggest newbie mistakes. I know it was one of mine. Something unexpected somes up and you panic. Panic on a GS500 or Nina 250 does not net the same results as the same reaction on a GSXR1000.
I agree that there is a huge power difference between a 250 and a 1000, but I also don't think that a newbie is going to try wheelies at 100+mph on the interstate. If they do, they deserve what they get because that's just dumb and the world's a safer place without them. I would also agree that throttle control is a major issue and that panic on a big bike is much different than panic on a smaller bike. That is one of the reasons that I think restricting engine size CAN be a good thing. However I'm still against it because if you put more effort into teaching someone how to ride their bike safely and correctly, then they'll treat a 250 in a similar manner as a 1000. For those people that are going to try 100mph wheelies right outta the box...hopefully educating them about motorcycles and safety would deter that, but I would doubt it.
Personally I am a safe rider. I haven't taken a MSF course, but I have been riding for a couple years without any accidents or moving drops (knock on wood *knock knock*). I take safety on motorcycles seriously as does everyone on this message board. I watch the sides of the roads for obstacles or possible hazards, I'm careful at intersections to make sure it's clear before I go, I think about the best ways out of possible bad situations,.....I could go on. My point is that I, like everyone else here, take riding seriously. It would be a shame to make us ride a bike that we wouldn't really want because some people are too stubborn/dumb/unconcerned to be responsible.
John L.
Quote from: KevinCI'd definitely take the German approach to "freedom" (as all the Yanks seem to like to call it) where the license requirements for cars and bikes are much more severe, but then you can have the freedom to drive at a speed you deem safe for the conditions. The drivers on the Autobahn were great to drive with - very disciplined.
The fatal accident rate on German Autobahns is much lower, at unlimited speeds, than in North America with all it's speed limits...
now this, at least in theory, isn't such a bad idea. go ahead, make it more dificult for people to get their license. but when you do, recognize that, now that they have it, they're able to make decisions about speed, type of motorcycle etc.. on their own.
there are problems with it of course. especially if the US tried to
switch to this system. but it certainly has it's merits.
2ride4life7 wrote:
Quoteyour comment on new rider suck is bogus
JeffD wrote:
QuoteChill out man, I'm sure they didn't mean sucks in a bad way
No actually I did mean suck in a bad way. But it should not cause offence because everyone was a new rider... anyone who thinks that they were a great rider when they first threw their leg over a bike is kidding themselves - AND PEOPLE NEED TO BE TOLD - 2ride4life7 your 17 man I am only 23 we still need years and years more on a bike and even then we can learn more. Im not flaming you dude its just advise that I have gained from experience - I thought I was hot shaZam! when I got on my Honda F4i until I took it to the track and people made a fool of me by lapping me time and time again, I thought there was something wrong with my bike - nothing wrong with my bike just my ability!
There is no place to hide on a track - talk it up as much as you like on the street!
I got my ass kicked by a 50 year old guy on a 50 year old bike through 30km's of twisties when I had my F4i... I had been riding for 2 years, he had been riding for 30 years, I had no chance! Im not ashamed to say it, I still suck and have been riding for 4 years now... just because I have no chicken strips and can mono and do a stoppy dosent mean I can use my front brakes in turns or slide the ass of my bike into corners like MOTOGP.
Anyway - its good to see that most people see the need for strong laws and feel that new riders wether they are 17 or 70 need help and are at risk of killing themselves!
Stay Safe
Quote from: mrslush50Quote from: KevinCI'd definitely take the German approach to "freedom" (as all the Yanks seem to like to call it) where the license requirements for cars and bikes are much more severe, but then you can have the freedom to drive at a speed you deem safe for the conditions. The drivers on the Autobahn were great to drive with - very disciplined.
The fatal accident rate on German Autobahns is much lower, at unlimited speeds, than in North America with all it's speed limits...
now this, at least in theory, isn't such a bad idea. go ahead, make it more dificult for people to get their license. but when you do, recognize that, now that they have it, they're able to make decisions about speed, type of motorcycle etc.. on their own.
The US has too many so-called "freedoms" for the Autobahn idewa to work here. For instance, the "freedom" to eat a Taco Bell Burrito while talking on the cell phone and yelling at 4 screming brats in the back seat. As long as we have people like this on the highways, you will never have any other form of disciplined driving.
there are problems with it of course. especially if the US tried to switch to this system. but it certainly has it's merits.
personally i think being restricted to a certain engine size would be great....if companies actually did some r&d on 250's and such imagine how much of a hoot they would be to ride! i bet sooner or later someone would make a 250cc racing class and it wouldnt be crazy for a privateer to have some chance against the factories (or at least be scouted by one)
regardless of age, i think one should be completely comfortable in any situation on a bike to be able to move up...i was going to get a 250 ninja as my first bike bc i thought the gs was too big! the ninja is like 300lb dry and is just as fast as the gs (i think)
i think new riders should be restricted to 250cc's for at least a year unless you wanna take a super-hard and expensive road test to bypass the restrictions (for all those who rode dirtbikes since they learned to walk)
then u should take a road test every time you want to move up in cc's
thats just my opinion tho.....
Quote from: pauiif companies actually did some r&d on 250's and such imagine how much of a hoot they would be to ride! i bet sooner or later someone would make a 250cc racing class and it wouldnt be crazy for a privateer to have some chance against the factories (or at least be scouted by one)...
You should check out the 125 and 250 cc GP racing that the rest of the world does. Admittedly they are 2 strokes at the moment, but is great racing. Privateers still don't do that well against the factory teams, who hire the best riders and have the best equipment, but there may be a few more private teams.
There are some very cool small bikes available outside North America. They don't bring them here, because there is no market.
The 250 AMA class is being shut down this year I believe.
is they made sporty 4 stroke 250's in the USA id be all over them in a second.....i have a feeling 2 strokes arent so reliable and theyre not too welcome in our country anyway...
Ahh yes, we only allow gas guzzling SUVs in NA....
Actually, there are some pretty awesome 400 cc, 4 stroke race reps available in Japan. Some of them are imported to NA by:
http://www.greybike.com/index.html
Not too much there at the moment, but the Japanese import FZR400 might be cool.
Just to interrupt the displacement talk for a moment...
Here in NY the MSF basic rider skills course costs $300-400! :o
I would like to take this course as soon as possible, so I could learn safe riding skills my friend might not remember to tell me. Sure, I get my license after I take the course, but I think it would be better to have all riders educated, rather than reaming us poor people out of our money. :x
Too many people just pass their written test and off they go on the baddest bike they can get their hands on. I'm glad I bought my GS instead of a 600cc so I don't bite off more than I can chew while learning.
my msf is scheduled for the weekend of aug 1-3 at queens community college and it cost a whopping $385!
i think my friend took it near roosevelt field mall and paid like 300
i think qcc is more expensive bc its in "New york City" as in the 5 boroughs....sucks......at least its a block from my gf's house....
Here it's $370 and I think they add on a $10 charge for something useless. I was thinking about going upstate for a weekend and take the course there, but prices aren't low enough to make it worthwhile. Oh well, I can wait, I'll be overseas for next month with no motorcycle.
Licensing here in Michigan is similar to the rest of the US - basically if you can stand upright & find your butt with both hands you're in like Flint.
I have been riding for over 30 years, so things like MSF were far in the future when I got my license. I have always been of the opinion that a system similar to that in Germany or Japan would be a good idea. I also think that car licenses should be more difficult to get, too. Freedom does not equal the right to avoid proper & sufficient training, IMHO. For example, if I'm ever in the position of needing the services of medical personnel, I can be pretty sure the person I'm depending on will have had significant training on the use of that bone saw (or whatever implement is called for) that he/she is coming at me with. Well, a 4000 pound car or even a 400 pound motorcycle is easily as potentially damaging in incompetent hands as that bone saw. I wish people would more often consider the potential lethality of the vehicle they are in control of, whether it has 2 wheels or 4. I see far more people doing dangerous things in cars than I do on bikes, so I think maybe bikers have a little better understanding of their vulnerability, but until everybody limits their brain-off riding (or driving) to controlled situations in which risks are limited, i.e., a race track or similar, then I'll continue to vote for extensive training before turning someone loose on public streets.
BTW, I have said many times that it's nothing short of a miracle that I survived to see my 21st birthday - when I was young I griped about the restrictions (what few there were!) on licensing & such, but now I look back & think that with what little restrictions there were my survival must be nothing but providence.
Life is fragile.
My last comment is this: Ride as much as you can & enjoy it for all it's worth, but make sure you ride well within your limits & consider the ramifications of your actions - for yourself or others.
bob