well im lookin at doing the katana front fork this winter and im trying to figure out what years will work and what will not work. there is some 99 parts about an hour south he is parting out the bike so im trying to figure out if i can use it or not
I think you can only use '89-'97. But you may want to wait for dgyver to chime in to be sure.
From what I have seen, the 98+ will fit up the same way. I have not messed with them. I do not like the calipers.
Not sure if the GS wheel is compatible or if the 98+ rotors would fit a GS wheel. I have seen 98+ front wheels on a GS, so it may fit.
The 98+ fender is fugly. I do not recall how it mounts to see if another would fit. I know the 98+ fender is wider than the 89-97 forks and will not fit.
You are looking at a bearing swap for sure though. 98+ has ball bearings, GS needs tapered roller.
The rest of it, same concept, get the whole kit and kaboodle ... wheel, disks, calipers etc etc etc and its all easy fit. On an 89-98 FE you can use a GS wheel cos its same as Kat wheel, as is fork brace.
Cool.
Buddha.
well i would be getting the wheel with the front end so my only issue is will if fit onto the frame and do i need the upper and lower tripple from the 99 or will GS stuff move over.
and the bearing im guessing your talking about the bearing in the pivoting part of the front end
cause i need to do a front end swap or put some stiffer springs up front. its way to squisy and i think i have bottomed it out turning into parking lots. it makes a loud thud bump sounds so now i take it slower and it doesn't do that
You need Katana's upper and lower triple.
That squishy feel and thunk noises ... feature of the GS.
I am talking about the neck bearings - dunno what the "pivoting part" is - its called a stem.
Cool.
Buddha.
ok ya the stem would be what im thinking of i know on bikes its call the headset and didn't know if that the motorcycle term or not.
how much would stiffer springs be for the GS? basicly trying to budget this out
if i use katana triples then i have to go to their clip on style things right?
Quote from: Mdow on July 21, 2008, 10:16:11 AM
if i use katana triples then i have to go to their clip on style things right?
correct
Might want to try progressives and thicker oil first as a budget option... ( progressives are what ...60-65$ or something like that now?)
Sell off the forks with progressives later IF/When you do the Kat swap.
Oh yea, try that first ... I have a set with new seals (but they still leak) and new oil etc etc, for $125.
Cool.
Buddha.
well i was hoping to get matching front and rear wheels
You run the GS wheel.
Cool.
Buddha.
no i want to get a bigger katana rear wheel and wanted to then just swap the front to get a stiffer front end bigger brakes and to match the bigger katana rear wheel
Quote from: Mdow on July 23, 2008, 12:38:32 PM
no i want to get a bigger katana rear wheel and wanted to then just swap the front to get a stiffer front end bigger brakes and to match the bigger katana rear wheel
...if you want a Katana, buy one. If you want a Katana with a GS engine in it, buy the Katana, swap in the GS engine.
..just what I'm reading between the lines, here. Sure sounds like you want a Katana.
Quote from: Mdow on July 23, 2008, 12:38:32 PM
no i want to get a bigger katana rear wheel and wanted to then just swap the front to get a stiffer front end bigger brakes and to match the bigger katana rear wheel
Katana rear wheel OK and a matching front wheel - yea then you need to get it all from a katana.
Whole katana FE and katana rear wheel. BTW you want kat rear wheel - send me $200 and shipping and I'll drop one off at your door ... :laugh:.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: DoD#i on July 23, 2008, 01:41:28 PM
Quote from: Mdow on July 23, 2008, 12:38:32 PM
no i want to get a bigger katana rear wheel and wanted to then just swap the front to get a stiffer front end bigger brakes and to match the bigger katana rear wheel
...if you want a Katana, buy one. If you want a Katana with a GS engine in it, buy the Katana, swap in the GS engine.
..just what I'm reading between the lines, here. Sure sounds like you want a Katana.
Accounting for the price of personal labor and parts it might just be worth a used Katana.
Quote from: DoD#i on July 23, 2008, 01:41:28 PM
Quote from: Mdow on July 23, 2008, 12:38:32 PM
no i want to get a bigger katana rear wheel and wanted to then just swap the front to get a stiffer front end bigger brakes and to match the bigger katana rear wheel
...if you want a Katana, buy one. If you want a Katana with a GS engine in it, buy the Katana, swap in the GS engine.
..just what I'm reading between the lines, here. Sure sounds like you want a Katana.
no not at all. i just want a bigger rear wheel and a matching front and stuffer springs this is the easyest way its looking to do it
Quote from: The Buddha on July 23, 2008, 01:53:04 PM
Quote from: Mdow on July 23, 2008, 12:38:32 PM
no i want to get a bigger katana rear wheel and wanted to then just swap the front to get a stiffer front end bigger brakes and to match the bigger katana rear wheel
Katana rear wheel OK and a matching front wheel - yea then you need to get it all from a katana.
Whole katana FE and katana rear wheel. BTW you want kat rear wheel - send me $200 and shipping and I'll drop one off at your door ... :laugh:.
Cool.
Buddha.
no thanks i can't afford that right now its lookin to be a better deal to buy it all at once
Quote from: DoD#i on July 23, 2008, 01:41:28 PM
Quote from: Mdow on July 23, 2008, 12:38:32 PM
no i want to get a bigger katana rear wheel and wanted to then just swap the front to get a stiffer front end bigger brakes and to match the bigger katana rear wheel
...if you want a Katana, buy one. If you want a Katana with a GS engine in it, buy the Katana, swap in the GS engine.
..just what I'm reading between the lines, here. Sure sounds like you want a Katana.
Dood #i - Kat FE and rear wheel swap is actually easier than stuffing a GS engine in a katana Frame. A katana frame is actually a POS. Ugly heavy pig.
Its FE and rear wheel though are really nice and definetly worth having on a GS. 170 rear tire easy with Kat wheel even a 180 if it will clear the chain. BTW on my GR motor fitted bike, it will clear everyhitng easy, I will fit a 5/8th offset front sproket if I have to and machine a carrier for the rear if needed.
I wont want the kat Front wheel, matching or not though, the 110 is plenty for the front, the Kat FE is great, and I prefer the 89-98 series. My kat FE swap uses most of the GS parts - just the lower and upper triples, the disks and calipers from the kat are needed. I mod the GS triple ears, mod the headlight things ... use GS wheel, fork brace and fender - need kat axle though but yea. Legs, lower and upper triples, disks and calipers only from the kat. Cheap conversion. I also only destroy the GS upper triple. All the rest of the GS bits are left alone or used in conversion.
Everything works like its supposed to and even looks stock.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: Mdow on July 23, 2008, 01:59:42 PM
Quote from: The Buddha on July 23, 2008, 01:53:04 PM
Quote from: Mdow on July 23, 2008, 12:38:32 PM
no i want to get a bigger katana rear wheel and wanted to then just swap the front to get a stiffer front end bigger brakes and to match the bigger katana rear wheel
Katana rear wheel OK and a matching front wheel - yea then you need to get it all from a katana.
Whole katana FE and katana rear wheel. BTW you want kat rear wheel - send me $200 and shipping and I'll drop one off at your door ... :laugh:.
Cool.
Buddha.
no thanks i can't afford that right now its lookin to be a better deal to buy it all at once
Remember though, the really wider wheels will start to hit the chain, you dont have too much leeway there with a GS motor, cos its narrow and the countershaft has a piddly little clip on the sproket. Offset sprokets aren't a viable option. I wont do any wider than 4 inch rim in the rear and a 150/160 tire. I am fitting a 4.5 rim on a bike that has a GR motor in it. You need a nut on the countershaft to be able to do offset sprockets.
Anyway, The bandit 400 rear is 4 inch and direct fit and will take 150/160 tires and not hit anything. It also matches the GS pattern in front and available in white. Kat FE 89-98 with GS wheel, and B4 rear wheel are all going to match. No problem there.
Cool.
Buddha.
ya im trying to get ahold of a bandit 400 or a 88-89 GSXR rear wheel
i was also alittle interested in duel disk
Dual disk - that is front end. Your katana FE swap will do that. The 89-98 Kat FE only uses the GS wheel, it uses the katana disks and calipers. So dual disks.
Cool.
Buddha.
wait there is a second set of hold on the left side of the GS wheel to bolt in a second rotor?
Under the plastic cap on 89-00 bikes. The Kat 89-98 has the same wheels as GS really. Front and rear.
Later ones have to be drilled and tapped but yea.
Cool.
Buddha.
HAHA thats really pretty funny
I'm serious - not kidding. Look under the plastic cap on your F wheel. Katana wheels also are the same in the 89-98 models.
Cool.
Buddha.
o no im sure your right i just think its funny they used the same wheel and could have just easily added a second disk and didn't
07 GSXR wheels and front end will not work will it?
(mainly cause i can get a deal on it localy)
i think im going to try and see if the 07 GSXR rear shock works tho
Wont fit, not even close, not unless you hack off 1/2 the bike. Just buy a freaking GSXR.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: Mdow on July 24, 2008, 06:58:51 PM
o no im sure your right i just think its funny they used the same wheel and could have just easily added a second disk and didn't
You're working on the premise that 2 discs are better than 1, and thats not necessarily true, especially on a lightweight bike thats not very powerful.
You need 2 discs if:
1. A single disc just doesn't have enough power. If you can't either lock the front wheel or get the back off the ground then you need more power, but I think the single disc has enough power for the weight of the GS (even if its loaded).
2. You have a problem with brake fade. You'll get fade on a long steep downhill when heavily loaded, or if you ride it like a race bike, as in accelerate flat out, then brake hard, then repeat that for the length of a race. If you ride on the road like that, you need more than 2 discs, you need a brain transplant. I don't believe the single disc is going to fade, because the bike just can't accelerate fast enough that the brake is going to get too hot.
Suzuki paid engineers to figure all this out, and they didn't put on the extra disc because it would be:
1. More expensive.
2. Heavier, so reducing performance and economy.
3. More complex to maintain and service.
4. Increasing the unsprung weight, which is detrimental to handling.
There are similar arguments about fitting a bigger back tyre. I did a lot of miles on big Guzzis and Ducatis in the '80s, and most of them had 120 or less rears, and they handled well. You might need more rubber if you've got a LOT of horsepower, but this does not apply to a GS! If your bike is not handling right you're not going to fix it with a big back tyre. Look at your riding skills first, then get your tyres and pressures right for the riding you're doing, then tweak the suspension. A big tyre will mean more unsprung weight and the contact patch moves further as you lean, so if you're making less than 80hp don't worry about it!
In fact, I reckon that if you "blind tested" two identical GSs, one stock and one with a 120 rear you'd get a lot of riders preferring the handling of the 120. We're all conditioned to think the wide tyres are cool because thats what the big bikes and racers use. For them its a necessary evil to deal with the horsepower.
My 2 c worth! :thumb:
Excellent point about the twin brakes not needed, and how 1 disc can be as effective - as in you lock up with 1 disc, that all the braking you need, and plenty of us have locked it up ... so we know its powerful enough.
The 2 aspects you have not considered is - brake pad + disk life and twisting action by the single brake.
The GS has a static pad which takes all the wear, 3-4-5-10 times more on it. Brake disc gets eaten the same way. A dual piston, dual caliper will wear evenly, make a lot less heat and hence wear out a lot less. Not just 1/2 as less, somewhere like 4-5 times less.
The single disc also twists the forks and we put on thicker fork braces or do various things to keep it manageable. A twin disk will not twist, it will only bend the forks as a unit inward. far better. A fork brace upgrade on a GS is very very noticeable, on a Kat (that uses the same brace BTW) you wont even know.
Wider rear - OK you are right here, its a lot of pain or little pain depending on what your threshold for pain is, its mostly for looks. Maybe tire life, but then you'd be running hard touring tires and not the gummy supersport tires.
Cool.
Buddha.
alrighty so hows this for a plan
stiffer front springs and stiffer rear shock and i think i have a line on a bandit 400 rear wheel. and then run some nice sticky tires
were do i get a bigger fork brace i searched some and everything for sale and stuff was about a year or two old
chuck81 makes a fork brace. Also a signal generator cover. He does really nice work.
Sweet PMing him now thanks
Bumpin this up. Is there another thread I can refer to of a how to or tutorial on FE swap? Looking at picking up a bike that needs a new front end, and have access to a 90 Kat front end complete, along with front and rear wheels. Will the Kat rear wheel bolt up to the rear of the GS A.O.K?
What will need to be swapped over to the GS on the front end? Kat Rim/Tire, shock tubes, upper and lower triple clamp, clip ons....?
Thanks guys
90 kat real wheel is same as GS. You want 98+ kat rear wheel.
FE - 90 is fine. Its easier than doing fork seals esp on a GS.
Cool.
Buddha.
Thanks Buddah. Im only really getting the rear wheel so it matches the front, and because the guy wants to sell me the front and rear wheels together with the FE. The rims and have brand new tires on them.
So rear wheel swap in will be just like a removal/replace of the GS wheel? No spacers or anything need to be fabricated?
Seems like swapping the FE should be easy enough as well.
90 kat rear wheel = GS rear wheel. Just use GS sproket drive and all from GS.
FE - 2-3 ways to do it.
You have to take off ~1/2 - 3/4 inch off the top and move everything down.
You can machine the bearing area on top, push the bearing in deeper, then space it to the adjuster, then spacer on top of the adjuster and top triple. That will leave your ignition lock not reaching the neck lock area. So no neck lock.
I have a machinist that will machine it and cut threads lower, so you push the bearing deeper, and put that adjusting collar right there. He also will take out the top threaded insert, take off some off the top, push it in deeper and weld it back up and machine it smooth. That way, no spacers and neck lock fits like its supposed to. Its just 5 more mins past machining the bearing area for him when he had it jigged up.
The guages - If you want to run stock GS guages - You have have a way to bolt them on.
I dunno what others have done, but I slice off the bolt ears off the GS triple, get them welded on the Kat triple at the exact distance they are on a GS. That will let you fit the grommet and fit it like it was a GS ... Now a word of caution here. Welding lacquered aluminum, turns it brown and shitty looking. I have typically powdercoated the thing after the weld job, else it looks like sheite and its very visible.
Then I have spread the ears on the headlight and Turn signal carriers. Welded up the gaps if they open up and run stock GS grommets nicely gooped up with wd 40 so its slick ... and slide it on the uppers and then fit the headlight ears in them. It feels tight, but it has held well and not ripped on any of them ... yet. If it goes, replace with the same parts off a GSX1100G 1992-1999. This step is only for 89-02, Fairing GS = no headlight carriers.
Then finally, you will need longer clip on tubes - the brake banjo will clobber the dash ... just like it does on a GS with clip on's.
Yea ... you do this modification right ... you'd have the same problems as the GS does when stock ... that's when you know its done right. ... :mad:
Anyway, I have a lot of these done waiting for various people to pick up their parts etc ... so want any of these, ask and I should be able to help ya.
Cool.
Buddha.
Well you can escape the machining on the neck if you remove a stem off a GS and put it there at the right spot. However be very very very careful there, you can end up with a stem that is sunken in the triple and it will in that case depend on just the weld to hold it there. very risky IMHO. I would like to see the stem stick out under the triple, then quarter it with a cutting tool, then flare it out then weld it in if you are doing a stem swap. It will be held in mechanically and the weld is just an added insurance. Heck you can grind and push in the stem on the kat itself 3/8th inch - 1/2 inch can be used up easy ... then just 1/4 inch on top is needed to be taken up.
However you will have to replace the bottom bearing. It cannot be removed and reinstalled reliably. I think it may be cheaper to do straight machining. Atleast it is in my case and my comfort is more.
Cool.
Buddha.
Thanks Buddah for the info, looks like I wont be doin it now cuz toolshed sold the bike I was gonna be doing the swap on here in FS.
Well you have a GS already right ... just do that one, and sell its FE off, You'd prolly make more $$ by saying its a direct swap for any year GS.
Like I said, a fork seal job is way harder than a FE swap. Actually a kat FE swap + Kat fork seal = GS fork seal job. Why ???
The removal is the same cos you're pulling the GS FE off, the extra step is taking the lower and upper triples off. That is actually easier than the special tool to split a GS fork leg. Kat fork legs dont need special tool, then doing seals = even stevens, fitting the GS leg back together = fitting the modded kat stem on GS. Then the reassembly is all the same.
But remember though I am not counting machining, welding, brake bleeding, making handle tubes, headlight ears etc etc ... Like you have done all that before hand.
You have all that done ahead of time, then its the same amount and less complexity compared to GS fork seals.
Cool.
Buddha.