So the GS hasn't started the past two mornings. Both times I walk out and it turns over a few times but never runs. Yesterday the battery seemed to die, this morning it started but wouldn't break 1k rpm, probably around 500 rpm for about 15 sec and then died.
Yesterday I walked back from classes, threw the bike on the center stand pulled the plugs and checked them - not too bad, one seemed a little wet but maybe that was my imagination, I pulled it and by the time found my lighter to dry it I looked again and it was fine. I also noticed the dealer put the float bowls on backwards so my drain screws face in (d'oh, should have chekced before I picked it up - does this affect anything?). Put the plugs back in, and the bike turned over and started right up. No messing with the battery - could the 15 degreeF temp difference been to blame?
This morning I pulled the plugs and they were both definitely dry. Didn't have any more time to play and had to walk to class. Bike was just tuned at a dealer so it shouldn't be carbs - so should I run and buy a new battery or is it something else? I've had to jump the bike before - anytime I let it sit a few weeks. Do I just need a battery tender? (I dont currently have one).
One thing I can comment on is that having a battery tender is awesome. They work wonders. I had a battery last 4 years when using one.
-Anti 8)
Float bowls backwards and you think the stupid dealer is good ...
And you can have messed up floats ... the bowls hold them in place.
Why did the you take it to the dealer ... I mean what was the original problem, chances are, that problem is still there and mutated.
And fix it yourself, that will save you a lot of walking.
Failing which, send to me, I'll jet it etc and tell you what else if frocked up.
Cool.
Srinath.
If you leave your bike sitting for weeks at a time, yeah, get a battery tender. Most batterys will loose some charge over a couple weeks, and the freezing temps don't help the starting.
I'd take the bike back to the shop and demand my money back, and make a big scene in front of the customers about how incomitent the mechanics are. I think the bike should work okay with the float bowls swapped, unless you need to drain them that is.
You probally won't get your money back, but they'll at least put the bowls back on right. Watch them work too, and make them do it immediatly. The yelling in front of the customers really helps speed things allong. :flipoff: them I mean that's something that the "pros" shouldn't do.
QuoteFloat bowls backwards and you think the stupid dealer is good ...
And you can have messed up floats ... the bowls hold them in place.
Why did the you take it to the dealer ... I mean what was the original problem, chances are, that problem is still there and mutated.
The dealer wasn't so much my choice - I had spent lots of time messing with the carbs - see all my other posts from end of last summer. I wanted to keep playing with them but pops didn't want me on a bike that didn't run right so he took it and paid for it while I was in school and the bike was at home. I do plenty of my own work - fork seals, valve adjustments, just about ever adjustment I could do. I guess the carbs were just taking me longer to get over the learning curve. I knew the theory but couldn't get the adjustments right.
The original problem was that the bike was bogging down in the low end, I had to rev to mid range rpms and slip the clutch to get movin without stalling. Its not driver error, I've been on other bikes - it had adjustment issues.
I'll probably swap the bowls myself when I have a few extra minutes - I just wanted to be sure that it wasn't causing any immediate issue. The bikes with me at school now - an hour away from that dealer. If the old girl magically runs again when i get home I'm assuming its the batter not liking chilly mornings. Its been weak and I should be able to hit the starter button more than 4 times before the battery dies on me.
4 times is plenty to get it started if it has a decent set of carbs. I tune my bikes with the shittiest battery I can find. 2 tries is all I would allow after its been parked overnight. If its been 3-4 days, then 4-5 tries. Clean and jet your carbs. Dealer isn't going to do that right no matter what.
Cool.
Srinath.
I've got a feeling theres a combination of things here that are to blame. The battery was WAY weak - hooked to a charger it registered no charge. Old one is now charging to hold me over and the new one is going on order tomorrow. The bike starts pretty well jumped to a car battery.
I'm also running without a frame petcock. Prime and Res lines from tank go to a T fitting that runs through a fuel filter and to the fuel inlet :nono: I know, stupid for like 10 different reasons. I should be getting one off ebay or the forum, whichever happens fastest. Maybe the extra pressure on the inlet of the needle valve is causing a very slow leak - might explain why its only hard to start after sitting for a day or two?
Carbs should be clean - dealer did it and so did I, the bike ran fine a week ago when it came back from the dealer - actually ran better than it ever has. Its only giving me problems the past few days. I'm doubting they're already filled with crap - theres a filter in place and it looks clean.
I'll get the petcock resolved, bowls swapped (and make sure float levels are still good), clean plugs (these are the ones from when it was running bad - just cleaned up a bit) and new battery if this one doesn't hold a charge - if she still won't start in the morning then its just the carbs that are left. Don't worry they wont go back to the dealer if thats the case. I've made some new local MC friends - theres one that may be able to help and if he can't I'd be honored to say that srinath himself had blessed my carbs. (they're already jetted though, one size up on pilot and main).
Do you have your old petcock? I know a trick that will make it work as a manual.
Hey if you need help on the carbs post up here or PM me, I am more than willing to help diagnose problems, if its running really rich in the low RPM that is all off idle stuff so your float height may be off, does it idle right?
You are going to want to turn those float bowl bottoms back around, and you should get that petcock fixed or your going to come back one day and find your bike peeing itself.
So as of right now the battery is charged.
The bike only starts at half choke. After warming up turning off the choke causes the bike to just die. The bike will start w/ no choke after warming up only if the throttle is fully open but it doesn't rev high, just runs around 1krpm and when the throttle is closed it just dies.
This bike ran great two days ago, no changes were made to the carbs, they were just cleaned and tuned two weeks ago at a dealer and the bike was running great after that.
Could my carbs be clogging depsite the filter thats installed? It was much colder two weeks ago, could they just have the air screws tightened down to compensate for the denser air when they were tuning two weeks ago?
Float levels appear dead on - bottom of the meniscus in the tube was right at the seam where float bowls meet carb body in u-tube test. Using a mirror I checked how far the air screws are tightened down, if my memory serves me right as to the depth of the screw holes - those things are cranked way in, I could be wrong though.
Okay mjn12 good idea checking the floats.
I really really really think you need to flip the bowls around so they face the right way
Second, the idle mixture screws that you saw with your mirror can be set very easly. The method for setting them is to turn them all the way in(clockwise rotation when looking at the head) untill they gently bottom out. From there turn them out 3 full revolutions, this will get you in the ball park. With this done I want you to start your bike, give it some choke.
I know you said it runs only with half choke and thats fine, I want you too twist the throttle just a tiny bit and see if that makes it rev, see if you can rev it to about 3000RPM and see if it will "hang" and not really come back down.
If you need to, call me a 651-470-0747 and I can talk you through why and how all this works(call after 9PM CST since I get free minutes) because I don't use AIM.
I'm going to operate under the assumption the carbs are turned since the bike was running great a week ago. I pulled the plugs and the right one was wet. I'm gonna guess this is the root of my issue. Like i said no petcock (stupid i know) but I never leaked or got wet plugs before. Checked the oil, it seems a little thin and gassy. I'm guessing one of my floats is leaking, strange though cuz the level seemed fine.
Is there anything else that woudl cause thin oil and a wet plug?
No hydrolock is when the cylinder fill enough with water that as it comes up for the compression stroke the water doesn't compress and frags your engine.
Yeah check the oil and make sure it does not smell like gas, if it does change it asap.
Do you have your old petcock???
oops edited: figured out what hydrolock was so I edited the post.
No old petcock. I'm gonna see what the dealer has in terms of aftermarket generic or pingel or something. Theres an ebay acution but that doesn't end for a few days. I'm impatient and want to get this thing running
I'll pull the carbs tomorrow and switch the float bowels, check the levels and make sure the floats are clean and moving.
Put a post in the for sale section some one might have one.
Even if the petcock is bad, i.e. the diaphragm is bad I know a trick to fix it and make it a non-vacuum petcock.
working a deal for the petcock, its on its way.
But the bike still isn't running right. Pulled the plugs, made sure they were good, swapped one out for another I had sitting in my tool box - big blue sparks on both now. Heres how the bikes running:
Starting I have to add 1/2 choke. After a minute or two it idles very high, shutting choke off only brings it down to about 4k rpm. It doesn't like to run below this anymore, a week ago it idled great (1.1k rpm and was quiet and consistent). I went for a ride and it stayed at 4k rpm. I had to slip the clutch a lot to keep it running. From everything I've heard on the forum this is running lean.
I tried adjusting the idle screw down. When I did that I could get it to drop to 1k rpm but then it would just do what I can only explain as "sneezing". It sounded like a puff of air was going backwards though the carbs. The valves should all be within spec as I adjusted 100 miles ago. After "sneezing" a few times it would die.
The carbs were working perfectly a week ago. Should I assume my pilot jets are getting clogged. I'm at a loss since it went' from running perfectly to barely running in two days??
Well I switched the floats bowls back, confirmed the float levels, made sure everything was clean. There was a small amount of rust powder in the bottom - it was EXTREMELY fine (it made it through the filter). Wiped that out and ran a thin wire through all the little ports to make sure those were clean. New set of plugs and the bike fired right up. I road for about three miles, mostly around 6-7k rpm (i was in the city). Got the bike back and immediately pulled the plugs. The left one was white (lean) and the right was black (rich), so none of that nice brown color we're looking for.
Currently both air screws are 3 turns, floats are dead on and not leaking. Is it ok to have a discrepancy in the air screw adjustment (i.e. adjust right one to 2.75 or 2.5 turns and the other to 3.25 or 3.5) in order to get each carb running at the proper mixture, or does this discrepancy (different mixtures between carbs at the same adjustment) indicate something else is in need of attention?
Update: Proceeding on the assumption that a discrepancy between air screw settings would be ok I started reading plugs, first I just let it idle, pulled, adjusted air screw, cleaned plugs, put back in and repeat. Once they were no longer showing lean or rich right away (coming out clean after a 10 minute idle with no choke) I went for a ride. The bike felt good and was responsive but displayed that lean hanging idle. Pulled the plugs and the left was a little white, the right was a little dark but not overly fouled. I'm gonna continue adjusting based off of the plug readings till they both appear to be spot on. Someone stop me if I'm on the wrong path (not adjusting the air screws in unison) or if reading plugs and adjusting cylinders accordingly is the smart way to go.
Left carb has vacuum line going to it. That may create an intake vacuum leak.
Else, set air screws to 3 on both and try it.
I think you are sucking air somewhere.
Cool.
Srinath.
Yeah when you pulled your petcock off, did you plug the vacuum line?
Also check the two little caps on the top of the carbs for balancing, the crack and split and leak air.
Also make sure you did not forget the little o-ring under the top cover.
Good Job though, its easy once you get your hands into it.
I was in there last summer with no luck, i think I've always been too rushed to get things fixed, resulting in me making too many little mistakes. I stopped and went over everything I had done.
I found a loose idle jet, that was the cause of the initial crazy richness I was experiencing in my left cylinder. When I put everything together I experienced lean symptoms. When putting the carbs back together I had dropped one of the o-rings from the top of the carbs - fortunately I had one lying around that sealed tight. Engine ran MUCH better at the regular 3 turns on each air screw. Still acting slightly lean.
I used a can of starter fluid to find out where I was still sucking air. The tops of both carbs are fine but the Idle climbs when I spray at the right intake boot. The boot looks fine - no dry rotting, the clamp is tightened down to about 1/2" between the two ends. Could the boot be warped? Should it be replaced or is it more likely to be an issue with the choke plungers or something like that not sealing??
Intake boots can look new and nice and still suck air.
You look like you're impatient or a little jittery or drunk or all 3 :o when working on them. I am patient and not jittery and drunk when I do carbs. That is the key. O0
Stop dropping things, and get yourself a clean work surface (an no jokes about how shitty my garage is, I do carbs on the tailgate of my truck in my driveway) Perfect location. Anyway stop dropping things and maybe spray that copper sealant thingy they sell at autoparts places to try to plug up your manifold and at best its short term if it works at all.
Cool.
Srinath.
Not drunk - thats after working on the bike. Jittery - yeah, I need to cut back on my coffee intake. Impatient - definitely when Its nice out.
Fortunately the only thing that was my fault this go-round was the missing o-ring. That idle jet was loose from the dealers excellent work.
What is this copper stuff you're talking about as a temporary solution? Is replacing the intake boots as simple as it looks (two screws and the o-ring between the boot and the cylinder head)? For 40 bucks I could replace those and just save all of the other messing around with temporary solutions.
The bike runs reasonably well right now, but I know it could run great once I get this sorted out. I'm slowing down and being a little more Zen when I work - more methodical and meticulous.
Alright - tracked down any air leaks, things just seemed to need reseated and tightened down. Bike ran ok for a couple days, until plugs fouled. Switched em and they fouled again. The bike can idle for a while and plugs come out like new, if I run the bike on the road between 5-8k rpm (my normal running range in the city) they start fouling again. The bike runs great until my plugs fowl. Both cylinders fowl equally
What I have eliminated:
Float levels - pass u-tube
Leaky needle valves - I'd be loosing gas into the cylinders /airbox, not happening
Tight Choke cable - checked it when choke is off on the control it has plenty of room at the carb
Stuck slides - ran for a few seconds w/o fliter - watched the slides move just fine with the throttle
My set up is 40/125, no washer, three turns on the mix screws. I'm tempted to hit bike bandit and order all the o-rings in the bowls (needle valve seat, the one that goes on the stem attached to the floats, etc) and replace them. Should I replace choke pistons (I dont think so, if these were bad it would affect idle too right)? Maybe also try going back to 122.5 mains? Any suggestions?