(http://www.badazztoyz.com/products/streetbikes/phoenix125/phnx-black.jpg)
I've posted a bit about this bike lately and now I'm elbow deep in working out all the conversion steps and taking measurements and calculating costs and what not and I've come up with one package deal with a certain price.
Phoenix bike
17" wheels
310mm rotors up front
Tokico 2-piston calipers up front
Tokico 5/8" master cylinder up front
250mm rotor in back
Tokico 1-piston caliper in back
Tokico 3/8" Master cylinder in back
Showa preload/bound/rebound adjustable shock in back
125cc 2-stroke motor putting down 39 rear wheel horsepower and 21 ft/lbs torque
Bike would weigh 225lbs wet. With a pipe, filter, and some porting this particular motor could put down closer to 45hp and 28ft/lbs. Only so much you can squeaze out of a 125.
$4400
THe same basic setup but with different motors (though I'm not sure of costs yet...just guessing)
250cc 2-stroke 60 crank horsepower/38 crank ft/lbs torque. 240lbs ~ $4950
491cc 2-stroke 66 crank horsepower/56 crank ft/lbs torque. 255lbs ~ $5490
487cc 4-stroke 45 crank horsepower/30 crank ft/lbs torque. 260lbs ~ $4100
498cc 4-stroke 60 crank horsepower/35 crank ft/lbs torque. 275lbs ~ $4440
Haha and I'll sell them as Makzukis...with displacement derived alpha numeric models...like Makzuki 491 haha (I can't wait to build THAT one...working on an older 398cc engine first).
So you'd be taking the Phoenix bike off eBay, adding 17s, working the brake system over, swapping the air cooled 4-stroke 125 for a 125cc two stroke, and changing the rear suspension?
If you do go through with this, maybe change the front fork springs and oil to suit the buyer's weight as well.
Why are the two stroke engines so much more than the four stroke?
You might also want to check out the frame and make sure it is structurally sound, as well as bearings on the wheels and steering head.
It's a Chinabike, so it might be difficult to register, especially in California. This is, of course, assuming it even has a title.
$4400 is probably too much, but $3500 might be doable. It looks like it'd make a wicked track bike.
Quote from: AlphaFire X5 on March 08, 2007, 02:24:46 AM
So you'd be taking the Phoenix bike off eBay, adding 17s, working the brake system over, swapping the air cooled 4-stroke 125 for a 125cc two stroke, and changing the rear suspension?
Essentially.
QuoteIf you do go through with this, maybe change the front fork springs and oil to suit the buyer's weight as well.
I'm going to wait until I have a set of these forks lying around to "mess up" before considering reworking them. They're a generic design and I'm not sure yet about how easily race-tech or someone could duplicate springs and adjusters for them. I am looking into it, though.
QuoteWhy are the two stroke engines so much more than the four stroke?
I can find enough cheap and used GS500 and EX500 engines to warranty them...I mean Suzuki and Kawasaki have been selling essentially the same motors since 1984. I can run a used one and if it fails I won't be out much replacing it. A two-stroke motor, however, would have to be rebuilt before selling. On top of that, try even finding USED 2003+ CR 125 or 250 motors for under $1000...much less '03+ CR500 powerplants. I mean I could run with older blocks and save money by just rebuilding them, but they'll be down on power. The new CR engines are the strongest ever and have the largest aftermarket.
QuoteYou might also want to check out the frame and make sure it is structurally sound, as well as bearings on the wheels and steering head.
The steering heads are a generic honda clone and the bearings are sturdy. The wheels and swingarm will be replaced with better stuff. The chassis it's self is as sturdy as the EX frame...it'll handle 70~ish whp before I would get concerned. Hoever, for the heavier blocks, eaxtr bracing will be welded in (frames are steel).
QuoteIt's a Chinabike, so it might be difficult to register, especially in California. This is, of course, assuming it even has a title.
I'll be selling them with clean Texas titles...you will NOT be able to get the 2-smokers registered in Cali, though. The bikes, originally, can't be sold in California but I don't see why. After registered in Texas it should be able to go anywhere...but on the registration I'll be leaving things out like how it's now got a 500cc 65hp motor in it.
Quote$4400 is probably too much, but $3500 might be doable. It looks like it'd make a wicked track bike.
Like I said...with an old, used engine, yeah...$3500 would be do-able for the 125 with a rebuilt top but you'd be down 10rwhp and 5lbs/tq. It'd be hard to stick one of the more powerful, newer engines in it for that much but "getting lucky" has happened before. It'll be dependant on individual sale.
My ideas behind the 125 and 250 are race bikes...who, other than me, would really want to ride a high strung narrow band 125 or 250 on the street?
sounds intriguing!
Ok these things have a rather generic honda clone steering head. This means that just about any set of CBR/RVT forks would drop in. I'd have to adjust the price to suit forks...depending on what the customer would want. I'll come up with a price list later. I wish honda had went with 320mm rotors.
As for ther rear I can fit bandit 400 and katana wheels back there...I'm going to be measuring it up to fit other varieties of swingarms back there to get more wheel options. Maybe evan an sssa haha
I guess earlier I could have mentioned that the price is $4400, for the 125cc, shipped to your door. But I found a few corners I could cut and I've got the price settled to around $4100...again, that's with:
Phoenix bike
17" wheels
310mm rotors up front
Tokico 2-piston calipers up front
Tokico 5/8" master cylinder up front
250mm rotor in back
Tokico 1-piston caliper in back
Tokico 3/8" Master cylinder in back
Showa preload/bound/rebound adjustable shock in back
125cc 2-stroke motor putting down 39 rear wheel horsepower and 21 ft/lbs torque
~225lbs wet (monoposto..+40-ish for biposto)~
If my bearing measurments are right I can get late model, radial caliper GSXR front ends to fit up for another $700 on any bike.
Taking the same shortcuts the 491 would be AT LEAST $5100~$5300, and the 249 would be in the upper range between. 250 and 500 blocks cost about the same.
and how long is the service interval on them 2 smokes........???
my old RS125....about 44 HP...GP racebike..... 163 # of pure adrenaline
150 miles replace rings
300 miles replace rings/piston
600 miles replace crank bearings and (engine mounts....to prevent exploding the pipe)
1200 miles rebuild/replace crank
Quote from: werase643 on March 08, 2007, 06:54:48 PM
150 miles replace rings
300 miles replace rings/piston
600 miles replace crank bearings and (engine mounts....to prevent exploding the pipe)
1200 miles rebuild/replace crank
:D Something like that. The motors aren't as stressed as an RS125, though, so you get a bit more longevity out of them. With the 125 and 250 it's recommended the tops be rebuilt every 1000 hours and that they get a full work over every 2000. They'll last much longer than that, though. If you turn the wrenches yourself you can rebuild to top on the 125 and 250 in 2 hours for less than $100...a full work-over would take less than a day if you have someone local who can turn the crank for you.
...I had a 1992 CR250 last 11 years on an untouched motor. They're not "frail".
that was supposed to be 100/2000...sorry.
CRF 250 would be very interesting....with a lighting coil
seriouslt thinking about a XR100 big bore in a ysr50 chassis with a XL100 charging system
Heck I think the Lifan 150 is a big bore 100 with elec start.....
each bike would have a lighting coil...that's part of the cost. I'd have to add one on most but all the same. There are a few boobs, such as myself, who wouldn't hesitate to run a 125 as a streetbike haha.
somebody showed up at the TWO 50 cc fun run a couple of yrs ago on a street legal RS125.......
I wonder how they pulled that off? REgistered it as a custom bike or something.
There's more than one guy with a 450cc KTM 2-stroke crammed into an RS50.
Mak,
You wouldn't know a general rule for swing arm angle would ya?
I'm getting 14 degrees with no engine and figured in 1/2-3/4 sag unloaded with engine and get 12 degrees
it just looks kinda funky....
I think there is a sick bastard who did a CRF450 in a RS-50.......
bah there's all kinds of swaps...I don't think I would feel comfy running around on a 110 rear with 60hp haha
i like the idea of a 500cc 4 stroke.
The two 4-stroke blocks seem to get a lot more attention from people...and they're the best engines to run with, really, for doing anything on the street.
would you be able to adapt a single pumper? like a large bore, 500+ cc single?
I was actually looking at doing the DRZ400E engine to begin with because they have electric starters, kick starters, and have a 200w coil from the factory. I also thought about the XR650R engine. I decided against the thumbers because power output is "disapointing" for their size and they're very heavy...but I could do it.
cool. thanks for all your replies. this is interesting stuff.
i mentioned the single because i have visions of a Royal Enfield sport bike...
well I 'd be willing to try and stab in just about any kind of engine so if a royal enfield sport tickles your giblets then so be it.
that sounds fresh, you'll make my wife jealous.
So I did a bunch of hunting and I got what I think is a good average for a used 125cc engine and came up with $3350...no warranty, though, so you'd learn how to rebuild top-ends! haha Well you'd have to learn how to do that anyway.