Found this awesome article thanks to Digg about how to handle a situation where a poilce officer wants to search you or your vehicle.
http://www.flexyourrights.org/frequently_asked_questions
yea, except 2 and 4 are already wrong. I stopped reading after that.
Quote from: TragicImage on February 22, 2007, 06:31:29 PM
yea, except 2 and 4 are already wrong. I stopped reading after that.
How so?
A police officer does not have to arrest you for them to legally search you.
They may check you for weapons for their own safety, at any time. You do not get to deny them this. It is a search.
QuoteSimply put, the number of arrests an officer makes is a major factor used to determine his job performance. And police officers know that the easiest way to make arrests is to find people in possession of illegal drugs.
Also not true. A officer is not judged on his arrests, but on his convictions. And there is no stated quota of arrests. Illegal drug cases are also not the "easiest" cases.
Let's not forget five, too. :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: makenzie71 on February 22, 2007, 06:42:24 PM
Let's not forget five, too. :icon_rolleyes:
like I said... I stopped reading.
Errrr.....
This is a great article other then #2,4,5 :icon_confused:
edit: If I could delete this thread I would. Goes to show you I believe anything on the internet.
hahahaha, Read #16
QuoteDespite the risk of arrest, we don't discourage the taping and photographing of police. Video evidence is uniquely effective in exposing police misconduct. If you acquire video or photographic evidence that warrants an official investigation, create and secure copies of the evidence, then forward it to local police monitoring groups such as civilian review boards, ACLU, and NAACP chapters. You should also obtain legal representation for yourself in case the police department retaliates against y
Stereotyping? Anyone? Anyone?
OMG! or number 10 where they tell you that you don't have to be Mirandized.... wow.. this site is fuckedup
Somebody delete this thread so I can avoid the humiliation!
don't worry about it.
think of it as a learning experience.
I shove my head up my ass on a weekly basis on this site.
Quote from: TragicImage on February 22, 2007, 06:59:23 PM
don't worry about it.
think of it as a learning experience.
I shove my head up my ass on a weekly basis on this site.
Weekly? I thought it stayed there. :flipoff: :icon_lol: :icon_lol: Just kidding that one was wide open. :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
Yeah it is a learning experience.
#1 Rule that i've found on another Board.
Do not take Pictures of Cops Setting next to the Road
I know of One guy that was Riding down the Road with His Sister Driving and Took a Picture of a Cop setting next to the road.(Other Side of the Road) he Blew them Over and walked over to the passengers side and Asked the Guy to step out of the Vehicle.He Asked the Cop what the problem was and the Cop said that his Seatbelt looked a Little Loose (Which it wasn't) and still Wrote the Guy a Ticket for not wearing His Seatbelt. :icon_confused: :icon_confused: Sure he can Beat the Ticket with a Good lawyer.
Even if you do not consent for a Search of your Vehicle that Automatically creates Suspision that there is Something not Right and they will hold you until they can get a Search Warrant.This just buys you some time if you do have something Illegal in your Vehicle.If you don't have anything Illegal this is just wasting Time.why not conscent to the search if you have Nothing to Hide? :dunno_white:
That article is not completely off the grid. It has "some" good info in it.
An officer can not search you for any reason unless he has probable cause, a warrant, or consent. If he's searching you for his own saftey, then he has probable cause to believe that you might be a danger to him. Refusal of search does not constitute reasonable cause. Just because you have nothing to hide, doesn't mean you should let the police search your stuff. Why should you refuse a search if you have nothing to hide? Because the cop doesn't have the RIGHT to search your stuff.
I've been pulled over twice and had the cops ask me if they could search. I bought a car at a police impoud auction and had no idea what might have been hidden in it. I said no to both request and the police let me go on my way.
Which reminds me. I bought an old textbook from a bookstore in town a couple years ago. Took it home and found a joint hidden between the pages. It would have been fun trying to explain that had I been pulled over for speeding, consented to a search, and the cop found the joint. Always say no, and beware of old books, they might give you the munchies.
Quote from: TragicImage on February 22, 2007, 06:41:09 PM
A police officer does not have to arrest you for them to legally search you.
They may check you for weapons for their own safety, at any time. You do not get to deny them this. It is a search.
Care to back this up, or are you just talking out of your ass?
Cops can only pat you down if they feel like you have a weapon. If a cop wonders up to you and asks to pat you down you can refuse.
Quote from: Crash-n-Burn on February 22, 2007, 08:11:49 PM
Cops can only pat you down if they feel like you have a weapon. If a cop wonders up to you and asks to pat you down you can refuse.
Feelings aren't probable cause.
Quote from: TragicImage on February 22, 2007, 06:46:25 PM
OMG! or number 10 where they tell you that you don't have to be Mirandized.... wow.. this site is f%$kedup
And here we see that Tragic has ADD.
Quote
10. Aren’t police required to read me my rights?
No. The courts have made clear that police officers do not have to tell people that they can refuse to consent to a warrantless search. In other words, a police officer does not need to read you your rights before asking you to consent to a search. Also, despite the widespread myth to the contrary, an officer does not need to get your consent in writing. Oral consent is completely valid.
Many people believe that an officer must automatically read a person his or her Miranda rights as part of performing an arrest, either immediately before or immediately after an arrest is made. This is also myth.
The truth is that the only time an officer must read a person his or her Miranda rights is when: (1) the person has been taken into custody, and (2) the officer is about to question the person about a crime.
Police officers are often pretty tricky about trying to get someone’s consent to a search. They know that most people feel intimidated by police officers and are predisposed to comply with any request by a police officer. For example, the average motorist stopped by a police officer who asks them, "Would you mind opening the trunk, please?" will probably consent to the officer’s search without realizing that they have every right to deny the officer’s request.
more importantly... was this part.
Many people believe that an officer must automatically read a person his or her Miranda rights as part of performing an arrest,
yes, part of the arrest is being mirandized.
Quote from: TragicImage on February 22, 2007, 06:41:09 PM
A police officer does not have to arrest you for them to legally search you.
They may check you for weapons for their own safety, at any time. You do not get to deny them this. It is a search.
QuoteSimply put, the number of arrests an officer makes is a major factor used to determine his job performance. And police officers know that the easiest way to make arrests is to find people in possession of illegal drugs.
Also not true. A officer is not judged on his arrests, but on his convictions. And there is no stated quota of arrests. Illegal drug cases are also not the "easiest" cases.
well this must be a state wide thing then. in VA you do have the right to deny a search without a search warrant or a probable cause. and an officer is not going to make somthing fake up or he could be sued along with the city or state. I have denied searches before, not to be a duck but because it is rather a pain in my arse somtimes. the officer will say ok and move on. now since I have a concealed weapons permit I let them pat me down or search my car because I do not want to get in the middle of any kind of conflict. I have nothing to hide anyways. They must have atleast two officers present to approach me and must ask me if I have my weapon on me while my hands are up or to my side and still, then they must pat me down to make sure where my weapon is or if it is on me. or I must tell them where it is in my vehicle. but I dont get pulled over often. I did one time bcause of a screw up with the DMV on my tags while I was riding on my bike home. I got to experience this whole process lol.
I think most ppl in this forum are old enough to know most of this stuff, but to those kids out there that throw parties and the cops show up. Have everyone leave, with evidence of drinking, from the area in plain sight of the door. And you do not have to let them in.. I could be wrong but you actually don't even have to open the door for them, just talk through the door. But if anything try to only open it a crack and don't let them force it open, or quickly open the door step outside shutting the door behind you, or keep a chain lock on the door so they can't come in. They don't have the right to come in.
I tried to tell my friend this when I was younger, (I already learned from experience), but he was dumb and let them in, 3 friends plus me were busted for underage drinking. But now I'm well over the age to drink so no probs anymore.
Oh and one thing about getting pulled over for a ticket, ALWAYS ASK FOR A WARNING!! This has gotten me out of several tickets, what is the worst that could happen?
Answer: they say no and right you the ticket anyway.
Quote from: ixolas on February 22, 2007, 09:41:08 PM
I think most ppl in this forum are old enough to know most of this stuff, but to those kids out there that throw parties and the cops show up. Have everyone leave, with evidence of drinking, from the area in plain sight of the door. And you do not have to let them in.. I could be wrong but you actually don't even have to open the door for them, just talk through the door. But if anything try to only open it a crack and don't let them force it open, or quickly open the door step outside shutting the door behind you, or keep a chain lock on the door so they can't come in. They don't have the right to come in.
I tried to tell my friend this when I was younger, (I already learned from experience), but he was dumb and let them in, 3 friends plus me were busted for underage drinking. But now I'm well over the age to drink so no probs anymore.
Oh and one thing about getting pulled over for a ticket, ALWAYS ASK FOR A WARNING!! This has gotten me out of several tickets, what is the worst that could happen?
Answer: they say no and right you the ticket anyway.
you are right. if they ask you to step outside dont do it. that would then be drunk in public. you can be drunk all you want on your property as long as its behind closed doors. if they dont have a search warrant they are just out of luck.
Quote from: Jarrett on February 22, 2007, 07:36:38 PM
If he's searching you for his own saftey, then he has probable cause to believe that you might be a danger to him. Refusal of search does not constitute reasonable cause.
Not entirely true. An officer needs
reasonable suspicion, not probable cause to search if he/she believes that a subject may be presently armed or dangerous. Probable cause is required for arrest without a warrant.
Quote from: ops_south on February 23, 2007, 10:15:06 AM
Quote from: Jarrett on February 22, 2007, 07:36:38 PM
If he's searching you for his own saftey, then he has probable cause to believe that you might be a danger to him. Refusal of search does not constitute reasonable cause.
Not entirely true. An officer needs reasonable suspicion, not probable cause to search if he/she believes that a subject may be presently armed or dangerous. Probable cause is required for arrest without a warrant.
true true. I would think most are honest though. and I beleive this to be true. But it is good to allow them this right as well. as there are a lot of screw ups in the world that need to get thier door knocked down :).
I have a lot of cop friends so I can see both sides of the stories. heck even thought about becoming a cop
Quote from: TragicImage on February 22, 2007, 09:02:30 PM
more importantly... was this part.
Many people believe that an officer must automatically read a person his or her Miranda rights as part of performing an arrest,
yes, part of the arrest is being mirandized.
Quote from: WikipediaDue to the prevalence of American television programs and motion pictures in which the police characters frequently read suspects their rights, it has become an expected element of arrest procedure. In 2000, Chief Justice William Rehnquist wrote that Miranda warnings had "become embedded in routine police practice to the point where the warnings have become part of our national culture" (Dickerson v. United States, 530 U.S. 428). However, police are only required to warn an individual whom they intend to subject to custodial interrogation at the police station or when detained. Arrests can occur without questioning and without the Miranda warning — although if the police do change their mind and decide to interrogate the suspect, the warning must be given then. Furthermore, if public safety warrants such action, the police may ask questions prior to a reading of the Miranda warning, and the evidence thus obtained can sometimes still be used against the defendant.
This is from an actual LEO...probably someone who knows a thing or two about how the cop stuff really works.
QuoteHey makenzie71
I looked over that link. I don't feel like signing up just to debate legal issues that I have to deal with at work all the time Search and a pat down are two different things.. I can pat anyone down even on a gut hunch but a pat down is an EXTERIOR pat of clothing WITHOUT going into pockets to FEEL for guns, knives, or any other weapon. IF I locate a weapon based on Feel and I can identify it based on feel than I can go into that pocket to get it and secure it for my safety.
I cannot Search without PC, consent, or incident to arrest. If im going to search a vehicle I have either made an arrest, located contraband in plain view, or detected the odor of marijuana.. Then I can search a Vehicle based on the carol doctrine
Because a car is mobile, the standard to search is lower, this is reffered to as the carol doctrine. An officer still needs to have a reason to search but instead of probable cause, they only need reasonable suspicion.
NO I DO not need to read Miranda warning if im arresting someone. I do not need to read the miranda warning if Im asking someone who is under arrest basic pedagree information such as name, DOB, SSN, place of birth, where they live.
I DO need to read Miranda warning if I have made an arrest and I start asking them questions about the crime they committed. ... Custody + Interrogation = Miranda otherwise whatever info I get from them will be thrown out in court.
If I make an arrest and I don't ask any questions but the guy runs his mouth or start talking and he incriminates himself further that is called a spontanious utterance.. That Utterance is admissible in court.. As long as I don't ask him questions I don't need to do anything And I dont need to stop him and read him Miranda because IM NOT ASKING QUESTIONS.
My job performance is not evaluated on how many people I arrest. My job performance is based on convictions and without following case law my evidence would be thrown out..
Yes you can tell an officer No if he asks to search, Its your right, its a Constitutional right..... If an officer does his job wrong and violates your constitutional rights he is liable in a CIVIL law suit. I dont know any officer who wants to be sewed for violating civil rights.
As far as the underage drinking stuff at the end / Searching / entering a house theres alot more to go into.. All I can say is some of those guys need to put their law degree back in the crackerjack box where they got it. If an officer tells you to step outside to talk and you don't and he is in the process of investigating a crime its called Obstruction of Justice and then you will be arrested. If an officer directs you to step outside and your drunk.. IF... IF you are arrested for drunk in public you would be found NOT GUILTY because you were INSTRUCTED to step outside by a LEO and you were following HIS directions. Like i said put it back into the crackerjack box..........
Further, a search incident to arrest is going to be a search of the "lunge" area or passenger compartment that is accessible to the occupants. AFter an arrest is made.
If the department allows, After an arrest and Prior to the vehicle being towed (If it needs to be towed) the contents of the vehicle will be inventoried by the officer, This is also for liability reasons. Contraband can be found during an inventory and it is admissible.
Fell free to past this on the other board since i ended up writing a freeking book .. LOL
QuoteHey makenzie71
As far as the underage drinking stuff at the end / Searching / entering a house theres alot more to go into.. All I can say is some of those guys need to put their law degree back in the crackerjack box where they got it.
I wasn't claiming any type of law knowledge I just was trying to give some tips on not getting your friends arrested at your party.