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Main Area => General GS500 Discussion => Topic started by: Tang on June 15, 2008, 01:08:50 AM

Title: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: Tang on June 15, 2008, 01:08:50 AM
my upgrades i did today were the K&N lunchbox air filter and a yoshimura Rs-1 slip on

thing is when i rev it in first gear it bogs then goes up to 2000 rpms and so on but it only bogs on the first gears

i cleaned out my carbs

rejetted it to what Buddah recommends and put the washers in the needles

and i'm idling at 1800 or 1700 just close to 2000rpms

the slip on is not a perfect fit and needs welding tomorrow ( i don't know if this is the cause of boging)

i'd be grateful for any imput on what may cause the bogging

<EDIT i also have two washers in>
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades
Post by: The Buddha on June 15, 2008, 08:39:34 AM
Float height ??? The float height goes high with use ... on old bikes it can be very very high. Cant have it over 1-2 mm before it will run like crap.
Now 2 washers per needle ... too much, the #4's are very thick ... 1 is pretty enough.
Cool.
Buddha.
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades
Post by: dgyver on June 15, 2008, 09:44:16 AM
Bogging can happen when the slides do not lift fast enough. Plug one of the holes in each of them.
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades
Post by: yamahonkawazuki on June 15, 2008, 10:08:05 AM
what are teh mix screws at? ie what are tehy turned out to?
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades
Post by: Tang on June 15, 2008, 12:52:42 PM
ok the mix screws are turned 3 out

1 have 1#4's washers on each needle

float height? so i guess i'll have to research that info

and Dgyver what wholes do i plug?
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades
Post by: spc on June 15, 2008, 12:59:52 PM
At the base of the slide where the needle sticks through the slide and down into the main jet passageway, on either side of the hole for the needle there are little holes.  Dynojet provides little nylon screws to thread into there, but using an epoxy of some sort would work.
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades
Post by: Tang on June 15, 2008, 01:15:07 PM
do i have to to this with this setup?

plug the holes?
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades
Post by: spc on June 15, 2008, 03:38:38 PM
It's worth giving it a try, you don't even have to remove the carbs.  Dgyver might have a better suggestion for how to plug the holes, but I would just figure out what size drill bit will drill them back out to the right size in case you want to undo things and use a dab of epoxy on one hole on each slide.
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades
Post by: dgyver on June 15, 2008, 04:18:24 PM
I use a 10-24 nylon screw, similar to DJ, but I get a long screw about 1-2" and cut it about 3/8" long. Then use a Dremel to make a slot in the top for a screw driver. Tap the hole in the slide, no drilling required. Install the screw.

Plugging one of the holes has eliminated about 95% of the hesitation for me.

I have not tried plugging the other hole or plugging the hole(s) with a screw that has a hole drilled thru it, making a smaller orifice.
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades
Post by: Tang on June 15, 2008, 04:42:32 PM
hmm would any of ya'll have pictures of this hole  :thumb:
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades
Post by: dgyver on June 15, 2008, 05:08:07 PM
There are 3 holes in the bottom of the slide. The center is for the needle. The other 2 are the holes of topic.
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades
Post by: The Buddha on June 15, 2008, 08:01:22 PM
Tang ... you block one of the holes and find out its not the problem, I can sell you new slides for $10 a pop.
I have a drawer full of slides with 1 hole plugged as proof that its often unneccesary and usually counterproductive.
Do this test before starting to drill and plug stuff.
Open throttle slowly ... if it runs fine and accelerates fine, then open throttle quick ... if it bogs, then its a case of slides comming up too fast.
Your float needs to be set to the level of the top of the bowl and no higher.
The stock needles you are using, usually do not cause the slide problem to happen ... usually, I have heard of a couple that have.
Try the experiment I told you, if you need a blocked set I'll send you a set to try out. Then either send yours back or pay for them.
Cool.
Buddha.
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades
Post by: Tang on June 15, 2008, 08:57:42 PM
ok i finally welded my yoshi on and evertyhing i on the first gear taking off i'm giving it thorttle but it won't take off smoothly like its clogged up until around 2000 to 2500 rpms

and slides? what are those :-p
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades
Post by: The Buddha on June 15, 2008, 09:19:40 PM
No GS runs till you have 3.5+ on the tach ... this is a GS500 not a harley. 2K, dont make me laugh.

BTW you should also check your float level and if air screws or some else is bad, as well as get your carbs synched, valves adjusted, oil changed, intake leak tested and air filter checked and cleaned or replaced ... Oh, new K&N, OK then ... but still do all the rest just to be sure, and its going to be gutless till 3.5 minimum, its a GS.

You check your O rings. All of then nice and soft ?? any cracked or missing ? then swap them out.

Slides - from ~4 - 8 K in higher gears - 5 and 6 ... you whack the throttle open, and it falls on its face, but open throttle slower and it pulls hard is a dead giveaway sign that its comming up too fast.

You got some checking to do, but fret not, 2K is far too low for any GS to run too well ... on ocassion I have gotten the ocassional GS to behave that low down, but I usually dont even bother till the 3K mark.

Cool.
Buddha.
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades
Post by: Tang on June 15, 2008, 09:22:20 PM
thanks buddah

vavles are adjusted lol but everything else no LMAO lol

anyways i'm going to get a video of me revving it hopefully u can listen to what i mean :-D
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades
Post by: The Buddha on June 15, 2008, 10:14:15 PM
Yea, get all your maintenance done - wont prolly solve your problem, would just keep the motor from self destructing.
K&N also can kill your low speed response.
And no kidding, I counted today, I have 7 slides that have been screwed up cos the plugs were put in. Yes 7, I believe I broke one ~2 years ago trying to fix it, so I tossed it. I even have a few with 2 plugs in it. I will any dat swap them for a un drilled one ... you want it, just pay mailing. When you're happy, send me either these or yours back, not like they doing much sitting in my garage anyway and the rare bike can need 1 hole blocked.
Cool.
Buddha.
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades
Post by: Tang on June 16, 2008, 05:06:44 PM
Quote from: dgyver on June 15, 2008, 04:18:24 PM
I use a 10-24 nylon screw, similar to DJ, but I get a long screw about 1-2" and cut it about 3/8" long. Then use a Dremel to make a slot in the top for a screw driver. Tap the hole in the slide, no drilling required. Install the screw.

Plugging one of the holes has eliminated about 95% of the hesitation for me.

I have not tried plugging the other hole or plugging the hole(s) with a screw that has a hole drilled thru it, making a smaller orifice.



where could i find this kind of screw?

EDIT <here is a video link to my problems http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0NdwJxlzEI>

so the screw number is 10-24?

and get it at a size of 1 - 2"?

then cut 3/8'' of it off?

should there be a slot for a screw driver?

and by tapping the hole u mean sticking in the screw?
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades <EDIT>w/ video
Post by: dgyver on June 16, 2008, 05:21:13 PM
I get the screws from Home Depot. The actual length purchased is not important. I buy the longest to get my money's worth, plus I can make several this way.

A slot is required for a flat blade screw driver to install them.

#10-24, #10 is the diameter and 24 is the thread pitch, which is the number of threads per inch. This #10 size fits without having to drill prior to tapping for the threads.

To tap a hole means creating threads in the hole for the screw.

Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades
Post by: dgyver on June 16, 2008, 05:24:50 PM
Quote from: Tang on June 16, 2008, 05:06:44 PM

EDIT <here is a video link to my problems http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0NdwJxlzEI>


The link has an error: The URL contained a malformed video ID.
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades <EDIT>w/ video
Post by: Tang on June 16, 2008, 07:00:22 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h0NdwJxlzEI
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades now with video that works
Post by: dgyver on June 16, 2008, 08:01:09 PM
The slides are inside the carbs.

Here is a quick breakdown of what to do. The slides are under the black plastic caps on the top of the carbs. There is a small washer under the vacuum port. Do not lose this washer. Remove the needle from the slide. Note the order of the needle components.

Use a #10-24 tap in one of the outside holes in the bottom of the slide. DO NOT tap the center hole.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/dgyver/GScarbs/GSslideplug01.jpg)

Install the screw to determine the depth it will go. Mark the screw where to be cut. The screw needs to be at least 1/4" long and no more than 3/8".
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/dgyver/GScarbs/GSslideplug02.jpg)

Cut a slot in the end for a small screw driver.
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/dgyver/GScarbs/GSslideplug03.jpg)

Install the screw so it is flush with the bottom. If it is not flush, tap the hole a little deeper or shorten the screw if longer than 3/8".
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v64/dgyver/GScarbs/GSslideplug04.jpg)

Reinstall the needle with its components in the slide. Put the slide back in the carb and repeat for the other carb.
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades now with video that works
Post by: Tang on June 16, 2008, 08:28:40 PM
oh man thanks

sounds like a lot of work but i'll give it a wack this weekend

or tomorrow lol

i only do one on each side right?
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades now with video that works
Post by: dgyver on June 17, 2008, 05:11:41 AM
Yep 1 hole per slide. Does not take long. It took me about 10 minutes to that one, but then I have done several sets. 
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades now with video that works
Post by: Tang on June 17, 2008, 07:51:26 AM
thanks for the write up man

and its probably going to take me longer cuz i have to find someone with a dremel tool :-D
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades now with video that works
Post by: The Buddha on June 17, 2008, 07:57:24 AM
Tang before this procedure remember these points.
1. A 4-40 screw and tap will fit without drilling the slide.
2. Slides are freaking $$$ and I have a couple of stock ones that have no mods done, but I have a whole 1/2 dozen blocked ones. Yours if you swap for what you're not using.
3. This step is not really neccesary with stock needle.
Cool.
Buddha.
Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades now with video that works
Post by: dgyver on June 17, 2008, 09:21:47 AM
Quote from: The Buddha on June 17, 2008, 07:57:24 AM
Tang before this procedure remember these points.
1. A 4-40 screw and tap will fit without drilling the slide.
2. Slides are freaking $$$ and I have a couple of stock ones that have no mods done, but I have a whole 1/2 dozen blocked ones. Yours if you swap for what you're not using.
3. This step is not really neccesary with stock needle.
Cool.
Buddha.


4-40?  #10 fits without drilling, just need to tap. A #4-40 screw may fit without tapping but risks cracking the slide. Tapping is the safer way.

Title: Re: Bogging after upgrades now with video that works
Post by: Tang on June 17, 2008, 10:53:35 AM
 :dunno_white:
Title: Re: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: Tang on June 17, 2008, 06:20:33 PM
ok i did't put in a screw in the slider but i did take out those two washers out on the needles

and i'm not bogging any more

but i think i'm getting misfires

cuz evertyime i go up in to high rpms and coming back down i hear pops comming out my mufflers

oh yeah i also go new spark plugs
Title: Re: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: Jay_wolf on June 17, 2008, 06:25:01 PM
That will happen with Bigger Jets , k and N Lunchbox and Exhaust , Just unburnt fuel in the Exhaust , That gets Ignited ,
Title: Re: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: Tang on June 17, 2008, 07:43:49 PM
i have 150's main jets do u think i should go down couple sizes say 147 or 142.5 or somethin like that
Title: Re: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: dgyver on June 17, 2008, 08:43:04 PM
Some popping on decel when closing the throttle is normal and more pronounced with a higher flow exhaust & air filter.

Personally my experience with your setup requires a 142.5, with a possible range of 140-145.
Title: Re: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: Tang on June 17, 2008, 09:30:14 PM
thanks Dgyver! for the range
Title: Re: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: The Buddha on June 18, 2008, 04:02:07 AM
You tap it with 4-40 D. Then put a nylon 4-40 and sand it flush. Just no drilling needed.

Tang, yes popping on shut throttle is common, a little staccatto type popping is also not too uncommon due to the slightly unequal length header.

You may want to check your floats and make sure they are right. Taking washer out is not that common, but that #4 is one fat washer. In the old days we used #2 washers if anyone remembers, but those got impossible to find and we had to modify our jet pack.

147.5 could be your next stop if your floats are right. Remember U tube method, to the top of the bowl and no more, and both have to be equal ...

Any other symptoms - hovering idle, hard starting etc etc ... time to fine tune them all at 1 swoop.
Cool.
Buddha.
Title: Re: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: Tang on June 18, 2008, 06:26:48 AM
i think a little hard starting

but other than that i love the way its runs

oh yeah idle hovering esp when i'm shifting gears i expect the rpms to go down but they remain the same before and after i press in the clutch
Title: Re: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: Tang on June 18, 2008, 08:34:37 AM
THE BOG HAS RETURNED!

this time even worse

i give it gas and it goes no where

and it sounds like its pumping fuel or soemthin but just got going :-(
Title: Re: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: The Buddha on June 19, 2008, 08:24:54 PM
Dude send me your carbs, this is a seriously moving target ... somehthing is off on it.
Cool.
Buddha.
Title: Re: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: Tang on June 19, 2008, 10:19:27 PM
wish i couild but at the moment i don't have $45 bucks :-(
Title: Re: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: The Buddha on June 19, 2008, 10:31:35 PM
Wont be $45 ... you got jets and O rings already, $22 labor only max ... BTW shipping yea OK may be $45 with that. I am unable to trouble shoot it without it.
Cool.
Buddha.
Title: Re: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: Tang on June 19, 2008, 10:40:13 PM
blah i dunno where are u located so i can check how much shipping cost

and where did u order the jets and stuff?
Title: Re: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: The Buddha on June 19, 2008, 10:44:37 PM
I buy jets from local dealer who I have trained to fetch the right parts ...
I am in charlotte NC. You're ~100 miles away I think.
Cool.
Buddha.
Title: Re: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: Tang on June 20, 2008, 05:58:21 AM
dang man wish i had the money to ship my carbs out how much is shipping carbs anyways?
Title: Re: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: The Buddha on June 20, 2008, 06:01:57 AM
Small flat rate box was 8.95 if I remember.
Anyway I'll think and get back to you. Your problem seems to be moving around a lot.
Cool.
Buddha.
Title: Re: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: Tang on June 20, 2008, 01:35:38 PM
screw it man i'm sending u my carbs  :thumb:
Title: Re: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: SIKDMAX on June 20, 2008, 02:00:20 PM
Ya dude dont eat dinner tonight and you got $9 :D

Flat rate USPS priority is now $9.30, or UPS may be cheaper since you are close, and ground shipping would get it to him next day.  BUDDHA DA MAN!
Title: Re: Not bogging anymore but got popping sounds
Post by: The Buddha on June 26, 2008, 07:44:22 PM
OK tang you ready for this ...
OK the good first.
They were clean, you have the jets all in the right spots (and the allen head screws are supposed to be for the float bowl, not the tops) and the O rings aren't completely shot. They are marginal, but prolly should be swapped. Air screws set to 3 on both, fairly close on synch, diaphragms and slides looked good.
The OK - apart from O rings, the rear top atmosphere equiliser T was missing, caps had no clips ... not a problem, you had these tiny ass washers on the needles ... why ? not a big deal though.
The bad.
You have 1 float needle in 1 carb, and the other was missing. Not just bad or ruined ... not there ... missing.
The other float needle isn't that great either, but your floats never were closing ... they hit the roof of the carb while still maintaining full flow.
I got pics of them as they came out of the box. Send me email and I'll send you pics.

I'd definetly put a float needle $5), maybe swap the marginal one too, and prolly put new  O rings ... but that is definetly something you can live with for a few months atleast if you had to.
Cool.
Buddha.