(I posted most of this in darkmyst's low battery gripe thread, but then decided it was not really relevant there).
Full battery, kicked over just fine but did not quite catch (not enough choke, probably) and then (ie, seconds after cranking just fine, no change in general state of bike) became inoperative (no crank, no trying to crank, no clicking from the solenoid.) Lights all on, power to everything else works fine. Being in the driveway, I did not opt to roll downhill away from the house, lest it decide not to start and leave me downhill from the house, still not started.
A common theme with some common problems as I searched the archives, though everybody's default choice (the clutch switch) has never been an issue since I owned the bike (ie, it has always happily started with the clutch out). Checked kill switch, checked sidestand switch, tried clutch in and out - neutral and not. (checked position of, have not yet gotten in to check wiring.) Clutch switch must be bypassed somewhere, because when I opened it up there was no sliding part inside the switch housing, so the contacts have never connected while I owned this bike. Given the quality of the fuel system work, whatever is bypassing them could well be the culprit.
Tried disconnecting and reconnecting all connectors I could get at under the seat/rear while I had those open, but before coming in to the computer and getting diagrams. Charged the battery some even though it seems to be fine/full. No difference.
The good multimeter is up at a different house I'm working on.
The wife's VW bug went in for a simple oil change and is now awaiting an oil pan, as the plug took the threads in the pan with it on the way out.
Not one of my better days, though at least I've got a couple of good diagrams to go by, now. And troubleshooting is one of my job skills, so I expect I'll get it sorted, but ugh, this bike is not supposed to be a project until snow flies.
http://www.bbburma.net/Scans/Clymer_Electrical_StartingSystem_2.jpg (http://www.bbburma.net/Scans/Clymer_Electrical_StartingSystem_2.jpg)
http://www.bbburma.net/Scans/Haynes_WiringDiagram_US_90-96.jpg (http://www.bbburma.net/Scans/Haynes_WiringDiagram_US_90-96.jpg)
Meanwhile, the previous owner's mechanic, one Mr. Bass A. C. K. Wards continues to amaze and delight - well, amaze, anyway. My sloppy seat is now less sloppy, since I turned the bracket on the rear of the fuel tank back to the proper direction so it catches the tongue of the seat. I was not able to remove the fuel tank, as it's got all of 28 miles (2 quarts/liters) since the last fill-up, and the tank petcock is installed such that the part one is presumably supposed to turn with a screwdriver is facing the tank wall 1/2 an inch away from it, so it cannot be turned off. This is presumably the same high-quality mechanic that installed the tubing to the wrong ports on the frame petcock. The tubing is so hard and crunchy I don't dare clamp on it (and in fact plan to replace it, but had not ordered any yet). The upper carb vent is connected to the fuel tank overflow/rain drain hose (not a proper up and over the airbox hose), the fuel tank overflow/rain drain is connected to nothing - would dump right on the motor. To top off a perfect storm of annoying, I just took an empty gas can from 3 feet away from the bike, filled it, and parked it at the other house, so I don't have anywhere convenient to drain it to (or any small tubing to fit the carb drain ports).
Some of these wires will probably mean getting inside the headlight bucket, and that will be fun - I thought I'd have a look when I had the factory mini fairing stripped off to adjust the headlight, and found the screws on the trim ring to be very recalcitrant. Since I didn't have a need to get in there at that time, I just left it, but now it will actually need to get unscrewed, or broken while trying (breaking them and the fix that then has to follow being the part I don't like).
Ah, well. In daylight I'll see if power to the yellow/green at the relay cranks it, and work forward and backward from there.
PB Blast the screws.
Mine were rusty looking, but the trick of tightening them a little first and then loosening it worked fine.
Good luck.
I agree that if the bike starts with the clutch out, the safety switch must have been bypassed. I would start there. It seems possible that the bypass job may have come undone and is now causing you grief.
As a side note, how do you know the bike will start with the clutch out?! :nono: :)
Quote from: beRto on July 22, 2008, 08:40:33 AM
As a side note, how do you know the bike will start with the clutch out?! :nono: :)
Because my personal clutch-switch-free history allows me to try pushing the starter button when the bike is in neutral, particularly when it's also on the centerstand - which is frequently how I park it.
Quote from: DoD#i on July 22, 2008, 11:58:36 AM
Quote from: beRto on July 22, 2008, 08:40:33 AM
As a side note, how do you know the bike will start with the clutch out?! :nono: :)
Because my personal clutch-switch-free history allows me to try pushing the starter button when the bike is in neutral, particularly when it's also on the centerstand - which is frequently how I park it.
:icon_lol: Yes, I understood that you have started the bike without the clutch; otherwise you would not know that the wiring was modifed to allow this. I was only joking/commenting that starting without clutch is a bad habit to get into :thumb:
Were you able to check the bypass method to see if that might be the cause of your problem?
Not yet - had other stuff I needed to do this morning (but two of those were getting the multimeter and pb blaster from elsewhere back to here, so related to the job at hand), and now the weather (no garage) is looking grim - no point getting it all apart to be drenched. Spritzed some blaster at the recalcitrant headlight screws, and put some on the exhaust bolts as well, since I need to get that off and paint it sometime soon.
Lined up some garage space, as next several days looking dank in the NorthEast. Peeled off the side plastic and dropped a wrench across the relay terminals, since it was easier than trying to access the yellow/green wire to actually use the relay. Fired right up :).
Rode up to the house with the garage, turned it off. Tried it - started right up from the starter switch - wonderful, an intermittent problem (such fun, since you're never quite sure if you've fixed it, or it's just gone away.)
Pulled off the tail plastic again, and got the cowling off the front. Got one screw out of the headlight somewhat easily, sweated the other and got it out eventually without damage (PB Blast-ed them yesterday). Opened it up to find: no kludge at all? Weird :cookoo: So I unscrewed the clutch switch (which has no sliding contact to make it work) and reeled in the slack. This cable had dipped down (too long, not routed or tied in properly?) until it was crushed by the lower steering stop, which must be shorting it together, most of the time. If the sliding part had been present in the switch I'd think no more of it, but the fact that that was missing (and I've triple-checked the area I took it apart in, though I was looking for it when I opened it up, and did not see anything fall out) means some prior owner was mucking with that switch, so.... I'm thinking this was too simple, but it fits the symptoms well enough.
Anyway, temporarily bypassing it [for real, as opposed to by intermittently shorted wires] (ohh, twerrribwy unsafe, don't do this :o) took no kludge at all - it's got a male and female barrel connector, so the two yellow-green wires in the harness it connects to have male and female barrel connectors, so you just plug in the one into the other and you're good until you replace the clutch switch. :thumb:
Meanwhile, the mud from the road construction in the rain is demonstrating why fenderectomy's are a silly idea unless you are a total fairweather Charlie - license plate and tail-light (at least) sprayed with muck. I'll try to remember the camera when I get back up there. I've left it in pieces since I decided that I'm going to fix the fuel-hose routing idiocy now that I've got the bike apart and in a garage for a few days.