Earlier this week there was a horrible accident on the beltway that goes around Washington DC. A police cruiser spotted a black "crotch rocket" that may have been involved in a felony. A chase ensued on the left lane of the inside loop of the highway. The bike cut right and the car it was passing slammed on the breaks. The cruiser nailed the car from behind sending it over the median and onto oncoming traffic. 7 car accident, 2 dead, 15 injured. A horrible horrible accident.
I am not going to defend the biker- he may have been a felon and definately ran from the cops. But now the outrage has risen to the degree that MD lawmakers are talking about banning "crotch rockets" from public streets. Here is a link: http://www.wtop.com/?nid=25&sid=1154314
here is a quote:
"They are potential death machines in the wrong hands," says Delegate Bill Bronrott of Montgomery County. "I think we should look at the possibility of saying, 'Hey, these are only intended for recreational use and should be used on race courses rather than on public highways."
If you go into the read comments area you will see the degree of outrage in the community - some folks even going as far as threatening all bikers they see on the road. This is really f@$ked up.
No one has said the accident was caused by poor high speed chase technique.
On a seperate subject, there were thousands of bikes in the area last weekend for Rolling Thunder. It was really neat. Unfortunately there were quite a few single vehicle fatal accidents as well. Unknown curves, speed, trees and medians - disaster.
Well the way I see it.The Police Shouldn't Start these High Speed Pursuits in the Middle of Public.I saw where 2 Cruisers Collided the other Day Killing a Kid. :mad:
or know when to call it off, or bring in the bird
YEAH FTP!!!!! :icon_rolleyes:
Get real the cop was trying to do his job the whole article is assinine, uneducated and biased.
It's a tragedy for the family and friends of those who died but the duck on the bike is the one responsible for this loss of life.
If you can't afford to pay get the f%$k off the bike. Be a man and toke your medicine don't run like a chicken shaZam! and get people hurt and give me a bad image.
Yep I ride like a hooligan, not in town or in traffic though. As soon as I see red and blues I shut it down and usually get treated ok but dicks like this give me a bad image.
Uhh...the biker isnt responsible. He was wrong in running, but he didn't cause the accident. The police should have not chased him.
bingo!!!!!!! the cops were in the wrong :icon_confused: when I'm f%$king off I tend to pull over and be real nice if I'm stopped. I'll get out of the ticket later, why give him grief for doin his job :dunno_white: hell most the time if your nice they let ya off anyway
Give it a while, and the sh*tstorm will die down again.
This happens every few years somewhere in america: a sportbike chase ends with deadly consequences and a lawmaker uses the fear inspired by the tragedy to get some face-time with the media and to show themselves in action as a politician.
Circumstances of this particular incident aside, to quote one of the posters on the story page, a ban would be "knee-jerk socialism" at its best. I sincerely hope that in the final analysis, cooler heads will prevail and people will realize two things:
1. if you ban "bullet bikes" (whatever they are), where do you draw the line? I-4? V-twin? Horsepower? Top speed? Plastic? What about standards? cruisers? sportscars? If you put the right to chose which vehicles are on the road in the hands of the state, there is no telling how far it will go. and once you give that right up, it is exceedingly difficult to get back.
2. Whatever gets banned, the dumbasses of the world will just swing their leg over the next fastest thing they can get and keep killing themselves and others.
T*
this is why i love texas ! if the chase gets to be 110+ the cops can NOT go any more unless they have the ok from the boss man . they do this to cut down one what has happen in your state . maybe this needs to spread . you may think this is going to up on the running from cops ... its not .. its protecting the people that are on there daily 9-5 jobs
Last year in NY a biker was speeding on the highway 100mph+ and a cop going the otherway observed him, pulled a u-turn (in the tree lined median) and started to pursue him. The cop eventually lost control of his car and crashed and died. They later on found the kid from his plate number, arrested him, and charged him with the murder of the cop. The kid didn't even know the cop was back there....Running is a big no no here in NY now. It's an automatic felony. They'll always try to blame it on someone else....especially bikers..
For those not familiar with PG county, MD. allow me to elaborate:
PGPD is the closest thing the mid-Atlantic has to the LAPD. The are many in number, deal with one of the most difficult areas to enforce (the famous I-95 drug corridor and the consensus worst crime county in the DC area). They make traffic stops in packs, chase down drug dealers on a daily basis, and are notorious for being extremely aggressive.
I'm not making any judgments here, I'm only saying that they may have the most difficult law enforcement assignment in the area (district cops included) and the force has reacted by becoming aggressive and uncompromising with anyone or anything they perceive to be a criminal element.
Who knows how much crime or loss of life they deter using this philosophy over the years, but in this specific case it backfired big-time.
It is sad that public officials in the situation will be incapable (or unwilling) to look at the situation with objectivity. Nobody wants to hear that everyone involved had some degree of fault in the situation. It is more comforting to hear that one bad man or one bad machine did it all, and he or it will be taken off the streets :icon_rolleyes:
My heartfelt condolences go out to those who were killed. I hope their families receive some semblance of justice before it is all over.
Quote from: vtlion on June 02, 2007, 03:17:43 AM
Give it a while, and the sh*tstorm will die down again.
This happens every few years somewhere in america: a sportbike chase ends with deadly consequences and a lawmaker uses the fear inspired by the tragedy to get some face-time with the media and to show themselves in action as a politician.
Circumstances of this particular incident aside, to quote one of the posters on the story page, a ban would be "knee-jerk socialism" at its best. I sincerely hope that in the final analysis, cooler heads will prevail and people will realize two things:
1. if you ban "bullet bikes" (whatever they are), where do you draw the line? I-4? V-twin? Horsepower? Top speed? Plastic? What about standards? cruisers? sportscars? If you put the right to chose which vehicles are on the road in the hands of the state, there is no telling how far it will go. and once you give that right up, it is exceedingly difficult to get back.
2. Whatever gets banned, the dumbasses of the world will just swing their leg over the next fastest thing they can get and keep killing themselves and others.
Quoted for truth. Another factor to consider is the multi-million dollar civil liability the City has now incurred to the families of the victims. It is in the City's best interest to crucify the biker in the media and downplay the reckless, negligent action by the officer as much as possible. Hence the vague reference to a suspected felony and the demonization of "evil" sportbikes. Anything that can be said or done at this point to deflect the anger of the victims' families away from the City will save money when a settlement is reached.
The rule, pretty much, is that if you hit someone from behind, you're at fault. You are responsible for the front of your vehicle. The cop hit the car from behind. The cop was at fault, regardless of who he was chasing or why. The biker is a giant duck whose greatest service to society will be when he's no longer a part of it, but that doesn't change who was at fault in the collision.
And a Datsun B210 is a Potential Death Machine in the hands of the wrong person.
&
go to bronrotts website and read his list of accomplishments
hes just some yuppie shitface from bethesda who wants everybody to be stuck up pussies like himself
I just don't understand these police chases you have over there in america. You see it on the news and tv etc all the time, 1 car running chased by 10 or 11 cops at high speed on freeways etc.. Here in england if someones is being pursued and it looks like it is going to turn nasty, i.e traffic is busy, there isn't a good place to stop the escaping vehicle or the chase is escalating, the pursuiing 2 or 3 cars which is all that you tend to get in england, they back off and let a helicopter chase the car and they just follow the directions of the helicoptor and stop the car when the situation is safer again. And in a serious case they will call of the pursuit altogether. You very very rarely get more than 3 cars chasing one fugitive and if there are 3 cars the helicoptor is usually there advising them all.
yeah we are pretty much fuckin idiots about a lot of stuff over here :icon_rolleyes:
343
i agree. with all of the technology we have today I find it difficult to believe that traditional pursuit is the only option when someone flees.
http://www.unlvrebelyell.com/article.php?ID=8807
"The new GPS gum balls are simple in concept. A tiny GPS transmitter is hidden in the center of a sticky compound that looks somewhat like a golf ball. Police units in Los Angeles will shoot the GPS gum balls at fleeing vehicles. If the ball sticks, then police can back off the high-speed pursuit and track the cars using GPS monitoring equipment. Using such tactics, police may be able to place obstacles much further in front of the vehicles' path to slow them down or stop them safely, rather than having to chase the vehicle in and out of the city, potentially causing property damage and even civilian injuries."
^thats what I'm taking about.
although I don't know how likely the technology is to be used in a situation involving a motorcycle, because of the risk of a crash.
FTP
All i can say
Cars have never killed anyone.
The technology exists already to prevent chases like this. In america the 'police chase' seems to be something of a theatrical entertainment. Like a soap on the television. I mean news crews follow chases like its the MotoGP at laguna seca, commentating on whether they think the guy is going to commit suicide at the end or how many people is he going to manage to kill. This is the sort of thing which makes these police chases you have be as they are. If the news wern't allowed to do these running commentaries and the police did their job and stopped the fugitive using ALL the technology available to them then there would be no need. But as long as the police (through their image) and the fugitives (through their publicity) get rewarded in terms of being covered and fussed about it will continue. Use a helicopter, chase them with two or three cars, do not pressurise them to run, let them think they have escaped. This is all that is needed to bring these chases to an end. Not the entire of the california high way patrol all wanting a piece of the cake in stopping one man in his truck. It just seems stupid to me. But hey.
Mmmm... Cake....
Quote from: Kasumi on June 03, 2007, 01:32:49 AM
I just don't understand these police chases you have over there in america. You see it on the news and tv etc all the time, 1 car running chased by 10 or 11 cops at high speed on freeways etc.. Here in england if someones is being pursued and it looks like it is going to turn nasty, i.e traffic is busy, there isn't a good place to stop the escaping vehicle or the chase is escalating, the pursuiing 2 or 3 cars which is all that you tend to get in england, they back off and let a helicopter chase the car and they just follow the directions of the helicoptor and stop the car when the situation is safer again. And in a serious case they will call of the pursuit altogether. You very very rarely get more than 3 cars chasing one fugitive and if there are 3 cars the helicoptor is usually there advising them all.
I dont understand them either to be honest... I dont understand a -LOT- of what goes on in America nowdays.... and heck I'm only 22! I think its just people are getting stupid.... really.....really.... stupid. All this BS tv drama, glorifying people that do crap like this, the 24 hour news networks that pour over the dumbest little misdemeanors just to fill airtime...... ugh. Sometimes I wonder if news networks pay felons to go run from the cops just to up the ratings so mr CEO can get a few extra bucks for the week. :mad:
geez, this thread on this forum also??? I've already said enough on gixxer forums; all im going to say here is thats it's the COPS fault none the less, they just try to blame their mistakes on civilians so the government is not perceived as wrong.
america has turned into a police state and its police are mostly para military. we execute the poor and mentally disabled and live in a society motivated by fear, hatred and revenge. rome collapsed upon itself and so shall we
(http://img263.imageshack.us/img263/6533/repent1pp5.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
Death.....
MACHINE!!!!
DEATH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
MACHINE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
That's ridiculous. Damn near everything is a "potential death machine in the wrong hands". Maybe we should ban plastic butter knives as well... :icon_rolleyes:
Quote from: OctaneMotorsports on June 11, 2007, 06:03:17 AM
That's ridiculous. Damn near everything is a "potential death machine in the wrong hands". Maybe we should ban plastic butter knives as well... :icon_rolleyes:
fear the spork! :o
*
Quote from: RVertigo on June 03, 2007, 03:30:08 PM
Cars have never killed anyone.
No only motorcycles, cars never kill anyone cause its always the drivers fault in a car. Now motorcycles, its never the dumb f%$k that is going 100+ on a given road, its always the motorcycle that enable the dumb f%$k to go 100+ mph.
Motorcycles are like sharks, people that don't know them fear them and thus blame them for for everything. Enter reporters.....
yeah, it's like the gun debate. " guns don't kill people. Bullets do. Guns just get em going really fast" replace guns with bikes and bullets with riders :dunno_white:
Quote from: spcterry on June 11, 2007, 08:34:51 AM
yeah, it's like the gun debate. " guns don't kill people. Bullets do. Guns just get em going really fast" replace guns with bikes and bullets with riders :dunno_white:
+1
Quote from: vtlion on June 02, 2007, 11:45:58 AM
For those not familiar with PG county, MD. allow me to elaborate:
PGPD is the closest thing the mid-Atlantic has to the LAPD. The are many in number, deal with one of the most difficult areas to enforce (the famous I-95 drug corridor and the consensus worst crime county in the DC area). They make traffic stops in packs, chase down drug dealers on a daily basis, and are notorious for being extremely aggressive.
I'm not making any judgments here, I'm only saying that they may have the most difficult law enforcement assignment in the area (district cops included) and the force has reacted by becoming aggressive and uncompromising with anyone or anything they perceive to be a criminal element.
Who knows how much crime or loss of life they deter using this philosophy over the years, but in this specific case it backfired big-time.
It is sad that public officials in the situation will be incapable (or unwilling) to look at the situation with objectivity. Nobody wants to hear that everyone involved had some degree of fault in the situation. It is more comforting to hear that one bad man or one bad machine did it all, and he or it will be taken off the streets :icon_rolleyes:
My heartfelt condolences go out to those who were killed. I hope their families receive some semblance of justice before it is all over.
Not sure if it's been mentioned, but PG does have a No Chase policy in place. Guess the cop forgot that.
Oh - and I was almost run off the road in VA yesterday .. by a MD tagged Magnum. I'll post details and pix later.
This is the follow up article. http://www.wtopnews.com/?sid=1164331&nid=25
More fear mongering. Still nothing about it being the cops fault. Also interesting is the fact that they have not releaseed the footage from the cruiser and they didn't state what felony the guy was being sought for.
^^^
"What I hear is, they're rolling down the road, obeying the speed limit, and they look in their rearview mirror and here comes one, two, three or sometimes a pack of 'bullet bikes' that shoot past them at incredible speeds," he said."
Anyone from the area know that this part of his comment is laughable. NOBODY in Montgomery County Maryland obeys the speed limit (especially on the highways). To do so is actually viewed as unsafe by most in the area, because everyone else on the road is going 20 mph faster than you. He makes it sound like all the cagers are crouched behind the steering wheel, putting along on their way to church when these bikes go by. It just demonstrates the willingness of this guy to bend the truth to make the bike look like the criminal.
I am all for stiffer penalties for excessive speeding in ANY vehicle. Some of those Audis, Beamers, etc rockin' 90-100 mph on the beltway scare the sh*t out of me as much as the dreaded "bullet bikes". It sounds like he has at least finally bowed to the fact that bikes are on the same road as cars, and so should be treated equally under the law.
Quote from: vtlion on June 13, 2007, 06:11:51 AM
Anyone from the area know that this part of his comment is laughable. NOBODY in Montgomery County Maryland obeys the speed limit (especially on the highways).
Now to be fair ... when I was riding up that way 2 weeks ago I was hitting 65 on the nose .... then again, I'm still breaking in the SV so that's as fast as I could go and stay under the rpm "limit." :icon_lol: Other than that, I agree 100%. That's why I came back down through Rockville - at least I could hit some backroads that way. :thumb:
Quote from: vtlion on June 13, 2007, 06:11:51 AM
I am all for stiffer penalties for excessive speeding in ANY vehicle. Some of those Audis, Beamers, etc rockin' 90-100 mph on the beltway scare the sh*t out of me as much as the dreaded "bullet bikes". It sounds like he has at least finally bowed to the fact that bikes are on the same road as cars, and so should be treated equally under the law.
Actually - there are 2 things that really scare me about cars speeding. The Audis and Beamers who
think they know how to drive well. And the minivan drivers who just don't give a shaZam!. I saw someone road raging yesterday ... with 2 kids in the backseat - wtf.
seems to me that america is hell bent on making someone, somewhere a potential "fall guy" for any major problem. the whole, it's not my fault thing. lets discuss known facts.
1. the bike in question may or may not have been speeding and may or may not have committed a crime. (wouldn't it be something if this was mistaken identity??)
2. the cop rear-ended a car sending it into on-coming traffic
3. people lost their lives
now, who is to say that the cop was actuallly chasing anybody? since from what i understand, nobody got a tag number or anything to identify this bike in question. if the bike was going that fast that the cop couldn't get plate numbers, he is obviously going to fast for the cop to chase him down. let's think about this also. bikes are faster than cars. almost all bikes are faster than pretty much all cars. and bikes manuver and fit into places cars can't go. if the road way was that congested the cop hit someone, he should have never been engaged in the pursuit. if the bike is going that outrageously fast on a crowded highway, eventually he will more than likely wreck. in which case he will probably only cause his own death.
1st off-- Politicians lie. Especially if it gets them time in the media so it looks like they're doing something for their constituents.
#2-- The comments from ABATE were right on.
#3-- The biker quite possibly was quite possibly at some fault, but how can they be sure it was the right bike if the cop never got his tag #?? And he may not have known they were chasing him: A friend of mine from England, former undercover motorbike cop, came over to visit one time. Was speeding, but couldn't hear the siren behind him(needed a new muffler, but sirens are difficult to hear anyway, judging by the fact that a lot of people fail to pull over for ambulances). The cops set up a roadblock, and once they found out why he hadn't stopped, they let him go.
and #4-- When I went through EMT school, we were taught a little bit about driving. One of the first things we were told was that if we were involved in an accident, even if we had lights and sirens on, even if the wreck was technically the other person's fault, we would almost certainly STILL BE AT FAULT to some degree. The courts take a very dim view of public safety personnel taking risks with municipal vehicles, even when on a call, due to the fact that their profession is public safety.
I hope they catch the guy, if it was the guy who committed the supposed felony. I hope that cop realises that it was, indeed, his own fault that two people died. And I hope there isn't some knee-jerk reaction from the bureaucrats(and the oh-so-innocent public) who would like nothing more than to punish all motorcyclists.
I'm just going to conjecture an extreme situation where bikes were banned and we're all driving our cars in conjested traffic for hours on end, and I can see myself at the watercooler saying in a loud voice, "If we were only allowed to ride motorcycles it wouldn't take everybody three hours to get to work...". "Global warming is on the rise..."
exactly. the type of vehicle he was in/on should have no relavence to the situation. i drive a 1994 Plymouth Sundance to work. now, if this driver had been in a car similar to mine would they be screaming for the banning of all Plymouth Sundances? i bet if you posed this question to the politicians they would say no, that's an outrageous idea. so is the notion of banning certain bikes. no machine, car, bike, gun etc is any danger to any person if it's just sitting there all by itself. it takes a person to operate it improperly for it to be a danger to someone.
Quote from: jserio on June 14, 2007, 10:27:59 AM
exactly. the type of vehicle he was in/on should have no relavence to the situation. i drive a 1994 Plymouth Sundance to work. now, if this driver had been in a car similar to mine would they be screaming for the banning of all Plymouth Sundances? i bet if you posed this question to the politicians they would say no, that's an outrageous idea. so is the notion of banning certain bikes. no machine, car, bike, gun etc is any danger to any person if it's just sitting there all by itself. it takes a person to operate it improperly for it to be a danger to someone.
too bad everyone doesnt realize that and quit trying to blame everyone but the person that caused the incident.... I'm sticking to me theory of "people are stupid... and getting stupider by the minute." argument. Harsh I know... but darn it there are some REAL morons running around out there that need to prove the "survival of the fittest" idea. SOON.
Quote from: jserio on June 14, 2007, 10:27:59 AM
exactly. the type of vehicle he was in/on should have no relavence to the situation. i drive a 1994 Plymouth Sundance to work. now, if this driver had been in a car similar to mine would they be screaming for the banning of all Plymouth Sundances? i bet if you posed this question to the politicians they would say no, that's an outrageous idea. so is the notion of banning certain bikes. no machine, car, bike, gun etc is any danger to any person if it's just sitting there all by itself. it takes a person to operate it improperly for it to be a danger to someone.
Some vehicles attract more dangerous people (sportbikes). Those people make their own decisions, but as a whole the faster machines (car or bike) will be chosen by the dangerous people and will acquire a reputation. People crash literbikes all the time because the dangerous people can afford them. If Porsches or Corvettes were as cheap you bet your ass those drivers would be dying just as often. It's sad when people die because of their ignorance, but what we need is for new riders to spend some time learning before they bought their sportbikes. Maybe they'd learn how not to kill themselves before they actually had the opportunity to.