I would be really interested in the Ninja 650 if it weren't for that hideous fairing. It's got pretty high-tech suspension. and a big parallel twin. Being a GS fan, I'm fond of parallel twins as opposed to V-twins. If Kawasaki would wise up and produce a good naked sportbike, it would sell. It seems like Kawi only markets to squids.
The SV 650's are slightly better than the Ninja 650's. If you have the money you can turn your faird ninja into the Ern9 ( I think thats what it's called) it's the naked version of the 650 sold everywhere but in the US.
As far as the Kawi only markets to squids, no they are marketing to the people that will buy their bikes. In the US 85% ish ( I'm making that up ) but a large percent of the sportbike riders wants fairings on their bikes. It makes more sense to make them with fairings.
It's the ER-6n. Looks pretty cool. It's a shame they don't sell it here.
The 650 Ninja falls short of the SV650...of course it's leagues beyond the original SV650 but oh well. With moderate modification you can make the EX500 extremely competitive with the SV so I'm really looking forward to what people can do with them in a few years.
Quote from: Toad Rider on June 28, 2007, 12:23:53 PM
I would be really interested in the Ninja 650 if it weren't for that hideous fairing. It's got pretty high-tech suspension. and a big parallel twin. Being a GS fan, I'm fond of parallel twins as opposed to V-twins. If Kawasaki would wise up and produce a good naked sportbike, it would sell. It seems like Kawi only markets to squids.
I actually really like the Ninja 650r... I test drove one and it drives and handles really well I thought. It's not as torquey as the SV650, but it feels plenty powerful. Honestly, it feels a lot like my GS, but with more ballz. I hate the fairing as well, but I have been contemplating buying one and yanking the fairings... it looks really slick in black with the red frame... supposedly it's almost exact to the ER6-n, even I believe uses the same guages, so a naked conversion is not to difficult, just pick up an aftermarket headlight... now this is based on internet research and not actually doing it so take that for what it's worth... mostly on Ninja650.com.
There is a red Ninja 650 near where I work. Looks pretty hot. The fairing isn't THAT bad.
Anyway, I wanted to point out to you that Kawasaki does make a naked sport bike. Actually, at least two of them. One of which is my dream bike.
I do have some questions for you:
1) What makes Kawasaki's more squidly than say. . . Suzuki or Honda? Yamaha, as we all know, has the FZ1, so they get a pass, but the Z1000 is straight calamari.
2) Is there a single advantage a parallel twin would have over a V or L twin?
I'll listen off the air. Love you, love your show.
I don't think you can get squidlier than a gixxer.
I gotta keep pimping the versys, a sorta naked ninja 650.
(http://www.kawasaki.com/ImagesMain/Products/Banner/97e71c68-f649-4015-b7d2-af1da26b197d.jpg)
I would wait for that rather than getting the ninja.
inverted forks...buit it looks three stories tall..w.hat is is?
Quote from: makenzie71 on June 28, 2007, 03:17:57 PM
inverted forks...buit it looks three stories tall..w.hat is is?
http://www.kawasaki.com/Products/Detail.aspx?id=246
The versys is to the ninja 650 as the VStrom is to the SV650. Except it doesn't claim any dirt track aspirations. And it's sexy. Well except the headlight.
I'd buy one...
I'd rather have a Ulysses...the strom and that thing both look like towers.
Quote from: Jake D on June 28, 2007, 02:18:21 PM
2) Is there a single advantage a parallel twin would have over a V or L twin?
Hey that's a good question... I would guess not, I would actually think they are pretty similar (but what the hell do I know, LOL). I can tell you that the Ninja 650r didn't really feel all that different to me power wise. I had the impression that the SV650 had maybe a little more power but that was felt mostly in a twitchier? response down low, I put that down as torque (the Ninja felt smoother). But the Ninja had a good amount of torque as well. Of course I didn't ride them back to back either so kinda hard to describe differences to well... I can tell you for sure though that Ninja 650's engine looks tiny, LOL... definitely way smaller than the SV engine and the bike is more narrow than the SV, overall it was pretty comfortable (moreso than the SV in my opinion). It was a bit taller than I expected though, and you can't put any lowering links in that bad boy from what I understand. I swear it really felt like my GS if my GS was a kid and the Ninja was the same kid but a few years older... if that makes any sense... LOL.
parallel twins are just like inline 4's. Power delivery is smoother and operating range is broader. they're balanced, friendlier engines.
V-twins have two pistons on the same crank journal. They're unbalance, aggresive engines that have a tendency to "sweet spot" power ranges. Their operating range is narrower but they produce all of their power there.
Quote from: makenzie71 on June 28, 2007, 03:34:03 PM
I'd rather have a Ulysses...the strom and that thing both look like towers.
+1
Quote from: makenzie71 on June 28, 2007, 03:54:35 PM
parallel twins are just like inline 4's. Power delivery is smoother and operating range is broader. they're balanced, friendlier engines.
V-twins have two pistons on the same crank journal. They're unbalance, aggresive engines that have a tendency to "sweet spot" power ranges. Their operating range is narrower but they produce all of their power there.
Doesn't a lot of that have to do with tuning though? I mean, most inline 4 sportbikes aren't really known for smooth power delivery and broad powerband, they're pretty much tuned for high rpm power.
As for the ninja vs sv, I'd love to ride them both and find out, but no test rides in my area. From what I've read though, the SV has higher capabilities and a touchy throttle. The ninja is smoother and a bit mellower, more suited to a novice rider or someone looking for a mellow ride.
I kinda like the looks of the ninja 650, even though it's faired, but a naked one would rock. Have to see how tall the versys is though, that one could be a winner.
Power delivery from an inline is smoother...more linear. The engines themselves aren't so much tuned for higher rpm delivery as they are, in general, high rpm deliverers. A smooth, balanced engine is far more eager to produce power up top. My GSF400, for example, didn't even really start to make real power until 13,000rpm...where as a v-twin is pretty much limited to a 10k operating range simply to keep the thing from tearing it's self apart.
Quote from: Jake D on June 28, 2007, 02:18:21 PM
2) Is there a single advantage a parallel twin would have over a V or L twin?
Myself, I like the Vs and Ls, the Ls especially, but... sure... fewer camshafts, much easier to drive them, much easier to service the single head... both are equally in the airflow, so one doesn't tend to run hotter than the other... much easier to run equal-length exhaust pipes, much easier to synchronize the intakes... I'm sure there are others, that's just off the top of my head. Any popular configuration is going to have advantages and disadvantages.
You don't want equal length headers on a v-twin.
Quote from: debtman7 on June 28, 2007, 04:07:49 PM
As for the ninja vs sv, I'd love to ride them both and find out, but no test rides in my area. From what I've read though, the SV has higher capabilities and a touchy throttle. The ninja is smoother and a bit mellower, more suited to a novice rider or someone looking for a mellow ride.
Heheh I have really, REALLY lucked out as far as test rides go, I've pretty much gotten to ride everything in the class of bike that I'm looking to upgrade to, minus a couple (FZ6 and Bonneville/Thruxton). The local Duc dealer is setup so that you can pretty much test everything they have, so I rode the tricked 620(You know how much I LOVED this one LOL) and the stock 695 (S2R 800 is next LOL). The Kawi I got to ride when I took my road test, a guy I know has the 650r(all red, it was sharp) and was testing at the same time and we swapped bikes for the couple mile ride back to DMV from the lot. Honda Hawk GT was another one I was looking at, the guy that owns the closest Honda/Suzuki dealer (not the one that changed my tire... LOL) has one that he owns, it sits in their warehouse, it is completely MINT with like 1500 original miles... he was trying to sell it to me when I was looking at the SV650, GREAT little bike, a lot of fun to ride(I'm still thinking about this one actually). The 599 and SV650 (a couple actually, gen1 and gen2) I got to test out from local used sellers. SV650 was very cool, and I LOVED the 599, that's an I4... it actually felt very similar motorwise to the Ninja 650 from what I recall, but wasn't as nimble... also, it felt scarier in the top end of the range, like superfast as the revs got higher. Hmm, that's all I can think of for now... :laugh:
Quote from: makenzie71 on June 28, 2007, 04:16:29 PM
Power delivery from an inline is smoother...more linear. The engines themselves aren't so much tuned for higher rpm delivery as they are, in general, high rpm deliverers. A smooth, balanced engine is far more eager to produce power up top. My GSF400, for example, didn't even really start to make real power until 13,000rpm...where as a v-twin is pretty much limited to a 10k operating range simply to keep the thing from tearing it's self apart.
Ha that's interesting Mak, and makes a lot of sense. Funny you mention the Bandit 400, that was what I almost bought before I got my GS. On Ebay no less... from a guy in Brooklyn. When I test rode it he kept wanting me to really wind it out, to like 14k... I thought the guy was out of his mind, but as soon as the thing would get over like 10k it was like a light switch flipped on and the bike would take off. It was pretty cool and a lot of fun to ride, and I'm pretty sure had more overall power than my GS(at least it seemed to, which surprised me since it's only 400cc)... but ultimately I got a deal I couldn't refuse on the GS... plus it seemed like it would be tough to get parts for the Bandit.
The B4 is more bike than the GS but yeah it's a Buddha Loves You to source parts for in the States.
Mine, by the time I was done, had a lot of head work and a balanced crank. She peaked at 82rwhp at 17,800rpm anad spun 22k real easy. fall under 5k, though, and she died...kinda like Kaneda's bike...he he...had to part hehr out because the CDI failed and you can't buy them anywhere...and when one hits the market it's like throwing a fat chick into a pool of piranhas.
Quote from: makenzie71 on June 28, 2007, 05:07:55 PM
The B4 is more bike than the GS but yeah it's a Buddha Loves You to source parts for in the States.
Mine, by the time I was done, had a lot of head work and a balanced crank. She peaked at 82rwhp at 17,800rpm anad spun 22k real easy. fall under 5k, though, and she died...kinda like Kaneda's bike...he he...had to part hehr out because the CDI failed and you can't buy them anywhere...and when one hits the market it's like throwing a fat chick into a pool of piranhas.
82 HP?? Holy shaZam! :o
ROTF @ Fat chick > piranhas Geezus... I'm glad I didn't buy it then! Funny enough, another one of the big reasons I bought the GS over it was this site.
I would like to ask an off topic question. What makes a faired superbike or supersport a squid bike?
I probably would have gone for a ninja 650, except they are too new and couldn't find any for my $3500 price limit. I did find a dealer in ohio clearing out some for $5399 brand new though, I was really tempted by that one. After riding a few months I think the ninja 650 would have been ok. I had pretty much ruled out the sv650 though, from talking with some SV owners I got the impression that the throttle was a bit touchy and it had pretty good low end grunt. That made me nervous about my novice throttle handling skills... Most of the comparison articles I've found agreed, the sv is a great bike but the ninja is better suited to novice riders.
QuoteWhat makes a faired superbike or supersport a squid bike?
The rider.
Quote from: debtman7 on June 28, 2007, 05:26:11 PM
I probably would have gone for a ninja 650, except they are too new and couldn't find any for my $3500 price limit. I did find a dealer in ohio clearing out some for $5399 brand new though, I was really tempted by that one. After riding a few months I think the ninja 650 would have been ok. I had pretty much ruled out the sv650 though, from talking with some SV owners I got the impression that the throttle was a bit touchy and it had pretty good low end grunt. That made me nervous about my novice throttle handling skills... Most of the comparison articles I've found agreed, the sv is a great bike but the ninja is better suited to novice riders.
I hear ya, it was a very smooth bike, and quick. I really liked it, and the naked version is cool looking wish they sold it here. I could definitely be happy with one... especially getting it used for a good price and then taking off the fairings and selling them. I actually like the look and feel of the Monsters a bit better though, just a tougher looking and feeling bike to me.
I have to say, the 650r seems to sell for pretty good prices used, and also the 599 REALLY seems to go for a good price used... ultimately I want a Monster, but I'm really seeing mint 599's go for pretty cheap. I'm just a little bit afraid that the power on the 599 might tempt me to much, so that steers me away a bit.
Bottom line, I think whichever bike I get the most slamming deal on is what I'll buy... after testing all of those I could be very happy with any one of them...
Hey Toad,
There's a streetfightered 650r down here for 3k.......Dead Sexy bike....needs a good home......I'd buy it if f%$king progressive would fork over the money from my wreck
Quote from: makenzie71 on June 28, 2007, 05:37:51 PM
QuoteWhat makes a faired superbike or supersport a squid bike?
The rider.
+1