when i put on the katana front end i want to relocate the ignition and put by me left leg. has anyone done thi sbefore and how hard is it? any pics?
Seems simple enough. Except A. Where are you gonna run the wires, and B. how/where are you actually gonna mount it?
I've been thinking about removing my ignition and making it magnetic. I.e., I carry a magnetic key fob. Put the magnet in place, it pulls a switch closed, and the bike can start/run. Pull the key fob off, switch falls open, no more current, bike doesn't run. Dunno how practical it is, but I think it'd be neat, and it's MY bike... Just gotta figure out what kind of switch to use..
im thinking of running the wires along the inside of the frame and making a small black bracket to hold the switch and putting a small box on the back to cover the switch and the wires the wires will be held in place by a small square plastic piece that has waterproof tape on the back. we use in on all our units at work and it work good. as far as mounting the bracket to the frame i will drill two holes in the frame and install some 10/32 inserts in the frame and go from their.
I fscking hate keys. Keys for cars/boats/sheds/bikes/houses/friends'houses/etc suck. I love the idea of some kind of keyfob that turns on the ignition. I really DONT like the idea of hitting a bump and the bike dying though.
I have some super-duper-strong magnets that I keep on the bar just close to the ignition myself. They have a 20lb pull or so. It will HURT if you snap two of them together and get any skin in between. I guess that would be enough to keep them in place. (I keep the mag's there to hold driving directions)
If you find something that is mass produced or monkey/backyard produced hit me. I'm interested in whatever you come across to illiminate the need for another damned key.
:)
Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on February 21, 2007, 05:04:16 PM
Seems simple enough. Except A. Where are you gonna run the wires, and B. how/where are you actually gonna mount it?
I've been thinking about removing my ignition and making it magnetic. I.e., I carry a magnetic key fob. Put the magnet in place, it pulls a switch closed, and the bike can start/run. Pull the key fob off, switch falls open, no more current, bike doesn't run. Dunno how practical it is, but I think it'd be neat, and it's MY bike... Just gotta figure out what kind of switch to use..
I agree ohgood. I was thinking about playing with an RFID tag, but wasn't sure of the operable range on them. I wanted something that I could theoretically just keep in my pocket and never even take out. But again, not sure of the range. I'll let you know if I come up with something. It won't be fore a few months, though.
RFID may not be such a good idea without some forethought. The range is sufficient, but what if you're tooling along and all of a sudden you're in a high-noise area or a nearby car causes sufficient multipath interference and it loses communication? Is your bike just going to quit running?
Interesting idea, but implementation will be tricky.
Quote from: Egaeus on February 22, 2007, 01:40:14 PM
RFID may not be such a good idea without some forethought. The range is sufficient, but what if you're tooling along and all of a sudden you're in a high-noise area or a nearby car causes sufficient multipath interference and it loses communication? Is your bike just going to quit running?
Interesting idea, but implementation will be tricky.
I thought much of the commercial RFID that's used had an effective range of less than a foot. Something like a corporate application (like to get in to an office building/garage) would probably be able to do this ... although I really have no idea how other things can interfere.
Ignoring the ignition for a moment, I'd always thought it would be cool to do something similar for the gas cap/ helmet lock - would be nice not to need the keys for that. And I'd like to do something similar at my new house since I'll have a fenced yard where I can store the bike - just need to figure out a way to get through the door without having to get off the bike (in case the ground is soft)
im definatley intersted in this RF-id idea, it would be awsome to have a "key" tag on my neck or a chip in my wallet (so i dont forget my licence) I heard somewhere that they were trying to use RF-id on freeways in the little bumpy reflectors so cars could drive themselves or stay in thier lanes or something along the lines of cruise control.
when I bought my bike it had some key made by home depot or something its huge, I havent got around to going to a stealership to get a suzuki key made. Im definatley interested in ideas to bypass the key, magnet RF-id ect. lets make a kit and sell it.
Nepix
Mr. Dan, vortex makes keyless gas caps, for track bikes, I'm fairly certain there's a model that would fit our bikes (They're probably kinda expensive though). I'm pretty sure I saw one on ebay, I'll see what I can find.
Egaeus, the interference thing was exactly why I decided magnetics might be a better way to go, because nothing's going to interfere with a 20lb pull magnet stuck to my top triple.
Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on February 22, 2007, 01:59:47 PM
Mr. Dan, vortex makes keyless gas caps, for track bikes, I'm fairly certain there's a model that would fit our bikes (They're probably kinda expensive though). I'm pretty sure I saw one on ebay, I'll see what I can find.
Egaeus, the interference thing was exactly why I decided magnetics might be a better way to go, because nothing's going to interfere with a 20lb pull magnet stuck to my top triple.
But if you're going to do that, Just use a key. :icon_mrgreen:
QuoteI agree ohgood. I was thinking about playing with an RFID tag, but wasn't sure of the operable range on them. I wanted something that I could theoretically just keep in my pocket and never even take out. But again, not sure of the range. I'll let you know if I come up with something. It won't be fore a few months, though.
I rode in a friend's Prius and it dosen't have a key, but rather a fob or something so as long as the fob is in or near the car, you just push the start button and away it goes. I don't think that's worth the expense on or cheap bikes but it would be cool.
A simpler idea, is just hide a little togle switch somewhere and use that instead of a key. I had a bike and the ignition switch started falling apart so I just put a little toggle switch under the tank and it worked fine and never got stolen.
Quote from: ducati_nolan on February 22, 2007, 02:04:57 PM
QuoteI agree ohgood. I was thinking about playing with an RFID tag, but wasn't sure of the operable range on them. I wanted something that I could theoretically just keep in my pocket and never even take out. But again, not sure of the range. I'll let you know if I come up with something. It won't be fore a few months, though.
I rode in a friend's Prius and it dosen't have a key, but rather a fob or something so as long as the fob is in or near the car, you just push the start button and away it goes. I don't think that's worth the expense on or cheap bikes but it would be cool.
Yeah, I was just thinking of that. If they're secure enough to unlock your car, why not just put a start button on it. But then I thought of how much it costs to get them replaced, which is a significant fraction of the cost of our bike, and I don't know where you'd get such a thing aftermarket.
Or in other words, +1.
Quote from: ducati_nolan on February 22, 2007, 02:04:57 PM
A simpler idea, is just hide a little togle switch somewhere and use that instead of a key. I had a bike and the ignition switch started falling apart so I just put a little toggle switch under the tank and it worked fine and never got stolen.
How would that work? My brain can't wrap itself around that at the moment.
The RFID tag is a cool idea, another problem that I can think of other then interference is hackers. Then again, I doubt they would guess that a gs500 would have RFID.
Quote from: Egaeus on February 22, 2007, 01:40:14 PM
RFID may not be such a good idea without some forethought. The range is sufficient, but what if you're tooling along and all of a sudden you're in a high-noise area or a nearby car causes sufficient multipath interference and it loses communication? Is your bike just going to quit running?
Interesting idea, but implementation will be tricky.
Umm... just make the key necessary for starting. When the engine is shut off, then you have to use the key again. Problem solved.
Quote from: MrDan on February 22, 2007, 04:30:09 PM
Quote from: ducati_nolan on February 22, 2007, 02:04:57 PM
A simpler idea, is just hide a little togle switch somewhere and use that instead of a key. I had a bike and the ignition switch started falling apart so I just put a little toggle switch under the tank and it worked fine and never got stolen.
How would that work? My brain can't wrap itself around that at the moment.
Err.. it's pretty simple. The ignition lock is basically a switch, right? It's just you can only flip the switch with the key in it. When you turn the key on, you complete the electrical circuit that lets the bike work. So you can just replace that switch with, you know, an actual switch (http://www.sayal.com/images_s/Switch/TOGGLE/toggle.jpg). Anyone could turn the bike on by flipping the switch, but most people wouldn't know that.
QuoteAnyone could turn the bike on by flipping the switch, but most people wouldn't know that.
I know the toggle switch isn't exactly the highest security option, but bikes are so easy to steal anyways that it really dosen't matter. All it takes is a pickup/van, two guys and about 10 seconds.
Yeah, the toggle was another thought of mine, but the security thing was my issue. I knew a guy on the corvette forums who ran a killswitch to his cigarette lighter. If he pushed the lighter in, it completed the circuit, and the car ran. Pop it out, and the car won't run. Again, who'd guess a toggle switch on a gs500... definitely easier than RFID or magnetics... just gotta think of a convenient place to mount it, out of the way...
can anyone get a wiring diagram showing where the toggle switch will be i might do this but i dont wanna dig into it without a game plan.
(http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a172/bluebellylint/Bike/Color_WiringDiagram.jpg)
The ignition switch is middle top. It looks like you would need a "Double pole, single throw" switch.
Quote from: Chuck on February 22, 2007, 05:20:02 PM
Quote from: Egaeus on February 22, 2007, 01:40:14 PM
RFID may not be such a good idea without some forethought. The range is sufficient, but what if you're tooling along and all of a sudden you're in a high-noise area or a nearby car causes sufficient multipath interference and it loses communication? Is your bike just going to quit running?
Interesting idea, but implementation will be tricky.
Umm... just make the key necessary for starting. When the engine is shut off, then you have to use the key again. Problem solved.
Except that the need for a key is undesirable in NGFL's case. That would eliminate the convenience.
Quote from: Egaeus on February 22, 2007, 07:46:22 PM
Quote from: Chuck on February 22, 2007, 05:20:02 PM
Quote from: Egaeus on February 22, 2007, 01:40:14 PM
RFID may not be such a good idea without some forethought. The range is sufficient, but what if you're tooling along and all of a sudden you're in a high-noise area or a nearby car causes sufficient multipath interference and it loses communication? Is your bike just going to quit running?
Interesting idea, but implementation will be tricky.
Umm... just make the key necessary for starting. When the engine is shut off, then you have to use the key again. Problem solved.
Except that the need for a key is undesirable in NGFL's case. That would eliminate the convenience.
Except if you were paying attention, even to the text that you quoted, you'd note that the key is an RFID key.
Quote from: Crash-n-Burn on February 22, 2007, 04:40:46 PM
The RFID tag is a cool idea, another problem that I can think of other then interference is hackers. Then again, I doubt they would guess that a gs500 would have RFID.
Crackers don't generally go after heavy and possibly deadly things like motorbikes. They like data, and proof THEY cracked something. braggin rights from a challenge. Besides, they'd have to GO OUTSIDE to steal your bike, and the basement is much more comfortable at mom's house. ;)
Now then, with enough heads googling about, someone will hit a link or three about keyless ignition. Maybe find a batch of overstocked switches on eBay or craigslist ? Keep hunting about, someone needs to unload something relevant... me hopes.
Quote from: aaronstj on February 22, 2007, 05:37:01 PM
Quote from: MrDan on February 22, 2007, 04:30:09 PM
Quote from: ducati_nolan on February 22, 2007, 02:04:57 PM
A simpler idea, is just hide a little togle switch somewhere and use that instead of a key. I had a bike and the ignition switch started falling apart so I just put a little toggle switch under the tank and it worked fine and never got stolen.
How would that work? My brain can't wrap itself around that at the moment.
Err.. it's pretty simple. The ignition lock is basically a switch, right? It's just you can only flip the switch with the key in it. When you turn the key on, you complete the electrical circuit that lets the bike work. So you can just replace that switch with, you know, an actual switch (http://www.sayal.com/images_s/Switch/TOGGLE/toggle.jpg). Anyone could turn the bike on by flipping the switch, but most people wouldn't know that.
Yup - my mental malfunction. I think this would be an awesome thing to add. Might actually be cool to do a two stage setup where you have a hidden toggle AND a nice little Starter Button :) Overkill but then again, I have an old mounted car phone that I was thinking of putting on the bike just to mess with cagers haha
I too have seen many new cars using this signal key system. You have to be pretty much stood next to the car and it will allow you to unlock the doors and start the engine. You get out of the car, walk a foot or so away and its locked. The problems they have thought of is the slightly security issue, if your not paying attention someone could jump in your car and drive off if you were stood next to it with your back turned. However soon as they hit the gas and sped away the key would be out of range and the engine cut out. The other problem is theft of something in the car while ur stood next to it. But if you have central locking you would probably have unlocked your car by the time you got to it, just as the key fob would do. So its really no difference. For the absolute best system i would say that this is the best way to go. However like egaeus said its bound to be costly. but who knows.
Well, they make RFID tags along with USB adapters for computers. So that as soon as you walk up to your desktop, it's unlocked, but if you walk away to use the restroom or whatever, it locks automatically. I thought about trying to retrofit one of those...
Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on February 23, 2007, 12:04:14 PM
Well, they make RFID tags along with USB adapters for computers. So that as soon as you walk up to your desktop, it's unlocked, but if you walk away to use the restroom or whatever, it locks automatically. I thought about trying to retrofit one of those...
Was just looking at those on ThinkGeek last night (and they happen to be about 5 minutes away from me). That could be cool.
the onyl doenside to having a keyless electrical ignition is it malfunctioning and your miles away from home then your stuck with no ride home i guess you can add a manuel overide somewhere in case of malfuntion but thats alot of work. the toggle is the same way if the toggle craps out then your stuck but with that you can get a jumper(with inline fuse) kepp it in your tool bag under the seat and it the swith goes bad just jump the wires and start your bike. im sorry if this didnt make sense im very tired its been a looooooooooooooong day.
But you can have problems with your ignition. I can think of plenty, some of which have happened to me. Key breaks or gets bent, doesn't fit, malfunction in the wiring, water gets in and depending on weather either freezes the ignition shut or rusts the inside and it seizes up. You have problems with everything, i think there are far less problems with rfid and toggle switch than ignition.
Quote from: Chuck on February 23, 2007, 08:41:30 AM
Quote from: Egaeus on February 22, 2007, 07:46:22 PM
Quote from: Chuck on February 22, 2007, 05:20:02 PM
Quote from: Egaeus on February 22, 2007, 01:40:14 PM
RFID may not be such a good idea without some forethought. The range is sufficient, but what if you're tooling along and all of a sudden you're in a high-noise area or a nearby car causes sufficient multipath interference and it loses communication? Is your bike just going to quit running?
Interesting idea, but implementation will be tricky.
Umm... just make the key necessary for starting. When the engine is shut off, then you have to use the key again. Problem solved.
Except that the need for a key is undesirable in NGFL's case. That would eliminate the convenience.
Except if you were paying attention, even to the text that you quoted, you'd note that the key is an RFID key.
1. Did you read what you wrote?
The key? Maybe you need to pay attention.
2. If the key is only necessary for starting, you bike is easily stolen. You can start the bike with a screwdriver or any other piece of metal once the key is on. You simply have to bypass the switch in the starter.
It's called context, dude. It's how things make sense based on the things that were said before it.
And how, exactly, do you use an RFID key. You don't. You simply have it. That's the point. Now, in the context of vehicles, using a key implies putting it in the ignition and turning.
So when you have it, the machine starts for you. If you don't have it, the machine doesn't start. w00t. My point was making having the RFID key (or tag, if key is too confusing) a condition for starting (instead of running) you avoid the dangerous situation where the engine quits because of radio interference masking the key/tag temporarily. When you shut off the engine (using the kill switch on the handlebar) then the engine is off until the presence of the RFID key/tag enables the engine to be turned on again. I can make a flow chart if it's still confusing.
they guy I got my front end from had completly bypassed the ignition key unit & replaced it with a small rubber button. Much like the switch that was mentioned above.
Flip the killswitch, push the buttin, & the bike would start. You're basically hotwiring the bike but putting in a switch/starter button. I suppose you could mount the button somewhere hidden.
I've considered doing something like this, but what's the point when you gotta carry the key around anyways to get into the undertail :dunno_white:
I've had no problems whatsoever with the stock ignition; except that I have to remount it now.
Quote from: Chuck on February 24, 2007, 09:51:39 AM
So when you have it, the machine starts for you. If you don't have it, the machine doesn't start. w00t. My point was making having the RFID key (or tag, if key is too confusing) a condition for starting (instead of running) you avoid the dangerous situation where the engine quits because of radio interference masking the key/tag temporarily. When you shut off the engine (using the kill switch on the handlebar) then the engine is off until the presence of the RFID key/tag enables the engine to be turned on again. I can make a flow chart if it's still confusing.
I completely understand what you mean, but you're the one being a duck. I read what you wrote, and you got all pissed when you were the one failing the whole context thing. And again, you did not explain what you meant.
Quote from: Chuck on February 22, 2007, 05:20:02 PM
Umm... just make the key necessary for starting. When the engine is shut off, then you have to use the key again.
Putting aside your use of
use the key for a minutes, your post suggests that the RFID tag enables the starter. Problem is that the starting system can be bypassed. If that's not what you meant, you should have been clearer.
Sticks and stones, my friend. I don't know what makes you think I'm pissed. I'm not, even though you called me a duck. Life's too short to worry about what some bloke on the internet thinks of me. Whatever, transference I guess. But imagine if you will that the presence of an RFID key is necessary to move the kill switch to the on position (electrically of course, you can always move the switch with your hand), but it will stay there until it's manually switched off. However, once it's switched off, the key is again needed to turn it on again. With the kill switch off, you'll have a hard time starting the engine by any means, and if you can, you could have circumvented the lame stock ignition switch anyway. For the sake of avoiding confusion, since the mechanical ignition key has been removed from the scenario, any mention of the word key, other than in this sentence, refers to an electronic RFID key. I'm really sorry I wasn't clearer this is what I meant before. I was just jabbing an idea out there figuring anyone actually interested in doing it would be able to fill in the blanks. I'll buy you a beer some day to prove I'm not a duck, I promise.
so - threw out my back today so beer and drugs may be talking .. but something just crystalized for me - couldn't this be done like on a jet ski? where you have a "key" that holds the actual ignition connect (assuming i understand it correcly) open ...
that would prevent the problem of a bump knocking the "key" loose . and if it also had the frid function .. then using a paperclip (or whatever) to hold the post up (again - jet ski like) wouldn't do it
hope that makes sense .. i can barely see the monitor :cheers:
I like Chuck's idea of using the RFID to enable the starter.. not sure how to do it though.. I'll ponder and get back to you guys...
Quote from: Chuck on February 25, 2007, 07:39:53 PM
Sticks and stones, my friend. I don't know what makes you think I'm pissed. I'm not, even though you called me a duck. Life's too short to worry about what some bloke on the internet thinks of me. Whatever, transference I guess. But imagine if you will that the presence of an RFID key is necessary to move the kill switch to the on position (electrically of course, you can always move the switch with your hand), but it will stay there until it's manually switched off. However, once it's switched off, the key is again needed to turn it on again. With the kill switch off, you'll have a hard time starting the engine by any means, and if you can, you could have circumvented the lame stock ignition switch anyway. For the sake of avoiding confusion, since the mechanical ignition key has been removed from the scenario, any mention of the word key, other than in this sentence, refers to an electronic RFID key. I'm really sorry I wasn't clearer this is what I meant before. I was just jabbing an idea out there figuring anyone actually interested in doing it would be able to fill in the blanks. I'll buy you a beer some day to prove I'm not a duck, I promise.
Saying, "I meant the RFID key" is not being a duck. Saying "Well, if you paid attention" is. No hard feelings.
Here's something to think about. I work in the alarm industry and one thing we can get our hands on is called a corby keypad. Basically it's an electronic touchpad that looks kinda like a telephone number pad. You can wire it up in place of the "keyswitch" in conjunction with an on/off switch and a start button/switch. You flip the on/off switch to provide power to the keypad, punch in a programable code on the keypad then hit the start button. Voila!, the bike starts. When you get where you are going, all you do is turn off the on/off switch. It's a simple and very effective way to keep the bike secure and get rid of the ignition key. The same thing can be done with a magnetic lock for the seat lock and a helmet lock. You would have to use a keyless gascap tho. Electric current and gas fumes aren't the best of friends. The same principle is used on a lot of garage doors with the keypad on the side of the door frame outside the door to open it without a key to the door. Just my 2 cents worth.
Damien
So, hypothetically speaking, could you get MY hands on one of these corby keypads? And give me tips as to wiring/programming? And how much $$ are we talking? Cuz I think it sounds like a fun idea...
Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on February 25, 2007, 11:21:22 PM
So, hypothetically speaking, could you get MY hands on one of these corby keypads? And give me tips as to wiring/programming? And how much $$ are we talking? Cuz I think it sounds like a fun idea...
ditto
NGFL - Egaeus already pointed out that you don't want to use the RFID key to enable the starter because someone can push start your machine and drive it away. (If I was a duck I'd say if you were paying attention... :laugh:) Anywho, assuming you have some kind of switch that momentarily closes (easiest would be with a magnetic switch in a secret location, but an RFID key device that closes a contact in the presence of an RFID key would work the same. I wouldn't know where to find one of those, but they operate all the doors in my office). The magic is replacing the ignition with a "latching relay." A latching relay requires an electric current to open or to close, but will remain in the state it's left in without input. So your RFID key or magnet makes the relay switch to the on position (which is equivalent to turning your mechanical ignition key on), and some other button somewhere has to provide a signal to turn the relay off. (This could probably be wired into the existing kill switch, but I'm not sure.)
I was thinking about this, and while I'm not intimately familiar with the wiring on the GS, surely there's a way to tell if the engine is running, such as alternator output. Anyway, if you know the engine state, then it's a simple matter of implementing the logic for:
if (running or (not running and RFID present))
ignition on
else
ignition off
It's a simple truth table.
running RFID ignition
0 0 0
0 1 1
1 X 1
Which comes out to:
ignition = running OR RFID
Implementing the RFID part will be what's difficult.
Just to make this simpilar, is this what you mean chuck?
Like you would put your key in the ignition, and turn it to on, you can now start ur bike thru the normal method press starter, bike jumps into life.
With the RFID what your basically wanting is you get in range of the bike and effectivly the key is turned, now you can start the bike thru the starter switch, it jumps into life. But u need to be there with the rfid key all the time, as soon as you move out of range its like the key is turned off. Also wen ur on the bike n want to turn the engine off, you either kill it with the kill switch, at which point the engine would die. now ur on the bike the ignition is on but no engine. soon as you move out of the way ignition goes off.
It is relativly simple, you just need the turning of the key to be turned into a switch operated by the rfid, everything else could stay the same.
The problem comes though when you think about practicality. What do you do about the steering lock? that would be hard to operate via the rfid key, you would have to turn the handlebars to the point where they would lock then have the key to (in terms of the mechanical key) turn ignition off and then lock it. that would be a problem. other problems include your ignition will always be on while your in range, that means lights will be on, so you will always have to turn them off before you get off the bike. etc... seems like the key is just an easier option to me.
Quote from: Kasumi on February 26, 2007, 10:12:35 AM
It is relativly simple, you just need the turning of the key to be turned into a switch operated by the rfid, everything else could stay the same.
The problem that we had talked about before was that if the RFID tag lost communication, it would turn off the bike, probably while you're riding. You have to take the engine state into account.
I thought about the lighting right after I posted. Depending on how the kill switch works, the lighting could probably be connected to that instead of to the ignition switch.
The fork lock, if desired, would be tricky to add. A solenoid system would work, but it would be a pain to get it right.
It would be much easier to design this system from scratch instead of trying to retrofit it. However, I doubt that anyone is really going to go through the trouble of implementing it. I'd rather spend a few seconds fishing out a key than spend weeks or months of spare time working out an RFID system. If my bike is so decrepit that the ignition switch doesn't work, I'd put in a toggle switch and not worry about the fork lock, since it wouldn't be a primary target for theft, being a POS and all.
Quote from: Kasumi on February 26, 2007, 10:12:35 AM
other problems include your ignition will always be on while your in range, that means lights will be on, so you will always have to turn them off before you get off the bike. etc... seems like the key is just an easier option to me.
This could be addressed by the headlight interrupt idea discussed in another thread. :)
Ahh.. see, nobody in their right mind would want to retrofit something like this. But I'm a tinkerer with lots of free time. And far from being in my right mind..
Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on February 26, 2007, 11:13:45 AM
Ahh.. see, nobody in their right mind would want to retrofit something like this. But I'm a tinkerer with lots of free time. And far from being in my right mind..
Umm....aren't you like an EE student at GT? How do you have free time?
Kasumi - Yes, basically. Except in my vision, once the RFID igintion is turned on, it stays on, & must be manually turned off. Preferably, it turns off when you hit the engine kill switch, or lower the kickstand, so you wouldn't accidentaly leave it on all the time. Sensing the state of the engine is another way, but I imagine it to be harder. But hey, this whole plan is pretty hard already.
Quote from: Egaeus on February 26, 2007, 11:15:20 AM
Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on February 26, 2007, 11:13:45 AM
Ahh.. see, nobody in their right mind would want to retrofit something like this. But I'm a tinkerer with lots of free time. And far from being in my right mind..
Umm....aren't you like an EE student at GT? How do you have free time?
I was CompE at GT. Changing majors and taking a semester off. So basically I'm working, and then I have free time. No homework. Yay.
Quote from: Chuck on February 25, 2007, 07:39:53 PM
I'll buy you a beer some day to prove I'm not a duck, I promise.
you hurt my feelings too!
...umm I like Sam Adams BTW....
since you guys are gonna ditch the stock key; anyone mind telling me how you're gonna get into the undertail?? Seems silly to do all this & still have to lug that huge key around.
Look at it this way: you ride your bike to the strip club. Bouncer says no cameras alowd, not even camera-phones.
If: no key -> you leave. possibly with a hard-on from all the excitement;
ELSE: phone goes into undertail & you momentarily feel stupid for installing and FRID (or anything else for that matter) and still have to carry the key around.
It's a simple truth table:
Key RFID Boobies
0 0 0
1 0 1
0 1 0
1 1 1
which comes out to : Key = Boobies
Implementing the Boobies part will be what's difficult...
use somethin gelse to open the seat maybe a button or a switch of somesort. i dunno but i do like boobies.
Oddly enough, retrofitting the lock for the sideplastics would be fairly easy, methinks. Just change it to a pull handle instead of the twisting motion. Right now, it's a moot point, because I don't have tail plastics, due to the wreck bending the subframe and mounting points.
a pull switch would work or a push botton would work or you can do it like a car and add a button on the bars or somwhere and when you push it the seat pops open kinda like a trunk but thats alot of work or maybe not
Hmm... push button wouldn't be a bad idea, I could paint it the same color as the plastics (found a spraypaint that matches exactly).. hell, if I really wanted to get fancy, I could bondo it into the plastics so that it was indistinguishable from the surrounding plastic. Dunno if I wanna go that fancy though. Also, not sure how to make a push button pull on the cable.
im sure it can be done with some thought anything can be doen if you put your mind to it. :laugh: oh waith you can use a remote with somekinda acuater
Ehh, even though the RFID is fancy, I don't wanna get too fancy with the tail lock. The more complicated something is, the higher the chance of failure.
sp true so true i guess you can just use some bungy chord to hold the seat down :laugh:
Quote from: l3uddha on February 26, 2007, 05:36:07 PM
you ride your bike to the strip club....
For me personally, that won't be a problem. Oh, and was there a joke somewhere?
i would guess so.
Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on February 25, 2007, 11:21:22 PM
So, hypothetically speaking, could you get MY hands on one of these corby keypads? And give me tips as to wiring/programming? And how much $$ are we talking? Cuz I think it sounds like a fun idea...
Yup, I will check on it for you tomorow.....
Damien
Quote from: damiencovington on February 26, 2007, 10:22:41 PM
Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on February 25, 2007, 11:21:22 PM
So, hypothetically speaking, could you get MY hands on one of these corby keypads? And give me tips as to wiring/programming? And how much $$ are we talking? Cuz I think it sounds like a fun idea...
Yup, I will check on it for you tomorow.....
Damien
Awesome, thanks.
Hmm
http://cgi.ebay.com/RFID-Proximity-Door-Entry-Access-System-8-EM-tags-sa_W0QQitemZ290088143748QQihZ019QQcategoryZ41969QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Seems like that'd be easy to retrofit... except I don't know where I'd mount the keypad... under the seat? thoughts?
Found one even better
look Here (http://www.zygo.btinternet.co.uk/offer011.html)
Reader, 2 fobs, antenna, and programming disc (For adding additional FOBs) for $29 USD. + $11.60 shipping to the US.
When the Fob is present, a pin goes high and stays high until the fob is removed. If I use that pin to run the starter, I'm set. The problem is then what to do with the lights/other electrical. Since my goal is lack of keys, I was wondering if it would be possible to wire all the lights to the kill switch.
The way I envision it:
Get on bike, flip kill switch on. Headlights/running lights come on, turn signals are functional, dash is lit, etc, but bike still won't start.
Pass key fob over antenna, press starter (obviously with clutch in) bike starts. Once the fob is removed, the starter no longer works. But everything else should still work, since it's wired to the kill switch.
I was thinking the fobs are small enough to be sewn into a jacket sleeve, so I just pass my arm over the antenna.
Thoughts?
I'm sorry but I'm still struggling to find a point to all of this.
you put a keypad under your seat & you'll still need the stock key to get under the seat to ACCESS the keypad....
dont tell me you're gonna also fab up a push-button to unlock the seat because that's making it seem MORE impractacle & possibly unsafe.
is it for bragging rights??
i dont mean any offense at all... I just dont get WHY. :cookoo:
you put it in your sleeve...
where's the antenna mounted? While you're holding the clutch in w/ your left hand and thumbing the starter w/ your right hand; how are you passing your sleeve over the antenna?
how strong is the signal strength?
killswitching the lights is a great idea. especially when curious people touch bikes all the time, see a big red button, and flick it.
you come back to a dead battery.
all things to thing about... but I'm still trying to grasp some point to all of this :dunno_white:
DAMMIT, you are negative. The point is because I like to tinker, and have fun, and play with my bike to make it my own.
You obviously didn't click the second link, as there is no keypad, simply a reader with an antenna and an LED to let you know the fob was recognized.
The antenna will probably be mounted under the top triple, with wiring run back under the tank to the area under the passenger seat.
Nominal range is about 3"... I'll probably disable the clutch safety switch, so that I can keep my left hand over the triple, and use my right hand to hit the starter.
I hadn't considered the bike double starting, but that's easy to rectify.
A. The antenna will be in the top triple, and my left arm shouldn't be going anywhere near that while riding. B. If I think that's an issue, I can always wire it so that the RFID doesn't trigger the starter itself, but instead triggers a switch (aka t-gate) that allows current to flow to the starter when I press the starter button.
Option B seems more logical, and not much more complicated to wire.
As for the dead battery issue, believe me, people have pointed it out.. it's a risk I'm willing to take... 90% of the time, the bike will be for riding to work, where I park on the sidewalk outside the front door, where I can check on my bike every 5 minutes, if I feel the need (I don't). It's parked on the basketball court outside my fraternity, where people walk past it at least once every 20 minutes, and nobody is ever in our parking lot anyway.
As for the underseat storage, you didn't read my other posts. I have no tail plastics, so I just have a cable sticking out to release the seat, for now. Eventually I'll get the subframe straightened so I can remount the plastics. My options are:
A. Fab up a pull handle for the rear plastics, which wouldn't be hard. B. Fab up some sort of push button mechanism that fits in the existing hole. Harder, but more aesthetically pleasing. C. Run a line from the "Fob recognized" pin to a solenoid to pull the release. That would be really neat (Yes, it would unlock my seat for a fraction of a second every time I started the bike, whatever), and not TOO mechanically hard, but also a lot more of a possibility for failure, so I'll probably stay away from it.
As for the point.. like I said, I like to tinker, I'm a Tech kid, it's what we do.
I am a tech kid DIYer too!!! yay!! there ARE others like me. :cheers:
Check out this site : http://www.instructables.com/
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Anyhoo. I have a solution to your predicament that does not require an RFID. Of course do as you choose.
My Idea will completely bypass the need for a key for appling power to lights and starting the bike. Locking the forks would not be possible unless the ignition is left on the bike.
The bike can be wired to only start if a series of switches are engaged. A "code" if you will. It is actually very simple, once you protect the existing switches with Diodes.
Say your "code" is pulling both the front brake and clutch in. Designing a circuit that requires both switches engaged before power can be applied to the starter button and a relay that supplies power to the rest of the bike once the starter is engaged.
Disengaging the relay can be wired through the kill switch, effectively killing the motor, also.
Your "code" could be any combination of existing switches on the bike, i.e....highbeam, lowbeam, killswitch, left turn signal, right turn signal, front brake, rear brake, sidestand.....
you could even wire in a 6 pin toggle and have multiple "code" options to change your "codes" on the fly.
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Effectively bypassing the need for a key. Just turn on the left turn signal, pull the brake, pull the clutch and hit the start button.
Thats what your looking for, right?
easy enough circuit to build for anyone with basic electonic know-how. I think.
Ya know 3imo.. that's a damn good idea, which never occured to me. And the gate level design should be simple. It's just a matter of implementing it with switches. Definitely something to ponder. I'll get back to you guys on this one.
You could make it a state machine for extra security.
I dont mean to come off as negative!
believe me, I'm a "techy" guy too in electrical Engineering.
I honestly dont see the prevous ideas as a practical solution to the problem or goal.
They are way too complicated for what they do & have too many factors & points that are cause for failure or unexpected/unwanted conditions.
THOUGH, with that said, I really like 3imo's idea. if you indend on doing this, that's the direction I would head in. Some security systems for cars will only allow the car to start when some "switch" is triggered. The car will only start with the heated-seat on for example. That's along with the stock ignition. You could bypass the GS ignition unit with a simple ON/OFF switch, as well as wire your code condition switches for starting.
RFID, recievers, & keypads are just too damn complicated to be practical.
I know.. practicality wasn't my goal... neat factor or cool factor was..
back in high school a buddy of mine had a CHEVETTE. in the glove box was a household light switch, and a push botton start. :laugh: