Well my car's getting on in age and it's getting about time to take the head off and start cleaning everything up. Really have no problem with that. Thing is, though, I want more power. I really want in the area of 350rwhp, but it's not necessary. The biggest hitch here is that I want to turbocharge the car. BMW has made it so that this particular car simply isn't fond of boosting without spending boo coo bucks. On the flip side, I could stab in a motor I know intimately and is built around being boosted all to hell. Here lies the dilemma.
Turbo'ing the M52 (BMW E36 328i engine) can be done simply enough using piggyback fuel injector systems. Here I would be out about $2500, doing all the work on my own. The problems here are that I will be limited to 8lbs and under...the stock internals, as a general rule, just can't handle it. I would be limited to around 265rwhp...about 80hp more than I currently throw down.
~or~
I would really like to stab a 3.0 Toyota Supra 7m-GTE and R154 transmission in the car. I would have the benefit of a motor that has been proven to take 650+ hp on stock guts, and do it reliably. It would have a tremendous aftermarket and be extremely eager to accept modifications. 25psi+ is not out of the question...ever...so long as I can supply enough fuel. The downside is that no one has ever done it before. I will have to custom fabricate the engine and transmission mounts. I could do this, basically, for about $1500 and be in the 225~250whp range. For around $4000 I would be putting down 450+ rwhp. I would also, after it's all said and done, be able to sell my current engine and transmission for around $2000.
Of course I can supply more details of either to whoever cares, but that's the basic dilemma.
while I dont particularly think either is a good idea on that car from an objective pov I'd have to say the first option isnt worth doing on the simple basis that it wont get you to your goal of 350rwhp. sounds like option 2 has the capability of reaching that, for more money.
Why don't you think either is a good idea for this car? I can't think of anything that would complement the chassis more than having more go...
Actually I just started looking at stuff and I could do the basic swap for under $1500. 89+ Turbo supras can be had for about $1000 if they're beat on. That plus a new headgasket, crank/rod bearings, and a turbo rebuild would put in the $1390 area, and I'd be able to push around 290bhp.
I can't understand this either :dunno_white:
For the money your talking you could buy an old beat up supra, or other hot car (obviously not in great condition) but then with selling the BMW you would have another lump sum to fix it up and get it running sweet as a nut... you have a new car, less work, and an engine designed for the car its in.
Like I said I'm about to have to do some work anyway, and I want more power out of her. If I wanted another car, that's what I would do...I want this car to have more juice. these are the options that lay before me.
Kasumi, 80's supra's are really really shitty for all body bits. The frame, the body panels, the interior everything except the motor are total junk. It really would need a decent body and frame to work to its potential.
Ergo, I think supra in BMW is a good idea.
Cool.
Srinath.
It's not impossible to find a decent body MKIII Supra out there...there's several around. One in my area for sale, even...for $8500. Good body cars with easy price tags are far and few between. I can buy a real beater for $1000, however, and have everything I need for a basic swap...putting another 40hp in the bimmer and likely coming ahead when I turn and sell the M52.
resale value will plummet if you swap engines. you're making a project car out of a bimmer. Far fewer people are going to be interested in a project than in an old bimmer. Of those few that would be interested would probably be like you and want to make their own.
Thats what I'm talking about.
Can you afford to deal with the car if something goes wrong with the setup? A friend of mine turbo'd his E36 M3 and 6 months later the engine looked like this:
(http://www.stanford.edu/~sanjayd/m3turbo.jpg)
That said, I've heard of people turbo'ing E36's (usually M3 more than 328i) and I've also seen a few shoehorning engines, including the Supra (usually 318i more than 328i). I'd ask on a bimmer board to get opinions on cost and reliability. Are the chassis and drivetrain going to be fine with 350 rwhp?
The bimmer people tell me it'll be fine as long as I can throw money at it like a mad man...I get stuff along the lines of "oh you should just slap this kit on...and it's on sale for only $11,455! That's a steal!" Stabbing a foreign engine in allows me to have the ability to handle holes in the block (another 7m block runs about $400 in perfect shape).
Quote from: pantablo on November 15, 2007, 10:27:46 AM
resale value will plummet if you swap engines. you're making a project car out of a bimmer. Far fewer people are going to be interested in a project than in an old bimmer. Of those few that would be interested would probably be like you and want to make their own.
Thats what I'm talking about.
Resale value went to shaZam! when someone parked their dodge on her anyway :D
However, I don't think it'd be difacult to sell a 400+whp 328i...regardless of engine...though I won't be selling her. Too much has already hindered her value to make her worth selling, so I'll be stuck with her til she's scrap.
Peetey Pablo - resale value ??? WTF, since when did anything have resale value.
Cool.
Srinath.
No first we should re-use, re-purpose, and then resell, if not recycle :)
sanjay can you tell me anything about what your friend did? Was it a kit rubo or a home-brew setup? What did he do to support it?
Right Kasumi, and he is re-using his car body, re-purposing the motor out of a rotten supra, re-fusing to listen to peetey pablo (very important but often over looked step of the re-process), and will re-sell the motor out of his bimmer before re-cycling the scrap metal out of the supra when he hacks it to pieces. I'd say he's got 5 stars from the re-tards at Gstwin :thumb:
Cool.
Srinath.
Quote from: seshadri_srinath on November 15, 2007, 12:00:00 PM
Peetey Pablo - resale value ??? WTF, since when did anything have resale value.
Cool.
Srinath.
Retards Buying Used Harleys for more than they're Worth. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Sorry I didn't mean Any Disrespect Against Harley Buying Retards here on the Board. :thumb: :thumb: Sorry I've Had a Few too Many Beers and Srinath Answered a Question I had to Ask. :laugh: :laugh:
Save the money and buy some machine tools and a small library of reference books. Then build a car. ;)
I think he did most of it himself, but I'm not sure. I'll check with him and get back to you.
Quote from: GeeP on November 15, 2007, 04:38:44 PM
Save the money and buy some machine tools and a small library of reference books. Then build a car. ;)
We build kit cars :) Built quite a few JBA's a 5exi, some really old ones i can't remeber the name of, an AC Cobra, a couple of Westfields and a Caterham Superlight.
Nothing more fun than building cars.
I really want to have a go at trying to recreate a true American street racer. Over here in England you just don't get them. You get boy racers in chavved up punto 1.2's with a bodykit that they bought from halfords and glued on. Id really like to do something like an RX7 or a Supra with a big block and custom paint job... Don't think my dad would be really interested though lol!
Quote from: sanjay on November 15, 2007, 04:43:06 PM
I think he did most of it himself, but I'm not sure. I'll check with him and get back to you.
That would be awesome. The S50 and S52 can both take a lot more abuse than the M line, so it makes me wonder what all he did. A lot of folks that do the one-off route tend to ignore or forget proper tuning...and BMW has made it so that their cars absolutely will not work under boost without fully remapping the DME, and BMW made remapping the OBDII DME next to impossible. One of my frequent-speak-to's just slapped a TD04 on his M52 and it threw a rod the second he hit around 4psi. The stock computer advances the timing to stupid levels under boost for some reason.
The complications with tuning the car to accept boost, on top of the relatively weak rods and pistons, is one of the biggest reasons I'd rather put in a motor designed entirely around boost. Actually that and the fact that I might actually come out ahead money-wise just doing the basic swap are the main pullers. I can't seem to find anyone pro-bmw who can supply me with a convincing argument to stick with the M52.
regarding resale...
while a thrashed, old and beaten bimmer might not be worth anything it surely has a market in the high school crowd that is interested in the BMW ownership experience (aka, ego driven). The market for a kit car is MUCH smaller so you're basically killing the car. It will be your toy. You'll love it but you're going to have to drive it into the ground because no one will want it for what its worth stock, let alone with all the money you're putting into it.
Thats my opinion. It doesnt matter though. You asked my opinion about the two choices and I gave it. Its up to you to do it or not. I can see why you'd want to, especially, given the current condition of the car. I would probably do the same if I had the resources you do.
pablo, this isn't about logical thought, it's about making a car go faster. (not that the speed limit changed, or that there are silly laws about selling alcohal anymore.)
yeah oyu know they don't make race tracks or anything anymore...not that the best handling consumer car ever made combined with one of the strongest, most durable motors ever created, throwing down 350~400rwhp, would ever fit on a race track anyway.
the number of race tracks built is porportainate (tx speeling) to the number of missing teef in that region of the country.
I'm sorry mak, i forgot that you live in tex-ass.
your doing what I did to my old 92 T-bird SC. The car came with a blown V6 pushing 210rwhpI hated that so I modded the thing to hell, mag powers blower,inlet plenum, throttle body and maf Sensor, Cold air intake bigger injectors and a front mount IC rased head on the SC and she gave me over 300hp. That was not enough I wanted more so I went to the junkyad and got a 5.0HO out of a mustang and started again and got around 400+rwhp out of a blown V8 include a racing shift kit and that car took mustangs, cameros and a few vets easily on the track and street. Started giving me alot of problems that was beyond my budget so I scrapped it to a junkyard for $280, No regrets it was a great car fun to build and a blast to burn Vets down the strip.