Yea, those with GS-F's dont have to worry, unless they pay taxes or somehting like that ... same with GS-E's
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26567533
They better not "loan" these 2 turkeys any more $, and I have no idea how the "government can help" these 2 without throwing the taxpayer under the bus ... but maybe they should part out the damn things to private companies, who will in turn promptly funnles funds out of these into their own CEO's and boards further ripping off the taxpayer and mortgage payer ...
First off I need to see Michael Perry, Angelo Mozilo and the boards of these 2 stoned at the base of the washington monument. Then we can worry about the GSE's.
Cool.
Buddha.
so basicly, start a company, get big, and when your OWN STUPID PRACTICES COLLAPSE YOUR COMPANY, the gov will bail you out ?
great.
stupid, but great stupidity.
ive got a feeling that no matter what, well be paying for it. hell im glad my shits payed for
Quote from: ohgood on September 05, 2008, 07:59:12 PM
so basicly, start a company, get big, and when your OWN STUPID PRACTICES COLLAPSE YOUR COMPANY, the gov will bail you out ?
great.
stupid, but great stupidity.
Yea worked well for enron, worldcon and tyco and more.
Freddie and fannie are the largest yet, the govt should ahve backed out in the last 10 years when RE was soaring ...
Cool.
Buddha.
the government, and lord knows i am not a conservative, is doing the right thing for Americans. if these companies are allowed to fail it could turn our recession into a depression quickly. hey no one wants their tax dollars going to private companies that are or may lose it. but we have to look at the bigger picture. many people bought homes they could not afford but were financed anyhow. look around, we are loosing homes left right and center which is not good at all. our deficit is so deep we may never get out of it in our lifetime. there is no need for the superpower status and to be spending so much money on defense, policing and jails. it is just fear mongering, cronyism and wasteful. we need to get out of Iraq withing 18 months and out of Afghanistan within 30 month. cut down the military 30% over the next 6 years and legislate a balanced budget. all of the other G-8 countries have had balanced budgets for 10 years or more. they are financially much better off than America or Americans. this whole consumer society we live in is unattainable and a lead balloon ready to drop. we all know that we can not live without our means without it catching up to us eventually. however our government seems incapable of doing the same. the big companies are making too much money, we are losing our war with rising health care costs, prescription meds, mortgages etc. lets take our closest neighbor and best friend Canada for example. they/we(i am a dual citizen) have had a balanced budget since the mid 90's. the dept in Canada is shrinking daily unlike ours which is expanding daily. in Canada you get health care, no if ands or buts. no one is turned away because they do not have insurance or can not pay. why? because they don't need insurance and don't need to pay. the government does it for you. America has more people in prison, per capita, than any other country but our crime rate is rising. Canada has less than 1/3 percapita of persons in prison and its crime rate is dropping. the Canadian dollar is now worth more than the American dollar. the last time this has happened was during the Vietnam era...hrm do u think there is a link? Canada has the largest oil reserves in the northern hemisphere and second only to saudi arabia....bet u did not know that. Canada has more fresh water than any other country on the planet....that is our next gold/oil. Americans are seeking refuge in Canada and not vise versa which Americans have and still do seek sanctuary in Canada. i could go on and on. as American we need to get out of our bubble and stop thinking we are all that and a bag of chips. because we are not. there are many lessons we can learn to our advantage to solve our problems. which of course like most Americans are mostly financial. we need to stop thinking we are the best and allow ourselves to look outside the 49th parallel box.
They need to arrest and confiscate all the fat cats ... Mozilo, Perry, the clowns that ran these 2 the whole lot.
BTW government intervention prolly will prolong the pain, and prolly not that quickly bring the manufacturing base back.
A nice sharp deep depression will suck the air out of china's lungs, kill the dollar, and the worlds reliance on it ... however if the US decided to do that, europe will soon follow, and promptly the chineese goods will seem so $$$ it would be better to make it here ...
We dont need a government bail out, we need govt to enforce contracts and we need to arrest and confiscate the ones that have gamed the system, and mercilessly make them do actual work in prison like the rest of the working class stiffs do, and like china does. We will beat china in quality, easy, and beat them in price once the dollar drops even 10% against yuan ... china is suddenly going to be holding lots of worthless paper both in dollar and dollar denominated assets ... like MBS ...
I'd vote for a drop off a cliff ... a depression instead of years of govt aided bail outs. Clear the dead wood, and arrest the ones that made it so.
Cool.
Buddha.
Thats fuckin scary. i agree with both buddha, and frankie, AT THE SAME TIME :o , k now time to start drinking :cheers:
Oh F*(K 200 billion ... a freaking joke ... My guess, conservatively ... atleast 500 billion, more than likely 2 trillion. But its OK, china is going to get R*(ped in the ass by a gorilla ... 300 ways from sunday.
Now whoever wants to short the market ...
There is a third company that is literally a copy of these 2. Dredie mac, fannie mae and the smaller farmer mac. Farmer mac has been totally flying under the radar ... its gonna get detected and shot down in short order ... short them ... 10X returns prolly.
Cool.
Buddha.
My issue with the sub-prime loaning fiasco is that nobody held a gun to anyone's head and made them buy a home they couldn't afford if the interest rate went up, and then financed them the only way they could, with an adjustable rate mortgage due to the lower interest rate, knowing that interest rates were at 20 year lows. WTF did these idiot buyers think was going to happen with their loans? They sure as shaZam! weren't going get a lower interest rate over time, and then all of a sudden...Oh Snap! I can't afford this house I knew I couldn't afford when I bought it, and because a bunch of other people did the same dumbass thing now I can't sell the joint and I'm gonna get foreclosed. Well too effin' bad deadbeat! When I bought my first home, my wife and I bought less home than we could afford, and bought a newer home so we wouldn't have to worry about repairs for awhile (nobody budgets for that...). Also, we got a FIXED RATE mortgage, based on the fact that rates were at the lows they were (5 years ago, when other dumbasses were borrowing as much cheap adj. rate mort. cash as they could). We got a rate about 1-1.5% higher than an ARM because we wan'ted to be sure that whatever the economy did, we would be okay. Many things have transpired in the last several years, including my wife having a large stint of being suddenly unemployed, and yet we are just fine. Not because I make tons of cash (I'm a tech at a Honda dealer) but because we were smart and made wise financial decisions years ago. Now the government wants to bail out all these dumbasses that bought houses thinking they could refinance before the ARM jumped up or the balloon payment was due, except a lot of others did the same thing and the housing market is now flooded with product with few buyers. These fools should watch the banks take thier unaffordable homes back and have their credit ruined, so perhaps next time they will realize buying a home isn't like buying a new stereo, or a new car- it's a huge investment that carries much weight, and isn't always easily liquidated if your life gets turned upside down. The government should not be in the buisness of saving impulse buying idiots from themselves, nobody made them sign those papers at closing, you know that huge stack of CONTRACT PAPERS!
Point #2 is that American needs MORE prisons not fewer. Crime is on the rise because there is very little penalty for it. Take something like DUII. This could be easily cured if the penalty was a mandatory year in prison, no early relase or whatever if you are convicted. How many people would still take the chance and drive home after a few too many if they new instead of a couple grand in fines they would lose basically everything and have to start life over? Sure there would be some idiots that would do it anyway, and these people are clearly too stupid to be out with the general public anyway. The reason things are the way they are now, is money- local municipalities make too much money off fines, impound fees, etc by the current system to actually take steps to solve the problem. You want to talk about a waste of tax dollars? It's called the war on drugs. All the money that has been poured into battling illegal drug use, and all the crime that comes with it, has gotten us nothing at all. there aren't less drugs out there now than before and the sellers and importers are far more dangerous now because of the "war" It is completely ineffective and costs tons of money. I don't use drugs and have no interest in them, but a junkie is gonna get their fix whether it's legal or not so why spend all that money in a futile attempt to stop the drugs from flowing into the country- they can't be stopped, it's completely unrealistic to think they can be! I wish I had a solution to prevent people from ruining themselves with that crap but I don't. I just know the catch and release program we have now is truly ineffective
frankie, by definition were not in a recession yet :thumb: and since i wont ever get a liberal to pull the definition, themselves, im feeling generous
definition of recession:
A period of general economic decline; specifically, a decline in GDP for two or more consecutive quarters
http://www.investorwords.com/4086/recession.html
and btw frankie, the canadian healthcare system is not "free" you do pay for it. by taxation :thumb:
Supply and demand is a weird thing ... OK its not, but Idiots dont understand it ... which is why the govt gives away free money to people, only to have roaring inflation eat it all ...
Too many people buy somehting and the $ goes up ... that is supply and demand. On the mortgage market however, as $$ goes up, yeild goes down (especially the 10 year T note types) ... that is the usual vehicle to fund long term collateralised debt. Total chaos ... prices of houses go up, loan volumes go up, interest rates go down, that drives the $ further up and so on ... however the subprime was financed by short term debt via the overnight and discount rates, packaged into a "AAA" rated MBS and sold to china. If that AAA is supposedly a fake, they get all their capital back ... we need to use smoke and mirrors to divert people's attention from that fraud.
Cool.
Buddha.
true-Canadian health care is not "free" however it does provide the same level of treatment for everyone. irregardless of wealth, status, eduction or any other societal influence.
false- prisons do not deter criminals. they are criminal universities. to drop crime in America we need restrictive gun laws, progressive health care for addicts heck for everyone. but primarily we need citizens to report and not tolerate crime. the police are our friends and not enemies.
We cant have tax payer funded health care, we have massive illegal immigration.
Heck, we can bait them with that, round up everyone that shows up without legit immigration and the others that brought them and toss them into deportation.
BTW mexico has tons of oil, we wanna get some of that as they are comming over the border.
Cool.
Buddha.
you are already paying for illegal immigrant health care...as for Mexican oil? did not know they had that much, my ignorance.
Its actually hospitals that are paying for uninsured immigrant health care, and they are attempting to collect and failing.
Illegals tend to use other legal SSN's, so really the hospitals try to chase down the other person.
I dont quite know how those people get away from paying though ...
Its hospitals that are losing.
Canada has a system that prevents illegals from using health care. When I was there, I was a visitor on a pilot program visa and my medical was covered, and my wife was just a visitor, and she never got any medical whatsoever ... luckily she didn't have any thing happen when she was there ... but we were so freaking angry that canada did that BS.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: frankieG on September 09, 2008, 09:06:06 AM
true-Canadian health care is not "free" however it does provide the same level of treatment for everyone. irregardless of wealth, status, eduction or any other societal influence.
false- prisons do not deter criminals. they are criminal universities. to drop crime in America we need restrictive gun laws, progressive health care for addicts heck for everyone. but primarily we need citizens to report and not tolerate crime. the police are our friends and not enemies.
we don't need restrictive gun laws. we don't need more laws. all we need are harsher penalties for the laws we have. and i sorta agree on bikejunkie's argument with the "drug war". how assinine is it for a drug dealer to get 30+plus years and a rapist only get 6 years? restricting guns will have about as much affect on crime as restricing drugs. absolutely no effect. out-law guns and the crime rate will go up. why? because criminals won't have to worry about wheather or not mr. and mrs john q taxpayer are armed when they try to rob them, car jack them etc. but we're so caught up in being politically correct and humane and all this happy horse crap.
Quote from: frankieG on September 09, 2008, 09:06:06 AM
to drop crime in America we need restrictive gun laws, progressive health care for addicts heck for everyone. the police are our friends and not enemies.
Restrictive gun laws would do nothing whatsoever. Leagally procured guns are rarely the ones used in crime. There is an Uzi in nearly every home in Isreal and they only have problems with terrorists, not the crimes we deal with. Did gun violence go down when the Brady Bill was in effect, that restricted the types of guns you could buy and the number of rounds that could be held in a pistol? The answer is no, which is why it wasn't renewed and allowed to lapse- it was pointless.Your contention that the Police are friends is your opinion, I think some are very good, some do what they can with the resources available, and some are just as bad as the "criminals" they claim to be stopping.
remember the golden rule: "he who has the gold makes the rules"
No ... he who has the gold, gets much of it stolen by inflation and Idiotic policies by the FED.
Check your retirement or 401K or 403B. The difference between friday and monday is what the FED stole from you. I know of someone who lost ~900 ...
Cool.
Buddha.
you may get turned away for non emergency or elective health care in Canada but that would only be the way. another thing is prescription medication costs. they are 5-10x higher in America than Canada. the Canadian government will not let the pharmaceutical companies get away with coughing its citizens. but here in the states those companies give kickbacks and perks to senators and congressmen to over charge us and make huge profits.