Just wanted to start the thread for my custom muffler build. I'm making my own muffler. From scratch. No slip ons. No pre-made stuff. The reason...I hate the look of a muffler. I'd like to just chop it off, but things like back pressure and noise level have kept me from that. So my solution will be a short and small homemade muffler. it's about 11 inches long and it will be 2.5 inches in diameter. I want it to almost look like I just chopped it off. It's going to go straight back with no bends, and almost look like a straight pipe. Very clean and simple, to make the bike as minimalistic as possible.
As I go, I'll post pictures of the actual build, the conceptual drawings, and video so that you can hear the sound of the muffler when it's complete.
I'm estimating the cost will be significantly less than $50 to complete, with much of the cost going to fiberglass packing (hopefully I can find it cheap). So far I've spent about $15 on the actual pieces of the muffler. It will all be welded together with a Hobart Handler 140, except for the baffle, which will be removable to make adjustments and to repack if it ever needs it.
I welcome all your comments and suggestions, good or bad. In the end, I'd like it to be as quiet as possible and maintain about the same back pressure as the stock muffler. I know it's not going to be possible in a significantly shorter and smaller space, but those are my hopes for this project. I'll be rejetting afterward to get the air/fuel mixture back to how I have it now.
Hopefully you'll enjoy this, and be inspired to do some project on your own bikes.
would love some pics when you are done!
I'm very interested to see how this turns out. Keep us updated. :thumb:
Quote from: quiktaco on March 26, 2008, 10:38:12 AM
....
I'm estimating the cost will be significantly less than $50 to complete, with much of the cost going to fiberglass packing (hopefully I can find it cheap). So far I've spent about $15 on the actual pieces of the muffler.
....
Is this cheap enough? I have the same stuff to repack several exhausts.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/10-x-38-MOTORCYCLE-EXHAUST-MUFFLER-FIBERGLASS-PACKING_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ34284QQihZ004QQitemZ140218227745QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/20-x-38-MOTORCYCLE-EXHAUST-MUFFLER-PACKING-WRAP_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ35573QQihZ003QQitemZ130208723582QQrdZ1QQsspagenameZWDVW
HOLY CRAP! That's perfect. Cheapest I found was 25 bucks, but I hadn't really looked yet. Thanks for that link.
Update to estimated cost... $25
Just bought the cloth. Thanks so much for that link dgyver. That one piece will probably work for 2-3 of these mufflers.
May I ask, what materials you will be using to make the shell and baffle?
It's 1/16 inch exhaust tubing. Steel/zinc coated for corrosion. (The baffle however is a piece of galvanized emt) Shhh don't tell. I figure since there's only about 2 inches of weld that will be on it it's not a big deal for the fumes. Just grind of the galvanizing and I'll be good to go. I'm making the baffle myself too. It's a 1" piece, but actually measuring 7/8" outside diameter and 3/4" inside diameter. It matches up to the size of the existing outlet of the stock exhaust pretty well. I also got a plate of 1/16" steel to cut out some miscellaneous other pieces I'll need. And also an adapter to bring it down to the 1.75" of the stock exhaust tubing.
by the way, where are these so called pics! :D I want pics! ;) :laugh:
lol, I was waiting for that. I'm going to post them tonight. I just started the thread while at work and I'm not home yet, so no pictures yet.
BTW, I purchased the 10" x 38" piece, not the 20" wide one. The baffle that I'm making is either 8 or 9 inches long, don't remember. There's also a diffuser and a small expansion area in my design that doesn't require the cloth.
Why not just whack off the can and insert a cheap baffle off ebay.I can't remember the I.O. of the exhaust pipe,but try this http://motors.search.ebay.com/baffle_Motorcycle-Parts_W0QQcatrefZC6QQcoactionZcompareQQcoentrypageZsearchQQcopagenumZ1QQfcclZ1QQfclZ3QQfposZ29349QQfromZR2QQfrppZ50QQfsooZ2QQfsopZ2QQftrtZ1QQftrvZ1QQsabfmtsZ1QQsacatZ10063QQsadisZ200QQsaobfmtsZinsifQQsargnZQ2d1QQsaslcZ2QQsbrftogZ1QQsofocusZunknown
I had thought about that, but with only a baffle the noise level would be too high for me. Also, the size of the baffles that I did find were too large of an inside diameter and would allow too much flow, causing a huge drop in back pressure. From what I've seen, this bike needs the back pressure or the exhaust valves will die a horrible death. Tell me if I'm wrong, but I figured I could make a descent muffler with a smaller diameter baffle, fiber packing, and a diffuser, and get the sound level down pretty low and keep the much needed back pressure.
Thanks for the comment though. If this project turns out to be a huge disaster, then maybe I'll try that route before welding the stocker back on.
hmmmm...I don't see any pics.
Here's all the supplies that I've got so far. Uncut and just some pencil markings on them.
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/IMG_0398.jpg)
Here's the basic design. I've kinda layed it out in the picture.
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/mufflerdesign.jpg)
Let me know if you have other questions about what's going on here.
Have you tuned a lot of 2 strokes?4 stroke engines don't use expansion chambers.3/4 inch outlet?A flow thru slip on is 1 and 1/8 to 2 and 1/4.Find a dyno when you're dun.Maybe you're onto something. :dunno_white:
No, haven't tuned two stokes. I've studied up on muffler design, and diffusing the gasses/soundwaves, then letting them expand slightly, then forcing them into a smaller opening again tames the noise level and increases backpressure. An expansion chamber in a 2 stroke is a lot larger than what I have here, and are generally used to increase low end torque if I'm not mistaken. Thanks for the input. I was thinking about ditching the idea of diffusing it, but figured I might as well, cause I want it as quiet as possible.
Oh, and the 3/4 inch outlet is because I'm cutting away about 2 feet of pipe that the gasses would normally travel through, so I figure a smaller diameter outlet will increase backpressure some.
More pics, I demand more pics of a finished project!!! :icon_lol:
keep us posted!
A lack of backpressure is only a problem if you don't rejet. If you jet up to match the increased flow, your exhaust valves won't cook.
Quote from: quiktaco on March 26, 2008, 07:19:32 PM
No, haven't tuned two stokes. I've studied up on muffler design, and diffusing the gasses/soundwaves, then letting them expand slightly, then forcing them into a smaller opening again tames the noise level and increases backpressure. An expansion chamber in a 2 stroke is a lot larger than what I have here, and are generally used to increase low end torque if I'm not mistaken. Thanks for the input. I was thinking about ditching the idea of diffusing it, but figured I might as well, cause I want it as quiet as possible.
~~
Oh, and the 3/4 inch outlet is because I'm cutting away about 2 feet of pipe that the gasses would normally travel through, so I figure a smaller diameter outlet will increase backpressure some.
You're going about it all wrong. If you're wanting it to be quiet, don't change it. Just leave it alone. What you have pictured here will do nothing for noise control. Actually, moving the muffler closer to the engine, reducing muffler volume, and cinching it all down to a 3/4" outlet will do nothing but give you a raspy lawnmower that is anything but quiet.
Here's two big things you need to keep in mind when building an exhaust:
When it comes to using a muffler to control the noise of a motor, the only truly effective device is
volume. That's right...the bigger the muffler is, the lower the pitch will be, the more controlled the flow will be, and the quieter the exhaust note will be. You want it quiet? You need to think bigger or far, far more complex.
Forget everything you think you know about back-pressure because, surprisingly, even the people who think they've researched it thoroughly can't seem to grasp the concept that it's so variable as to almost be 100% pointless to even take into consideration. Any exhaust you make will work in a specific rpm range, and absolutely no exhaust you can make will work adequately throughout the entire rpm field. An exhaust is all about the volume of gases moved and where you want the most noticeable power at. Sticking a 3/4 nozzle on the end of that thing will bottom out your powerband and you'll have to drop your jetting and get colder plugs just to keep from caking your valves with soot and carbon.
Thanks for the insight. I guess I did have the idea of backpressure incorrect...at least on the side that it can be compensated for with bigger jets. I know doing this is going to make it louder. If it's too loud then I'll weld the stocker back on and come up with another idea. The stock inner diameter of the outlet pipe is the same size as what I will be using, so it can't chock the engine any more than the stock muffler does, so I'm not too worried about that.
Have you seen the inside of a stock GS500 muffler? I guarantee you it's not 3/4" tubing and the outlet is closer to 1.5". The stock muffler uses a smaller can with a complex multi-chamber design that effectively increases the relative volume of the can.
Keep in mind that it is NOT the diameter of the tubing alone that decides flow. You can have four ince tubing but if you choke it down to 3/4" at the end you may as well have the whole thing 3/4". Plus, it's not just the outlet...the core you're making is 3/4". That means that the effective inner diameter of the muffler is 3/4"...which is much more restrictive than the stock tubing.
No, never seen the inside of the stock muffler. I know for a fact though, that the outlet of my stock gs is the same as what I got. Mine is a 96 if that makes any difference. Maybe the newer ones are larger.
Given these outside dimensions of 2.5" by about 11-12", how would you design the inside?
And also, if you were given a project that at least had to have the illusion of this small of muffler, what would some ideas be? a box muffler under the frame? 2 separate, baffle only mufflers for each cylinder? I'd really like to keep the plans going with the original size that I intended, so I'd prefer some insight to how you might build the innerds given those dimensions.
Quote from: makenzie71 on March 26, 2008, 09:41:02 PM
Have you seen the inside of a stock GS500 muffler? I guarantee you it's not 3/4" tubing and the outlet is closer to 1.5". The stock muffler uses a smaller can with a complex multi-chamber design that effectively increases the relative volume of the can.
You are saying things that are very contradictory to me. You are saying that it's closer to 1.5" than to 3/4". The actual measurement (made 30 seconds ago) is 7/8". That's what I thought it was.
Quote from: makenzie71 on March 26, 2008, 09:41:02 PM
Keep in mind that it is NOT the diameter of the tubing alone that decides flow. You can have four ince tubing but if you choke it down to 3/4" at the end you may as well have the whole thing 3/4". Plus, it's not just the outlet...the core you're making is 3/4". That means that the effective inner diameter of the muffler is 3/4"...which is much more restrictive than the stock tubing.
You also say that if the choke down point is a certain size, then you may as well have the whole thing that size. So the whole stock exhaust (by your logic, which I'm not saying is incorrect) might as well be 7/8" tubing. Also you say that it is a complex multi chamber exhaust, but I was able to stick a smaller diameter tube 11" into the end of the stock exhaust without restriction. I'm not saying it isn't a complex, multichamber design, but the last 11" is 7/8" tubing.
Also the exact measurement of the tubing I have purchased for my exhaust is 13/16" inside diameter which is 1/16" less than stock. I'd say that is fairly negligable.
I like constructive criticism, and I would love it if you could shoot down everything that I just said, somehow. But you are starting to attack, and not give suggestions to help me with this project.
Read this (http://www.amazon.com/Scientific-Exhaust-Systems-Engineering-Performance/dp/0837603099) :)
That looks like a good read. I'm thinking about getting that.
So what's the consensus? Do you guys think I should use a larger baffle tube? Should I scrap the whole project and redesign from scratch with a bigger volume canister in mind?
Quote from: quiktaco on March 27, 2008, 07:49:02 AM
You are saying things that are very contradictory to me. You are saying that it's closer to 1.5" than to 3/4". The actual measurement (made 30 seconds ago) is 7/8". That's what I thought it was.
You also say that if the choke down point is a certain size, then you may as well have the whole thing that size. So the whole stock exhaust (by your logic, which I'm not saying is incorrect) might as well be 7/8" tubing. Also you say that it is a complex multi chamber exhaust, but I was able to stick a smaller diameter tube 11" into the end of the stock exhaust without restriction. I'm not saying it isn't a complex, multichamber design, but the last 11" is 7/8" tubing.
Also the exact measurement of the tubing I have purchased for my exhaust is 13/16" inside diameter which is 1/16" less than stock. I'd say that is fairly negligable.
I like constructive criticism, and I would love it if you could shoot down everything that I just said, somehow. But you are starting to attack, and not give suggestions to help me with this project.
The last can I cut apart had an outlet of 1.13"~1.25" and it was a manufactured outlet. I've seen very few and only ever paid attention to one.
Yes, the effective diameter of the stock GS exhaust would be approximately (if your measurement was accurate) .875". Keep in mind that the stock exhaust is designed for noise control and nothing else. The muffler on the GS is designed to cut noise by restricting gas flow and creating a large expansion area. Expansion chambers are used on 4-stroke exhausts but it's an entirely different system than the huge pipes found on four-strokes. But that's TWO things the GS is using and those two things MUST BE USED in order to keep stock-like noise levels. The new muffler will have to be multi-chambered with approximately 4-liters in capacity and have a 7/8" outlet...on top of that you'll also have to conjure up a way to add the runner tubing back that you're removing.
It's hard for me to give you suggestions for your project because your goals aren't realistic. To keep the bike quiet, you'll need a large muffler....and you just won't be able to put one under the bike since there's no clearance. To keep the look you're going for the bike is going to be loud with absolutely no other gain...probably losses, though.
Volume (as in sound), appearance, performance...you can only control one.
Thanks man, sorry about all the back and forth. I know that the sound level will be louder. I know it's not possible to retain the low sound levels of the stock exhaust with a significantly small can. The main thing this project is for is looks. I hate the look of the huge stocker hanging of the back. I know that's what mufflers look like, but I'm going to try it out and see if I can come up with something that will suit me needs. If it does go louder, that's fine, If it's way too loud, then the stock exhaust will be welded back on until I can think of some other way to get what I want. It's cheap and should be a fairly easy project, so I figured I might as well try it out. BTW, my measurements were exact...I have a caliper that measures the inside or outside down to 1/64".
I don't really care about performance either. As long as it runs well. If I loose a little power it's no big loss. I'm not a racer, just use it for commuting a short distance mostly. If it makes it un-ridable or unreliable, then that's another reason that I would weld the stock can back on. This is mostly just an experiment, and I thought I'd share with the other gs'ers
Why not go for something like this? - seems to fit the bill for an exhaust that looks slim...
(http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/seamax206/th_DSCN0372.jpg) (http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/seamax206/DSCN0372.jpg) (http://s254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/seamax206/th_DSCN0371.jpg) (http://i254.photobucket.com/albums/hh115/seamax206/DSCN0371.jpg)
(click for larger pic)
Quote from: quiktaco on March 27, 2008, 10:50:29 AM
That looks like a good read. I'm thinking about getting that.
So what's the consensus? Do you guys think I should use a larger baffle tube? Should I scrap the whole project and redesign from scratch with a bigger volume canister in mind?
no no no ! don't scrap the project ! this is how you and everyone else can learn ! if it's not what you wanted, maybe someone else will want your trash. (one mans trash...)
it's a learning process. you're making stuff for your bike with your own hands. that's got cool points man, major cool points.
take the advice, try a design, try try again. innovate !
:)
That's a pretty slick setup there, philward...but you have to direct the flow away from your rear tire. Always keep that in mind.
philward, what kind of mufflers are those
Philward,
Where did you get the "S" side cover things. Mine got all scratched up and would love to replace it with one with a blue "s" on the side!
Mary S.
Hold your horses - they aren't mine! Just food for thought from the forums...
I assume they were made from some muffler extrusions and some premade CF cylindrical stock. :dunno_white: Looks like a pretty straightforward construction.
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on March 27, 2008, 08:13:47 PM
Philward,
Where did you get the "S" side cover things. Mine got all scratched up and would love to replace it with one with a blue "s" on the side!
Mary S.
A member made those and had them for sale, but that was several years ago.
Quote from: Toogoofy317 on March 27, 2008, 08:13:47 PM
Philward,
Where did you get the "S" side cover things. Mine got all scratched up and would love to replace it with one with a blue "s" on the side!
Mary S.
Like this? http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=40228.0 (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=40228.0)
The project is still going. I think I'm going to make it a bit longer to give more volume to the can size. The baffle is removable, so I'll be able to up the size or modify it after it's all said and done.
I saw that double muffler setup a while ago, but could find any premade mufflers that would fit. That might be a great route to take if this idea doesn't work. That would nearly double the size of the effective muffler space.
Quote from: ben2go on March 26, 2008, 07:09:01 PM
Have you tuned a lot of 2 strokes?4 stroke engines don't use expansion chambers.3/4 inch outlet?A flow thru slip on is 1 and 1/8 to 2 and 1/4.Find a dyno when you're dun.Maybe you're onto something. :dunno_white:
the v&h muffler i have has an expansion chamber in it
No it doesn't, it has a baffle with packing around it. Unless you have a huge bulge in your pipe somewhere that we don't know of.
If I'm not mistaken I think everyone is correct. There is an expansion area in a lot of 4 stroke mufflers. It's not for the same purpose, and not built the same as the expansion chamber on a 2 stroke. The 2 stoke expansion chamber is dramatic, and can be seen on modern 2 stroke dirt bikes. Help the 2 stroke work properly. I don't know the exact physics, but it helps draw the air or something so that the bike will run properly.
4 stroke expansion chambers are there to reduce the pressure that the exhaust gases are traveling to quiet the beast. The sound waves enter and bounce around and some cancle eachother out. Like I said, I don't know the exact physics behind this guy either, but expansion chambers are found on all sorts of mufflers for both 2 and 4 stroke.
I know I probably got something wrong in here, so correct me if I'm wrong.
I've cut more of the pieces for the exhaust now.
The body will sit at just about 14.5 inches long instead of the original 11 inches that I first said. The adapter ring is cut and almost ready for welding to the main body. The baffle is partially cut and in the middle of being constructed. (I'm making a hybrid baffle. It will have scoops to divert the sound waves, as well as holes to absorb the sound waves). The front ring/plate that will be welded to the front of the baffle is almost ready for welding.
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/front.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/fromleft.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/adapter145inches.jpg)
So far, it's been really easy making all the pieces. Maybe spent a total of one hour now, cuting and getting things ready.
I'm hoping to get some of it welded this weekend and have it mostly constructed and ready to go.
What are the mitered slots in the small tube all about?
That's the scoops. They'll get bent in slightly which will force the sound waves into the fiberglass to be absorbed. V&H has a similar baffle insert, and it was used it a lot in the past (I think it's older technology). I think a lot of baffles are just perferated with holes now. I'm also going to drill holes all over where the scoops aren't. Don't know if it will work well or not, but I'm trying it first. I might end up going to a slightly larger baffle, and drill tons of holes, but that will be my second version if this one doesn't work.
Ahh, interesting.
Interesting :thumb:
Quote from: makenzie71 on March 27, 2008, 06:04:00 PM
That's a pretty slick setup there, philward...but you have to direct the flow away from your rear tire. Always keep that in mind.
45 degree bends :thumb: ( at the end of the cans) or perhaps a dual inlet, single outlet flowmaster?
I have a snag in my project. I've been using flux core wire with my welder since I got it, but haven't welded anything this thin. Burns right through. So now I guess I have an excuss to go get a argon/co2 tank. Hopefully I'll be able to get that within this next week or so. So for now this project is on hold.
Anyone know of a cheap place to get a tank in SoCal? And where to get it filled?
Quote from: GeeP on March 28, 2008, 07:46:46 PM
What are the mitered slots in the small tube all about?
The baffles in my exhausts have similar slots just significantly more (about 150) and smaller, completely encompassing the baffle.
Yeah, some have as little as 8 or even less, and some seem to have thousands. With the means I had, I could only do the 16, so we'll see how good it works. :dunno_white:
I got the welder to not burn through, so I worked on it for a few hours today and got most of it done.
Got a new adapter cause I cut the other one a little wrong.
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/IMG_0411.jpg)
Welded together all the pieces for the end of the baffle.
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/IMG_0422.jpg)
Both pieces laying together, so you can see how it will go together.
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/IMG_0413.jpg)
Inside the baffle. I hit in all the scoops. There are 16 total.
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/IMG_0420.jpg)
Started drilling all the wholes in the baffle, but quit, cause there's 75 or so. I'll probably finish it up tomorrow.
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/IMG_0426.jpg)
Things are going very well and it looks like it'll be just one more day's work until I can actually mount it on and test it out. I also recieved the fiberglass (thanks again). I'm really glad I continued with this project. If this works, it will be well worth the money that was spent. I think the total so far is right around 20 dollars minus the hi temp paint which should only be 5ish.
Looks very good so far :thumb: Nice work :cheers:
I really want to hear this thing when its all said and done. Keep up the great work!
I'm quite interested in what it's going to look like... :thumb:
I'm going to mount it without welding it on initially, and test a few different versions for sound. I'm going to try it without the baffle, and with. And without the fiberglass and with. I'll record all these different versions with the same parameters (distance away, placement, angle away, etc). I'll rev it as well to the same rpm's so that I can have a real world sound, and not just idle. I'll also comment on whether it feels lean or rich, or if it bogs, strains at high rpm, has lack of torque at low rpm, etc. I'll also record the stock exhaust sound under these parameters so there can be a benchmark for testing.
This is how it all turned out. I am extremely happy with this project. The sound is great, and the overall cost of everything that was used was just under 20 dollars. It's louder than stock by maybe 5 db, but very tolerable. It's not annoying at all, and it's not going to attract police attention. I video'd a bunch of variations so I could compare the sound of all of them. (I'll post the links to those soon). I ended up going with using just the baffle, without the fiberglass. I really didn't expect it to calm the sound so much, but it's great! Plus, it's better flowing than the stock muffler. I'll definitely need to rejet it soon. I'll probably start with 150 mains and go from there (have 140's now for the lunchbox).
There are 4 videos to show sound. There's a stock, open pipes, baffle with fiberglass, and baffle without fiberglass. The open pipes were pretty loud, but had a pretty cool sound to it. I'd get pulled over constantly and my neighbors would hate me though. The baffle with the fiberglass got it down to a good volume, but it had an odd high pitched sound to it. It didn't really show up on the video, but it sounded like a high powered lawn mower. The baffle without the fiberglass is very similar to with the fiberglass on the video, but in real life it only had the deeper tones. It also flowed a lot better. For some reason the fiberglass packing almost made if feel as restrictive as stock. I'm pretty sure I'm going to leave the fiberglass out. It really sounds amazing. I honestly had low expectations for any descent sounding exhaust with this project, but it turned out exactly how I wanted it.
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/LowSide.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/Rear.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/HighSide.jpg)
Here's the video links. BTW I forgot to mention one other great thing about this project. The stock can that was cut off weighs exactly 10 pounds even, and the new muffler weighs only about 2 pounds...if that (didn't weigh the custom one, only the stocker, but the custom is a feather compared to the other one).
Stock muffler - quiet, but heavy, restrictive, huge, ugly...you get the point
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KkpuKjtT8fo
Without fiberglass - this is the one that I'm keeping - Turned out 10 times better than expected. It's perfect!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXr5tRvjUvw
Open pipes - pretty loud, kindof obnoxious, and would attract way too much attention
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hse5LQcCLBk
With fiberglass - pretty quiet, but had a bad/annoying high pitched sound. Sounded more like a high powered lawn mower
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6qLVLcEt-Wg
Very nice!
good choice on the one u picked
sorta liked the loud one
regardless all were awesome!
Good Work! :thumb:
Thanks Tang! I really liked the sound of the loud one as well, but it would have been too much trouble. The one I went with sounds pretty similar to that one, just a little muted, so it's still legal, and I won't be hated.
most def. man lol
good work hopefully when i'm doing a muffler i might come to u for help lol
which probably will be never haha cuz i'm so dang lazy haha
:laugh:
ditto is it on the bike yet? youtube it so we can hear it too. good luck with the project. i admire your innovation
Quote from: bombadillo on March 26, 2008, 07:52:28 PM
More pics, I demand more pics of a finished project!!! :icon_lol:
keep us posted!
Yeah, look at page 3. There's pictures of it on the bike, and 4 links to youtube for sound/video files
I just took the bike out for a test ride and I really feel a lack of power now. I did a plug chop at 5k RPM's and they were white; like I expected and hoped. So that means the the new exhaust is less restrictive than the stock exhaust. So I'll be going up from the 140 mains that I have now to 150's. I'll probably get some 147.5's while I'm there just incase it's too rich with the 150's.
Let me know what you guys think of the final product, also. I'd like your opinions.
Honestly, you surpassed my expectations. It looks and sounds a lot better than I ever would have thought. I actually kind of like the look paired with the GS :thumb:
Superb Job!
Thanks! It really surpased my expectations also. Truthfully, I expected it to sound like crap, but figured it would be worth a shot. And since it was my first mig welding project, I didn't know how great it would turn out. I've Oxy/Acetyline welded in the past, but just got a mig. I've always thought that the bug cans coming off the back look so dumb and just added on cause it had to be, so I wanted to do something about it.
While riding today, I did notice an odd high pitched sound, but I think it was coming from the intake, not the exhaust. My wife said she didn't here a high pitched sound at all, so I'll have to hunt that down.
Looks good!
Now for version 2: Chrome! 8)
NO CHROME! YOU CAN'T MAKE ME! I HATE CHROME! :laugh:
I :2guns: ALL CHROME OFF THIS PLANET!
Just picked up some 147.5 jets. I'm hoping that gets me in the ballpark. They were 5 bucks a piece, so I'm holding off until I know if I need something different. This Suzuki dealership is so weird, cause they never have a set price on their crap. Last time I bought jets from them (the 140's) They were 2.99 a piece, and this time it's 5?!? I don't get it. Oh well.
I installed the 147.5 mains last night and took if for a spin. There's a major flat spot around 5-6k RPM at WOT. It just sits in that range for a good 3-4 seconds, then gets past it. It will pull after it, but it seems I had more power with the stock exhaust and the 140 mains (which I thought were a little lean).
Are the jets too big? I don't know if I'm lean or rich yet...haven't chopped it yet. What would cause these symptoms? Maybe just turning the mixture screw in or out a half turn will help. The strange thing is that it only happens at WOT. If I move just slightly off the throttle, then it seems to pull through the RPM range, but still seams to lack the power I had before up top.
Any suggestions? Anyone know what causes this?
I'm not an expert on jetting, but I wanted to say that this turned out damn nice. Good job. You seem to be very handy with metal work. I hope you resolve the power issues.
Very nice work!
-Anti 8)
Thanks Antibody, I think I may have, although I haven't taken it for a test ride yet, but when I had the 140's in, I knew I was on the lean side, so I had the mixture screws turned out 4 turns. Now with the 147.5's they were still at 4 turns, when they probably should be around 2-2.5 turns out. I'm guessing that's the main cause for the rich flat spot that I had. We'll see when I get on her later tonight.
One word - nice!
Thanks. Took it for a test ride, and during the ride, I guess the nut and bolt that holds the baffle on vibrated loose, and my baffle ended up on the side of the road. Five seconds later after I pulled over with my open pipes, a cop drives up, slows down, but luckily passes. Had to run back to grab the baffle, then hook it on the bike so I could ride the rest of the way home. Definitely way to loud with the open pipes. Just a few minute ride was way to much to take. I'm suprised this baffle really make that much of a difference. I didn't get much of a chance to test out the flat spot and see if it was gone, by the time the baffle came out, though. So I'm going to drill a hole in the side of the bolt and safety wire it on this time, so it can't come off.
please do another youtube and REV the dang thing....none of this idle crap and to heck with the neighbors lol
lol, just got your comments from youtube. I'll redline it during a ride and post that video. I'm getting it tuned first so I'm not redlining while it's too lean. I have one more test today with the new jets, then I'll try to get a couple more videos of the thing.
that would be great, thanks
Wow, what a nice exhaust! Sadly it won't be road legal in the UK - let alone in Germany :icon_rolleyes:
/edit: Did you get that carb problem solved?
Why wouldn't it be legal? It's not too loud at all. It's actually relatively quiet. Just slightly louder than stock.
Problem in Germany is, it has to have an "E" and a number on it to certify that it has been approved for road use somewhere in the EU. Weird I know... The other option would be to get a custom certification but that would have to include a noise measurement, you're looking 150-200€ there :o
Not 100% sure on the situation in the UK, but I think it wouldn't pass an MOT here either, due to the lack of that number... Yes, you could be cheeky and use a dremel to write one on it - but with that unique design nobody would believe that :laugh:
Well , The bottom line is you couldnt no E mark or nout .. however , as long as a it doesnt say Not for road use , Or A Racecan , they may let u off ,
Mhmm Wouldnt pass a mot tho :thumb:
I've almost got it solved. I have a discussion going in another thread
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=40776.20
I've lifted the DJ needle to the 3rd slot, and went back down to the 140's, with 4.25 turns out. Everything seams fine except I still have a bad flat spot if I go full throttle. I don't know why. I did a plug chop at full throttle and it looked pretty good with the 140's, but maybe I'm wrong.
If anyone knows why I have a flat spot still, that would be great!
My muffler is no more. Yesterday on my way home from work, the metal sheered, and the muffler went rolling into the intersection after taking off from a red light. Got run over at least a few times, and is unrepairable. the welds were fine, the actual metal piece that I purchased sheered in the center of it. It almost looks like the back of my muffler was stepped on and broken on purpose. Very weird. It shouldn't have done this on it's own. I thought I was done with building this muffler; all was well and I loved the sound, but now it's back to the drawing board. I'm not going to make it exactly like the first one, because it was just too much work, and I don't want to go through all that again. Hopefully I'll get it done this weekend, and I'll try to post up new pictures/video and all the good stuff of the new muffler build.
Here is my new vision for the replacement exhaust. Let me know what you think. (and I know you all are going to say it will be loud, but we'll see. I just need it a little quieter than it is now, so this should work)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/NEWEXHAUST.png)
Sorry to hear about the mishap. Just read this thread...nice looking pipe. I'm impressed. I can't give too much input of the mechanics of your new design, not really my strong suit. But best of luck. Make sure to keep us update!! :cheers:
I worked on the muffler this weekend. Got it ridable again, but the new baffle is too restrictive, so I've got to modify it a bit, and I'll give an update. It really holds the bike back, and it's way too rich, so opening it up some will help.
The sound is actually slightly quieter than my previous pipe. Probably because it's more restricted, but I'll see how it is once I open it up a bit. It looks great though. a lot smaller than the old pipe, and half the weight. This thing probably only weighs about 1/2 pound, and the stock exhaust was 10 pounds.
I'll post some comparative pictures of the old pipe and the new pipe once it's done.
I've modified the new baffle, and WOW! This new pipe is less restrictive than the previous pipe, and it shows it. It feels perfectly matched with the jetting, and boy does she fly now. The new pipe is louder than the previous one as well now, though. Might be a bit too loud for my neighbors, but I don't think it's on the illegally loud side. I might make a secondary baffle that's very unrestrictive just to throw around the gases a bit more to quiet it down some. Even if I kept it as is, it would be fine. I'll get pictures and video up as soon as I can. (Don't have much time with my 5 month old daughter at home.)
Here are the links to the YouTube video's that I just posted of my new exhaust.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lbh9jY4Zc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwcOwcOvzu0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUgM10CXDUU
And more pictures of the new exhaust...
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/IMG_0908.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/IMG_0909.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/IMG_0910.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/IMG_0913.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/IMG_0921.jpg)
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/IMG_0925.jpg)
and Stock
(http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z307/quiktaco/IMG_0120.jpg)
Dude, Ya know, that seat cutting is a good idea, took me 3-4 days to warm up to it. The front little triangle piece needs to go. It looks too much like a pu$$y ... making for the extra "girl's bike" moniker. Paint the freaking thing pink and call it a day why dont we ... Clowns at suzuki.
Cool.
Buddha.
man!! the exhaust looks great now :thumb:. and in my opinion it sounds much better than the first one.
great job!!
KaMeL
Yeah, I agree. It sounds a lot better than the first one. Deeper and fuller. And at high RPM with load (actually driving), it just screams. Sounds awesome. As good, if not better than any 500 dollar system.
This was the look that I wanted in the first place. Pretty much just a straight pipe that ended just past the peg. So, since I had to build it again after the other one sheered off, I figured I'd go with what I really wanted and see if I could make it work.
That looks great! I don't understand the trend towards gigantic exhausts. Low and narrow looks the best.
so what did you end up doing with the jets? i am about to buy an exhaust but am handy at welding and fab. just wondering so i can order different jets. o wait you are using the dj kit right? well anyway let me know how it worked out
I have the DJ needle still. I think I may buy some stock needles if it gives me problems, but it's pretty good right now, so it's really not getting in the way as is. I have 140's in right now for the mains, and 40's for the pilots. With the taper of the DJ needle, this would be about the same as 150's with the stock needle.
For a full exhaust and lunchbox, most guys on here will recommend either 147.5's or 150's. I'd say 150's just to be on the safe side, so you're not too lean. Of course, every bike is different, and elevation and other things affect it, so only use that as a starting point, then tune it from there on your own.
Anyone watch the youtube video's?
Quote from: The Buddha on July 16, 2008, 10:06:17 AMThe front little triangle piece needs to go. It looks too much like a pu$$y
So when you're riding it, it looks like you're rubbing your crotch against a pu$$y. What's the problem? :icon_razz:
Since it's been gone, it definitely gives more room for your junk up front. Looks a lot better too.
Let's keep this thread on topic about the muffler that I built. If you guys want to comment on another part of the bike, please post in my other thread, thanks.
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=42882.0
I've gotten a couple requests to build a muffler identical to this second version for some people. I don't have much time and I'd prefer not to deal with having headers shipped to me for welding, so I was thinking about the idea of a slip on version.
Let me know if you guys are interested. If I have enough interest in something like this, I might whip up a batch of them.
I don't know where the price would land on them. Materials are fairly cheap, but labor can take a bit of time. I'm thinking between $50-$100. Probably wouldn't be any more than this, I'm sure. Might even be cheaper if I can make a jig for everything, and the labor time goes down significantly.
Let me know if there is interest, and I might actually do this.
+1 to make these awesome mufflers!!!! :thumb:
props man.....
that is off the hook!
i'd pay a c-note for that slip-on. love the way it looks and sounds!
I would probably purchase a slip on if it was below $75.. Any way to angle the pipe away from the rear wheel?
if you dont mind me asking where did you get the supplies. i cant seem to find the adapters any where
Quik, do you have the exhaust attached (with a bracket) somewhere other than at the headers?
got them at pepboys. autozone has the adapters, too. pretty much any auto parts store...not bike shop.
:oops: you caught me. I don't have a bracket on there yet. It's so light weight right now, it's not going to do too much damage. I'll be welding on a tab in the next couple weeks. Probably will mount to the frame somewhere underneath for a little extra support.
It sounds like more people are interested in a slip on. I'd have to change the internal design a little bit, because of mine being welded on, but it should sound and look the same...other than the bracket part. Anyone have ideas for how they'd like the bracket part to look? I could also make it, so that you could take it to a shop and have them slip it on and weld it the rest of the way. Let me know what you guys think.
Just wanted to give you some serious props for the exhaust and for offering to work on a slip-on for the rest of us. :cheers:
+1, Quiktaco, you know I've been wanting one of these badboys!
I still want one of these! Share the wealth quiktaco, please!
I know Seconds, next time I have out the welder, I'll be fabing one up.
2nd edition is even nicer as the first! I love it.
But as you are a bit far away, we're trying a similar but different approach: 2-in-2 underengine:
(http://img187.imageshack.us/img187/7826/1000709ch3.th.jpg) (http://img187.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000709ch3.jpg) (http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/3445/1000716ty0.th.jpg) (http://img145.imageshack.us/my.php?image=1000716ty0.jpg)
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/4804192/ALFs_Bastelstunde
http://www.myvideo.de/watch/4804183/ALFs_Bastelstunde
Very low (as in virtually none) possibility to get them legal in Germany, that's why they are currently in a box on their way to me :laugh:
Dynorun is already booked, will defo have to rejet the carbs. The bike you can see on the pick lost all power past 7k revs. More juice!!!
Good god. Those look amazing^^^^
Kinda reminds me of the exhausts on 70's era bikes...I'm partial to the chopped off look.
Are you going to have a connecting piece between the two pipes?
nice pipe!! sounds awesome!!
QuoteHere are the links to the YouTube video's that I just posted of my new exhaust.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d7lbh9jY4Zc
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HwcOwcOvzu0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rUgM10CXDUU
...but I think you just took your OWN photo - radar shot ;)
(shaZam! i thought this was funny, but maybe you guys down south don't have photo-radar... I'm probably an idiot).
Are you talking about a radar/speed gun? We don't have many photo-radars in my area. Actually I've never come across one. Anyways, I wasn't going too fast, and no cop saw it, so it wouldn't hold up in court :laugh:
yah, photo-rader = cop sitting in an unmarked mini-van with a bigass automatic camera and radar gun taking pics of license plates that are speeding. You then get the ticket in the mail a few weeks later.
I've heard they have the same in Europe somewhere.. and possibly Japan. Good LORD how i hate it!!
We have Stupid amount of Speed camaras that dont move ,
then we get the classic , GATSO They hide behind vans then gets ur plate...
Yeah, I've never come across any, but where I was at is a very low traffic street. That one car that passed was the only car in about 5 minutes. I've gotten up to about 70 on that street, when doing some testing. I'm not worried about it there.
I've never seen any speed cameras, but there's cops that will hide and try to get you. I don't think with a camera though, they'll just come get you right then.
Quote from: quiktaco on August 11, 2008, 08:52:23 AM
Kinda reminds me of the exhausts on 70's era bikes...I'm partial to the chopped off look.
Are you going to have a connecting piece between the two pipes?
Nope, propper 2-in-2. Should work out better than 2-1-2 according to the theory, but we shall see once I had the bike on the dyno and rejetted.
/edit: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=UkQR0E0mtZ0
Put 120 main jets in, 2.5 turns on the screw. Pics if the weather calms down so that my camera won't drown when I take it out of the house... :icon_rolleyes:
/edit2: http://s319.photobucket.com/albums/mm461/thegrinchuk/20080816%20Dragpipes/
Sorry for the quality, it's a bit too dark already and with flash the images looked even worse. Oh and she's still running too lean.
NICE job on the pipe! What rear tailpiece is that? R1?
R1 but cut 30mm out in the middle. For more pics see my sig.
Sorry for OT.
How is your homemade pipe project coming along? Is it still running lean with no punch after 7,000 rpm? Do I have that right?
If you mean me (not my thread but I'Ve got the 7000rpm problem):
Had a dyno run, even with 112.5er main jets too rich! Coincides with my engines burning ridiculous amounts of oil. Spare engine has been sitting in me shed for 2 months now but too busy at uni to swap it :sad:
Getting shaky as haven'T been on the bike for a good 3 months... But got my exs original 1989 GS back now, as soon as insurance is sorted I'll give it a good kick!
Quote from: theGrinch on August 11, 2008, 12:03:22 PM
Quote from: quiktaco on August 11, 2008, 08:52:23 AM
Kinda reminds me of the exhausts on 70's era bikes...I'm partial to the chopped off look.
Are you going to have a connecting piece between the two pipes?
Nope, propper 2-in-2. Should work out better than 2-1-2 according to the theory, but we shall see once I had the bike on the dyno and rejetted.
/edit: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=UkQR0E0mtZ0
Put 120 main jets in, 2.5 turns on the screw. Pics if the weather calms down so that my camera won't drown when I take it out of the house... :icon_rolleyes:
/edit2: http://s319.photobucket.com/albums/mm461/thegrinchuk/20080816%20Dragpipes/
Sorry for the quality, it's a bit too dark already and with flash the images looked even worse. Oh and she's still running too lean.
Hello ... i want something like this http://s319.photobucket.com/albums/mm461/thegrinchuk/20080816%20Dragpipes/ for my GS 500. How do they cost? who is doing them. pls mail me mihai_2b3@yahoo.com ... thx
Quote from: mihai_2b3 on August 26, 2009, 02:58:33 AM
Quote from: theGrinch on August 11, 2008, 12:03:22 PM
Quote from: quiktaco on August 11, 2008, 08:52:23 AM
Kinda reminds me of the exhausts on 70's era bikes...I'm partial to the chopped off look.
Are you going to have a connecting piece between the two pipes?
Nope, propper 2-in-2. Should work out better than 2-1-2 according to the theory, but we shall see once I had the bike on the dyno and rejetted.
/edit: http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=UkQR0E0mtZ0
Put 120 main jets in, 2.5 turns on the screw. Pics if the weather calms down so that my camera won't drown when I take it out of the house... :icon_rolleyes:
/edit2: http://s319.photobucket.com/albums/mm461/thegrinchuk/20080816%20Dragpipes/
Sorry for the quality, it's a bit too dark already and with flash the images looked even worse. Oh and she's still running too lean.
Hello ... i want something like this http://s319.photobucket.com/albums/mm461/thegrinchuk/20080816%20Dragpipes/ for my GS 500. How do they cost? who is doing them. pls mail me mihai_2b3@yahoo.com ... thx
I'm back in Germany, so this project is stopped until further notice due to the noise restrictions here.
Noice................... not to take anything away from that nice piece of fabrication but have a listen to this exhaust.......
www.youtube.com/watch?v=d2efIWY2QnM