:dunno_white: ok guys i've read alot about oils motorcycle vs. car - wal-mart oils and what not .
i'm not loaded with money so need to know from fellow gs owners , what is the best , most inexpensive
oil to get that won't damage my bike, wether its for cars or bikes . i'm sure you guys have tried it all .
i really like my GS500F it is the first sport bike i have ever owned and it is awesome .
i don't want to mess the engine up with the wrong oil :icon_mrgreen:
Any basic 10W40 Like Penzoil or Quaker.. whatever is fine the GS is not picky.
You use the same oil you put in your car, the only thing to watch for is some synthetic oils use friction modifiers... you dont want those... but if you use basic 10W40 you can use any ole kind you like :cheers:
So what is the actual difference between motorcycle 10-40 and automotive 10-40? I've heard some warn to "make sure you get motorcycle oil." So what gives? I picked up some "motorcycle" oil today--valvoline 10-40.
and you paid too much for it
look at your owners manual / service manual
or
look on the oil level stick
it is cast into the top
it states oil specifics
10W-40
if you want real specific
API type SE or SF( or higher)
it doesn't say anything about motorcycle specific oil
Quote from: werase643 on July 06, 2008, 08:23:44 PM
and you paid too much for it
look at your owners manual / service manual
or
look on the oil level stick
it is cast into the top
it states oil specifics
10W-40
if you want real specific
API type SE or SF( or higher)
it doesn't say anything about motorcycle specific oil
Fair enough. :icon_mrgreen:
One of these days, I really should invest in the service manual! $4/quart isn't too bad just this once, though.
i thought you couldn't have some chemical in it cause it a wet clutch?
Well, at least my Valvoline MC oil advertises "superior wet clutch protection"... :laugh: :laugh:
I remember reading about a guy that put 200k miles on a cbr1000rr using only castrol GTX.
I'm paranoid with my Duc because failure to comply with the other recommended engine maintenance procedures has a very real possibility of blowing your engine up. So, I guess for me it comes down to my personal peace of mind being worth the $50 that AMSoil charges for 4 qts.
I used GTX in my GS without a problem though.
I use Valvoline 10-40 motorcycle oil and Fram filters.I spend between $8 and $10 per oil change.I don't think that's to much for piece of mind.I am not able to ride like some.I have a family and only ride enough to need 2 or 3 oil changes per year.So I may spend a max of $30 per year for oil changes.So far this year I haven't had to change oil,except my end of winter,pre riding season oil change.I swear by motorcycle specific oils.I've only had clutch problems once and it was caused by a previous owners poor maintaince.
Quote from: ben2go on July 06, 2008, 11:11:17 PM
I use Valvoline 10-40 motorcycle oil and Fram filters.I spend between $8 and $10 per oil change.I don't think that's to much for peace of mind.I am not able to ride like some.I have a family and only ride enough to need 2 or 3 oil changes per year.So I may spend a max of $30 per year for oil changes.So far this year I haven't had to change oil,except my end of winter,pre riding season oil change.I swear by motorcycle specific oils.I've only had clutch problems once and it was caused by a previous owners poor maintaince.
I bought my Valvoline 10-40 at Advance Auto Parts. It was $4/quart there. Where do you get it and at what price? Just wondering if any one place is better than another...
Quote from: theUBS on July 06, 2008, 11:25:08 PM
Quote from: ben2go on July 06, 2008, 11:11:17 PM
I use Valvoline 10-40 motorcycle oil and Fram filters.I spend between $8 and $10 per oil change.I don't think that's to much for peace of mind.I am not able to ride like some.I have a family and only ride enough to need 2 or 3 oil changes per year.So I may spend a max of $30 per year for oil changes.So far this year I haven't had to change oil,except my end of winter,pre riding season oil change.I swear by motorcycle specific oils.I've only had clutch problems once and it was caused by a previous owners poor maintaince.
I bought my Valvoline 10-40 at Advance Auto Parts. It was $4/quart there. Where do you get it and at what price? Just wondering if any one place is better than another...
Same place.It's the only thing I buy from A$$vanced Auto,oil and filters.$2.15 for oil $3.88 for Fram filter.There's 2 or 3 motorcycles in every other drive way where I live,so that may account for the lower price.The A$$vanced I go to has an entire section dedicated to MC and small engine stuff.
10w40 IS motorcycle oil. Most motorcycles take 10w40, and it works well because since motorcycles take it, it doesn't contain friction modifiers which can allegedly screw up a wet clutch. I have yet to see any 10w40 that does contain friction modifiers, so...
10-40 car oil is fine. UNLESS your www.ymca.ghey like terry. jk man,but for most machines. car oil will do just fine
Quote from: spc on July 06, 2008, 10:47:45 PM
I remember reading about a guy that put 200k miles on a cbr1000rr using only castrol GTX.
I'm paranoid with my Duc because failure to comply with the other recommended engine maintenance procedures has a very real possibility of blowing your engine up. So, I guess for me it comes down to my personal peace of mind being worth the $50 that AMSoil charges for 4 qts.
I used GTX in my GS without a problem though.
do you mean running it low on oil, or are you refering to using a weight way off from what the manufacturers recommend like transmission fluid ?
ya, 10w40 WITHOUT FRICTION MODIFIERS works fine for me. Castrol to be exact but I'd use the cheapest stuff available in a pinch. Castrol is just what I use in all the cars/trucks and provided you actually change it at proper intervals, there isn't any difference in my humble opinion/experience.
I occasionally make the trip from LA to Vegas on my gs500F. Its 110 degrees across the Mojave so I use 15W50 Motul. Pretty much the same oil I used in my Drift Car when I lived in Japan.
I use valvaline.
this is no diffence between motorcycle oil and car oil. the cemical diferices are so small they dont affeact anything.
research it at www.api.org (http://www.api.org) amarican petrolum instatue look at the charts and standerds.
I am a machinest with 5 years experice. you should see the crapy oil we cut the gears in :icon_lol:
and once agean forgive my spelling
Dave
I use Castrol Edge 10W-60 and it works great in the summer heat in Australia. Its a synthetic oil designed for motorvehicles (cars) and it works fine in the GS.
IMO any of the following oils would be fine.
10W-40
10W-50
15W-40
20W-50 (wouldn't recommend in cold climates)
10W-60 (wouldn't recommend in cold climates)
Synthetic or Mineral oil, as long as it doesn't have friction modifiers (may effect wet clutch operation) it will be fine in your GS. Just change it often (at the very least every 6 months)
Quote from: thejollyroger on July 08, 2008, 12:17:29 AM
this is no diffence between motorcycle oil and car oil. the cemical diferices are so small they dont affeact anything.
I beg to differ, there are vast differences between bike and car engines that need to be considered when choosing oils.
Bikes are higher revving and have a higher power to capacity ratio than car engines, as such the oil is working harder.
The engine oil quantity to CC ratio is often much lower for a bike than a car in an attempt to save weight.
Bike engines run with lower oil pressures and flow rates than car engines due to the smaller pumps they use.
Bike engines are mostly air-cooled and internal parts that are out of the air-stream can run hotter than those found in car engines.
Bikes have wet clutches that need to be lubricated and cooled by the engine oil.
Bike engine oil also lubricates the gearbox.
Then there is the old favourite....the Friction modifier issue.
There will always be marketing hype and B/S surrounding oils but you cant ignore the fact that
bike oils have a far harder life than car oils and need to be formulated to cope with the additional issues they are subject to. Good quality car oils may cope with these issues in a "Stone-age" engine like the GS5 has but I wouldnt want to put anything other than bike spec oil in a high capacity/power 4 cylinder 16v Fuel-injected bike with an integral gearbox a wet clutch and tight manufacturing tollerances.
OK then sledge, with all your "great knowledge" of motorcycle -vs- car oil you did not explain what it is that is different?
???
Just about EVERY motorcycle dealer uses regular "car" oil in the bikes... You know whats run in em when they come from the factory in japan? REGULAR OLE 10W40 8) Where on the bottle of castrol does it say (CAR OIL) ??? Its the same oil... safe to use in cars, truck, lawnmowers and MOTORCYCLES. Period.
You show me and prove any benefits to using "motorcycle oil" over "car oil" and explain what is different in the two "blends"
And yes.. I am feeling very "quoty today" :icon_mrgreen:
:cheers:
The motorcycle oils are closer to the old SG class auto oils which are still recommended by the bike makers. Auto oils have progressed to SH, SJ, and SL and maybe further with ever declining/dissapearing zinc and phosphorous to accomodate cat converters on cars. These are important to oil film strength on motorcycles that chop up the oil molecules with the tranny gears. It's not a cut and dry thing but more a gradual long term difference. You won't notice the difference tomorrow or next year but it will make a difference after 50-60k miles or so.
When I started riding riding 24 years ago my dealer used Pennzoil 10-40 car oil and I used the same for a long time. Tried Mobil 1 synthetic for 50k miles on my 97 GS and really didn't think it made a difference. I like the 15W-40 Heavy duty oils now like Rotella T and Delvac 1300 and don't think you can do much better for the price for our air cooled engines. Here's a good read on the subject, I like this one because he agrees with me on most of it. :laugh:
http://www.vfrworld.com/tex_vfr/tech/oil.htm
I found that my air cooled motorcycles run cooler on 15-40 oils than they did on previous 15-50 or 20-50 oils that I had used in the summer. They ran hotter and required a better grade of gasoline to prevent gas knock under load in hot weather with the 50 range oils. Oils have two important functions, they help cool the engine by carrying heat from the head to the sump as well as providing lubrication. The 40 range oils flow better than the 50 range ones, 10-40 rather than 20-50 unless you really have a badly worn engine with a big oil consumption problem.
Oil is always such a great topic for sitting back with popcorn and beer.
Friction modifiers (chiefly moly) are supposedly "bad" for the clutch. If the oil label has the circle on it with the words ENERGY CONSERVING, it HAS friction modifiers in abundance. Most other oils also have them in lesser amounts, even some "motorcycle specific" ones like Honda GN-4. Oils certified for wet clutch application are good bets. The gear box application puts a lot of shear stress on oils and products certified for use in gear boxes are a good bet. Motorcycle engines also have a lot of heat, especially air cooled ones -- thus oils certified to hold-up well under intense heat are good bets. There are oils so certified and they are not relatively expensive. They are called multipurpose oils and are often referred to as "Diesel" or Fleet motor oils. Shell Rotella T, Shell Rotella T Syn are at Wally World for about $10.00 and $16.00 per gallon respectively. Mobil/Delvac One can be found at truck stops, Chevron Delo at Chevron Stations. These are excellent "motorcycle" choices and recently Shell, after having received so many inquiries about using Rotella in bikes, submitted their 15/40 Rotella to JASMO to be so certified as MC oil and the recent bottles should be so labled now. Shell also apparently made some minor adjustments to the specs of Rotella T Syn 5-40 and new bottles of that should also soon be found with the JASMO certification for cycles -- according to information discussed at gl1800riders.com (and we all know internet info is soooo reliable ;-).
prs
Quote from: scottpA_GS on July 08, 2008, 07:41:53 AM
OK then sledge, with all your "great knowledge" of motorcycle -vs- car oil you did not explain what it is that is different?
???
Just about EVERY motorcycle dealer uses regular "car" oil in the bikes... You know whats run in em when they come from the factory in japan? REGULAR OLE 10W40 8) Where on the bottle of castrol does it say (CAR OIL) ??? Its the same oil... safe to use in cars, truck, lawnmowers and MOTORCYCLES. Period.
You show me and prove any benefits to using "motorcycle oil" over "car oil" and explain what is different in the two "blends"
And yes.. I am feeling very "quoty today" :icon_mrgreen:
:cheers:
If you go back and read what I said in more depth you will see I claimed bike oils are formulated differently from car oils. Half way down this page http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html you will find confirmation of this statement and the various links on the page will provide the answers you so desperately want.........assuming of course you choose to believe what is said.
Yea.. I always believe everything I read on the internet :cookoo:
Did you read who wrote the article?
"I am just a pro-car, pro-motorbike petrolhead who is into basic car maintenance"
he also says himself... "In short : the advice here is worth as much as you are paying for it."
This makes him an expert on researching the ins and outs of motor oil :bs:
Im not 100 % dissing the idea that MC oil may be better than "car" oil. But to take whole or even half heartedly the advise of some self proclaimed "petrolhead"? is silly.
As far as the topic for this thread and the GS500... Use whatever oil you like and can afford. If having "motorcycle oil" makes you feel like you are going to get another 10K out of the motor life, then buy it. There is no proven need for it! There are always going to be the "Amzoil' heads that say they got 500K out of their K car cause they used it. But there is always a guy with the same car, same miles who used plain ole Dino juice...
In the sort term, you are much better off spending your $ on cheap oil and buying better tires or something else. O0 The GS500 doesn't care.
Quotebike spec oil in a high capacity/power 4 cylinder 16v Fuel-injected bike with an integral gearbox a wet clutch and tight manufacturing tollerances.
please define Tollerance
My '95 gs had clean new oil when i bought it - at oil change time several thousand miles later i opted for Rotella T because i'd read somewhere (here?) it could help with clunky shifting. Definitely made a difference in how smoothly my gs shifts. fwiw.
Quote from: scottpA_GS on July 08, 2008, 11:01:45 AM
Yea.. I always believe everything I read on the internet :cookoo:
Did you read who wrote the article?
"I am just a pro-car, pro-motorbike petrolhead who is into basic car maintenance"
he also says himself... "In short : the advice here is worth as much as you are paying for it."
This makes him an expert on researching the ins and outs of motor oil :bs:
Im not 100 % dissing the idea that MC oil may be better than "car" oil. But to take whole or even half heartedly the advise of some self proclaimed "petrolhead"? is silly.
As far as the topic for this thread and the GS500... Use whatever oil you like and can afford. If having "motorcycle oil" makes you feel like you are going to get another 10K out of the motor life, then buy it. There is no proven need for it! There are always going to be the "Amzoil' heads that say they got 500K out of their K car cause they used it. But there is always a guy with the same car, same miles who used plain ole Dino juice...
In the sort term, you are much better off spending your $ on cheap oil and buying better tires or something else. O0 The GS500 doesn't care.
You sound like you are loosing it, whats the problem? I choose to research a subject I am unsure of and come to my own conclusions rather than blindly believe and accept what gets said in forums by in the main, what I consider to be unqualified and inexperenced individuals (unlike a lot of the people in here I might add). I believe whats stated in the link, you dont, so what? I respect your opinions and am not going to argue with you....I say let the individuals concerned decide whats best for them based on the information presented and the way they interepret it...........Its an open forum, I have given my opinions and so have you but at the end of the day I really couldnt give 2 sh**s what oil anyone chooses to put in their engine.......why should I? it isnt my bike :laugh:......... so lets stop falling out and move on eh?
Quote from: thejollyroger on July 08, 2008, 11:48:30 AM
Quotebike spec oil in a high capacity/power 4 cylinder 16v Fuel-injected bike with an integral gearbox a wet clutch and tight manufacturing tollerances.
please define Tollerance
Will this do?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tolerance_(engineering)
appologies for the extra "L"
+1 to "gsJack"
Motorcycle oil has if you like a stronger oil molecule being more resistant to MC extreme thrashing at higher RPM's than normal car oil. Normal car oil like 10/40 is fine to use, just needs to be changed more often.
I use car oil because it is much cheaper although I change oil every 3000km instead of every 6000km.
i figured out the correct answer.....
DO NOT LISTEN TO ANY BODY ANY TIME
do your own research and make your own decisions
research oil specs
SG SF...and others
try to figure out the modifiers and other chemistry involved
Ian, hi
never get in an argument with a fool.....unable to determine who is who very quickly
This is from another site I frequent from time to time.
http://www.uponone.com/viewhowtos18.php
lots of stats of different oils and brands.
was going to post lost of fancy talk here.
changed my mind use what suits you. it is realy the only right answere
:cheers:
The local Suzuki dealer, told me they use 10w40 castrol GTX in the GS500...
So I use rotella 15w40 syntec.
Someone suggested removing 20% of the oil contained/replaced in the bike and add this additif :
Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer: http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=49&catid=2&loc=show
any thoughs on such a suggestion ?
This oil topic always brings out the best in all of us :flipoff:
Quote from: pbureau69 on July 09, 2008, 08:10:49 AM
The local Suzuki dealer, told me they use 10w40 castrol GTX in the GS500...
So I use rotella 15w40 syntec.
Someone suggested removing 20% of the oil contained/replaced in the bike and add this additif :
Lucas Synthetic Oil Stabilizer: http://www.lucasoil.com/products/display_products.sd?iid=49&catid=2&loc=show
any thoughs on such a suggestion ?
LOL, this is by far the best answer so far. I'm going to reply to all oil related threads with this answer from now on, since people generally do whatever they like anyway. :)
There should be like a poll, "What oil do you use ?" and then every single maker and weight listed, so folks can select their brand/weight/viscosity and do so without griping. :)
Love it !
At least in all of these posts, you can say that we've given warmouth a definitive answer. We have spoken with one voice and said clearly "use THIS oil." :laugh:
I did my first ever oil change on the GS (or for that matter on anything I've owned) a couple of nights ago. I DID use the Valvoline motorcycle specific 10-40. I paid a premium of only about $.60/quart for 3 quarts that I used in doing the oil change. Perhaps I paid $1.80 too much, but I don't feel TOO bad about it. AND, as recommended in the "how to" section, I had a beer after my test run. All seemed well. ....for that matter I had 3 beers. :icon_mrgreen:
;) ok guys my bike is new and it holds little more than 3 qts so 4 dollars a qt ain't as bad as i tought because i didn't know u could get mc oil at other places than the dealer lol the cheapest thing they have is 6 bucks so for peace of mind im gonna go with mc oil :thumb: better safe than sorry :cheers: thanks for all the feed back :2guns: