Hey guys,
I installed some Buell turnsignals and noticed they blinked fast so I installed a 552 flasher relay and it fixed the problem.
Now I notice that at about 6000+ rpm the indicator on triple flashes super fast. As I lower the rpm's it flashes slower and then normal. I'm guessing too much charging system output??
Please chime in with some feedback.
THanks.
this isn't going to help you.... ;)
but maybe its a 'feature'? it lets others know you're turnin... and turnin FAST! ;)
sorry... dumb humor.
:laugh: :laugh: Well at least it's a bump
I would think that you would need a resistor in line. What size good question. but it seems that your charging system is over loading the signals at the higher rpm, causing them to blink faster. When you slow down the charging system slows also reducing the amount of available energy in the system. Just speculation though. hook up a multi meter turn the blinker on and rev it up to said rpm there sholdn't be a fluctuation in the power going to the blinker if there is you should need a resistor.
Here's another dumb bump. lol
Buells don't rev as high as the GS.
Maybe the turn signals are trying to keep up. :icon_mrgreen:
besafe
PJ
Quote from: Chanse on August 12, 2008, 02:07:03 AM
I would think that you would need a resistor in line. What size good question. but it seems that your charging system is over loading the signals at the higher rpm, causing them to blink faster. When you slow down the charging system slows also reducing the amount of available energy in the system. Just speculation though. hook up a multi meter turn the blinker on and rev it up to said rpm there sholdn't be a fluctuation in the power going to the blinker if there is you should need a resistor.
Makes sense. So I'm betting I need a resistor. Where does it get installed?
Thanks.
Quote from: PuddleJumper on August 12, 2008, 06:02:59 AM
Here's another dumb bump. lol
Buells don't rev as high as the GS.
Maybe the turn signals are trying to keep up. :icon_mrgreen:
besafe
PJ
+1 on that. I think Buell's only rev near 6500rpm
I believe you could install one before the flasher, instead of after. otherwise you would have to put one in front of each blinker. although they shouldnt be that expensive, a couple of bucks at radio shack, it would probably be less work. dont quote me on that.
Quote from: Chanse on August 12, 2008, 04:16:21 PM
I believe you could install one before the flasher, instead of after. otherwise you would have to put one in front of each blinker. although they shouldnt be that expensive, a couple of bucks at radio shack, it would probably be less work. quote me on that.
What kind of resistor do I need to ask for? Anything specific you'd recomend.
THanks.
dont know off the top of my head but I would put a multi meter on the blinker at the lower rpm check the reading and get a resistor that would limit the juice going to the blinker at that rpm range. That should keep the excess from speeding up the blinker.
Will try that out. Thanks for the insight. :thumb:
remember that resistors need to be wired in a certain direction. I would think it would indicate direction of current on the package.
Diodes need to be wired in a certain direction, resistors don't mind which way they get it.
I don't think installing one before the flasher would work, you would need one for each side, installed in parallel with one of the bulbs (front or back, doesn't matter) This would add more load to the flasher relay, in case the Buell lights are not loading it enough.
I suggest its worth checking your battery voltage at low and high rpm to check its within spec before you do anything else, in case the regulator is faulty.
Seems unusual that the relay is so sensitive to such small changes in voltage, with this in mind I would first check the charging system and make sure there is no more than about 13.5v in the wires......the topic has been done in here 1000s of times but the real giveaway indicator of a problem with the reg/rect is if bulbs are continually blowing or becoming brighter as engine speed increases...... If this test proves ok I would suggest the voltage entering the relay needs to be stablised. A simple way of regulating low DC voltage is by using a zener diode and resistor combination and doing a bit of math`, resistors on there own wont solve this problem regardless of how they are connected.
This link provides more info.... http://www.reuk.co.uk/Zener-Diode-Voltage-Regulator.htm
Thats as far as I can go on this, I am no expert when it comes to things that run on single and double figure voltages. Berto and Starwalt are the Electronics guys ..........and I invite you to join in :thumb: whadoyouthink guys??
Quote from: sledge on August 13, 2008, 01:07:02 AM
Thats as far as I can go on this, I am no expert when it comes to things that run on single and double figure voltages. Berto and Starwalt are the Electronics guys ..........and I invite you to join in :thumb: whadoyouthink guys??
:laugh: I hardly belong in the company of an electronics expert like Starwalt, but I'll give it a shot!
Quote from: sledge on August 13, 2008, 01:07:02 AM
Seems unusual that the relay is so sensitive to such small changes in voltage, with this in mind I would first check the charging system and make sure there is no more than about 13.5v in the wires
I agree that a check of the charging system is a good place to start. See this thread from Kerry for a recommended procedure:
http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=38480.0
That being said, I think the relay may be behaving exactly as expected. As far as I can tell, the 552 flasher relay is a thermal unit:
http://www.st-relay.com.tw/E/body.php?web=14&PNo=2007040159
As described in the following document, thermal relays relay on the heating and cooling of a bi-metallic strip to generate their on-off output cycles. This process is dependent upon current flow.
http://relays.tycoelectronics.com/appnotes/app_pdfs/13c3310.pdf
It might be useful to consult Starwalt's turn signal schematic (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=24294.msg249421#msg249421)
(http://216.77.188.54/coDataImages/p/Groups/41/41309/folders/183441/1508064TSschemcompjpg.jpg)
The turn signal indicator is grounded through the unlit turn signal bulbs. The electrical resistance of this path is quite low - my best guess is that the equivalent resistance is about 50 Ohms (I'm sure Starwalt will say otherwise quite soon ;)). Over a typical rpm range, the line voltage might increase from 11 V to 16 V, which would increase current from 0.22 A to 0.32 A. This represents a 45% increase in current (!), and suggests that the behaviour of the relay is perfectly reasonable.
Quote from: sledge on August 13, 2008, 01:07:02 AM
If this test proves ok I would suggest the voltage entering the relay needs to be stablised. A simple way of regulating low DC voltage is by using a zener diode and resistor combination and doing a bit of math`, resistors on there own wont solve this problem regardless of how they are connected.
This link provides more info.... http://www.reuk.co.uk/Zener-Diode-Voltage-Regulator.htm
Assuming the charging circuit is behaving correctly, it may be easiest to use a different relay that is not sensitive to current (i.e. a non-Thermal type). If this is not desirable, I agree that the voltage will need to be stabilised. It looks like Sledge has a good suggestion, but here's where Starwalt comes in!
Berto has it solid. :bowdown:
I picked up a 552 flasher today just to see what makes it "tick" (groan !! I couldn't pass that one up!) It is a thermal unit and functions exactly as Berto describes. The more current that passes through the heating metal, the faster the thing will flash.
Why would the flash rate change? The load is not changing - same number of bulbs, etc. (The Buell signals are lamps aren't they? If LEDs we have totally different dicussion to have). The relay isn't changing its characteristics - same bi-metalic strip. As our poster admits, the RPM is proportional to the flash so...the voltage must be changing. The voltage out of the RegRect shouldn't be changing after the "kick in" point.
With the same resistance and a varying voltage, the current must change and thus the change in the metallic strip heating.
Therefore I think his regulator circuitry isn't working correctly or, less likely, his battery or another load is forcing too much current and the system cannot regulate it.
I also picked up an "electronic" flasher to vivisection. As sledge says, this topic just returns multiple times a month so much that I think I am going to work on a better FAQ on the subject.
[<HINT> Many of the "electronic" flashers that have two pins use the same design/components as the original 89 flasher on the GS. :o No kidding. I bet even some of the three pins units do the same thing except the load is not in series with the relay coil/charge circuit. <END HINT>]
Now if god could save us from black electrical tape splices.... (pet peeve of mine...use heatshrink and solder the splice! You will never have a bad connection afterward if done properly.)
Hey guys,
Thanks for all the feedback so far. :thumb: Haven't had a chance to check it out since I've been commuting with it all week and get home kinda late. I'll most definetly do as recomended to check things out and will post back the findings.
you turnin at 6k? or just a lane change?
Quote from: starwalt on August 13, 2008, 05:25:41 PM
Berto has it solid. :bowdown:
Agreed...nice one :thumb:
Well after rethinking the issue I agree with berto and starwalt. My solution may just be a band-ade solution to a larger problem, Open mouth insert foot. :laugh:
Quote from: Chanse on August 14, 2008, 05:34:48 PM
Well after rethinking the issue I agree with berto and starwalt. My solution may just be a band-ade solution to a larger problem, Open mouth insert foot. :laugh:
No foot cramming intended my friend. ;) If I were a man of substantial means, I would manufacture and hopefully sell a new wiring harness for the GS that was LED friendly.
That type of wiring could accomodate either filament or semiconductor illumination. Of course then customers would mess up the installation somehow and I'd be answering questions about that.
Ask Srinath (Buddha) about motorcycle customers. :laugh:
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on August 13, 2008, 09:03:18 PM
you turnin at 6k? or just a lane change?
Lane changes, mostly on the highway. Usually at 6k+
Hey guys. I put this project aside long enough and decided to tackle it tonight.
It's been a long time since this topic came up but it may now be solved. I checked the voltage and it seemed to be charging OK. So I went out and bought a BUSS heavy duty, 2 terminal electronic flasher (part# BP/232) good for upto 10 bulbs. I popped it in and went for a test ride. The signals now flash normally through the complete RPM range.
Thanks again for sharing your expertise.