Hi. First post and I apologize if the answer already exists elsewhere. My '04 GS500 is starting to experience the very common engine knocking at idle problem. I've put 300 miles on the bike since I purchased it and it now has close to 5800 miles. Oil looks good and no oil leaks anywhere. I found via the net, a NHTSA TSB that says:
"2004 SUZUKI GS500 NHTSA* TSB Technical Service Bulletin Number: 10019746 Bulletin Date: 20-Mar-2006
ENGINE AND ENGINE COOLING:ENGINE
GS500F ENGINE KNOCK AT IDLE / A MILD BUT ANNOYING KNOCKING NOISE FROM THE CYLINDER HEAD AREA. *AK"
The TSB is for years 1994 through '05 (and i'm sure '06 as well). After going to the NHTSA site, all I could pull up is the same info shown above. How do I go about viewing more detail about the TSB? Do I have to pay the outrageous $45 fee just to view it?
I called our local powersports shop and was given a very quick quote of $200 to tear into the engine BEFORE finding what is wrong and fixing. So, I could easliy have a $500 bill for a benign knock. The shop said they didn't know what a TSB was and couldn't look up the number. Am I being lied to?
Curious to find out if anyone knows what the TSB says.
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there was an issue with the cam chain tensioner with that year. Could be the problem.
I thought it was related to the cams moving side-to-side from not having the proper spacers.
Like I said I could be wrong, just what I thought I remembered reading. :thumb:
Liars or incompetents.
Check with them if they used to sell sub-prime mortgages last year ???
If not, suggest that they should.
Cool.
Srinath.
Although I am not sure of that exact TSB number, but there is a TSB issued for the "idle" clank, "knock" to me is usually a combustion thing. The issue is that the intake cam can move laterally and bump into cam holder, not a big deal and it does no damge it just is more annoying. Mine did it for 17,000 miles on the street and an entire season of racing, so it will last.
i wonder if thats the sound i hear, but it goes away once its warm. could it possibly be out of spec valves to?
typically its with a warm engine, and is very intermentent
Thanks for the replies. I did manage to get more information from the shop about the TSB. Once I explained it to him, he seemed to know what I was talking about. I told him that I'm pretty frugal and I won't just hand them my bike without knowing an approximate cost to fix. Figure if I (and the shop) knew what was in the TSB, they could give me a better figure.
The good news is that he pulled up the TSB and told me (with the engine running and at idle) to lean the bike to the left and see if the knock diminshed. He said that this is a quick test. The TSB also listed all the part #'s of the items they would need to order to fix the poblem. Sounds pretty detailed (new cams, tappets, etc..) I asked him if I could get a copy of that and he indicated that I could. So, I'm going to go into the shop tomorrow and pick that up. When I get it, I will post the details of the TSB here in case anyone would like this information as well.
Got the TSB. Here is what it says (i'll have to type it here since the copy they gave me was bad and posting as a PDF would be unreadable).
NOTICE: This bulletin is a revision to the original Service Bulletin GS/GSX/GSX-R NO. 139 dated 5/2/2005. Please place a copy of this bulletin with your dealership's Service Bulletin bnder and GS500 Service Manual and discard the original bulletins.
Solution: This knocking noise may be caused by the camshafts walking side to side during operation due to excessive end play. The "walking" movement will not cause damage.
Note: Test the source of the noise for camshaft "walking" by cafrefully leaning the motorcycle over to th eleft (towards the sidestand) while the engine is running and continue to listen for the noise. The noise will quiet if the camshafts are loaded toward the left hand side.
Should you receive a complaint of the above described symptoms, follow the procedure in this Service Bulletin.
Parts Information (from babbittsonline.com)
Item Part Number Description Qty Price each Extended Price
1 12720-01841 Camshaft, EX 1 $111.61 $111.61
2 12710-01831 Camshaft, IN 1 $106.53 $106.53
3 12747-44000 Washer, sprocket 2 $1.95 $3.90
4 12891-15501 Tappet, EX 2 $19.73 $39.46
5 09164-22012 Washer, wave 2 $1.95 $3.90
6 09181-22132 Washer (0.7 mm) 4 $1.95 $7.80
7 11173-15502 Gasket, valve cover 1 $15.58 $15.58
8 09280-15006 Seal 4 $1.95 $7.80
Parts Total: $296.58
Procedure
1. Remove the cylinder head cover, can chain tension adjuster and camshafts (refer to Service Manual beginning on page 3-10).
Remove the sprockets and the 1.0 mm thick thrust washers from the original camshafts. These parts will be reused with the
new camshafts.
2. Replace th eexhaust tappets using the original adjustment shims.
3. Assemble each new replacement camshaft with one of the original 1.0 mm thick washers at the left side and the two 0.7 mm
thick washers mounted on each side if the wave washer on the right side.
4. Install the cam sprocket with new washers and time the camshafts (refer to Service Manual beginning on page 3-56). In the
timing position, the exhaust camshaft lobe presses on the #1 cylinder exhaust valve lifter. In this position, the bearing
surface can easily be damaged by the additional washers if care is not taken when the camshaft journal holders are
installed. To prevent damage, rotate the crankshaft 90 degrees in the reverse direction while ensuring that the chain does
not become detached from the sprockets.
5. Install the camshaft journal holders and tighten the journal holdr bolts to the specified torque. Install the cam chain
tension adjuster (refer to the Service Manual beginning on page 3-59), confirm that the cam timing is correct and adjust
tappet clearance if required (refer to Service Manual beginning on page 2-5).
Acording to the previous owner of my 97 model, the exhaust cam has had side to side play from new (slight knocking sound). I can rock the camshaft from side to side by hand when checking the shims. Just about to pass 69,000 miles and no problems so I'm just gonna leave it - I just think of it as character. I love the fact that the engine can be that loose and still run fine, my old vfr750 would have self destructed with a tenth of that play in the cam!
Oh great, they have .7mm thick washers for spacers. Wonder if I can buy them loose.
1mm and up was the only choice. Anyway, .5mm gap will be insanely noisy. My 48K miler went from .3 to .5 in the 35K to 48K mile interval where I started hearing it. The huge problem though was the fact that I had another 1/2mm to go. So I put material on the inside of the cam tower and shaved it to fit. The head was un worn, the cam tower was where it was wearing mostly.
Cool.
Srinath.
I added the prices for the parts in my post above. Got the prices from babbittsonline.com. If you know of a better place to purchase OEM parts let me know.
I love how they have you save the original $2 washers to use again, but think nothing of having you replace $218 worth of camshaft! :laugh:
Quote from: keys2heaven on October 31, 2007, 01:26:45 PM
Got the prices from babbittsonline.com. If you know of a better place to purchase OEM parts let me know.
I don't know how the prices would compare ('cause I didn't even know about
babbitsonline.com) but if you're curious you can check out the vendors on my [Parts Fiche (http://www.bbburma.net/Documents/GS500_Parts_Fiche_1.html)] page.
Looks like it's time to do some updating....
Quote from: Kerry on October 31, 2007, 01:44:35 PM
I love how they have you save the original $2 washers to use again, but think nothing of having you replace $218 worth of camshaft! :laugh:
Its $10+ and we order it as a "spacer shim - camshaft" and it shows up the the dealer's listing as "washer" so you'd hear tons of laughing as you pick up your "washer" that you just paid $10 for.
But the joke's on them. Its a super precise and perfectly made washer, so that's where the $$ is.
Cool.
Srinath.
It wouldn't be a GS500 if it didn't have that knock, it's part of the GS charm. :laugh: Mine both had it off and on starting back in 99 when I bought the 97 GS new. That engine went 88,000 miles before it was retired, JP just put a low milage replacement engine in that bike.
My 02 GS had the noise some when I first got it and it's got 55,000 miles on it now. Bought that bike used with about 4500 miles on it and think they had 10W-40 oil in it and the noise went away when I went to the 15W-40 Delvac or Retella truck oils first oil change and haven't heard it since.
Seems as best as I can recall the 97 had the noise when almost new and it went away for a long while when I was running the 15W-50 Mobil 1 syn oil. Later when I went to the 15W-40 truck oils on that bike the noise came back but the bike had a lot more miles on it then.
The knock is only heard at low idle on a hot engine. Pick up the idle speed a bit and it quits knocking. I was the first here to identify it as a camshaft sideplay knock many years ago and considered it harmless then and still do. Can't imagine anyone spending that kind of money to get rid of that harmless knock.
And srinath, yes the parts fiches show all those parts available including the .7 mm washers. Seems they added a wave washer between .7 mm washer on the right side of the 04 and later camshafts. They still hve the single washers on the left side like on the 02 and older bikes and those thrust washers are available in the 1.1,1.2, and 1.3 mm oversizes.
As it's a TSB, shouldn't Suzuki be picking up the tab?
Quote from: Kurlon on October 31, 2007, 08:04:55 PM
As it's a TSB, shouldn't Suzuki be picking up the tab?
Why? It is not a recall, which would be a safety problem. There is nothing that poses as a safety risk to the rider.
I thought this noise was to be tolerated until 50,000 miles, then rebuild ?
I'm not stating a rebuild would be required, we all know they'll run for alot longer. ;)
My 98 has done it from day one.
It wouldn't be a GS if there weren't a few rattles here and there. Mine does it continuously, especially in the summer.
If you want a quiet engine, buy a Kwakasaki Ninja 500. :icon_mrgreen:
I would almost bet, 89-95 bikes have this show only with increasing mileage. 35K was the first instance on my much used and abused 89.
GeeP - you're dreaming. EX's are a lot worse for a lot of things including a motor that just doesn't vibrate right. Its oddly quiet when you least expect it too.
Cool.
Srinath.
Endplay ? All this attention over some endplay ? It's really not an issue. If the noise bothers you, spend the time and money to correct it, and maybe it will stay away a while.
I'd bet if I were to pull valve covers and setup indicators on all of my engines I'd find they were all out of spec somewhere. That doesn't mean I'm going to start breaking seals and 'fixing' an unbroken engine.
:)