Ive searched around, but the seach function seems a little cheasy, picking out individual letters instead of prhases and words....
so here it goes. Ive got a 95 500. Im turning it into a little street fighter bobber. My goal is to chop 35 lbs off the bike. Planning to do the basic first.
RU 2970 lunchbox filter, cut the can off and run open exhaust, however I will be welding in a baffle to increase back pressure again. Im going to rejet to 150, 40, and 2 washers.
Now heres my questions that I cant find. I plan on cutting out the H pipe section, but haven't seen anyone talk about doing this. Normally removing H pipes increase power (at least large H pipes that are not flow conductive)... Anyone here experimented wthis? I know the aftermarket full exhaust has the H pipe removed.... anyone done it on the stock exhaust though?
Secondly, Im going to run 140 70 17 and 120 70 17 IRC rx-01 road winner tires, I want to regear, but I cannot make up my mind. Should I go to a 44 rear sprocket, or change the front? And if I change the front should I go to a 14 or 15. I really havnt seen anyone talk about a 14t and crusing Revs on highway.... Is 14 to much?
Are the cartridge emulators wroth the 170?
I dont like the idea of progressive springs, any of you use them? Are the GS specific springs as soft as the rest of the progressive springs out there?
Also, wheres the best place to buy the air filter and jets? read cheapest....
I would be hesitant about runnign an open pipe on this bike, or any bike because the law tends to dislike such things.
as for suspension, I'd go with the progressives springs, cartridge emulators, and a revalve kit, oh yeah, and a better back shock too. if you dont have it, the other thing is a fork brace too, you'll like that a lot.
in terms of losing weight on this bike, the exhaust is the only place I can see you'd be able to safely do it. theres tons of aftermarket pipes available you can just slip onto the stock setup(I think) someone correct me if I'm mistaken.
read this one for 14T front sprocket: http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=28026.0
these ones for progressive springs: http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=38246.40
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=37881.0
these one for other/harder springs www.racetech.com or directly http://www.racetech.com/evalving/menu/searchstreet.asp
http://www.sonicsprings.com/catalog/
this one for emulators/other front end mods: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7848723937557327814&q=gs500+katana&total=2&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0
this one on HOW TO USE SEARCH: http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=26157.0
have fun
KaMeL
Got progressives and 15w oil.It's great.The Vance and Hines exhaust doesn't have the cross pipe,so removing it shouldn't matter.IMO I'd do a 14t front sprocket.As far as dropping 35lbs let me know how you do it.I'm building from the ground up an wanna keep it light.
Your other questions are answered.
For the dropping 35 pounds part, it's gets interesting.
1) remove the gas tank. it's a good 10-12 lbs empty, and @ 6lbs / gallon for liquid, figure another 24 lbs for the fuel you won't have and install a 1 1/2 gallon ballistic plastic jobber under the seat, forward the rear fender.
2) K&N filter, that should be good for 1/2 lb savings over stock.
3) Sawzall the stock muffler off. Weld in a baffle/sock/whatever that should be good for another 5 lbs.
4) Find a 'racing' supplier for motorcycles. Replace all your bolts/nuts/axels/connecting rods with titanium. That should save you 10 lbs or so.
5) I've heard there are titanium chains and cogs too, but never seen one myself.
1-4 should only cost $1000-2000 USD.
OR
You could just drop 12 lbs of body fat, replace it with muscle, and be amazed at how 'light' and 'flickable' your gs suddenly is. It's cheaper too.
I really can't imagine it possible to shave 35 lbs off the gs and it still have a frame. There is very very little there to begin with. Compare a gs to your typical bagger, and show me what can be chopped off. I might be surprised.
:)
Yea the only way your going to shave enough of the GS is to have a solo tail, so chop the end of the subframe off completely and just have a solo seat. Reduce the tank size. Other than that nothing else can really be done, its a cheap bike and beginner bike built on an absolute budget, they have left off everything they can possibly, and kept weight down to increase performance.
So yea thats a hard task your basically guna have to build a new bike, the way to really do it though would just be stick a new engine in but you would lose performance to get a light enough engine.
Anywhos....
ohgood - muscle weighs more than fat, a fair chunk more. Hence why nearly every worlds strongest man is considered clinically obese for their height and weight measuring in the conventional way. Thats why they measure BMI (Body Mass Index) - indication of how much fat you are basically far more accurate measure of health.
I have a solo tail,and aluminum swing arm.Saves a few pounds.
Just increase the performance to counteract the weight you can't shed.
<------------------ Fit a power commander
OR, you can do something simpler yet, although it'll cost you around $8-10k. go out and buy a new CBR600RR or ZX6. (sorry, GSXRs are just ghey)
For one, I'm a welder, and Im about to go out and buy a new TIG for pre Xmas for me. Ill be needing to try it out.
Guys I apprecieate all the comments.... Let me add/modify to what has been said.
1 the entire rear "subframe" will be coming off and replaced. Replacement will be as minimamalistic as it gets with no fairing, just a small seat and a carbon fiber light bucket ill be making. I esimate about 10 - 15 lbs will be lost doing this
Replace the rearsets with gsxr ones... 4 lbs.
I would like to replace the swing arm with the aluminum gsxr one, however Im somewhat agaisnt it due to the weight gain from larger rim and tire.... Undecided.
Cutting the muffler off has to save more than 5lbs.... I estimated about 7. I dont like obnoxiously loud exhausts, which is why I will be welding in a baffle, however if that is still to loud I will be adding in a under frame (buell style) resonator
Ill be moving to a 14 tooth front sprocket I guess, thats 2 less teeth.... estimated .02 lbs... that will help.
Naturally the centerstand will be removed.... 3-5 lbs?
and I am 5' 11" and 165... not to much to loose there....
4 more questions now.
Someone with experience guide me toward progressive or straight rate springs though.... can anyone estimate a good rate for 165lbs?
I have to replace head gasket, so I want to shave the head while im at it. I believe i can go up to .050" I would like to go .030"..... is this a good safe number or can I go a little further safely?
I do 2 stroke jetski stuff, so I know about porting, but on this specific motor, what do you do to the exhaust port? Just a polish for good exhaust gas exit velocity or is diameter actually changed?
and lastly,
where the hell do I tap into the block for an oil cooler??
Thanks again.
Well if you are going to add the gsxr swing arm you might be able to buy carbon fiber rims from bst. You didnt mention prices thats why im throwing this out there. They are a company out of south africa that makes carbon fiber rims for a bunch of differnt bikes. In fact they just finished their triumph line and are working on their bmw .. But if you wanted to spend the cash and save the weight this would be one way to do it. I would also recomend chopping off the turn signals and removing the metal headlight for a lighter plastic one. Drop the chain guard and mud flap YOu could also fabricate aluminum dog bones and engine cradle. Along with possible triple tree. chop the front fender down. If you really wanted to get crazy You could eliminate the back brake system all together. :cookoo:
But whatever you do good luck.
Quote from: Foximus on December 08, 2007, 08:46:27 AM
1) [...] and I am 5' 11" and 165... not to much to loose there.... [...]
2) [...] Someone with experience guide me toward progressive or straight rate springs though.... can anyone estimate a good rate for 165lbs? [...]
answer 1) actually you could work on it a little bit :) :laugh: I'm 6.0 and not even 150 :o damn! I tried to gain weight but not much works for me...
answer 2) http://www.sonicsprings.com/catalog/calculate_spring_rate.php?osCsid=0e443c5d2a6d9dc6f796013c94eed922
it's sonic's official web site and you can calculate your spring rate over there.
good luck
KaMeL
Yea I saw the spring rate calculator after I typed that.... Im gonna go with a sonic spring 80kg.
As for the aluminum dog bones and engine cradle thats a great idea and easy to make, thanks for that.
Chopping the turn signals... lol they are just little LED clusters... Front fender may or may not stay on... havnt decided yet... and again the rear will be completely chopped off. Not even a solo tail, just a seat.
Still wondering on the head shaving, porting, and oil cooler questions though.
Quote from: Foximus on December 08, 2007, 03:13:29 PMoil cooler
Oil filter relocation kit? I know they exist for cars, i have read somewhere you can make them fit bikes. Then just plumb a cooler inline.
James
Quote from: Anakist on December 08, 2007, 10:33:51 PM
Quote from: Foximus on December 08, 2007, 03:13:29 PMoil cooler
Oil filter relocation kit? I know they exist for cars, i have read somewhere you can make them fit bikes. Then just plumb a cooler inline.
James
It would take a whole lot of machine work to move the oil filter outside of the engine and/or add a oil cooler.If you want an oil cooler just buy a GS500F engine with an oil cooler.
hrmmm.... theres gotta be some way to do it easily.... but reguardless, thats not to important at this point in time. I just figured Id get all my questions out at once.
Anyone got info on whats best to shave the head? .010" is roughly equal to 10psi and a 30 psi increase is pretty good for power..... I just dont want to have to get dished pistons to clearance valves.
Shaving the head, porting and all of that- why not get a 2smoke ?
It just hit me you're making pretty big changes, when a 2smoke would have less weight and more power without having to change much.
The oil cooler and filter relocation makes me wonder if you're planning on making this a 'stunt' bike, also.
Well.... I wasnt the one who brought up the oil filter relocation kit... I just wanted an oil cooler, But more or less Im going to try to turn this into a track bike.
If it were me, and i had my druthers I would have bought a two stroke. I know much more about tuning them.
Well... I just pulled my springs to inspect the shocks and whatnot.... turns out I already have progressive springs.... So I deffinately want a much more stiff straight rate spring... i didnt like how the front was already....
Anybody wanna buy a set of progressive springs?
Also, the spacer was missing. How long is the normal progressive spacer length? an inch correct?
do the gsxr or kat front end swap. if you going to use this as a track bike like you say then the two rotors up front and the four piston brakes that come along with them will make a huge difference on the track
what years front end? Whats different about them?
Also I ordered my RU-2970 lunchbox filter, 150/40 jets, and a 43 tooth rear sprocket today. Picked up a renthal Oring chain, and the perfect stainless baffle for my open exhaust. My clubman handlebars should be here by thursday....
Next week will be a good week. I just need to find a good tire in 140 70 17..... Opinions?
Quote from: Foximus on December 08, 2007, 08:46:27 AM
where the hell do I tap into the block for an oil cooler??
Hi Foxi, a mate asked me the same question the other week, and I have been trying to look into it too.
It seems the F models have a different sump pan (I think that's the right bit) to the non-F - there are actually two ports open for the oil cooler hoses, right at the base (having a nekkid myself, I'm going by pics in the Haynes manual).
From what I can tell, the sump is more-or-less interchangeable between F and non-F, but someone else might like to confirm that (I'm keen to know myself). Year models may be different too.
From there, you'd just have to drill a few holes in the frame to mount the oil cooler itself.
bd.
I'll be first for dibs on prog springs. How much shipped for the whole thing to 95503. Northern california?
Oh, by the way, here is a vid of what I think you're trying to produce. http://youtube.com/watch?v=mfGo2fC_o18
As a side note If you go 14t front and 44t rear you're gonna be pulling wheelies in 5th. Start out with a 15t front, then get a 14t front. I noticed a significant gain just by adding a 15t. I think once I get another bike and this is going to be my town bike, then on will go a 14t and leave it at that. There's no way you'll need to go up in the rear though with a 14t.
lol... you misunderstoon. I was debating going to a 14 tooth OR a 44 tooth, not both. I ended up doing neither and going with a 43 tooth rear.
And yea.. I saw that on youtube... I was kinda disapointed some else did the same thing, but whatever, he did a hack job, and hes a wigger.
and sure you can get first dibs on my progressive springs when I sell them.
well... just got in and installed my 43 tooth rear**. I only rode it around the block just now but I can sustain a 18" wheelie without using the clutch in first gear.
Gonna give it another spin here in a few, so Ill get a better feel for it, but the motor definitely feels like its working less. Just checked FedEx tracking and it says my lunchbox and jets just arrived at my parents house... debating if i should try to switch that out tonight before my show at 10.... probably not...
And my clubman handlebars also came in today, but I gotta go to the post office to pick them up.
tommarow will be a good day.
**For those of you wondering, 43 tooth rear is inbetween 15 and 14 front ratio wise.
43 tooth rear is between 14 and 15 front and you're sayin you managed POWER WHEELIE on GS500?? you have fuel injected GS500 or turbo charged :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
as far as I know you cant even power wheelie GS500 having 14T front sprocket :dunno_white:
video??
cheers
KaMeL
PS. I'm not questioning you or tryin' to argue... I'm just confused/wondering.
lol... hey... I did it, and held it up what... 50-60 feet?
Just cruise at 5k in 1st gear and pull back and throttle open.... front comes right up. Ive never done wheelies (other than tiney little things of a wheelie) so I was reluctant to try to pull it to high.... But yes... I power wheelied a 43tooth sprocket on a otherwise stock bike (though I advanced the ignition 7-8*)
Cant wait to install my lunchbox tommarow.... I wanna see if I can find any velocity cones to help the bottom end too, but I havnt seen any of those in forever.... old school jetski stuff...
bastids gave me the wrong main jets... something larger in size... not sure what to though... ugh.
after a short trepidation, I got my second motorcycle running again and rode up to the local powersports store and got the correct 150 jets.... so lunchbox, 150 mains, and 40 pilots are installed, I forgot to get #4 washers, so I still only have the stock 1 washer, but it pulls smooth. I cant tell if it has more power yet though... The sprocket gave the most noticable power. If this did give it more power its mostly 5k and up. Hard to tell since it has UNI replacement filter already, (but still on stock jets)... Since I havnt made my exhaust yet I drilled 4 holes in the can to let it flow a little better for the 150 mains....
Alsojust installed my clubman bars (havnt even washed my hands yet). They are nice, but idealy you need a 1" riser, otherwise they hit the fork caps and you really dont get the correct angle, and the bars angle down to much. Its doable... but idealy you need 1/2" - 1" spacers.
Quote from: Kasumi on December 07, 2007, 12:43:29 PM
Just increase the performance to counteract the weight you can't shed.
<------------------ Fit a power commander
Hey Kasumi, were you that guy who installed an EFI system onto a gs500? Cuz dude, I think that's freaking awesome. Must have took a lot of work and experimentation.
Yea me and CndnMax. It took alot of work thats for sure. We must have had several versions of the system before finally getting to one that would work. The problem we had is most EFI systems are designed for much larger bikes, so getting the right parts and the right size of system was hard work. And as you can see to get true performance you need to fit a power commander (<----) and theres not a whole lot of room under the tank once you got all the fuel injectors and EFI box squeezed in.
Quote from: Kasumi on December 20, 2007, 10:06:51 AM
Yea me and CndnMax. It took alot of work thats for sure. We must have had several versions of the system before finally getting to one that would work. The problem we had is most EFI systems are designed for much larger bikes, so getting the right parts and the right size of system was hard work. And as you can see to get true performance you need to fit a power commander (<----) and theres not a whole lot of room under the tank once you got all the fuel injectors and EFI box squeezed in.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: How many horespower did you get? I bet you can do power wheelie in 6th gear now :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
510 I hope you were jokin'... :laugh: :laugh:
Well the bike dyno'd at 97.8hp with the EFI and power commander fitted. Just for statistics i have a jardine full exhaust system and K&N pod filters other than that everything is stock. Since we had the cylinder head apart installing the EFI we had it bored out to 540cc just to try and close the gap between the EFI we were using from an SV and the small engine in the GS. That could also go some way to getting the 97.8hp. All in all i think we did a good job. Its certinally unique and much more interesting and difficult and impresive when completed to convert a bike to EFI than it is to just fit a turbo and break everything...
97.8 hp? assuming timing advance gets you perhaps up to 3-5hp.. (optimal) and pods/exhaust with rejet gets you 10-15 hp (optimal) thats still only 57 hp.... your saying the other 40 hp is gained just through using fuel injection? i dunno about that....
yeah... and removing center stand gives you about 10 horsepower + fenderectomy 3-5 HP, so all together you've got at least 70 HP :cookoo: :cookoo: :cookoo:
Hey Kasumi did you ever do a full write up with some pics on the power commander or not...I was gone for a couple of months and thougt i might have missed it. :dunno_white:
Quote from: kml.krk on December 20, 2007, 07:38:57 PM
yeah... and removing center stand gives you about 10 horsepower + fenderectomy 3-5 HP, so all together you've got at least 70 HP :cookoo: :cookoo: :cookoo:
thanks for the tips. Imma get on that.
Quote from: Foximus on December 20, 2007, 06:50:22 PM
97.8 hp? assuming timing advance gets you perhaps up to 3-5hp.. (optimal) and pods/exhaust with rejet gets you 10-15 hp (optimal) thats still only 57 hp.... your saying the other 40 hp is gained just through using fuel injection? i dunno about that....
Nah to get the true 100hp GS mod i had to bore it out to 540cc it served too purposes really because fuel injection designed for an SV uses much larger injectors than our little ol' GS can handle so we upped the capacity to close the gap and then remapped the EFI. That also increased the horsepower exponentially ( i think thats the word) because we were increasing the horsepower using fuel injection as well as upping the capacity which would again increase the gain from the EFI. Also using EFI you can better utilize your exhaust to get custom fuel injection for your setup - something you can only guess changing jets and washers on carb'd bikes.
Quote from: nastynate6695 on December 20, 2007, 08:00:07 PM
Hey Kasumi did you ever do a full write up with some pics on the power commander or not...I was gone for a couple of months and thought i might have missed it. :dunno_white:
No i never thought to do it, i was more focussed on the task! Its not a simple and easy bolt on thing tho... If you planned on racing and your racing class allowed for it it would be worth wile tho.
Quote from: Kasumi on December 20, 2007, 10:06:51 AM
Yea me and CndnMax. It took alot of work thats for sure. We must have had several versions of the system before finally getting to one that would work. The problem we had is most EFI systems are designed for much larger bikes, so getting the right parts and the right size of system was hard work. And as you can see to get true performance you need to fit a power commander (<----) and theres not a whole lot of room under the tank once you got all the fuel injectors and EFI box squeezed in.
Oh yeah, lots of work. had to resize the box to fit b/w the carbs, reshape the connectors and reshape the wires. took a few tries but we finally found the best configuration- the one that would fit just right as an avatar :laugh: :laugh:
im so confused as to if this is a joke or not...
but regardless, moving on...
So I got the K&N on and put in 40 and 150 jets which are really spot on. However Im having some trouble getting that needle jet just right. My 5-7k is weak. I think its rich, even at the stock 1 washer there is a flat spot, and with 2 washers its worse. Im about to go down to no washers, but I've never read anyone doing this....?
0 washers and 2 washers feel the exact same.... weak spot at 5-7k when WOT. 1 washer, the flat spot is still there but not as apparent...
after a few runs, im starting to think that 150 main is to big....
If I cruise at 5000 rpm, and crack WOT there is a lag, exhaust crackles, and when i get to 6500 rpm the engine smooths out again.
This only happens at 5 - 6.5 k rpms and only when WOT.
When I first put the jets in with only 1 washer it accerated smooth, but the idle screws were 4-5 turns out.... Perhaps this was enough to lean out the 150 just enough....
Opinions?
oh kasumi, i win here too :cheers: :cheers:
Heh if you can fit a EFI, a power commander and then a turbo then you can beat me. If you can't oh well.
thanks for no one trying to help answer questions though.
anyhoo with oipen exhaust what you did should be alright, but seems as tho teh screws are way out. i did mine w/o the washers ( k&n lunchbox, drilled and punched exhaust) and used the almsot same combo, anyhoo as far as last question go down one tooth in front. try 1 size down on main jet/s 150 seems far too big. and finally if you can figure out how to shave 35lbs off of the bike, ( and not the rider) lemem know