HI Guys,
My sister is actually the owner of the bike but I'm the one doing work on it. When she originally bought the bike used with about 13k on it, it's an 04 GS500 the chain was replaced with a non-oring chain. She's put about 4k on it since, I noticed the chain was incredibly loose, so adjusted, but noted tight areas in the chain, ie the chain would sag lower in sections. Additionally after only a few weeks the chain seemed to get loose again. Thinking the chain was shot today I replaaced sprockets and put on an o-ring chain. I still notice the chain still sags more at some points when spinning the rear wheel. I also notice a lot of rust powder all over that side on the sprocket cover, rear wheel and tire but attributed it to the old chain which was rusty. Is it possible for the drive sprocket shaft to be slightly bent to cause this?
I've never encountered anything like this before and the bike runs shifts fine with no difficulties.
Thoughts?
I also notice a slight ticking at idle but not sure if that's related or not, doesn't sound like a valve click and valves were checked about 4k ago.
Stumped.
Chris
Its a chain issue, and possibly a wheel alignment issue, your counter shaft being bent ... you know how much oil you'd leak ... it will put exxon valdez to shame.
Shitty chains, badly lined up wheels, overly tight chains etc are murder for chain wear.
Cool.
Buddha.
The red dust is down to whats known as fretting corrosion. Its produced by microscopic particles of steel that are worn away from the parent metal and imediately rust when they come into contact with moisture in the surrounding air......this is why worn chains can sometimes look rusty. The dust could have come from the old chain or sprockets if they were not kept lubricated or from the splines on the O/P shaft if they are starting to wear. Get the wheel aligned and everything cleaned up, keep the chain well lubed and get some heavy grease or coppaslip on the O/P shaft splines and it will vanish.
Some people, myself included say chains are best inspected and adjusted cold, do it warm and it will contract as it cools and tighten up. Likewise a servicable but warm chain can look like its worn and sagging due the effect of thermal expansion.
Your O/P shaft is unlikely to be running out, if it was you would know about it.....the noise, vibration and harshness would be obvious........it would feel like your back tyre has suddenly developed corners.
HI Guys,
Thanks so much for the tips. I was of the same mind in terms of shaft being bent, certainly their'd be seals leaking etc. So I will check the alignment.
Sadly, my sister didn't pay much attention to me in that she didn't lube the chain until about a month ago so probably 2k miles on it unlubed, something you can get away with on a o-ring chain but not the non o-ring. Then she took the lubing to heart and literally doused the chain until it was dripping even after a 45 minute drive.
Think she's finally getting the idea. It's her daily transport and has been for some months now 70 miles round trip.
Thanks very much for the explanation of the red dust as well!
Chris
4,000 miles is about all you can expect from a non-o-ring chain.
Chains do not wear evenly. This accounts for the changes in slack you see as you roll the bike. Lubricating the chain at this point will not "fix" the problem. It will continue to wear at a rapid rate, as the pins and bushings have been severely damaged.
Replace the chain with a good quality O-ring or x-ring chain and lubricate it regularly with a product such as Dupont's spray Teflon, available at Lowes stores.
An X-ring chain, maintained with just basic care, should last 20,000 miles.
Quote from: GeeP on September 06, 2008, 03:40:22 PM
A) 4,000 miles is about all you can expect from a non-o-ring chain.
Chains do not wear evenly. This accounts for the changes in slack you see as you roll the bike. Lubricating the chain at this point will not "fix" the problem. It will continue to wear at a rapid rate, as the pins and bushings have been severely damaged.
Replace the chain with a good quality O-ring or x-ring chain and lubricate it regularly with a product such as Dupont's spray Teflon, available at Lowes stores.
B) An X-ring chain, maintained with just basic care, should last 20,000 miles.
a) hmm, I'll keep you posted on how long my non o-ring chain lasts, with proper maintenance.
b) i'll bet a good quality x or o ring chain will last 30,000+ if maintained properly, and never allowed to rust. this is only because my original chain lasted 24,000 miles after the original owner allowed it to rust. i then started taking care of it proper, and that's what I got.
we'll see :)
Quote from: ohgood on September 06, 2008, 04:16:53 PM
Quote from: GeeP on September 06, 2008, 03:40:22 PM
A) 4,000 miles is about all you can expect from a non-o-ring chain.
Chains do not wear evenly. This accounts for the changes in slack you see as you roll the bike. Lubricating the chain at this point will not "fix" the problem. It will continue to wear at a rapid rate, as the pins and bushings have been severely damaged.
Replace the chain with a good quality O-ring or x-ring chain and lubricate it regularly with a product such as Dupont's spray Teflon, available at Lowes stores.
B) An X-ring chain, maintained with just basic care, should last 20,000 miles.
a) hmm, I'll keep you posted on how long my non o-ring chain lasts, with proper maintenance.
b) i'll bet a good quality x or o ring chain will last 30,000+ if maintained properly, and never allowed to rust. this is only because my original chain lasted 24,000 miles after the original owner allowed it to rust. i then started taking care of it proper, and that's what I got.
we'll see :)
I'm interested to hear your results. :)
Obviously, like you said, if any chain is allowed to fall into poor maintenance, sudden better maintenance won't slow the rate of wear. The damage has already been done, and the pins and bushings are full of wear products to further lap the moving surfaces.
I'm purposely giving conservative figures here. I've heard of non o-ring chains lubricated with a Scott Oiler or similar still in service with 75,000 miles. On the other hand, X-ring chains operated in dirty environments without maintenance will begin to show rapid signs of wear at less than 10,000 miles.
I suppose, in the end, it all comes down to what the rider considers an acceptable balance between chain life and maintenance time/cost. I like to ride a lot and not have to wash glop off my leathers and bike all the time. So, I use X-ring chains and swap them out after 25,000 to 30,000 miles, lubricating the O-rings with dry lubricant.
Some people like to stretch the life of chains to the max, so they use a continuous oil drip on an open chain and accept the oil slinging everywhere, including on them.
So, the tradeoffs come down to lifespan vs. mess, I think. Cost is fairly marginal as non-oring chains tend to be replaced at 2-3 times the rate of o-ring chains in my experiience, negating the cost factor. If you can make a non-o-ring chain last better than 30,000 miles without a drip oiler, that would change things though. :thumb:
I would check the rear hub to see if the sprocket is running true. A very small error in manufacture of the sprocket carrier or sprocket would havea big effect on chain tension. There is likely to always be some variation in chain tension as you rotate the wheel. Always adjust it at the tightest point, otherwise you will quickly cause excessive chain wear.
HI Guys,
Thanks again for all the useful information. I'm slowly bringing my sister into how to properly maintain a bike that's ridden as much as hers.
In all my years of riding I've never had to replace an o-ring chain on any of my bikes. I did pretty much attribute the lack of longevity on this non o-ring chain to be due to lack of maint. She has a hard time getting it on the center stand, since she works at the same hospital I do told her that I'd do it every couple weeks, she can just keep a can of lube at work.
Chris
No need to put it on the centerstand. Simply spray a the chain you can see and roll the bike forward a few feet. :thumb:
I've had my "99 GS about three months. The previous owner put a new chain on it right before the sale. I didin't realize until after I bought that it is a non-oring chain. I put about 500 miles on it and noticed a huge slack in the chain. I adjusted and a couple hundred miles later again the slack was large. It just won't stay within adjustment limits very long at all. I measured and the chain is stretching quite a bit. There are 1000 miles on the chain and by measuring over 20 links I figure I am already one third through the life of the chain. I'll probably only get 3,000 miles out of it and have to adjust very frequently. This seems to agree with other info on non-oring chains.
I have not yet checked out the sprockets but plan to do that in the next week or two. I have done a wheel alignment using the string method and that is in good shape. I don't hear any odd noises so I'm thinking the sprockets are in OK shape and not running out excessively. I will check them out and maybe while I'm in there I will switch to a 15 tooth front sprocket.
This chain is a pain - maybe I should just go for a good one and and replace it!