I have been searching this site for information on LED direct replacement for the two 1157 tail-lights.
The major un-resolved issue I have heard about is the colour of the light used to illuminate the rear number plate. In most places (including here in Australia) the number plate must be illuminated with a white light.
There have been some major improvements in the brightness of LED tail lights in both red and white and you can buy excellent 1157 direct replacement LED options.
However I prefer the colour intensity a red LED provides, but then I'll have the problem that my number plate will also be illuminated with the red light. :cry:
A white led fixes the number plate problem but wont look as BRILLIANT RED out of the lens (and loose some intensity due to colour filtering).
I have read that Jef made an LED tail light that had red brake lights and white lights for the number plate. The perfect solution!
So what have members here with LED tail lights done?
Is there any such thing as a direct replacement 1157 red rearward firing LED that has white led side lights?
Have a look at duck smith electronics, they have some led bulbs. Also try Australian streetfighters, as they have some, I can't give you a direct link to them as I'm at work & only have them bookmarked at home.
Dude. Just get the red LEDs, then get the bolts with white LEDs built into them to hold the license plate on. That's how my bike's wired. Plate is plenty white, and the taillight is red. (It was done by the PO)
Quote from: NiceGuysFinishLast on May 27, 2007, 08:08:26 PM
Dude. Just get the red LEDs, then get the bolts with white LEDs built into them to hold the license plate on. That's how my bike's wired. Plate is plenty white, and the taillight is red. (It was done by the PO)
A picture would be nice :thumb:
and the details of how you wired it in :icon_mrgreen:
No pics as the bolts were ripped off when I didn't tighten them, and the plate flew off on the highway. Anyways, they look like a regular bolt, but have an LED in the head. Something like this: http://www.amazon.com/City-Glow-Blue-Bolt-Screws/dp/B000KBD0C4
only in white. As for the wiring, they're just spliced into the hot/ground for the taillight, that way, as soon as you turn the bike on, they're on.
Would they shine down enough onto the plate or do the need to be mounted elsewhere?
They shine on the plate fine. It's what I used. That's what I said in my first post.
check down this page for 1157 you will find the proper ones
http://autolumination.com/1156_1157.htm
I really can't be bothered with wiring up extra lighting for my number plate. I'd prefer a direct replacement.
So I am thinking of going with white led's. I'll just ensure they are super bright to compensate for going through the red lens.
Actually I might do a LED comparison.
Wait a sec just got to go check something.
6g
Red LEDs shining out the back and white LEDs firing out all sides would still be better than red shining out the sides in my opinion.
Anyway I have decided to order 3 different types of direct replacement LEDs so I can do a test (yes I'll include photos :thumb:)
I have ordered:
1 x pair of White High Intensity LEDs (see if they are strong enough behind a red lens cover)
(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2787/11573wledwhitelf2.jpg)
1 x pair of Red High Intensity LED's (so I can determine how much light I loose with the white ones and if the reduced visibility is acceptable)
(http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/193/11573wledredxk2.jpg)
1 x pair of red cluster LEDs. These have 19 LED's firing straight out the back and 16 radial LED's firing out the sides.
I want to see how this style of red LED compares to the High intensity one above.
(http://img516.imageshack.us/img516/9974/115732ledredeb6.jpg)
Personally I can't wait for this little shoot out. And yep I'll compare them to the standard filament bulbs too.
(and if your wondering, I will be using the left over bulbs in my car tail lights. They wont be going to waste :icon_mrgreen: )
Also a little piece of info to help you find the right bulb types.
1157 or BA15D Bulbs are for Brake Lights as they have Dual Contacts on the Bottom to allow for duel intensity lighting. On for Parkers, but get even brighter when brakes are applied.
1156 or BA15S Bulbs are for Indicators / Blinkers / Turn Signal Lights as they have a single contact and therefore operate at full intensity all the time.
I bought some red LED bulbs a while back & was happy with the brightness of the taillight
but found that there was minimal difference with the brake on.
Anyone driving behind you might not realize that you've applied the brake.
When you do your test, get a friend to help or just put the bike on the center stand, tie a
6 meter long piece of string to the brake lever & pull on so the brake light comes on.
You need to be at least that far back to get an idea of how a driver behind you would see it.
Let us know how it compares with the stock bulb.
Galahs, what car do you drive?
My 64 EH & my VS Commodore use the same bulb.(VT+ use a offset bayonet style)
I put the LED in the left hand side taillight & left the standard bulb in the right hand side. Then got a mate to pump the brake a few times. It was easy to see that with just the taillights on, the left was slightly brighter but with the brakes applied, the right hand side was brighter.
If you can, try this during the day & at night.
90 Corolla, LC Torana and a VT Commodore.
I will definitely be testing them on all cars before I make the switch too.
As for using the brake on the bike, I'll set up a tripod and have the camera on a timer.
Trust me I'll make sure these are comparable to the stock bulbs or I wont be using them.
They look very bright in the pics, but let us know how it pans out.
Cool.
Srinath.
is it true that the 20 dollar plug in lights actually do modulate??? I was wondering this because that would save me the 60 bucks a taillight modulator would cost me or am I just stupid and think that the two are different???
The ones I have bought don't modulate but you can get direct plug in lights that do.
http://www.cbr250.com/cbr250/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=29457&SearchTerms=led
Put them in an R1 light unit or add some spacers to fit in the stock light.
They are awesome, I have a set of burners.
James
The ultimate would be two pcb boards attatched to 1157 bayonett fittings that 1 give huge coverage of the rear lens in red and white leds shining on the number plate.
Similar to Jeffs byt with bayonett fittings so the bike wiring remains totally stock.
Quote from: bubba zanetti on May 27, 2007, 07:12:10 PM
Have a look at duck smith electronics, they have some led bulbs. Also try Australian streetfighters, as they have some, I can't give you a direct link to them as I'm at work & only have them bookmarked at home.
dude ! get with the 00's and try out delicious... http://del.icio.us (http://del.icio.us)
it makes your bookmarks portable, or well, saved and shared online.
there are others, but del rocks ! :thumb:
All right I tried them all out and took photos but they suck as my tripod conveniently went missing. Its late now so I'll try and post them in the near future.
Anyways....
First of all I must say the stock, incandescent bulbs put up a good fight and really their performance is still hard to beat, especially for the money. They are so cheap yet effective!
But I know some of you have to have LED's for the following reasons:
- LED's are the cool thing to have
- LED's have a faster response time. They light up quicker meaning drivers get a slighty quicker warning that you've hit the brakes.
- LED's use a fraction of the power that an incandescent bulb does meaning less drain on the meagre electrical system that motorbikes like the GS500 has.
- LED's are less sensitive to vibrations as they are completely solid state so should last much much longer
Now first I tested the White High Powered Led vs the Stock Globes. Put them in side by side and judged their performance.
(http://img522.imageshack.us/img522/2787/11573wledwhitelf2.jpg)
I wont lie. The incandescent bulbs blew them out of the water! The whitish-blue colour light the LED produced is very intense but.... and isn't there always a but ...... the red lens reduced the output of the bulb significantly. The intensity difference between the two globes was massive. And applying the brake saw the old incandescent bulb step further ahead.
The only thing that was good about the white LED was it lit the rear number plate up wirh white light. But even at this task the incandescent bulb did a better job.
So note. The high intensity white LEDs are STILL NOT intense enough for use in the brake lights. Not enough of their colour spectrum makes it through the red tail light lens.
As for the two red LED types I tried. They both were fairly equal when it came to running lights mode. However when it came to brake mode, the incandescent globe was still superior as its light spread further illuminating the entire lens much better. HOWEVER the LEDS had a much more intense brilliant RED light which was pretty stunning.
Of the two red LED's, the red High Intensity LED's illuminated more of the lens than the Red Cluster LED's. So they would be my choice of LED for the tail light. I think this is because they had more radial LEDs than the cluster design so it helped light up the lens reflector better.
So, the high intensity red LED's are what I'll recommend as the best direct replacement LED for the GS500's brake light. I should mention it throws a satisfactory amount of red light on your number plate. Just beware that in some places the number plate must be illuminated with a white light.
(http://img180.imageshack.us/img180/193/11573wledredxk2.jpg)
So in conclusion, the incandescent bulb is still king as a direct plug in application on the GS500 thanks to it being a cost effective option with superior illumination when the BRAKES are applied, and the fact it throws white light onto the number plate.
The high intensity red LED's I used came in second second place just infront of the cluster red leds. Both shon a brilliant RED light but when the BRAKES are applied the high intensity LED's light spread in the lens was superior.
The white high intensity LED was good, and really is fine to use. But why you would replace the cheaper incandescent globes with an expensive option like this that produces less light output? If you can bring yourself to accept that then these lights do also have to one plus over the red leds in that they illuminate your number plate in white light.
Hope this has helped you understand the pro's and cons of Direct Replacement LED lighting. As for me I think I will use the RED high intensity leds and wire up another white led to illuminate my license plate. So after all that, I'll actually be taking a NON direct replacement procedure :icon_lol:
thanks for the awesome write up! I hope to see some pictures soon.
I'm curious if you can see the individual LED's lighting up through the lense, or if it has a unified glow like a normal light bulb?
I'll try and get the photos up tonight, but I can confirm it looks like a unified glow.
Galahs,
Have you thought about the orange LED?
An incandescent bulb is not white - it does not have much blue (and indigo and violet) in its spectrum and hence appears yellow-ish when compared to a (so-called) white LED.
The coloured filters used on brake (red) and indicator (orange) lights are reasonably narrow-band, as is the spectrum produced by the LEDs. That is why you saw an obvious decrease in light intensity when you used the white LED for a brake light with the red brake light cover attached and also why it looked soooo red (and much brighter) when you used the red LED.
An orange LED may be the perfect compromise. It should have enough red so that all the power is not filtered away by the red brake light cover and also enough of the other colours in its spectrum to make the light shining on your number plate closer to the bulb.
Another thing to note is that the light intensity from the bulb is much higher than from the LEDs you have tried - to prove this, compare the bulb and any LED directly (no coloured filter in front). The bulb will light up your shed much easier than any of the LEDs you have.
The only LEDs that I have seen that come close to bulb brightness are the single LED side launching style (inside the plastic head of the LED is a little cone reflector that pushes all the light out the side - none of the light goes directly forward) - there is a picture of these in one of the other discussions about LEDs. These type of LEDs are powerful enough to go up against a 3W globe, or maybe even a 6W globe - not sure if they have a version that has two intensities for brake lights though.
What are your thoughts?
The orange LED is an interesting idea. Sounds like it has good merit. You wont get the amazing red intensity that a red LED gives but yes, it might be the best direct replacement compromise.
You are right that an incandescent bulb lights up a room better. I'd put it down to the fact an incandecent bulb has approximately a 320 degree beam. The leds would have approximately a 220 degree coverage. They don't shine backwards towards the socket very well.
Anyways I'll try and get some photos up. I have a few minutes to spare atm.
Ok, looking at my photos they suck! Too blurry. I really needed to do it with a tripod.
So I will only post the two that clearly show something worth showing.
First is the White Incandecent Blub vs the White LED
(http://img472.imageshack.us/img472/9823/gs500bulbvswhitelednd7.jpg)
the second is 2 red hight output LEDs and how it changes the colour of my yellow numberplate
(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/8082/gs5002redledszy3.jpg)
Quote from: Berowra on June 08, 2007, 02:23:53 PM
Galahs,
Have you thought about the orange LED?
An incandescent bulb is not white - it does not have much blue (and indigo and violet) in its spectrum and hence appears yellow-ish when compared to a (so-called) white LED.
The coloured filters used on brake (red) and indicator (orange) lights are reasonably narrow-band, as is the spectrum produced by the LEDs. That is why you saw an obvious decrease in light intensity when you used the white LED for a brake light with the red brake light cover attached and also why it looked soooo red (and much brighter) when you used the red LED.
An orange LED may be the perfect compromise. It should have enough red so that all the power is not filtered away by the red brake light cover and also enough of the other colours in its spectrum to make the light shining on your number plate closer to the bulb.
Another thing to note is that the light intensity from the bulb is much higher than from the LEDs you have tried - to prove this, compare the bulb and any LED directly (no coloured filter in front). The bulb will light up your shed much easier than any of the LEDs you have.
The only LEDs that I have seen that come close to bulb brightness are the single LED side launching style (inside the plastic head of the LED is a little cone reflector that pushes all the light out the side - none of the light goes directly forward) - there is a picture of these in one of the other discussions about LEDs. These type of LEDs are powerful enough to go up against a 3W globe, or maybe even a 6W globe - not sure if they have a version that has two intensities for brake lights though.
What are your thoughts?
I don't think an amber LED will fare well. The light output of an LED is very narrowband. An incandescent bulb is broadband. There will be much more attenuation of the LED than the incandescent.
All right, here is the three states of the high intensity red led in daylight.
OFF
(http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/1517/redledoffdw1.jpg)
Running lights ON
(http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/8646/redledoncs5.jpg)
BRAKES APPLIED
(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/8499/redledbrakepy6.jpg)
As you can see the light outputs vary significantly between Brake and Running Lights which is what you want.
What the photo doesn't show is the full extent of the intensity of the red light. Its truly amazing when viewed through the naked eye. Much more visible than the incandescent globe.
Galahs, I am impressed with the brightness, but the real test is how do the break lights look at 20 metres (~60 feet) in daylight, or in wet daylight like today in Sydney (compared to the bulb)?
Egaeus, I agree with your point about narrowband, but the brake light cover filter bandwidth appears to be wide enough to let some of the "white" LED light through. My thinking is that the red filter roll-off is wide enough that you will lose a lot less in the orange (amber) part of the spectrum (so should be much brighter than the white LED) and the unfiltered orange will look better than red on a number plate. ...sort of a compromise.
Galahs, please excuse my spelling....
I've tested all lights from 30 meters away.
The incandescent bulbs are equal good with the high intensity RED LED's for visibility.
The incandescent bulb wins for the better Braking illumination by a small but definitely noticable factor. However in fog, I'd assume the higher intensity of the red led might make it more visible.
The White LED's were terrible at distance.
Yep and as Berowra said. If the tail light lens allow some of the light of a White LED through, then one would assume it would allow some orange light through (possibly more). However, one would be required to test this to make sure.
... only a suggestion ...
Ideally a 1157 solution with Red rearward firing LEDs and white sideways firing LED's would be best.
I jut can't see them making them unless alot of motorbikes need this type of setup.
S5
The current red LED I'm using is definitely bright enough. There is just the plate lighting problem.
Quote from: galahs on June 08, 2007, 10:40:34 PM
The incandescent bulb wins for the better Braking illumination by a small but definitely noticable factor. However in fog, I'd assume the higher intensity of the red led might make it more visible.
Because of this I decided to add some red LED bolts to my number plate holder, to increase the light output when braking.
(http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/5684/micros20wired20120holedom5.jpg)
Quote
These photos don't do the LED's full justice, but it shows that they are definitely an improvement making brakeing more distinguished from the running light.
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/galahs/gs500f/np_led_off.jpg)
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/galahs/gs500f/np_led_on.jpg)
The led is less effective from angles.
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/galahs/gs500f/np_led_side_off.jpg)
(http://i90.photobucket.com/albums/k248/galahs/gs500f/np_led_side_on.jpg)
Thanks for the right up! Do you happen to know what kind of leds they were? I am thinking of doing a LED retrofit myself. I have many leds still after my car retrofit, I might be able to make a few. Anyone have a 00 tail light cover they want to get rid of for cheap!?
No idea mate.
Red ones :dunno_white:
:laugh:
Well I have some superflux leds that are lying around.. I will wire some up in a few weeks and post results when done.
That sounds super! :laugh:
Quote from: galahs on June 08, 2007, 08:08:36 PM
All right, here is the three states of the high intensity red led in daylight.
OFF
(http://img185.imageshack.us/img185/1517/redledoffdw1.jpg)
Running lights ON
(http://img71.imageshack.us/img71/8646/redledoncs5.jpg)
BRAKES APPLIED
(http://img294.imageshack.us/img294/8499/redledbrakepy6.jpg)
Do you have a link to these led's? I want to purchase some, and these look perfect.
What do you think of these?
http://www.chromeglow.com/catalog.asp?prodid=539714&showprevnext=1 (http://www.chromeglow.com/catalog.asp?prodid=539714&showprevnext=1)
Mate I tried a pair of LED's like the ones you linked too and they weren't bright enough for my liking.
The supplier I got mine from looks like he's upgraded his supply so they use more high power Surface Mounted LED's. it should be even better than what I got!
(http://img233.imageshack.us/img233/78/115713wled1na5.jpg)
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/2pcs-BAY15D-1157-13W-High-Power-LED-Red-Stop-Tail-bulb_W0QQitemZ190206755614QQihZ009QQcategoryZ42613QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
Is that link $19 for two? Or just one?
I found some in the US. Are these the same?
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2pcs-1157-13W-High-Power-LED-Red-Stop-Tail-Bulb_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33713QQihZ009QQitemZ190206039873QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2pcs-1157-13W-High-Power-LED-Red-Stop-Tail-Bulb_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ33713QQihZ009QQitemZ190206039873QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW)
Yep that's for 2
and yep they are the same. In fact its from the same seller :thumb:
Quote from: galahs on March 18, 2008, 05:21:32 PM
Yep that's for 2
and yep they are the same. In fact its from the same seller :thumb:
Is it really? haha, I just saw that the price was in usd, so I decided to go with it. I think it actually ships from japan, not sure though. Shipping was only $2.40. Just ordered them, thanks for your help.
Don't forget to post some pics and a report on them :thumb:
Quote from: galahs on March 18, 2008, 06:11:32 PM
Don't forget to post some pics and a report on them :thumb:
Will do, I've got a lot of work I'm going to be doing here in the next week or so. I plan on making a thread showing everything I've done, assuming it all goes well and looks good. :laugh:
So I don't get it, do the LED Bolts work well? Why weren't the pics taken at night or dark...thats when they areee needed. Daytime is not a problem.
Im going to be doing a fender elimination manually, I want to take off the whole fender piece (or basically slice out that whole section that sticks out and then screw in the licene plate somewhere....but l need lights on the plates...whats a good suggestion?
Oh and the turn signals converted to flush mounts.
I tried doing photos at night, but the camera couldn't handle the contrast.
The LEDs look and work fine at night.
Dunno if I'm resuscitating a useless thread but webBikeWorld has an article on 1157 LED replacements here
http://www.webbikeworld.com/r2/led/led.htm