I have leaky oil seals around the shift lever, clutch push rod, and I think the output shaft. Has anyone ever replaced any of these without splitting the cases? is this a possibility? From the parts break down it looks like I could just pull it out with a seal remover and install a new one with a driver of the proper size.
i also was thinking if that will not work I could just untorque (if that is a word) all the case bolts with the engine still in the frame to loosen the pressure on the seal then pull it out. Put new ones in place and then install the new ones and retorque.
Any thoughts or suggestions are greatly welcome. You guys are always a huge source of info.
Alex
Clutch push rod, yes. You'd have to do a search on the others.
You will have to split the cases to change the output shaft seal. Once the cases are split, you will need to clean the mating case surfaces to re-apply sealant....not something you want to do still in the frame, if you even can.
Man this sucks. I guess that shows me not to try to skip out on buying new seals when rebuilding an engine. I just put the whole thing back in the frame and got it al tuned up now I have to go back and do all this again. :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
I guess it I'll have to pull the carbs and all that crap, remove all the wiring, pull the engine, split the cases replace seals and go back to putting the motor back in.
Does anyone think I can get away with splitting the cases and not pulling the pistons out of the cylinder so i don't have to mess with rings again. I just replaced them and don't want to spend another $40 on rings and fight with them.
The seals might just have to leak.
You probably can flip the motor and split the cases without pulling the top end.
Quote from: dgyver on March 06, 2007, 10:50:27 AM
You will have to split the cases to change the output shaft seal.
Are you
sure about that? :dunno_white: I know the engine is assembled with those seals in place but at least the outer ouput shaft seal looks doable. OP could try it; he has nothing to lose.
I looked at a case (pic below) and you should be able to change it without splitting the cases. I was thinking of the thrust retaining ring for the bearing. Sorry, it has been awhile since I had a motor apart.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/dgyver/GSmods/GSlowercase01.jpg
Thats kind of what I was leanng towards, but justwasn't sure. I thought I would order the seal, see if it had any sort of a lip on it and go from there. If it had a lip it would not be able to be done without splitting cases. But without a lip it should be simple. Now to fiigure out why this thing has next to ZERO low end torque. But, that will be after I check compression and what not.
thanks again!!!!
Alex
Quote from: Afzzr12 on March 06, 2007, 07:17:03 PM
Now to fiigure out why this thing has next to ZERO low end torque
Cuz it's a GS! :laugh:
Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on March 06, 2007, 07:51:56 PM
Quote from: Afzzr12 on March 06, 2007, 07:17:03 PM
Now to fiigure out why this thing has next to ZERO low end torque
Cuz it's a GS! :laugh:
+1
It's not a Hardly Able, Son so it's not made for towing boats. IT's not happy under 5000 rpm, and gets downright stubborn below 3500.
I can confirm its possible to change the O/P shaft seal without splitting the cases. I have done it myself, It can be done in minutes but be careful flicking the old one out, you dont want to damage the case or scratch the seal land or damge the plastic spacer directly behind the seal
.
I can remember someone in the past (forget who) swearing blind that it could not be done as there was a lip in the casing holding the seal captive. DG`s pics confirm what I said then.........there is no lip and it can be done.
BTW Afzzr? before you go pulling all the old seals out check the breather is not blocked, if it is, chances are the crankcase will be pressurising and forcing oil out past the seals.
Quote from: sledge on March 07, 2007, 06:12:51 PM
I can remember someone in the past (forget who) swearing blind that it could not be done as there was a lip in the casing holding the seal captive. DG`s pics confirm what I said then.........there is no lip and it can be done.
Early versions of the GS450 had seals with raised lips and machined grooves in the cases for a snug fit. These seals could not be removed without splitting the cases. :cookoo: Later versions use an external plate to retain the pushrod & output shaft seals and these are fully servicable. :thumb:
But that's where the confusion stems from. If dgyver ever tore down an early version, this is where he would have seen a C-ring retaining the seal.
Well the low end torque thing consisted of the left cylinder not firing. It semi fires now. I thought is was a spark problem, but checked the spark by pulling the plug out of the cylinder and grounding it to the engine while cracking. It isn't a big fat blue spark, but is a smaller blue spark. It look about the same as the right cylinder whcich is running ok.
I swapped the ignition coil to see if that was the problem, nope still the nasty left cylinder. So I tried th obvious one of swapping the plugs (I don't have new ones just the older ones I had in my garage will get new ones tomorrow). Swapping the plugs seemed to help a little but not much. Also the plug out of the left cylinder was very black, but both the pilot screws are turned out 3 turns and the right looks perfect.
I checked the cab balance and all was well, I just rebuilt the carbs and adjusted the float height. so I guess I am down to checking the resistance and what not of all the ignition system to track this down. The only other thing I can think of is maybe the valve shim clearance isn't right on one of the valve in the left cylinder.
I also checked the grounds and everything was good. Checked the connectors to the coils and the igniter box. all was well.
What is happening now after all that is this. I start it from cold w/ the choke on it only idles around 2000. Once warmed up I turn the choke off and it drops to roughly 1200. While idling it has a blip/ hicup to it. If I remove the left cylinder plug it smooths out, but the RPMs only drip a little if I remove the right side it pretty well dies.
I know this is long, but I'm just so frustrated. Also, I hve not done a compression check because I haven't bought the tool. I wll tomorrow.
Please help me.
LCDS - Left Cylinder Dysfunction Syndrome. I had it too with similar symptoms. I wish I could tell you what I did to fix it. I simply cleaned and balanced the carbs to fix that AFAIR, but now I have LCDS with different symptoms.
I have had spark failure due to corroded connectors in the wire harness, eventhough it looked like there was still spark. This was on my old race bike which was never in rain and I stored it in a conditioned shop. I use electrical grease on all of the connectors now.
man this is a finicky little bike. I thought Suzuki made more reliable stuff than this. Of course it is 12 years old. I'll give te electric grease a shot on all the connectors.
I ried balancing the carbs too and it helped, but it still kind of hiccups while it idles. But, once I'm up to around 2500 rpms it is perfectly smooth and has plenty of power.......for a GS. :laugh: