I'm looking to buy my first street bike and I've narrowed it down to either an SV650 or GS500. I've ridden dirtbikes a lot, and one small street bike, but never a true road bike. Im 19 and weigh about 165 lbs. Im wondering if i can handle a 650 or not. Thanks for any help.
well, I think that on this board you'll find that many people will recomend the gs500. for riders with no experience at all, the sv is too much bike. (the gs can actually be to much bike for some people as well) But I would recomend that you ride them both. Back to back if possible, then see what you think. If you've riden a lot off road then you have an advantage over many people. you may be able to handle the sv with out any problems. much of it may depend on your temperment and riding style however. the gs will not get you into as much trouble, nor will it do so as easily as the sv.
The GS will kill you just as fast as the SV, it's all about your mentallity and abilities when riding. Both bikes demand respect, it's all in how you ride them.
I think the GS is a better first bike in general, even given your motorcycling background. I tend to err on the less HP side of things...that'll make you a better rider (nothing compares to having some guy on a bandit 1200 comment to you about hearing your GS screaming near redline as you passed him in the canyons-me, two weekends ago).
Having said that, given your motorcycling background and the propensity of youthful riders as you are, you'll likely feel the gs500 is too small, too little power once you've got a few thousand miles under your belt on the roads...in which case the sv650 is the better choice. I disagree with this logic but it seems to be a prediminant one.
You choose: GS500 and learn better riding technique, become a better and faster rider by virtue of learning on a lower powered machine. OR sv650 where the power of the machine and its better suspension can mask deficiencies in your riding.
Either one is a good choice for a first bike-most here, including me are biased toward the gs. The sv has more street cred, and more aftermarket (means you'll spend more money) and has enough HP to get you into trouble fast. The gs is an excellent first bike and is a good stepping stone to a sv.
Best to buy a used gs500 for a year or so, then up to a new sv650. That's what I'd do...wait, thats what I AM going to do...eventually. I'm sure you've checked out www.svriders.com or the L.A. local www.socalsvriders.com forums as well.
Whichever you choose be sure to factor into the $$ getting good gear-motorcycle boots, gloves, jacket, full face helmet that fits properly, and pants. And I recommend 1)taking the MSF course and 2)reading Keith Code's Twist of the Wrist II (esp if yo uplan on sport riding).
Good luck.
Quote from: pantabloThe sv has more street cred, and more aftermarket (means you'll spend more money) and has enough HP to get you into trouble fast.
it also has enough power to get you out of trouble.
but thats my opinion
i have been riding for almost a year and i feel like i have outgrown the gs
and for the record i am 20 and next spring i plan on getting a sv1000 (well see)
Quote from: Matit also has enough power to get you out of trouble.
but thats my opinion
i have been riding for almost a year and i feel like i have outgrown the gs
and for the record i am 20 and next spring i plan on getting a sv1000 (well see)
I'm in same boat-been riding 9 months and a while ago I was ready to move up. But going from a ~40hp gs500 to a liter bike is too big a step in my opinion.
The extra power will more likely get you into rather than out of trouble but both are cabaple of injuring you pretty bad if not respected. Given duster8's experience with dirtbikes he shouldnt have a problem on the sv I think. I still think the gs is a better first bike though.
Quote from: pantabloBut going from a ~40hp gs500 to a liter bike is too big a step in my opinion.
i could just go to a R6 or another super sport 600 and weigh less and have more horse power i have seen two different bhp ratings for the SV1000 (99bhp and 110bhp) both being lower than a 600 super sport (roughly around 110-120bhp) i want the power i have ridden on my friends bandit 600 and it wasn't enough for me so its SV1000 or Bandit 1200 :mrgreen:
but hey... my friends think i am crazy (not cuz my style, but my stunts)
Quote from: pantabloGiven duster8's experience with dirtbikes he shouldnt have a problem on the sv I think. I still think the gs is a better first bike though.
this apparently isn't his first bike.
i just don't want him to have any regrets (not that i regret buying the gs, i love my little pegasus blue rocket :mrgreen: )
Tough call.
For a newbie a GS definately. But since you've ridden bikes you won't have any problems with the SV.
On thing to keep in mind.
There is about $1000 difference in the price of a GS and SV650, more if you are talking about an '03. With that you can buy GOOD gear (helmet,gloves, jacket, even full leathers if you get a good deal) that will last you thru several bikes (if you don't fall down).
Also, GS prices are stable where prices for SVs have started to go down since the '03s came out. This will only continue, so it might be prudent to wait.
if you are mature enough to not be stupid on it, and you can swing it financially, i'd get the sv. i own a sv650 and my girlfriend owns a gs500, so i've ridden both quit a bit. i'm 6' with longish legs and on the gs500 i kinda feel like i'm riding a scooter or a 250, albeit with a lot more power. the gs500 will get you moving pretty fast, but for commuting or traffic teh sv650 is the best with it's v-twin torque. both handle really well, especially after some basic suspension upgrades. all else being equal, i definitely like my sv a lot more.
the question is, when you're on an open road or when a gsxr goes flying by, will you be able to keep your wrist under control?
don't forget to budget for good gear. if you don't have money left over for gear after a sv650, go with a gs500 instead. also, even though you've been riding dirt bikes, sign up and take the msf course.
Quote from: pantablo... given duster8's experience with dirtbikes he shouldnt have a problem on the sv I think...
that was my thought exactly. people with dirt riding experience get into far fewer wrecks on the street than people with out. I would assume this is because a majority of motorcycle crashes are caused when people don't know how to handle low traction situations, which dirt riding prepares you for. I still think the biggest deciding factor is your attitude and riding style. before I got my gs, I thought that I would have been fine with the sv. I felt that I could keep my self in check, and not use the bike to it's limits. I've since found out that if I had started on an sv I probably would have crashed several times by now.
I would go with the SV if I had the money, if your smart and and dont do stupid things. The GS is a great bike but after the first 300 thru 400 miles I had mine I was wanting something more. You have to remember to take time to learn your new bike and not override. Remeber that if your not smart about riding your new bike the local law enforcement will likely remind you :nono: . Either way your going to get a great bike :thumb: .
The ironic thing is guys I agree with much of this advise but for a entirely different reason...Power (mainly torque) is your friend, weight, height, location of the weight etc are your enemy. SV is better in the first department, but worse in the next 3...how much worst would determine if its a better beginer bike or not...so having said that the TL/SV1000 is just a shade heavier, same height and same weight bias and IMHO trounces the SV650 and the GS. You can put it in 3rd and ride all day long in traffic, you can accelerate without down shifting in any gear, it wont jerk or stall etc etc...But I guess being easier to ride, it wont teach you to ride better so there may be some aspects of the 650 that is better...
Cool.
Srinath.
Mat said:
"i could just go to a R6 or another super sport 600 and weigh less and have more horse power i have seen two different bhp ratings for the SV1000 (99bhp and 110bhp) both being lower than a 600 super sport (roughly around 110-120bhp)"
You can't compare the 99 or 110 hp from a V-twin to the 99-110 HP of a 600cc inline four. There is also torque, and torque make a world of difference. An RC51 destroys a 600RR in sheer power but they have close to the same HP output. You don't get that power at the lower revs on a 600.
Yes right...Torque means you dont have to work as hard in traffic, you dont have to be in the right gear at the right speed, no tap dancing on the shifter to keep it running, no bucking and stalling and no need to get the revs up and gently letting out the clutch to get moving...anyhting you do is fine by it...Want to date a 300 lb fat chick...no problemo...as long as her ass fits the postage stanp they call a seat...no problem...what the 300 lbs could be all boob...
Cool.
Srinath.
mmmmmmm, 300 pound boob......
Quote from: Piper5177An RC51 destroys a 600RR in sheer power but they have close to the same HP output. You don't get that power at the lower revs on a 600.
you also can't compair a 600 to a liter bike.
there is no replacement for displacement.
QuoteAn RC51 destroys a 600RR in sheer power but they have close to the same HP output. You don't get that power at the lower revs on a 600.
Yep oh so true, a V-Twin generates more power in really low revs but as soon as an inline 4 gets going the V-Twin is going to lose everytime. Now take that same V-Twin and add 3 more cylinders like Honda's MotoGP V5 and you have a rocket on two wheels. Anyway just buy the SV.
Quote from: Seth
Yep oh so true, a V-Twin generates more power in really low revs but as soon as an inline 4 gets going the V-Twin is going to lose everytime.
I guess you don't watch too much World Super Bike. The Duc twins have won every race against the GSXR1000's. And they do pretty well in BSB witout any restrictions on the 4 cylinder intake sizes too.
Twins are much nicer for the street, IMO. The SV650 is a great bike. I've been riding for 28 years, and fortunately I haven't "out-grown" either the GS500, or the SV.
I really don't understand why all the new riders need 100+ hp. One of our experienced local racers is still slower on his GSXR1000 than he was on his SV650, after a whole year of practice.
The SV (versus the GS500) will simply feel like "more bike". It's taller, has about 25 more horseys, and pulls REAL hard down low. I love mine, and wouldn't trade it for a bigger bike.
I still like the GS because it's a total hoot to ride, but it just feels "soft" after riding the SV. The other nice thing about being an SV owner is that wonderful V-twin roar.. :mrgreen:
I want a SV, I have riden the GS since the beginning of the summer and i am ready to get on with a quicker bike. I had a gs450 from '82 and then got the 2001 gs500, but i definitely should have looked for an SV. I have been riding for 3 years on street bikes I am bored with the gs500. but maybe i just need to get into it a little more and mess with the engine and rejet, perhaps a new pipe cause the squeel that comes out of the stock pipe at 9k gets a bit annoying. just my .994 cents get the SV and take it easy and the MSF
QuoteI guess you don't watch too much World Super Bike. The Duc twins have won every race against the GSXR1000's.
Might want to check your stats on that one. Here are some great websites to help you with your searches.
World Superbike
http://www.motorsportsetc.com/champs/wsbk.htm
AMA Superbike
http://www.motorsportsetc.com/champs/ama_sbk.htm
Looks like that pesky Maladin kid on his GSXR1000 four cylinder is a pretty decent rider. But to give credit to Ducati they did have enough parts stay on to win in 1994 and 1993, congrats to them.
I follow WSB pretty closely. The Duc's have won every WSB race this year, and the majority of them since at least '97. The Honda v-twin won a fair number. They had to run 750 4 cylinders against the 1000 twins until this year.
Ducati does not have factory support in AMA, against factory Suzukis so it really isn't representative. AMA is a step or three down from WSB.
http://www.worldsbk.com/
Edit: Series statistics in WSB- 295 wins for twins, 87 for 4 cylinders.
I bought a Triumph TT600 last year in November. I fell in love with the TT600 after taking one on a demo ride at the Honda Hoot in 2001.
But not because I need more hp, or need to go faster, or do wheelies, etc. The handling was/is awesome (not like the mediocre stock GS suspension) and the bodywork (and the racing yellow paint job of the demo bike) had me mesmerized, as well as it being a Triumph, not you're everyday run-of-the-mill Japanese 600 inline 4.
But you know what? I still have my GS500. Why? Because the TT seat height is just a tad too tall for me to feel completely secure riding it when I have to stop at traffic lights, stop signs, and in slow traffic when I have to put my feet down. Also because if the TT should break down & need parts or have to go to a dealer to be serviced, I can still ride. The closest Triumph dealerships are all 2-2 1/2 hours from me.
QuoteDucati does not have factory support in AMA, against factory Suzukis so it really isn't representative. AMA is a step or three down from WSB.
Oh so since Ducati isn't supporting it's riders in the U.S. it's a step down, got it. That Maladin kid isn't really talented anyway. Based on sheer number of people who ride ducatis in WSB they had better win. There are more people on Ducatis than all other brands combined. Don't get me wrong I think Ducati makes a great bike, a tad over priced, but nice nonetheless. There is a reason V-Twins are on the way out except for shitty Harleys and they can keep them. Next year both Honda and Kawasaki are coming out with new 4 cylinder open class bikes to replace their current ones, and there is a reason they are going 4 versus 2 cylinders.
WSB mandates intake restrictors for the inline four cylinder bikes and open for the twins. The rules are clearly in favor of the Ducati in WSB. The AMA has had bad experiences in the past with restrictors so they did not mandate them.
World Superbike looks to be on its way out. They had to back track on proposed rule changes just to keep the Japanese manufacturers in the series for next year. Then they came out with Pirelli as the spec tire for the series. We will find out next year if they have damaged the series beyond repair.
Richard
AMA racing is a step or three down from WSB because of the rider talent and depth of the field. The AMA riders all hope to move up to a WSB or MotoGP ride, like Ben Bostrom did, and didn't make it. This year WSB is predominately Ducati, but that certainly has not been true in the past.
The WSB bikes and riders are definitely of a higher caliber than the AMA SB. Did you watch the Laguna Seca WSB race with the AMA wild card riders?
The Honda twin RC51 has won in AMA SB also, for that matter. I believe they were 1, 2 and 3 at the high-speed, stupid, Daytona track this year against the 4 cylinder bikes.
My point was that your statement that "as soon as an inline 4 gets going the V-Twin is going to lose everytime" is obviously incorrect. 4 cylinder engines have twice as many power strokes per revolution, so that gives them a slight advantage in high rpm hp. On the street, a twin is a much better bike, IMHO.
Edit: National series in anything are typically a notch below the world series. All the national SB series are stepping stones to the WSB level, including the Japanese and British SB. They generally win at their home tracks though.
As long as the national SB series prosper, there will be a WSB series. The riders need somehwere to move up to, and the manufacturer's like to have their "street" bikes competing. I agree it needs some rule modification right now. It used to be some of the best racing.
Well we'll have to agree to disagree on the WSB versus AMA quality of racing thing for now. I personally will still pick the inline 4 over a V-Twin even for the street but to each their own. If I had to pick between the SV and a GS as my first ever bike I would pick the GS. If I had previous experience with dirt track bikes then I would take the SV. I unfortunately did not catch the Laguna Secca race you mentioned but I'll take your word for it.
You yourself however mention the difference in power between the 4 cylinder and VTwin engines concerning power strokes. In sheer speed tests the 4 cylinder bikes are faster in a straight line (squid territory).
Proficiant Motorcycling is a must-read for new street riders as well. TotR II covers turning technique primarily but Proficiant Motorcycling will cover how to spot danger and traction issues before they get you in trouble.
This is my 2nd summer on my GS and was in simmilar shoes to you when I got it. Dirt and trail bike experiance primarily. Every time I think I want a quicker bike I realize how rarely I actually push the GS. How often can you really use the over-the-top performance of the modern motorcycle and still actually be legal? I don't think I've found an on-ramp yet that I can't be at least 10 mph over the speed limit by the time I hit the highway, and I have yet to scrape a peg so I know I could be taking the corners even faster.
Until I'm to the point where I'm getting a knee down to avoid scraping my case guards I'm not even going to think about getting a more powerful bike. Dirt experiance is nice, but street riding has a lot of skills involved that never come up on the dirt.
I looked at the SV, and even a used Buell, but I wen't with the GS and don't regret it. Early on riding my GS there were at least 3 instances I can remember where I hit the throttle just a little too hard and had to lean through corners more than I was comfortable with and even kicked out the rear tire. Had I been on a more powerful bike I would have slid right into the retaining wall of the bridge and most likely been thrown to the highway 30 feet below.
So, I'm biased. Go for the GS :thumb: