So i knew i would do this one day. I cross threaded my drain plug and stripped the threads in my oil pan. Any tips on removing the oil pan? do i have to loosen or remove the headers?
Has any used a good tool to re-tap the pan that works well? where did you get it? I wanted to retap and get a plug 1 size up... but i dont know what size is 1 size up.
Take it off, then find a nice machine shop. They'll charge you $30 or $40 to put what's called a helicoil in, or just re-drill and tap the hole for another sized plug. They'll be really nice, and want to know what you're riding, if you track it, etc. Or they'll be jerks, and you'll know it's the wrong shop and move on.
OR
You can buy a helicoil kit and do it yourself.
OR
You can buy the next up drill size, hope you get it perfectly straight, and hope you get the tap perfectly straight also. The first option up there is the easiest and most likely to be painless.
:)
or what about a self tapping oversized plug? then flush some oil to get out any metal filings?
OR. you could buy my other oil pan and use it. thats very easy to do.
Eerrmmm....I am with Bob, we are thinking too hard and overlooking the obvious. No need to find machine shops or pay daft prices for helicoil kits you will only use once....find a breaker, haggle over a secondhand sump and call in at the dealer on the way home for a new gasket.......minimal cost and hassle.
Only reason I suggest it is its much cheaper, and I happen to have a second oil pan laying around that I dont need.
i dont want a helicoil, or to take it to a shop. My original question was about removing the pan... looks like you have to take off the headers.
I'm probably going to try a self tapping plug first. If that doesnt work ill look at getting a new pan, gasket, and plug.
A self tapping plug???...sorry pal, they just dont exsist.
Quote from: sledge on December 15, 2007, 05:35:31 PM
A self tapping plug???...sorry pal, they just dont exsist.
Actually they do exist. I found that the threading for my drain plug was stripped the first time I changed the oil on my GS. I went to the local auto parts store and bought a self tapping "oversized" drain plug... they had them in double and triple oversized. The drain plug has a special split design at the last half of the threads to allow it to bite into the aluminum pan and rethread it. I have not had a drop of oil leak since. If you wanted to still use the stock plug, I wouldn't advise having the pan "fixed" for $30-40, a brand new OEM pan from several sources is only about $34. If you do choose to remove the pan, it would be best to remove the headers, try some "PB blaster" if the header bolts are seized.
Never seen one in my life, pls post some info or a link.
If you are going to go the route of a self tapping plug, try and get a self tapping piggy back plug. That way, the inner plug gets loosened and not the self tapper itself.
If you can't find them at the parts shop, try quick lube shops. I stock a wide variety of self tappers and piggy backs at mine.
Helicoils are not hard to install, but you would have to buy the appropriate kit which include the drill,the tap,the installation tool, and I think 5-6 of the coils.You'd probably use it once and then throw it in a drawer never to be used again.Places like a NAPA auto parts store will either have them or can order you one.
jon
Quote from: sledge on December 16, 2007, 04:28:57 AM
Never seen one in my life, pls post some info or a link.
Jiffy lube places have them by the box.
http://www.cgenterprises.com/drain_plugs_oversize_repair.htm
I've never used on though.
Quote from: GSRider on December 16, 2007, 06:35:22 AM
If you are going to go the route of a self tapping plug, try and get a self tapping piggy back plug. That way, the inner plug gets loosened and not the self tapper itself.
If you can't find them at the parts shop, try quick lube shops. I stock a wide variety of self tappers and piggy backs at mine.
GSRider, I went looking for just that today.. they guy at the auto parts store said I'd need a 14mm-1.25 but nobody seems to have one. You have one at all?
Do you think a 14mmx1.5 would work instead of a 14mmx1.25? The thread spacing is just a little farther apart right?
Interesting things Geep, never seen them this side of the pond, very useful if you were desperate.
Bargovic?
I am going to assume the replacements are slightly oversize on the OD and retain the same pitch as the original thread. Looks like they work by recutting and reclaiming the original thread rather than by cutting a new one. If you tried to retap a 1.5 thread from a 1.25 in alloy it would just rip all the thread out completely, the plug wouldnt bite and you will be left will a clean 14mm dia` hole. Are you supposed to remove the sump from the engine before fitting these plugs or take a chance on the swarf not staying inside and getting into the oil?........If it was a sump held on with 50-plus bolts or one that couldnt be removed without a major amount of work like removing the engine or if a replacement sump was not available or hugely expensive then yeah, its a good option but in this case it seems a complicated and risky way to rectify the problem when compared with the simplicity and low cost of swapping the sump with a good 2ndhand one :dunno_white:
I guess ill do the smart thing and just replace the pan and gasket. Sucks but oh well.. at least i did it while its too cold to ride anyway. Gotta do valves, brake fluid, and plugs while its too cold too, so whats an oil pan right?
bobthebiker i sent ya a PM. How much do you want for your pan?
do you guys know of i remove the headers to get to the pan.... is there a gasket to be replaced there too?
When I needed to remove the oil pan I removed the whole exhaust system. I derusted and repainted my exhaust at that time.
I know dropping the headers would be helpful, but I'm not sure if you have to remove them or not. If you're really against removing them, try removing all the oil pan bolts and getting it off... if it doesn't work then you drop the headers anyway. There are gaskets where the headers attach to the cylinder. IMO you can reuse those gaskets a couple times. If you feel uncomfortable with this, I'm sure they're only a few bucks to replace.
Quote from: bargovic on December 16, 2007, 03:10:18 PM
Quote from: GSRider on December 16, 2007, 06:35:22 AM
If you are going to go the route of a self tapping plug, try and get a self tapping piggy back plug. That way, the inner plug gets loosened and not the self tapper itself.
If you can't find them at the parts shop, try quick lube shops. I stock a wide variety of self tappers and piggy backs at mine.
GSRider, I went looking for just that today.. they guy at the auto parts store said I'd need a 14mm-1.25 but nobody seems to have one. You have one at all?
I'll take a look today when I get in. :cheers:
[EDIT] Oh, I see you are going to replace the pan. (Good idea)
I'll still take a look-see for ya :)
[/EDIT]
sledge is right on the money in terms of getting the proper sized self tapper in thread and pitch for an aluminum pan.
Steel pans aren't nearly as fussy, but aluminum pans (Commonly found on Hondas, some Fords and Chryslers, as well as most bikes) strip out easy because the metal is so soft.
If you are doing a heli-coil, I do not recommend it because the tolerances won't be tight enough, and then you will get seepage.
Heli-coils are great where no fluid pressure will occour.
And DON'T use thread tape. That's for plumbing. Keep it for that.
There is, however, a thread "goop" I use when the heli-coil is absolutely neccesary to save thousands of dollars (Like...oh I don't know...valve cover threading). It works very well with heli-coils, and is re-applied every time you loosen the bolt to do any work.
Just remember, when using all types of self tapping plugs, to put on a GOOD quality gasket, because that gasket is going to be there for a very long time.
Oh yeah, the reason why you need to replace the pan is because of over torquing.
Get yourself a quality torque wrench and learn how to use it.
I have two in my personal collection - one is measured in inch/pounds, and the other is in foot/pounds. The smaller one I use most for engine work, and the larger one is mainly used in axle applications, and rotating my tires on the car.
Quote from: GSRider on December 18, 2007, 05:11:05 AM
Oh yeah, the reason why you need to replace the pan is because of over torquing.
Get yourself a quality torque wrench and learn how to use it.
Have a torque wrench, i was just impatient and did it by hand and F'd it up.
FWIW,
I got the pan off by removing the plastics and loosening the muffler to flex the pipes down just slightly. Then with alot of wiggling and a few curse words and sips of beer, i was able to slide pan out the kick stands side. Oh yeah, had to removed the lil mount for the plastics by the kickstand too.
But not removing the headers was nice, since those allen bolts are clearly rusted and would have stripped easily.
No luck on the regular or piggyback self tapping plug in 14x1.25.
I checked with my suppliers, and they do not carry that sizing at all.
Sounds like a lot of work to get the oil pan off.
It was a pain in my back to remove the motor today.
I need some Advil.