I got an 07' gs and I'm pretty much tip toed on it. Would it be a good decision to lower the bike about an inch or two?
I lowered mine about that amount and like it this way. Wasn't a tip toe problem for me, more to get my ancient arthritic hip up over the saddle.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=32734.msg363373#msg363373
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=7304
I just put a Katana rear shock on mine today, and now I am truly tip toed on it, and that's with a seat mod! Before I could flat foot on the left at a stop on a crowned road. Now I don't want to take it out til I lower it again, because if I put my foot in a hole I'd possibly be in big trouble. So you could mod the seat. My PO lifted the cover and reshaped the foam up front to make a lower level pocket which is actually comfortable, and there was someone looking for a stock seat that had a modded seat who wants to do a straight swap, I believe, in the For Sale/Wanted to buy forum, maybe go dig through that?
Or replace the stock links with lowering links, just get good ones. I'm ordering lowering links tonight, I think the Diamonds. I measured from my heel down, it's four inches to the ground. The Diamonds have 2 or 4 inch settings
http://www.diamondpowersports.com/lowerlinks.php (http://www.diamondpowersports.com/lowerlinks.php)
You can also find them on eBay a bit cheaper.
Muzzy makes a nice billet aluminum anodized link that I think would look nice with the front rotor, not that you'd see much of the links. Here the ZX6R links are the same as the GS's. They are 1 1/4 to 2 1/2 inches.
http://www.muzzys.com/catalog/chassis.html#links (http://www.muzzys.com/catalog/chassis.html#links)
If you lower the rear a lot you may want to lower the front end as well to keep the geometry closer to stock, as it will change the rake and trail, and the steering response. Then you will need risers to get some room, as the top of the fork tubes only have about 1/2 inch to come up before they hit the bars. So with that in mind, check the wiki for options.
http://cgi.stanford.edu/~sanjayd/gs500/Upgrades/HandlebarRisers (http://cgi.stanford.edu/~sanjayd/gs500/Upgrades/HandlebarRisers)
I'd like the Motechs, but I have already spent too much on this moto for the moment, and am contemplating spending more that I don't have yet, so they will have to wait. I'm going to try the junkyard option. I did give in a year ago and put both a riser stem and a new riser bar on my mountain bike. I think it ruined the look of my Specialized Stumpjumper (fully suspended, disc brakes, mmm!) but it's a lot more comfortable to ride, and a bit less easy to do a face plant when downhilling. 8)
gsJack, you lowered your forks as well, yes?
I lowered the front only about 1/2" and then put it back up because I wanted more lean on the stand. So I'm about 1/2" up in the front due to the taller tire and about 1" lowered in the rear net.
The Diamond links have 2 holes, one for standard height and one for 2" lower. The Muzzys ZX6 links lower about 2 1/2" using the 2nd hole, first hole gives about standard height.
So my current change in attitude of about 1 1/2" gives about 1.5 degrees more rake. Works for me. Way back when I put a 130/90 rear on which raises the rear about 1" it gave about 1 degrees less rake. That was noticeably quicker. :laugh: GS500 has about 25* rake and Ninja 500 has about 27* rake standard according to specs.
listen to jack and/or pablo they know their stuff ;) :bowdown: :bowdown:
Muzzy would NOT sell me links for a ZX6R. I suppose because I was dumb enough to call them and ask them about them! :cookoo: I could have gone back in and ordered them later, but they said the would NOT support any problems or take any responsibility for links for one bike used on another. :dunno_white:
Diamond however gave me excellent customer service, the tech compared them side to side, said sure, it'll be fine. He told me to order the parts as KAW 6-9-12, basically the version for the older Ninjas. Their GS links only have two holes, for stock and 2" lower. The difference total in length was like 1/2 inch. They also use the stronger (?) aluminum. The tech told me you could actually run this bike on ONE link, and it properly tightened, it would support the weight without risk of failure... 8)
I'm crossing fingers these get my rear back in the saddle ASAP.
Hallelujah!
I got the Diamond links a couple days ago, got them installed tonight with my best buddy working from one side and me the other.
I took a pic of the stock link and the Diamond links, which are for an early ZX6 (ordered as stated above, for a KAW6-9-12).
(http://home.earthlink.net/~roughroadstudio/linkscomp.jpg)
We put it on the bottom hole first, it was quite dramatic! Didn't cinch anything up, just looked at it, my plate was pretty close the the rear wheel. It looked like the 4" that it would have lowered a ZX. So we put it on the middle link and tightened her up.
(http://home.earthlink.net/~roughroadstudio/midset.jpg)
This setting took my seat height, which was at 30" from the lowest part (seat is modded in the foam up front) to 28", which is perfect, at least to me to let me totally flat foot it. I have not ridden it yet. Top edge of the tail piece was at 37 1/2 ", came down to 34 1/4". This is with a Katana 600 rear shock newly installed, which is what necessitated lowering the bike so I could ride it, as I was really on the tips of my toes after that mod. I could have ridden it, but it was that we do so much stopping in traffic on crappy pavement and in rough dirt on the sides of canyons that it made me want more leverage for safety's sake. It would not have been a problem on a track (not that I'm likely to get to ever ride on a track). Plus is I can maneuver it now when parking it, without having to get off and push it around. Try pushing a heavy bike on your toes (with bad knees)! The fork tubes have been slid up to the handlebars, to help offset that my rake and trail is now affected, I'm not sure how it will feel to me, I know it will slow the steering response. I'm pretty sensitive to cockpit changes and front end angles on two wheelers, and I liked it fine stock, so I may need to experiment with lowering the front end a bit more via risers to get a more stock angle, though if it was okay with gsJack it's probably going to be fine with me. I did really appreciate the quick response in the front end with it stock though. I didn't have any problem with my side stand, it's fine. The center stand however is very much harder to get the bike up on it, and it's squirrely. The bottom of the seat frame is closer to the back tire, my plate needs to be relocated higher. A little less ground clearance so I'll be scraping pegs sooner. :icon_mrgreen:
Here's a side stand angle view
(http://home.earthlink.net/~roughroadstudio/lean.jpg)
Here's a clearance view with a 150 pound, 6' tall guy on it. Note the clearance between the rear tire and the plate. I'm a little concerned about the center stand clearance, but I'm used to dual sports.
(http://home.earthlink.net/~roughroadstudio/groundright.jpg)
Because the front end is a bit higher now, I have just a touch more bend in my elbows and can cover the front brake a lot better. I'm just a bit more upright too. I'm anxious to get it out for a run tomorrow. Next up is a rejet, K&N lunchbox filter and a new can. Soon as there's some extra money, c'mon refund!
low ry da
bwaa bwa bwa bwa bwa bwa bwa bwa bwa bwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Now, if you could just drop the triples an inch or so... ohhhh but you want handle bars... hmmm
Thanks for the input Teek, it's all adding up better now. :thumb: Your Diamond ZX6-9-12 links are about 1/8" shorter than the Muzzys ZX6 links which were reported to have lowered the GS about 2 1/2" when using the 2nd hole. With the approx 5:1 ratio that's close enough since you got approx 2" lower.
I took your pic to Paint and measured your links and got 6 15/16, 7 1/2, and 8 1/16" center distances for the 3 holes. Good data to save for future ref, other inquiring minds will want to know. :)
That's a nice amount of lean you have on the center stand, you should be able to lower the front 1/2-1" without trouble. I've been thinking of going back and lowering my front again soon. Not sure how far I can go but will check it when I can, we are having blizzard like conditions here today.
(http://home.earthlink.net/~roughroadstudio/linkscomp.jpg)
Quote from: ohgood on February 10, 2008, 05:28:43 AM
low ry da
bwaa bwa bwa bwa bwa bwa bwa bwa bwa bwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
Now, if you could just drop the triples an inch or so... ohhhh but you want handle bars... hmmm
YOU
deserve your POS carbs!!! :icon_mrgreen:
The half inch down on the front end is fine. Bike seems just a bit slower in the turn response but it was probably more me a little worried about how low the back of the center stand was. I could see hitting a reverse camber curve leaned over and dragging it (at least in my slightly paranoid imagination :oops: ). The links were hitting the stand 1/3 from the top, so the stand was an inch from the stopper, we took it off and I feel better now. If we had turned the links around, it seemed there was not enough clearance to the swingarm on the bike's left side. It's more cramped than on the right.
Moved the plate up and angled it out on some simple jury rigged brackets. Plenty of clearance now.
Also, the side stand IS too tall depending on the degree of level of the parking area. If I turn it around the other way in the picture, I'd be afraid of a strong breeze pushing it over. Discovered that after I got home. It was fine however at the gas station and several dirt pullouts.
The Katana is a hard riding bastard, the bike has no cush between that and the Sonics up front. I'll play with the adjustment a bit, then may swap springs with the GS stock shock, still leaking in the garage, and reset the preload up front by changing the spacers. Man it's nice to be off of my toes though! Especially in dense traffic.
Next time out I'll go back to leaning it over more, I think the Katana in the back has evened out the handling.
Quote from: Teek on February 10, 2008, 04:50:48 PM
The links were hitting the stand 1/3 from the top, so the stand was an inch from the stopper, we took it off and I feel better now. If we had turned the links around, it seemed there was not enough clearance to the swingarm on the bike's left side. It's more cramped than on the right.
I used the first hole on my Pingel links to lower about 1 1/4 inches and had the same problem with them hitting the ctr stand so I turned them over. The two extra holes are sticking up on top and have not been a problem, plenty of clearance.
Hi gsJack,
Thanks for the info!
We'll put the center stand back on to take the rear shock out when and if it comes to that to swap springs, and then try turning the links around again while it's up, just to see. It wasn't clearance to above, it was behind and to the side, looked like it would rub. Otherwise the bike is cleaner with the stand off, squirrely now on it, like you could give it a spin. My buddy really lays the bike over a lot more than I do, he's getting into knee dragging now, I think, when he takes the GS out. He's kinda liking riding it. He likes to drag his toe currently on his DR, which has huge clearance. We ride a lot of shifty pavement. Hit a big hole today that had a manhole in the center on PCH that I have hit way too many times and so watch for it now, today gave it wide berth, but the DR went right over it. Me, with my new low rider race bike ( :laugh:) it coulda grabbed something, that center stand felt like a loose grappling hook under there.
Hey --
I got 1 1/4 inch lowering links off of Ebay, they look to be pretty good. I was a bit worried as I didn't want to have to modify the kickstand, but it still has plenty of lean AND BONUS now I can toe on both sides! The only thing we had to do was dremel off the paint inside the holes on the links as that minute layer made them too tight to install.
Have fun with it... i LOVE my naked lowered 07 and may even have a seat soon to play with :)
Cam
i got a 2 inch lower on mine heres the pic of it. the links were like 34.00 on ebay and the have gs500 engraved on the http://gstwins.com/photogallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=31
Has anyone ever broken those links? It gets me worried because of all the stress those go through because of the leverage. They are originally steel and in engineering everyone knows never replace a steel unit directly with an aluminum one because the aluminum will be a third to half as strong as steel. Plus the amount of material between each hole makes me worry, these are after all what connects your swing arm to your shock.
I asked the guy at Diamond about that, and was told the type of billet they use is extremely strong, and that the bike would be safe with ONE link! I think there has to be some BS in there, but they claim they use the latest strongest aluminum.
gsJack has been riding on links for 10s of thousands of miles, he's a solid middleweight, and he hasn't broken any yet, have you Jack?? ;)
Quote from: guitarking135 on April 25, 2008, 08:05:51 AM
i got a 2 inch lower on mine heres the pic of it. the links were like 34.00 on ebay and the have gs500 engraved on the http://gstwins.com/photogallery/displayimage.php?album=lastup&cat=0&pos=31
That looks like about 4 inches lower, wow! Maybe it's the fairings, and a stock rear shock that makes it look so low. I like the paint. 8)
Mhm i can flat foot it , and i got a harder rear shock , because the damn thing kept bottoming out with 190 ilbs on it
Quote from: qwertydude on April 25, 2008, 08:39:39 AM
Has anyone ever broken those links? It gets me worried because of all the stress those go through because of the leverage. They are originally steel and in engineering everyone knows never replace a steel unit directly with an aluminum one because the aluminum will be a third to half as strong as steel. Plus the amount of material between each hole makes me worry, these are after all what connects your swing arm to your shock.
the thing about the stress on them is they are getting pulled not pushed. they have little to no stress actually put on them. thats what the shock is for.
How tall are you folks that are lowering your bike. I'm just curious because I'm 5'8" and can flat foot my '04 with no problems. How can I tell if my bike has already been lowered? By looking at pics I don't think it has because there is quite a bit of space between the tire and the rear plastic!
just curious not trying to be mena or anything!
Mary S.
you may have longer legs? I'm 5 10 and I could touch ok but I didn't have enough legs left to move the bike very easily. If i was on a little bit of a slop I was screwed. or a rock. or a lady bug lol. PlUS, Im guesing by your name your a girl. You don't have a pee pee that gets in the way. you can get closer to the tank and the closer you are to that tank the lower it it. but mostly IM going to guess you just have longer legs most girls do
I'm just under 6' tall and shrinking, was about 6' 2" back in 99 when I got my first GS (5th bike). I've always been short in the limbs and long in the middle but with my former 30" inseam now down to 29" my heels are on the ground with knees bent a bit. IT was/is getting harder to get my arthritic hip up and over so I lowered it an inch and it's much more convenient that way. Can get back off at the end of a long day too. :laugh:
Like just mentioned those links are mostly always in tension and not heavily loaded, mild steel would work. I wouldn't worry about any of the name brand aluminum links breaking, they're stronger than oem, could be a problem if you find some cheapo cast ones somewhere. I'm just happy to get up another day and go riding again. :thumb:
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on April 25, 2008, 10:29:48 PM
How tall are you folks that are lowering your bike.
I'm 5'5" and lowered mine 2" in the back, and 1.75" in the front. I definitely feel much more comfortable with my bike lowered, except when I'm in the twisties and scrape my exhaust on the ground. :laugh:
Quote from: guitarking135 on April 25, 2008, 07:40:47 PM
Quote from: qwertydude on April 25, 2008, 08:39:39 AM
Has anyone ever broken those links? It gets me worried because of all the stress those go through because of the leverage. They are originally steel and in engineering everyone knows never replace a steel unit directly with an aluminum one because the aluminum will be a third to half as strong as steel. Plus the amount of material between each hole makes me worry, these are after all what connects your swing arm to your shock.
the thing about the stress on them is they are getting pulled not pushed. they have little to no stress actually put on them. thats what the shock is for.
True 7075 is a strong grade of aluminum but still no direct replacement for steel it's not true they are stronger just stiffer, no grade of aluminum has the tensile strentgh that steel does even mild steel, they still take all the weight of the bike under tension multpilied by the length of the swingarm. And under those kinds of repeated stress aluminum breaks. It just has me worried, if they were steel I'd have no problem. It's just aluminum has practically no elastic range so, what this equates to is that under repeated stess cycles aluminum will just break with no warning. I doubt you could run with just one, like the guy said, sure it would hold but the torsional force will definitely break the aluminum in just a few miles or bumps.
No grade? Hot rolled steels can start at 26k yield and 47k tensile while 7075 T6 is 72k yield and 82k tensile.
http://www.engineershandbook.com/Tables/steelprop.htm
http://www.engineershandbook.com/Tables/aluminumprop.htm
I've got over 20k miles on my Pingel links and I weigh over 240#. I'd stick with the name brand links from established makers and not shop for the cheapest available.
I lowered my bike last weekend, both front and rear, I picked up rear links and some clip ons on Ebay for 85 bucks and it was well spent! The bars work fine on my 07 and they really are more comfortable than the stock bars, and I have a bad back! The bike sits much lower now, not affected by cross winds as much(been blowin hard in So. Florida past couple of weeks) and seems to feel more "planted" also seems to track better thru corners, I guess it is the lower CG that makes it feel that way. Anyways it FEELS like a sportbike now only without the knees in ny chest, Suzuki should spec the GS this way from the get go.
Quote from: mojonixon on April 26, 2008, 03:37:08 PM
I lowered my bike last weekend, both front and rear, I picked up rear links and some clip ons on Ebay for 85 bucks and it was well spent! The bars work fine on my 07 and they really are more comfortable than the stock bars, and I have a bad back! The bike sits much lower now, not affected by cross winds as much(been blowin hard in So. Florida past couple of weeks) and seems to feel more "planted" also seems to track better thru corners, I guess it is the lower CG that makes it feel that way. Anyways it FEELS like a sportbike now only without the knees in ny chest, Suzuki should spec the GS this way from the get go.
I agree, I'm 5'5 or a little less now (w a shorter inseam too, not the long willowy legs of a model :cry: ), bad back, hip, knee, ankle on the right side. Now I can flat foot the left side and toe the right on a crowned road, plus I have more traction trying to move the bike with foot power (backing up, gas stations, parking, DIRT!) as I am able to have a little bend in my knees. I can't really push well with straight legs!
Cornering is great, I too also feel more stable in wind, as we get some good gusts near the ocean, and I was getting blown around a bit in a canyon Sunday but the bike handled it well. Also, I lowered mine because of the Katana 600 rear shock, which raised the seat an inch, and that was enough to make me uncomfortable. I rode a long legged girlfriend's Honda 599, and I could only tiptoe it, and that was fine for riding it around a flat parking lot and it's a super nimble and comfortable, stable bike, but I would NOT want to have been in a dirt pullout or on a steep crown with it (holding it up with just my left foot) as a little wobble too far to one side and I would not have the leverage to catch it, and it weighs more than the GS. Shorter is easier for me to leverage around with my legs. On PCH on windy days the wind shoves hard enough to push us a couple inches to the side sometimes while waiting at lights .
When I was younger toeing a 400+ pound moto was no big deal. Wait until you youngsters have a few more decades under your belts, you'll understand that Yes, we
could ride it that way But we'd rather feel safer. ;)
I'm 5'2" on a good day (when I get up in the Morning :icon_mrgreen:)
I love my bike a bit lowered. Like I mentioned though it's only 1 1/4 " lower and I didn't even have to modify the kickstand THOUGH in hindsight I should have gone 2" since the cobbler is charging me 100$ !!!! to put thicker soles on my boots!!!! Highway robbery.
Cams
I see that the ultimate yield and tensile strength is comparable, but like I said take a look at the chart again, aluminum has to have fatigue stress factored in, which all the stress must stay under in it's service life. Even the strongest 7075 has a fatigue strength of only 24 kpsi which is what ultimately engineers will consider when repeated stress is applied to aluminum. This is still lower than the yield strength of hot rolled which is the weakest steel, I doubt suzuki would use hot rolled steel for these links, I'm pretty sure the links look cold rolled to me and the stamping out of the design ought to have work hardened it some. Again I didn't design the bike and don't know how much of a safety margin is built in but just as we were taught in material sciences steel should never be directly replaced by aluminum.
Guess it is my long legs. Even though I'm 5'8" I have a 34" inseam. Thanks all for the info.
Mary S.
You could ride one of those KTM Super Dukes! They are monstrously big. You might have to toe it though. :laugh:
http://www.990superduke.com/ (http://www.990superduke.com/)
I am 5' 11", had no problem with being able to hold the bike up, I bought the links and clip ons just to try out, but after riding with it lowered for over a week now they are staying on! Ok this whole steel vs. aluminum thing, I replaced my steel wheels with Sportmax aluminum wheels on my Xb, does that mean my wheels will crumble and fail unexpectedly?! I think not. Remember this is a multi link system we are talking about here, not as much stress as you think. Just my thoughts.
I'm 5'5" and I just ordered the 2" lowering links for the rear. I have 2 questions :
1) should I also buy front lowering links? and if so, at what length - 1 inch for the front to offset the 2 inches in the back?
2) for the people that have lowered their bikes 2" or more, did you have to buy a shorter kickstand?
I'd hate to lower it and then a minute later damage the frame cause it tips over...
Sorry but there aren't lowering links for the front. You have to either switch to clip-ons, or use spacers to get enough clearance to lower your triple trees down on the fork tubes.
Edit: you will eventually want to adjust your kickstand, but you don't have to immediately.
you can cut and reweld your stock kick stand thats what i did and the front is lowred with straps on more sports bikes. honestly i droped mine two inches in the rear and didnt even mess with the front
I too was concerned about replacing a steel component with aluminium. Fortunately I found that steel lowering links for the GS500 and GS500F are on sale on UK ebay. I opted for a fairly modest reduction in height choosing the 25cm (1inch) lowering link (they also do a 45cm drop) which went straight on and has not had any harmful affect on the handling at highway speeds, but makes low speed handling/parking up so much easier. By staying close to the standard spec height I have not had to alter the forks, sidestand or centre stand on my GS500F. So far I have not managed to scrape anything despite occasionally throwing it enthusiastically into corners.
If your think you would like a lowered bike then go for it.
Quote from: mojonixon on April 27, 2008, 01:12:38 PM
I am 5' 11", had no problem with being able to hold the bike up, I bought the links and clip ons just to try out, but after riding with it lowered for over a week now they are staying on! Ok this whole steel vs. aluminum thing, I replaced my steel wheels with Sportmax aluminum wheels on my Xb, does that mean my wheels will crumble and fail unexpectedly?! I think not. Remember this is a multi link system we are talking about here, not as much stress as you think. Just my thoughts.
Those aluminum wheels are different, please read my posts carefully as I've worded them very specifically (like an engineer ought to do). I said direct replacements, as in no dimensions have changed, which is what the aluminum links do and even worse the multi-hole ones have very thin walls between each hole. You're Sportmax aluminum wheels are either of the cast or forged type, but they will have been designed to handle the stresses of supporting a car. Ever notice aluminum wheels have much thicker spokes and hubs than their steel counterparts? It's to offeset aluminum's weakness compared to steel's. You need more aluminum to get the job done and prevent failure. Why do you think you don't see 7075 aluminum stamped wheels like you see stamped steel wheels? They would be 2/3 lighter than the weight of steel, weak as hell and no fatigue resistance to speak of. When replacing aluminum with steel in a properly engineered object you must use aproximately twice as much aluminum making the weight savings only about 1/3.
And the whole reason for the multi link setup is not to distribute the loads and reduce stress, a twin shock setup does that much more effectively. It's to provide less unsprung mass and a progressive suspension action. If you think all the loads don't go through those links just remove them and watch your suspension just fall to the ground. I wish I could setup a strain guage on these parts to show that there is probably close to 600 pounds of tensile force going through those links just standing still, yes more than the weight of the bike because of the mechanical advantage of the lever arm design. This could skyrocket to well over a ton of force on impacts with bumps.
I just put the links on my wifes bike. Now can someone show me or explain to me what I need to loosen to slide the tubes up for the front. And i still dont understand what will hit the handlebars :dunno_white:
If you have stock handlebars, the fork tubes will hit when you drop the triple tree's.
Quote from: GI_JO_NATHAN on July 08, 2008, 07:03:08 PM
If you have stock handlebars, the fork tubes will hit when you drop the triple tree's.
Ehh...I still dont get it. Can someone show me what to loosen to drop the triple trees. I think ive read there is room for about .5 inch?
ok on your upper triple tree you have two brackets the grey colored n that your bars mount to and a black on underneath that. if you look at the sides of your forks at the bottom one you'll see an allen headed bolt that clamps on to your fork tubes thats what you need to loosen to move it. Just maks sure you push them through the same distance or you'll have balance issues