This is f!@#$ng terrible. Struck a curb and lost control. Pronounced dead as hospital. Wife and 4 kids......
Not sure how fast he was going or other details....
Stay safe out there. Life can end in an instant. :cry:
http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/22/clinton.motorcade/index.html?iref=topnews
R - ride
I - in
P - paradise
:cry:
Its also sad to see that 2 other officers have been killed in the last 18 months escorting Bush.
i saw that today, that is a terrible tragedy. we should all remember safety, i don't recall police in north america wearing full helmets. in europe some do. i don't know if this would have helped the officer or not but it could not have hurt.
indeed. usually those escorts are not at high speeds tho :o but something happened, i guess well see when teh official report is out :cry:
Yeah, I really want to hear the full story on this, hopefully that's not too morbid. I have no idea why police departments haven't all gone to full-face helmets or at least flip-up helmets and better body protection...unless this is a psychological thing, they don't want officers to appear too impersonal when responding to civilians. Doesn't explain why they don't supply leathers instead of the standard issue uniforms though. Compared to the officer's salary, I would expect the price of safety gear is minimal and certainly cheaper than paying for medical care for downed officers who weren't wearing gear.
Don't officers have unions who would help them get this type of reform instituted? Or do they not want to wear the safety gear?
edit: Two perfect examples of the right way, and the wrong way, to equip officers for motor duty: left side - right, right side - wrong.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Police_motorcycle#Motorcycles_used
good find on the wiki
Quote from: asobi on February 24, 2008, 08:11:19 AM
I have no idea why police departments haven't all gone to full-face helmets or at least flip-up helmets and better body protection...unless this is a psychological thing, they don't want officers to appear too impersonal when responding to civilians.
http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178482 (http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178482)
http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113241 (http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113241)
hope I dont get in trouble for posting this but here
<embed src="http://chopperpunks.com/flvplayer.swf" width="500" height="335" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" flashvars="&file=http://chopperpunks.com/m_videos/offiecrdies.flv&height=335&width=490&frontcolor=0xFFFFFF&backcolor=0x000000&lightcolor=0xFF0000&logo=&link=http://chopperpunks.com/&showdownload=false&autostart=false" />
http://chopperpunks.com/videos/officer-in-clinton-motorcade-dies-in-crash.html
looks like he hit the corner of the wall.
-why would you get in trouble for posting that video? :dunno_white:
the officer died doing one of the things he loved: riding
i'd like to hope his wife and kids are taken care of.
R-ide I-n P-aradise indeed.
ride on bro, ride on.
Quote from: ohgood on February 25, 2008, 02:16:06 PM
the officer died doing one of the things he loved: riding
i'd like to hope his wife and kids are taken care of.
R-ide I-n P-aradise indeed.
ride on bro, ride on.
Maybee he hated riding? How do you know he loved it?
i think it was she
RIP motor officer. :cry:
When I first saw a pic of the bike, I was amazed at the damage. I've seen so many motor officer demonstrations and watched so many motor officers on the road... They always seem so perfect... They can do amazing things on their bikes. What a terrible tragedy. :cry: :cry: :cry:
Quote from: CndnMax on February 24, 2008, 10:45:00 PM
looks like he hit the corner of the wall.
-why would you get in trouble for posting that video? :dunno_white:
there was some heat from the last video I posted (very graphic), thats all..
Quote from: Domindart on February 25, 2008, 08:23:02 PM
there was some heat from the last video I posted (very graphic), thats all..
Don't take it personally. Folks just get a lil"het" up around here every once in a while. ;)
Quote from: scottpA_GS on February 25, 2008, 02:29:26 PM
Quote from: ohgood on February 25, 2008, 02:16:06 PM
the officer died doing one of the things he loved: riding
i'd like to hope his wife and kids are taken care of.
R-ide I-n P-aradise indeed.
ride on bro, ride on.
Maybee he hated riding? How do you know he loved it?
It's an assumption. Haven't talked to a moto cop that said he hated the motos. Havent' talked to one single guy/gal on a motorcycle that said they hated riding either. It's pretty easy to sell a bike and drive a car.
Quote from: CndnMax on February 24, 2008, 03:10:44 PM
Quote from: asobi on February 24, 2008, 08:11:19 AM
I have no idea why police departments haven't all gone to full-face helmets or at least flip-up helmets and better body protection...unless this is a psychological thing, they don't want officers to appear too impersonal when responding to civilians.
http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178482 (http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178482)
http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113241 (http://bayarearidersforum.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=113241)
Thanks for the resources!
This issue really bugs me. To me it's as clear as approval voting - the costs are one-time, small, and EASILY outweighed by the medical costs which taxpayers will have to pay in the case of an accident without gear. The department has no excuse for not supplying gear. From the officer's side, I can respect the not wanting to look intimidating argument, but they already have switched to black uniforms from blue, and the mirrored sunglasses don't exactly help in that respect either. The mobility/comfort argument is countered by textile gear and flip-up helmets. Personally I opt for leathers and full-face, but I can see where occupationally officers may differ. There may have been an excuse for the standard cotton uniform and open-face helmet 20 years ago, but there isn't now. The progress of technology and the Hurt report have made that more than clear.
I'm going after this one. I mean, there are issues where I know that reasonable minds may disagree. The war in Iraq, what to do about illegal immigration, the drug war...all these, you can come at from different angles and that's fine, we'll settle it in the voting booth. But things like better gear for motor officers and approval voting are just plain as day. I cannot see any reason why the unions or the police departments would object to gradually outfitting officers in better protection. I plan to start writing local groups immediately and I'll offer up my open letters to others here when I've written them so you can do the same.
Edit: Upon further review, this needs more humor.
(http://images.motorcyclecruiser.com/accessoriesandgear/FF-Helmet.donut-md.jpg)
i am just guessing here but i wonder if it is not a communication issue? being able to key the mic and heard clearly...?
Quote from: frankieG on February 26, 2008, 11:49:26 AM
i am just guessing here but i wonder if it is not a communication issue? being able to key the mic and heard clearly...?
I can't imagine any scenario where a flip-up helmet would preclude communications more than an open-face helmet. It takes like 2 seconds to flip up the chin bar.
who knows but it was the only thing i could think of off the top of my head
Our state troopers here ride harleys but the amazing thing is they wear full face helmets leathers in cool weather and mesh/textile in warm weather. I was going down the road the other day and looked in my rearview mirror whilst at the stop sign and saw a harley pulling up behind me but the rider was wearing a full face helmet. Then I saw the the rest of the markings, good on them I say. Of course our state boys also have a pair of Busa's that not only do PR appearances but are also working traffic enforcement units.
I wish my city and county departments would take a cue from the OHP.
Oh wait I remeber now the OHP are weariing flip ups, better than brain buckets.
And the commo gear is installed into the helmets.
Quote from: frankieG on February 26, 2008, 12:20:18 PM
who knows but it was the only thing i could think of off the top of my head
I appreciate the discussion, and I didn't mean to snap at you...it's good if we go through all the possible rationalizations they might have for keeping the status quo before we start writing letters.
Quote from: bettingpython on February 26, 2008, 02:06:26 PM
Our state troopers here ride harleys but the amazing thing is they wear full face helmets leathers in cool weather and mesh/textile in warm weather. I was going down the road the other day and looked in my rearview mirror whilst at the stop sign and saw a harley pulling up behind me but the rider was wearing a full face helmet. Then I saw the the rest of the markings, good on them I say. Of course our state boys also have a pair of Busa's that not only do PR appearances but are also working traffic enforcement units.
I wish my city and county departments would take a cue from the OHP.
Oh wait I remeber now the OHP are weariing flip ups, better than brain buckets.
And the commo gear is installed into the helmets.
Good to know...can you provide any more information on this? Is this Ohio? And are there photos of these officers on the web somewhere? It would be good to point to other law enforcement organizations when writing to local ones.
Here's my letter to one trooper in the Oklahoma Highway Patrol. I could not find an official OHP email address; let me know if anyone else can find one.
Hi, in the wake of the fatal accident involving a motorcycle officer in Hillary Clinton's motorcade, I was interested in police department policy on protective gear for officers. The Oklahoma Highway Patrol was mentioned to me as an exemplar of good policy in this respect and I was interested in learning more about your policy on outfitting officers with flip-up helmets and leather or textile riding gear.
Does the department pay for gear or merely allow officers to purchase their own gear as long as it meets minimum specifications? How would you contrast your department's policy with other police organizations which insist on a more standard cotton or wool police uniform and open-face or half helmets for motorcycle officers?
Thank you for your time.
Yeah our Busa guys have a blogspot. http://ohpbusa.blogspot.com/
Contact information page.
http://www.dps.state.ok.us/comment/
The guy was trying to overtake the column so he was probably "speeding". It was a curve
He had only been a motorcycle cop for a few months.
Quote from: asobi on February 26, 2008, 04:45:03 PM
Here's my letter to one trooper in the Oklahoma Highway Patrol. I could not find an official OHP email address; let me know if anyone else can find one.
Hi, in the wake of the fatal accident involving a motorcycle officer in Hillary Clinton's motorcade, I was interested in police department policy on protective gear for officers. The Oklahoma Highway Patrol was mentioned to me as an exemplar of good policy in this respect and I was interested in learning more about your policy on outfitting officers with flip-up helmets and leather or textile riding gear.
Does the department pay for gear or merely allow officers to purchase their own gear as long as it meets minimum specifications? How would you contrast your department's policy with other police organizations which insist on a more standard cotton or wool police uniform and open-face or half helmets for motorcycle officers?
Thank you for your time.
And the response -- I think every police department should work like this, starting with my local PD...
Most of the protective gear worn by Oklahoma Highway Patrol troopers is not
so much mandated by policy, but rather it is standard procedure for the
members to wear the gear. The Patrol provides both 3/4 open face and full
face helmets, over the ankle leather boots, and leather jacket. At their
option and expense, members may purchase and wear full legged leather
gaiters, which are compatible with the Department issued uniform. Members
also may purchase and wear protective gloves. Most have opted to wear full
finger gloves. The helmets are mandated to be worn. The other gear is at
the discretion of the trooper. But, it is a common practice for gloves,
boots, and leather jacket (in cooler weather) to be worn.
I could not comment on how the Patrol compares with other agencies. It has
not been a research issue. We strive to provide our members with the
necessary equipment and stay current on trends and technology, especially
as it pertains to safety.
I hope this information is useful to you.
They responded pretty quick :thumb: Sounds like they do about the minimum to protect the motorcycle officers... Also sounds like they don't wear the leather when its too hot...
I guess its like bullet proof vests.. most departments don't require you to wear one, its up to you.
The busa troopers have been instrumental in getting additional gear for our troppers, a few years ago the department required only a brain bucket 1/2 helmet for troopers. Last I heard about 6 months ago they were testing summer weight mesh gear that would not interfere with standard issue gear belts. They hoped to receive approval in a year or so it's just one of those things about bueracracies it takes time to get gear approved. I do know that some of our motor unit guys have invested in Bohn under armor at their expense.
Yea... I looked at the Busa HPD blog... they are definitely pro gear :thumb:
Our cops over here are expected to wear and provided with head to toe leather gear, or i think they can do textile as well. A full face flip front helmet with comms built in. Proper race boots and a high vis over jacket. They are well protected and very visible.
We also have off-road motorcycle cops who are provided with the same protection but due to the off-road bikes they ride they don't have paint schemes but are still fitted with lights.
Kasumii what is summer weather liek in the U.K.
Her in this part of the state we have frequent summer days in the 90 degree plus range with humidity in the 60% and up range.
On my bike as long as I am moving perforated leathers are not completely intolerable but when stopped it is a brutal assualt on ones ability to not go diving naked into the nearest fire hydrant.
Hence the troopers who are actively trying to get more safety gear implemented are looking at summer weight gear approval.
We don't have a climate as such here in England. Just weather. Summer is never in the same damn place and they vary every single year. If we get a hot spell in summer here it will last for a week max but the highest i dunno high 20s in centigrade, nothing like America. I wear perfd leathers most of the time. When its too cold to wear them its usually raining so im wearing an oversuit anyway which stops the wind and they get much warmer. Occasionally i wear textile overpants so i can wear my normal clothing underneath. However i hate textile jackets i find they get way too sticky and prefer leathers on my top half.
Quote from: scottpA_GS on February 27, 2008, 05:20:23 PM
They responded pretty quick :thumb: Sounds like they do about the minimum to protect the motorcycle officers... Also sounds like they don't wear the leather when its too hot...
I guess its like bullet proof vests.. most departments don't require you to wear one, its up to you.
To me, the OHP policy is about as good as one can expect. They offer full-face helmets, leather jackets and boots to their officers, and they appear to be fine with allowing additional safety gear. As long as they pay for the essentials and beyond that allow their officers to take steps to protect themselves they've done their due diligence, in my opinion.
What bugs me is when I hear that departments don't allow "non-standard" equipment to be worn; I want to be sure that if officers want to wear full-face/flip-up helmets or textile armor to protect themselves, that is not prohibited by the department because it "looks different" than the normal uniforms. After seeing so many officers riding around with flimsy cotton/wool uniforms and open-face helmets, I have to assume that they know better but are not permitted to wear better protection by their departments. If this is not the case and they are all actively choosing not to wear gear that could save their life, then I don't know what to say, but they should consider wearing it if for no other reason than to set a good impression for other motorcyclists.
Exactly, i dunno what its like over there in the US but if you were riding round in your shorts and t-shirt with just a helmet (law) over here in England and a bike cop saw you they would more than lilkely have a friendly word about getting some gear. I can't see how you could do that in America tho.... I mean Ponch' isn't going to have a leg to stand on giving advice to some squidly McSquiderson about proper gear when hes stood there in his light brown cotten shirt and leggings with a half face helmet. Not to mention when they're driving round one handed chatting away on the CB lol.
it bothers me that a cop on his bike may not be required to wear more protective gear yet he is allowed to pull over a motorirst and give them a ticket for no seatbelt. i personally wear my seatbelt and i've got a helment allready but since i've not got a bike, the other gear can wait. but i feel if they can make seatbelts mandatory because they save lives, EVERY state should have a mandatory helment law. and i don't think the "peanut" style helments should even be on our shelves anymore. things are a bit more dangerous on the road for bikes now then they were years ago. as for officers, they are civil servants. their job is to serve and protect. you can't protect very well if you can't even protect yourself. lead my example.
agreed, but look at it this way as well, theyve got to be mobile. i.e. theve got to be able to chase a suspect, on foot. fulll leathers might not be always practical, protective definately tho.
Quote from: Kasumi on February 28, 2008, 05:36:42 PM
.... I mean Ponch' isn't going to have a leg to stand on giving advice to some squidly McSquiderson
this has replaced "squidward" in my repertoire of snappy comebacks
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on February 29, 2008, 12:01:33 AM
agreed, but look at it this way as well, theyve got to be mobile. i.e. theve got to be able to chase a suspect, on foot. fulll leathers might not be always practical, protective definately tho.
Textiles in the summer, leathers in the winter (maybe just leather jacket). You can buy gear that's mobile, it just costs more.