I'm looking into upgrading the springs in my front forks. I either want to go with race tech or sonic springs. They're the same price, so are there any major performance differences? Which brand do you think I should go with?
I thought the whole advantage of sonic springs was that they're cheaper... ???
What do I know, I have progressives. :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: RVertigo on May 09, 2007, 06:50:15 PM
I thought the whole advantage of sonic springs was that they're cheaper... ???
What do I know, I have progressives. :icon_mrgreen:
Yeah that's what I've heard, but I found both for $79.99.
I went the sonics because they were cheaper (at the time) and they shipped to Australia.
I think new front springs are the best upgrade I have done to my bike.
I went 0.85mm/kg and am very happy with the balance of comfort and handling.
No more bottoming out, no more diving under brakes!!!
I weigh 75kg :thumb:
Quote from: galahs on May 09, 2007, 07:01:41 PM
I went the sonics because they were cheaper (at the time) and they shipped to Australia.
I think new front springs are the best upgrade I have done to my bike.
I went 0.85mm/kg and am very happy with the balance of comfort and handling.
No more bottoming out, no more diving under brakes!!!
I weigh 75kg :thumb:
thats like 10 pounds right? :)
If you found both for the same price id go with race tech only because of the name but springs are springs in my mind.
I have no idea what that is in imperial :laugh:
Join the metric system yanks, you'll love it! :cheers:
Quote from: darb85 on May 09, 2007, 07:04:09 PM
Quote from: galahs on May 09, 2007, 07:01:41 PM
I went the sonics because they were cheaper (at the time) and they shipped to Australia.
I think new front springs are the best upgrade I have done to my bike.
I went 0.85mm/kg and am very happy with the balance of comfort and handling.
No more bottoming out, no more diving under brakes!!!
I weigh 75kg :thumb:
If you found both for the same price id go with race tech only because of the name but springs are springs in my mind.
10 pounds :laugh: I think that's about right.
race tech is what I was kinda partial towards
I'm tired of hitting a little bump and feeling that bottoming out, I'm looking forward to the better handling as well. :)
How was the install? I read a how to in the faq. I'm a pretty competant (sp) DIY, you think I'll be fine?
Quote from: galahs on May 09, 2007, 07:12:03 PM
I have no idea what that is in imperial :laugh:
Join the metric system yanks, you'll love it! :cheers:
Seriously, our system of measurment is a joke.
The install is easy. Even a shiela that knows one end of a hammer from the other could do it.
Basically just remove your handle bars
Remove the fork caps slowly with a spanner/socket wrench. Becareful they'll shoot off if you don't hold them.
Remove the spacer, fish out the springs with a bent clothes hanger
(if you want change the oil. I pumped mine out and replaced it with 10 weight oil)
Cut the spacer to size.
Reinstal new spring, new spacer
Reinstall cap. (Don't cross thead the cap!!!!!)
Reinstall the handlebars.
Enjoy!
Quote from: galahs on May 09, 2007, 07:23:18 PM
The install is easy. Even a shiela that knows one end of a hammer from the other could do it.
Basically just remove your handle bars
Remove the fork caps slowly with a spanner/socket wrench. Becareful they'll shoot off if you don't hold them.
Remove the spacer, fish out the springs with a bent clothes hanger
(if you want change the oil. I pumped mine out and replaced it with 10 weight oil)
Cut the spacer to size.
Reinstal new spring, new spacer
Reinstall cap. (Don't cross thead the cap!!!!!)
Reinstall the handlebars.
Enjoy!
Thanks for the hot to.
That's funny my moms name is sheila, maybe I'll get her to install them. :laugh:
you ordering from indysuperbike cause if you are I found them :icon_mrgreen:.....just kidding
Anyways I would go racetech, they are better quality in terms of accuracy and the spacing material is a little nicer
I got the Sonics (not installed yet) due primarily to the fact that they're straight rate springs and will be a little more predictable . They make a good point on their website about front shocks already having a progressive rate due to the oil in them , so adding progressive-rate springs would make it real soft at first , then get more and more stiff as you go along (like in hard cornering) altering the bike's geometry little by little the further you get into the turn . I'd much rather use my brake/throttle to change the geometry as needed personally ... but then again , i'm still learning about all this hehe
Did ya know there was a GS500 Wiki ???!!! :o
I went with RaceTechs for the higher quality and closer tolerances, as well as I didn't know the Sonics existed. Now that I've seen the Sonics, I'd still go with RaceTech because they are wider spaced coils (less chance of binding or having the coils touch), and they are lighter, while still maintaining a stiffer spring rate. Personal preference, really.
Quote from: coll0412 on May 09, 2007, 07:42:40 PM
you ordering from indysuperbike cause if you are I found them :icon_mrgreen:.....just kidding
Anyways I would go racetech, they are better quality in terms of accuracy and the spacing material is a little nicer
Yep thats the site.
Alright you guys have convinced me, I'm going with the race techs. I used the calculator thing to see what springs I need and it said .80KG/MM. I weigh about 180, I'm assuming this is what I should go with.
You weigh 180 yourself , or with all your gear on ? I read that you should go by your weight , plus gear , and then go up one spring size . I'm 210 , about 220 with jacket and helmet , assumed the bike was approx 400lbs wet , and I went with the .95 Sonics
176 last doctor visit, so I'm assuming 185/190 with gear? :dunno_white: I'll try that thing again, there were a couple different ones.
Can anyone verify the whole "go one spring size heavier" thing ? I don't want to mislead ya bro :icon_rolleyes:
I was thinking either .80 or .85 at the most. The calculator gave me llike .795 something. I'm gonna try it again and go with a more accurate weight. Do you know the weight of the bike with a full tank?
I do believe a stock GS is right at 400lbs wet (oil/gas/battery)
I would see what you get with the racetech calculator and pic the nearest one. If you are street riding then I would maybe go down the next level if it says .76 and up if its above it.
Either way its better than stock, and you can always dial in a bit more preload if you want it softer
I just used the calculator on race tech's site. It only asks street or track and rider weight without gear. I get .797 So I'm thinking .80KG/MM would be the best.
Quote from: bucks1605 on May 09, 2007, 08:09:54 PM
Alright you guys have convinced me, I'm going with the race techs. I used the calculator thing to see what springs I need and it said .80KG/MM. I weigh about 180, I'm assuming this is what I should go with.
Go 0.85!
mine said I should go 0.80s but if you consider you might
a. put on weight
b. double someone
c. carry extra gear with you
etc you'll be happy you went alittle stiffer. And 0.85's are that much stiffer anyway, just gives you a better saftey margin.
I'm happy with my 0.85's for road use and touring but if I was going to ride my bike fast of for track use I'd go 0.90s or even 1.00's
Quote from: bucks1605 on May 09, 2007, 07:13:13 PM
Quote from: darb85 on May 09, 2007, 07:04:09 PM
Quote from: galahs on May 09, 2007, 07:01:41 PM
I went the sonics because they were cheaper (at the time) and they shipped to Australia.
I think new front springs are the best upgrade I have done to my bike.
I went 0.85mm/kg and am very happy with the balance of comfort and handling.
No more bottoming out, no more diving under brakes!!!
I weigh 75kg :thumb:
If you found both for the same price id go with race tech only because of the name but springs are springs in my mind.
10 pounds :laugh: I think that's about right.
race tech is what I was kinda partial towards
I'm tired of hitting a little bump and feeling that bottoming out, I'm looking forward to the better handling as well. :)
How was the install? I read a how to in the faq. I'm a pretty competant (sp) DIY, you think I'll be fine?
Im with ya man, First suspension then rear sets and clip ons. being tall doesnt really go along with this bike very well.
Quote from: bucks1605 on May 09, 2007, 06:58:50 PM
Quote from: RVertigo on May 09, 2007, 06:50:15 PM
I thought the whole advantage of sonic springs was that they're cheaper... ???
What do I know, I have progressives. :icon_mrgreen:
Yeah that's what I've heard, but I found both for $79.99.
Where???
Quote from: darb85 on May 11, 2007, 08:09:17 AM
Quote from: bucks1605 on May 09, 2007, 07:13:13 PM
Quote from: darb85 on May 09, 2007, 07:04:09 PM
Quote from: galahs on May 09, 2007, 07:01:41 PM
I went the sonics because they were cheaper (at the time) and they shipped to Australia.
I think new front springs are the best upgrade I have done to my bike.
I went 0.85mm/kg and am very happy with the balance of comfort and handling.
No more bottoming out, no more diving under brakes!!!
I weigh 75kg :thumb:
If you found both for the same price id go with race tech only because of the name but springs are springs in my mind.
10 pounds :laugh: I think that's about right.
race tech is what I was kinda partial towards
I'm tired of hitting a little bump and feeling that bottoming out, I'm looking forward to the better handling as well. :)
How was the install? I read a how to in the faq. I'm a pretty competant (sp) DIY, you think I'll be fine?
Im with ya man, First suspension then rear sets and clip ons. being tall doesnt really go along with this bike very well.
At least you don't have to worry about dropping it due to not being able to put even one foot securely on the ground..
Quote from: Jaywu on May 11, 2007, 10:32:33 AM
Quote from: bucks1605 on May 09, 2007, 06:58:50 PM
Quote from: RVertigo on May 09, 2007, 06:50:15 PM
I thought the whole advantage of sonic springs was that they're cheaper... ???
What do I know, I have progressives. :icon_mrgreen:
Yeah that's what I've heard, but I found both for $79.99.
Where???
Here http://www.indysuperbike.com/customer/home.php?cat=23782 (http://www.indysuperbike.com/customer/home.php?cat=23782)
Quote from: galahs on May 10, 2007, 09:59:46 PM
Quote from: bucks1605 on May 09, 2007, 08:09:54 PM
Alright you guys have convinced me, I'm going with the race techs. I used the calculator thing to see what springs I need and it said .80KG/MM. I weigh about 180, I'm assuming this is what I should go with.
Go 0.85!
mine said I should go 0.80s but if you consider you might
a. put on weight
b. double someone
c. carry extra gear with you
etc you'll be happy you went alittle stiffer. And 0.85's are that much stiffer anyway, just gives you a better saftey margin.
I'm happy with my 0.85's for road use and touring but if I was going to ride my bike fast of for track use I'd go 0.90s or even 1.00's
I was thinking about going with .85. If you're happy with 0.85 for touring than they should be fine for me. I think I'll get them.
Yep, definitely go with with 0.85's :thumb:
thought' I'd revive this thread instead of starting another. Just ordered my race tech's, (only took 7 months) went with 0.85's and I've got a kat 600 rear shock on its way. i recently installed a kat rear wheel. this will probably make my bike handle like a whole new bike, hopefully!
Make sure you report back.
Front springs is the first upgrade I recommend to anyone that asks me.
"Hey mate I wanna get an exhaust like yours, where did you get it"
"have you upgraded your front springs yet?"
"no" :dunno_white:
"Then be-gone!!!!" :2guns:
Quote from: galahs on March 06, 2008, 06:12:48 AM
Make sure you report back.
Front springs is the first upgrade I recommend to anyone that asks me.
"Hey mate I wanna get an exhaust like yours, where did you get it"
"have you upgraded your front springs yet?"
"no" :dunno_white:
"Then be-gone!!!!" :2guns:
I will, once I get done with all the projects i've got going on I plan on making a thread to show it all... :icon_mrgreen:
You'll like the springs with the Kat shock. The bike will handle SO much better in corners and just in general. No more diving, no bottoming out. It will feel a LOT less cushy though, mine is like riding a rock. 8)
Quote from: Teek on March 06, 2008, 07:27:30 PM
You'll like the springs with the Kat shock. The bike will handle SO much better in corners and just in general. No more diving, no bottoming out. It will feel a LOT less cushy though, mine is like riding a rock. 8)
That's what I'm most looking forward too, no more bottoming out. I hate that, and it happens all the time, the better handling is great too.
I did .90 Sonics, as I'm just shy of 200 lbs with all my gear on (lost a few pounds since I installed them! :) ) . The ride is much, much better!!! Firm and Planted, Never Bottoms.
You can see my notes from a previous post I made after the install:
Quote from: Y2K6GS500F on June 09, 2007, 02:49:20 PM
Ok, After testing various oil levels and spacer sizes, this setup seems to work best with the Sonic .90 springs, for my weight and size (5'10 @195lbs without gear, about 207lbs with helmet, boots, jacket, gloves etc..)
Total Spacer Size of about 5.65" or 143mm
(PVC cut to 5.5" and placed 1/8" thick washer on top- removable in case I lose weight :laugh: )
Fork Oil Level, as measured from top of fork tube to oil surface, 5.3" or 135 mm
(measured with forks compressed and springs, spacers, and washers removed -oil level increased about 3" with everything in)
This setup has me at a static sag of 1.4" or 35.5mm with my gear on.
The ride is 10x better than stock. It's firmer, but not at all harsh, and No more brake dive. :)
Ok, now some advice:
1) Before you start, get some painters tape and wrap it around the handle bars where they meet the clamps. Mark on the tape where they meet the two halves of the cleamp. This will help you get the bars back on the bike in exactly the same place they were.
2) Measure twice, cut once. But, just in case you messed up cuts or want to try different lengths, Lowes hardware store has 5' lengths of 1/2" of schedule 40 PVC for about $2. If you want, pick up some 12mm washers while your there -for a little fine tuning of the spacer size.
3) If possible, use a miter box to cut the PVC. You want to get the cuts as straight as possible. I used one, and they still were not perfect. But, they were real close. The PVC seems to melt during cutting making it difficult. I suppose it's not a big problem, as the spring will conform a bit to meet the spacer.
4) Get some old towels and layer them over your tank and gauges, because no matter how careful you are, some oil will spill out when you remove the old springs. The towels also provide some cushion, just in case you drop a tool on the tank when working. Tools tend to get real slippery when you working around fork oil.
Hope this helps! :thumb:
Thanks for the helpful tips, I'm sure they'll make the process a whole lot easier. What weight fork oil did you use? I'm consider 15w.
Quote from: bucks1605 on March 10, 2008, 08:08:51 AM
Thanks for the helpful tips, I'm sure they'll make the process a whole lot easier. What weight fork oil did you use? I'm consider 15w.
I went with 10w (the factory weight), as I did not remove and fully drain the forks to do the install, and I had a bottle of the 10w sitting on a shelf in the garage. I just siphoned as much of the old fork oil as I could, then I refilled it with the new oil.
I'm assuming when I do the swap, it would be good to replace the fork seals? :dunno_white:
I'm looking into doing this myself. I figured hey $350 for an exhaust, $35 for air filter and $40 for jets, whats another $100 for springs? Anyway, will the racetechs fit an '04 gs even though the site says they are for '89-'99 years? If not, what else would work? Do dealerships usually carry these springs in stock? Im goin on spring break in a couple days and doing a whole bunch of crap to my bike (as noted above) and want to make sure I have them next week. Thanks.
-Lucas
I'm not sure if the forks are the same on an '04, someone else will have to chime in on that. Another company that makes straight rate springs for the gs in sonic springs. On their site they don't say anything about specific years, but I would wait for someone else to verify. I'm doing the same thing, I go on springbreak next week, and after my trip to the keys... :icon_mrgreen: I've got a ton of work to do to my bike.
Generally do these springs come in pairs? Or when they say $89.99 is that per spring? I was looking at this website http://www.indysuperbike.com/customer/product.php?productid=106901&cat=23782&page=1 someone posted earlier and they ask for a quantity. Thanks.
-Lucas
Yeah they come in pairs. You get 2 springs, 4 preload washers, and spacer material. They used to have them for $79.99, but this is still the cheapest place I could find them. Here's a good tutorial on changing out your fork springs and oil. http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=25706.0 (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=25706.0)
Probably a stupid question, but, should I replace my fork seals when I swap in my new race techs and fork oil? I would think I should, I just wanted to make sure before I pull the trigger on the purchase. What about dust seals?
Up to you. Are you forks leaking? If yes, do them!
If not and....
- your removing the forks to do the replacement I would....
- your doing it the lazy mans method and just pulling the springs from the bike with the forks still attached, I wouldn't...
Can you get fork seals and dust seals at any dealership or is it just easier to order those along with my springs? Thanks.
-Lucas
Quote from: bucks1605 on March 12, 2008, 01:05:18 PM
Probably a stupid question, but, should I replace my fork seals when I swap in my new race techs and fork oil? I would think I should, I just wanted to make sure before I pull the trigger on the purchase. What about dust seals?
If they're not leaking I'd just leave them be. You don't need to disturb the seals to replace the springs and oil. It is a good idea to carefully check the tubes for any small dings and nicks, and lightly buff them out with some extra fine steel wool. Those are generally what cause seals to leak.
Quote from: RichDesmond on March 13, 2008, 05:17:46 PM
Quote from: bucks1605 on March 12, 2008, 01:05:18 PM
Probably a stupid question, but, should I replace my fork seals when I swap in my new race techs and fork oil? I would think I should, I just wanted to make sure before I pull the trigger on the purchase. What about dust seals?
If they're not leaking I'd just leave them be. You don't need to disturb the seals to replace the springs and oil. It is a good idea to carefully check the tubes for any small dings and nicks, and lightly buff them out with some extra fine steel wool. Those are generally what cause seals to leak.
I don't have access to my bike right now, but I'll check when I can. I don't remember them leaking before, so I think they'll be fine. Great tip on the steal wool, I knew to check for nicks and such, but I didn't know how to remove them. Thanks for the valuable input. :thumb:
Just finished the swap and I have a question. What is a typical length for the spacer? I did all the measurements and used 20mm of preload. So I cut the spacers to 81mm. But, they seem short to me.
Edit: I just went out and I know they are definitely too short. So what is a typical length on the spacer?
I don't know about "typical" since I've only done it once, but I just installed my .85 Sonics this weekend and weigh 200lbs with my jacket on. I cut a 5.5 inch spacer (140mm) and put only one washer between the spacer and spring. 5.5 got me dead even with the top of the fork, so my preload is really only the depth of the cap which I measured to be 7/8ths of an inch (0.875 inches or 22mm). IIRC, sag came out to 28-30mm so I'm happy! :cheers:
(I hate putting those caps back on while pushing down the springs.... one of them was REALLY trying to crossthread... :o)
Any reason to pick straight rate springs vs progressives? Also, I take it the heavier you are the higher spring rate you want? I'm clocking in around 250lbs these days....