It may be that im fairly new to riding bikes but regardless of whether i pull back on the throttle or not as i ease off my clutch my bike 7 times out of 10 lurches forward a couple of times and just quits coming off a stop. any tips riding or mechanical that i can do to improve this? Id like to be able to just come off the stop by just releasing my clutch but it seems others have the same issue and have just learned to use a combination of throttle with releasing. anyway let me know any advice is gladly appreciated.
Have you done the MSF course?
Ditto MSF. I'd say practice is the best medicine.
I have three approaches:
1. Let out the clutch slowly up to the friction zone at idle. Once the bike starts moving (very slowly) or the revs go down, add throttle until it's back up, letting out a bit more clutch until you can add a lot more throttle without the engine revving freely. Before I notice, the clutch is all the way out and I'm moving. The way I describe it sounds like it would take forever to get moving, but it's actually fairly quick for a tame takeoff where you want to be polite. You certainly get moving more quickly than a car this way. This was the easiest method for me to drive sanely without having much experience with the throttle and clutch. It's also how I ride an unfamiliar bike.
2. Whack the throttle about 1/3 to 1/2 while getting the clutch out to the friction zone. When I get it right (which is always after 3 years of riding my GS) the RPM stays at exactly 6K until the wheels match speed and the clutch stops slipping. This is actually what I do most of the time lately.
3. Whack the throttle to full, and try to get to the friction zone right around when the engine gets to redline. Keep it at redline until the clutch stops slipping, and go to second gear and repeat. By this time I'm at the speed limit, so I go click-click-click-click into 6th gear and cruise, unless I'm at the track.
yea i did msf...i missed the very last class...darn alarm didnt go off. I didnt have the same problem with their bikes infact i was riding rather well during the class and thats not only what i think thats what the instructor said :)
Thanks for the tips
Quote from: Chuck on July 19, 2007, 03:11:45 PM
Ditto MSF. I'd say practice is the best medicine.
I have three approaches:
1. Let out the clutch slowly up to the friction zone at idle. Once the bike starts moving (very slowly) or the revs go down, add throttle until it's back up, letting out a bit more clutch until you can add a lot more throttle without the engine revving freely. Before I notice, the clutch is all the way out and I'm moving. The way I describe it sounds like it would take forever to get moving, but it's actually fairly quick for a tame takeoff where you want to be polite. You certainly get moving more quickly than a car this way. This was the easiest method for me to drive sanely without having much experience with the throttle and clutch. It's also how I ride an unfamiliar bike.
2. Whack the throttle about 1/3 to 1/2 while getting the clutch out to the friction zone. When I get it right (which is always after 3 years of riding my GS) the RPM stays at exactly 6K until the wheels match speed and the clutch stops slipping. This is actually what I do most of the time lately.
3. Whack the throttle to full, and try to get to the friction zone right around when the engine gets to redline. Keep it at redline until the clutch stops slipping, and go to second gear and repeat. By this time I'm at the speed limit, so I go click-click-click-click into 6th gear and cruise, unless I'm at the track.
Yay new clutch plates!
Borrow a friends standard shift car.
My father's method of going to the steepest hill within 10 miles and making me start with the parking brake 1/4 applied UP the hill will make you learn quick, or ruin a clutch.
Doing this on a motorcycle is pretty difficult, especially if it is not yours.
It's a muscle memory thing. Practice practice practice, and if you're still slipping the clutch past 10 mph you're doing it wrong.
Nice thread btw.
:thumb:
My mate , proper squid like , he bought a zx6r and he took for me a spin , ive never been so scared in my life i hate being pillion but he was driving like a proper arse ,going the wrong way up a road doing stupid mph down little roads and he cant start off to save his life! , i can pretty much smell clutch whenever he takes off , like revs 4000 rpm and u can here the clutch is rubbing its terrable , i take off on 1500 rpm and thats it no clutch just smoooooth :thumb:
You won't be able to take off with clutch alone. I don't know any vehicle where this is possible, accept maybe an old riding lawnmower. Like everyone else says, its all about practice. If the bike is lurching and dying, then you may need to give it a little more throttle as you get moving, or let the clutch out a little more slowly. I let my buddy ride my GS around a parking lot and he couldn't take off from a stop very well either. He kept asking me why it was dying. Once you get it down, it actually takes less throttle than you would think. Go to a parking lot and practice some take offs. If you can do it on other bikes, you can do it on the GS.
John
Quote from: DrtRydr23 on July 19, 2007, 08:22:16 PM
You won't be able to take off with clutch alone. I don't know any vehicle where this is possible, accept maybe an old riding lawnmower.
I've done that on a couple stick shifts, but that wont work with a gs- and probably for any bike unless ur idle is wayy to high.
most likely you are letting the clutch out to fast, with a nice smooth clutch movement you can take off using hardly any throttle :thumb:.
Quote from: CndnMax on July 19, 2007, 09:55:27 PM
Quote from: DrtRydr23 on July 19, 2007, 08:22:16 PM
You won't be able to take off with clutch alone. I don't know any vehicle where this is possible, accept maybe an old riding lawnmower.
I've done that on a couple stick shifts, but that wont work with a gs- and probably for any bike unless ur idle is wayy to high.
most likely you are letting the clutch out to fast, with a nice smooth clutch movement you can take off using hardly any throttle :thumb:.
+1
You're just letting out the clutch too fast and the engine is bogging down and stalling. Practice letting out the clutch more smoothly. I'd also suggest revving it a bit high, how high are you revving it now? It should be getting up to ~6k as you start to release the clutch. Don't go too much higher though or if you release the clutch too quickly again you run the small risk of wheeling it which you probably aren't ready for.
In summary, good thing you got a GS and not a sportbike!
It sounds to me like they had you riding a bike with lots more low end torque.
How many rpms are you dialing in to take off? I like at least 4.5k and up to about 6k for normal riding.
Quote from: DrtRydr23 on July 19, 2007, 08:22:16 PM
You won't be able to take off with clutch alone.
Haha, I do it all the time! That was one of my drills to make me super-smooth on the clutch. You can't do it uphill, but on the level it's not bad at all. It's super-easy in my truck.
As for bike vs car? I think the bike is WAAAY the hell easier to clutch and shift than a car. The convenience of having once control per appendage is paramount. (Who came up with 3 pedals in a car anyway??)
I normally get mine to roll just a hairthen bring in throttle for smooth riding.
you can take off with no clutch, as I learned when my cable poped. It's not much fun!
Quote from: iakona808 on July 19, 2007, 03:14:46 PM
yea i did msf...i missed the very last class...darn alarm didnt go off. I didnt have the same problem with their bikes infact i was riding rather well during the class and thats not only what i think thats what the instructor said :)
Thanks for the tips
If you wanted to I could show you what I do with mine in person if you wanted to meet up someday, I rarely have that problem with my bike, I just slowly pull the clutch lever out as i roll the throttle off and i engine break as i apply the breaks with it.
Every standard transmission I've owned has allowed throttle-less starting.
Yes, it takes 1 - 1 1/2 seconds of slippage to do it.
No, I don't do it all the time.
The gs (mine) will do it. It isn't exactly safe though.
Once you learn the friction point of the clutch you're not actually slipping it all the way to 2nd. You're ONLY slipping it to allow forward momentum to build up, and the engine's rpm's to match a non-bogging road surface speed.
Practice in parking lots. If you can't smoothly leave a green light EVERY SINGLE TIME, you shouldn't be on the road. It's unsafe for you and others.
If u give it the tinyest amount of constant gas , and let the clutch out , theres a point where the bike wants to move forward , u can feel it if u stand up holding the bike between ur legs , then its a lil more gas and release the clutch , but in one simple smooth motion ,
no clutch slipping , no clutch burnin , just smooth take offs
You all realize we have clutches designed for slipping, right?
If you're not slipping the clutch, you're not have any fun at all.
Quote from: Chuck on July 20, 2007, 09:24:51 PM
You all realize we have clutches designed for slipping, right?
If you're not slipping the clutch, you're not have any fun at all.
They are designed for slipping, not roasting. :icon_lol:
I've never seen anyone take off from a stop without using throttle, with any standard tranny vehicle. I could maybe see it if your rolling downhill or if you're idling really quick, but on a flat surface from a dead stop seems unlikely. I'm not saying I don't believe those of you that stated that you could do it. I am saying that it doesn't really seem worth it to try, if you don't have to.
John
sounds like i require practice practice practice! Thanks for the tremendous amount of tips. Yea i dare not go on the main roads yet ive just been putting around my neighborhood. Parking lots at 7 in the morning are my friends. I never bought the bike as a primary commuter so although this problem is giving me the slip up , i am having a lot of fun learning, all the while being as safe as i can. I just wanted to also be certain that it wasnt a mechanical issue with my bike. another question...would tightening the clutch make it easier to roll off the clutch smoothly? more control? ill try it out next sunny day...its been raining the last couple of days here in seattle....go figure.
Ive just recently got my bike to work and I need to get a tach. when i bought the bike it didnt have one and its pretty much the only thing missing from my bike, ive just been playing everything by ear. i think itd be much easier for me to look down and shoot for an rpm number on take off other than "o this sounds high enough." next paycheck im going to try to grab one.
Thanks again
What I was saying about taking off without throttle is that it's a good way to practice being smooth with the clutch, not for routinely coming off a stop light in traffic. :laugh:
+1 on What Slow Said , Indeed they can slip a lil , i mean with my mate i could smell clutch .... lol is how bad he does it , and i dont personally wanna Have to replace my Clutch Pads Often :thumb:
Quote from: iakona808 on July 20, 2007, 11:51:11 PM
sounds like i require practice practice practice! Thanks for the tremendous amount of tips. Yea i dare not go on the main roads yet ive just been putting around my neighborhood. Parking lots at 7 in the morning are my friends. I never bought the bike as a primary commuter so although this problem is giving me the slip up , i am having a lot of fun learning, all the while being as safe as i can. I just wanted to also be certain that it wasnt a mechanical issue with my bike. another question...would tightening the clutch make it easier to roll off the clutch smoothly? more control? ill try it out next sunny day...its been raining the last couple of days here in seattle....go figure.
Ive just recently got my bike to work and I need to get a tach. when i bought the bike it didnt have one and its pretty much the only thing missing from my bike, ive just been playing everything by ear. i think itd be much easier for me to look down and shoot for an rpm number on take off other than "o this sounds high enough." next paycheck im going to try to grab one.
Thanks again
It's more of a feel thing than anything else. I don't even look at the tach when I take off, and you won't either once you get comfortable. You'll probably use it more for cruising at an rpm where you can still have power when you need it.
John
An easy way to take off from a stoplight is to do what you would when starting from a stop on an incline. Get the clutch in the friction zone and give it some throttle, while keeping your foot on the rear brake. When the light turns green, release the brake and the bike should start creeping forward. At this point, you can start easing off the clutch and give it more throttle.
Probably not a good idea to do this too often though... I can imagine what it'd do to the clutch plates.