First I want to let everyone know I'm ok. I'm just a little beat up with bruising and some cuts, bumps, and scrapes. It happened this morning.
My sweet red 96 GS is pretty much toast....
Stupid UPS semi-truck pulled out in front of me this morning and I had the choice of hit the truck or go head on with a car coming at me in the other lane or dump my bike.
I dumped my bike but it went back on two wheels and finished itself off into the side of the truck. My gear saved my ass! I would be dead if it was not for good riding gear. It is all in bad shape but it saved me from major trauma or even worse.
This was in front of the UPS depot and the drivers supervisor was watching the entire incident as it happened. The supervisor was super pissed at his driver as he did not stop at a clearly posted stop sign and pulled right out in front of me.
I just wanted to tell everyone my story and if there is anyone not wearing any gear when they ride...please gets some and put it on!
Take care everyone and be safe. I will be replacing my beloved GS soon and will be back on the road.....
Jeppy
wow, glad to hear you are ok. Did UPS admit fault (bad on their part) but if its undeniable... I hope their insurance will be gracious :D
what are your plans for a new bike? GS or....?
finally what gear were you using? (i'm still in the market and haven't a clue where to begin. ($150 dollar jacket work as well as a $400 dollar one? etc...)
:o Glad to hear you are ok.
Dude that sucks. I hate UPS. They can't drive for crap. :2guns:
Hope it all works out good for you.
Keep us informed.
Yea UPS mofo's race down my residential street. They oughta run live gps on their trucks and freaking penalise the drivers.
Its always fun to live near a major UPS holding point. All gas stations around there are biund to ahve absolutely shitty coffee ... somethign about being turd brown ...
Cool.
Buddha.
I had a Joe Rocket jacket but I don't remember the model. I had a HJC AC-11 helmet and Joe rocket leather Alloy Gloves. My jeans were torn on the left leg but they helped with road rash.
UPS did claim fault and a UPS driver supervisor witnessed the entire thing. I will be getting a GS again. I love the GS but I'm not sure if I will go new or used. I will figure that out later.
Jeppy
Quote from: The Buddha on September 17, 2008, 08:53:41 AM
Yea UPS mofo's race down my residential street. They oughta run live gps on their trucks and freaking penalise the drivers.
Can't. They are union so it's always (not my fault) :bs:
Quote from: The Buddha on September 17, 2008, 08:53:41 AM
Its always fun to live near a major UPS holding point. All gas stations around there are biund to ahve absolutely shitty coffee ... somethign about being turd brown ...
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: Jeppy on September 17, 2008, 09:10:25 AM
UPS did claim fault and a UPS driver supervisor witnessed the entire thing.
WOW! That's odd.
:cheers:
Glad to hear you're ok. I hope UPS buys you a sweet new GS. The drivers around here are terrible. Apparently they've lost the ability to knock on doors so they always leave me missed delivery slips while I'm at home.
They just rip up my boxes and throw them in the yard or take them to the next house. FEDEX or USPS for me.
I'm good...just sore as hell. My boss keeps trying to get me to go home. Yes I went to work about two hours after it happened. I might just do it now that my nerves are calming down and the pain is kicking in. I already miss my GS....I'm so pissed that I don't have a bike. Once you have a bike and some retard takes it from you it really hurts and you feel naked. I will get over it in time......... :cry:
Wow, glad it's all going to end up OK. I prefer FedEx for everything, though I did have USPS deliver a brand new 32gb iPod touch to me the other day that was addressed to someone in Savannah :cookoo:
Wow, glad you're OK man. It all might work out now if you get a new GS from them and you can hock your old parts on here for some extra dough!!
Glad you're ok.
Get a lawyer involved right away. Go see your doctor/a doctor now....get it all documented.
Have a police report?
Glad your OK dude! Sounds like UPS Owes you very big! I'd be looking at a brand new GS and them footing the Bill! :cheers:
It's bad enough when teenagers, commuters, and your average sunday drivers aren't paying attention! However, when somebody is driving for a living, they should be held to a much higher standard! Those are my thoughts. :dunno_white: Glad you are okay! Definitely document. I'm not a big fan of the sue, Sue, SUE movement, but don't let 'em short change you for sure.
Quote from: theUBS on September 17, 2008, 09:35:05 PM
It's bad enough when teenagers, commuters, and your average sunday drivers aren't paying attention! However, when somebody is driving for a living, they should be held to a much higher standard! Those are my thoughts. :dunno_white: Glad you are okay! Definitely document. I'm not a big fan of the sue, Sue, SUE movement, but don't let 'em short change you for sure.
I agree, but that seems to be the exact opposite of what happens here in LA. The worst drivers on the road are bus drivers. They are always cutting people off, getting stuck in intersections during red lights and generally being rude and dangerous drivers. The delivery truck drivers around here aren't much better. It seems like the people who spent all day driving would realize the importance of being good drivers, but it seems to be the exact opposite. I'm really tired of dodging busses all the time!
Glad to hear you're ok. :thumb:
After my last post my left elbow and left shoulder popped and got all warm. I took off to the emergency room and found out my left shoulder and left elbow popped out of socket and my left hip was partially out of socket. I had everything popped back into place (some of the most pain ever!) and I'm now feeling pretty good with pain killers and other drugs. I also had the road rash on my left arm and leg taken care of. I also found out I have five bruised ribs and bruising on some bones in my left arm and left leg.
I guess when everything stared to calm down with my body it let everything fall apart. I do have a police report and everything is documented. I also hired a lawyer and he used his video camera this morning and found every driver that pulls out of the UPS depot pulls out into both lanes even when cars are coming. The same driver almost hit a city bus when he pulled out and it is all documented. I'm sure something good will come out of this considering I need a new jacket, gloves, helmet, jean pants, shoes, and my GS replaced. My lawyer is pricing everything out and we will go from there. He says we have one hell of a case. I will keep everyone updated but I just need to rest and let my body heal up.
Just remember...watch out for retards in brown delivery trucks and get some good gear. It really saved my ass from what the doctors said to me. I was really lucky.....
Jeppy
With that sort of gross negligence going on ON CAMERA, you will likely do pretty well with your day in court! Hope you heal quickly!
I doubt you'll go to court and I bet they will accept any reasonable offer by you to replace your bike, gear and cover your medical expenses. They don't need that kind of bad press.
what can brown do for you????.........
well i am very glad you are ok for now. DO NOT UNDERESTIMATE damage done to your body. Gears and what not has a specific price but as you can well see.. you didnt realize some of your injuries until later. Adrenaline basically makes you superman for a few hours if you have that much.. Which means it is a very likely possiblity that you wont see other effects on your body until few weeks from now. Go to the doctor to get check up and get the documented. Oh and make sure that supervisor signs document saying they were at fault because trust me.. once the manager hears of it.. the story will change if you did not get documentation first. Because supervisors are low on the management level they are pretty honest with this kind of thing.. but depending on the manager they have..some will try to have supervisor change story if no documentation was involved the first time.
Dont forget to include in the price of your old bike the cost of rejetting your carbs because you will need to to that again with the new bike you will get if its a gs500.
I have everything documented and written statements. I'm covered on that end of the accident so far.
I should be receiving a written quote from my local Suzuki dealer for full replacement of the GS with all of the mods done. I have a quote from my insurance and they said I should just consider the GS a loss and look at a replacement.
I checked out pricing to replace my gear and it will not be cheap...prices have gone up.
I would settle for a replacement of everything from UPS if this is an option and they would also have to pay for the lawyer fees. It would really make my day if they fired the driver also. I will update everyone on what happens....
Jeppy
everybody has bad days; i think that UPS driver just had his. I'm sure everyone here makes mistakes but it isnt until theres a consiquence to deal with that people start to think about reprimand. I ran a stop sign a couple days ago in a new neighborhood; i had no idea until it was pointed out. OOPS :X
I used to work For UPS as a Driver. I'll tell you more than anything its other drivers that aren't paying attention and try to pass up the truck in a blind turn. Or Cut into my turn line while on a cell phone almost hitting my Truck head on. As for this incident its clearly the Freight UPS drivers fault. Keep in mind we have a Hard job, everything is based on Time and how far you progress through your route. And then you get a call from your local center asking you how many packages you have on board? And when they should expect the Truck to return.
Ok, I'm going to play big mean jerkface for a minute. You listed your options as A) Hit the truck, B) Hit an oncoming car, or C) Lay it down. That frightens me, especially when you note the bike had enough distance to right itself before hitting. Before you get back on the road, take an MSF course, and practice panic braking. You can stop that bike in a far shorter distance using the brakes than you'll slide in your gear if you lay it down. The correct answer in 99.9999% of situations that riders claim they had to 'lay it down' is usually just stop the bike using the brakes it had. With modern rubber, if you roll the front brake on, and not just jab at it, I don't care how strong you are, you're not getting that front wheel to brake loose, the bike will flip you before it slides if you use proper brake technique. The only way to get proficient is going to be practice.
Sermon over, glad to hear you're ok. It's even better to hear that you've got a damn near air tight case! Put the screws to 'em and post up pics of the new, UPS sponsored mount when you get it.
Yea jeppy but sorry to say.. the driver will NOT be fired. They are union. It takes murder if that even for someone to get fired in a union environment.
As a general rule I would watch out for ALL retards in cars,trucks or whatever- they are all trying to kill you and if you ride without gear you are a dumbass. Glad you are doing okay.
I figured someone would say something about the bike going back on two wheels. I did try to stop and I rolled with the bike. I did take a MSF course. I took the beginners and advance courses. I did not have much time to make a full stop. I tried not to lock up the brakes but I have to admit trying to avoid hitting the gas tank and steel steps on the side of the truck or going head on with a car was not something I wanted to do. My bike went about five feet on two wheels on its own. There really was not enough time to be a defensive rider. Everything happened really fast. The only option to avoid death or major injury was to dump the bike when I could not complete my stop.
I don't blame UPS or their drivers. I know there is a small number of them that need to learn how to drive better... but my question is the driver did admit to seeing me to the police and to his supervisor then why did he not stop? Why did he pull out in front of me? Especially when drivers of the tractor trailers know the big trucks make wide turns....
I know he will not get fired. I was just taking trash but I still just want my gear replaced and at least full repairs to my bike or a replacement also paying for my medical would be great. I still feel a lot of pain but I will fully recover in time.
Jeppy
You should get all of those thing. It was his fault and that means UPS's insurance will be paying. I'd dump my bike or eject like you did before any of the other alterantives you mentioned.
You need to be reimbursed for everything you put into the bike, all your time off work, all medical bills, attorney's fees, and future physical problems, because if you popped joints out of sockets (unless this has happened previously) the ligaments are stretched now and everything will pop out easier there. Also there is usually some kind of joint abrasion that eventually leads to pain and arthritis as you age. So let your atty get as much as possible. I got rear ended in a car so bad that I couldn't ride a gentle trot on my horse for a year and I always had problems with my neck that just kept getting worse, and now I have bone spurs that, 20 years later, lead to chronic inflamation, headaches, and muscle weakness. I got a $5,000. settlement then which wasn't much for the pain I was in from whiplash and back injury, and I'd gladly pay it back waaaay more in today's $$$ to have that pain and physical limitation removed.
Ok everyone. I pretty much got what I wanted. I hired a lawyer and he had me call the supervisor of the driver. The supervisor informed me I was at fault and the driver was just a witness to my accident.
I informed my lawyer of this and the two of us presented our case to him and informed him all I want is just to have all the damages paid and the fee for the lawyer. This is really all I wanted as I did not want to drag this out in court and I'm not one of those dip-shits that think thousands or even hundreds of thousdand would make me feel better. I just wanted my GS fixed or replace, my gear replaced, doctor bill paid and lawyer fee paid.
After the supervisor was shown video footage of his driver that cause the accident along with other drivers not stopping at the clearly posted stop sign when leaving the property he got all kinds of nervous. He also saw in the video every driver crossing into the lane I was in along with crossing into on coming traffic he was super pissed. I made my offer to him and he contacted his insurance and his supervisor. He informed them of the situation and I got everything covered. I got every penny I wanted and even a few extra just to make sure I had everything covered.
So...long story short I will have my GS back on the road and I will have all new better gear and I will not be riding pass the UPS location again. The supervisor is relocating the driver to a different location and will make everyone take a madatory driver saftey course and he will be installing cameras to watch his drivers better and avoid future incidents.
I'm happier but still in pain. Just remember everyone. Don't take shaZam! from anyone, take a rider saftey course...and get some gear on. A helmet, tank top, shorts and flipflops will not protect you.
Thanks for everyones help...
Jeppy
Glad justice was served! Gotta love what a little video footage will do for your case! :cheers:
Quote from: theUBS on September 22, 2008, 06:44:29 PM
Glad justice was served! Gotta love what a little video footage will do for your case! :cheers:
:thumb:
Yeah...I'm pretty happy about how it ended. I just need to wait for the check to arrive in the mail. It should take a few days from what the insurance rep was saying. The major downside to everything is I will not be able to ride for a while even when the GS is fixed. My dislocated hip needs time to heal up or getting on the bike could knock it back out. The doctor said it needs about three or four months at the very least to heal before getting back in the saddle. I have a follow up appointment in two months to make sure everything is healing up or healed enough to ride. I should just give it the four months because having things pop out and put back into place was so very painful. I don't want to have it happen again.
Thanks again everyone for the support.
Jeppy
Hopefully you won't have any enduring health issues, because when an insurance company does a payout you basically release them, the company and the driver from any further responsibility and you would be out of luck. Glad you got what you wanted and are healing up well.
Glad to hear they paid up! Get well soon.
Quote from: Kurlon on September 18, 2008, 05:58:39 PM
Ok, I'm going to play big mean jerkface for a minute. You listed your options as A) Hit the truck, B) Hit an oncoming car, or C) Lay it down. That frightens me, especially when you note the bike had enough distance to right itself before hitting. Before you get back on the road, take an MSF course, and practice panic braking. You can stop that bike in a far shorter distance using the brakes than you'll slide in your gear if you lay it down. The correct answer in 99.9999% of situations that riders claim they had to 'lay it down' is usually just stop the bike using the brakes it had. With modern rubber, if you roll the front brake on, and not just jab at it, I don't care how strong you are, you're not getting that front wheel to brake loose, the bike will flip you before it slides if you use proper brake technique. The only way to get proficient is going to be practice.
Sermon over, glad to hear you're ok. It's even better to hear that you've got a damn near air tight case! Put the screws to 'em and post up pics of the new, UPS sponsored mount when you get it.
Glad someone pointed this out. IMO it's NEVER a good idea to dump the bike. You don't stop faster that way, or avoid additional harm. In any accident your best bet it to ALWAYS stay on the bike and apply massive braking. You may hit something but the amount of Kinetic energy in your body (1/2)m*v^2 will be significantly less than if you dump.
Think about it. KE is a function of V squared. Going 50mph versus 30 mph is 2500 vs 900. Almost THREE times as less and not even half the speed. Just .02 from an engineering student.
Glad you're ok.
I had a UPS driver pull out in front of me yesterday. He ran a stop sign. Thankfully i had time to brake and I was in my truck. :nono:
Quote from: tussey on September 23, 2008, 09:37:19 AM
Glad someone pointed this out. IMO it's NEVER a good idea to dump the bike. You don't stop faster that way, or avoid additional harm. In any accident your best bet it to ALWAYS stay on the bike and apply massive braking. You may hit something but the amount of Kinetic energy in your body (1/2)m*v^2 will be significantly less than if you dump.
Think about it. KE is a function of V squared. Going 50mph versus 30 mph is 2500 vs 900. Almost THREE times as less and not even half the speed. Just .02 from an engineering student.
Glad you're ok.
i dont understand....
your explanation is a bit arbitrary
He said there wasnt enough time to stop. Obviously there is no way to reconstruct this but randomly spitting out Kinetic Energy proves nothing. The point is take a full hit running into the truck (even if slowing down very very very slightly) or bail. There are far too many variables to state "stay on the bike" as the end all answer. Experience is the biggest player in instinct. If he knew his bike could make it, i'm sure it may have been a different story.
What your arguement is missing:
actual Velocity of bike
coefficient of friction between the brakes and rotors
coefficient of friction between tires and ground (and if surface conditions are constant)
distance from UPS truck + other obsticles
edit:
and keeping in mind that the accident is an inelastic collision; and that your body cannot be added to the mass of the bike (except when calculating normal force) so while it shares the same velocity it carries a different momentum. (i.e. in this system you cannot be considered part of the bike if collision occurs)
but then again....physics isnt my major
Quote from: tussey on September 23, 2008, 09:37:19 AM
Quote from: Kurlon on September 18, 2008, 05:58:39 PM
Glad someone pointed this out. IMO it's NEVER a good idea to dump the bike. You don't stop faster that way, or avoid additional harm. In any accident your best bet it to ALWAYS stay on the bike and apply massive braking. You may hit something but the amount of Kinetic energy in your body (1/2)m*v^2 will be significantly less than if you dump.
Think about it. KE is a function of V squared. Going 50mph versus 30 mph is 2500 vs 900. Almost THREE times as less and not even half the speed. Just .02 from an engineering student.
Glad you're ok.
Ah, physics. Always rears it's head in automotive forums, equally in sports cars as motorcycle forums. I'm not a physics major or engineering student either, but it's pretty apparent that in most situations, you double the speed, you quadruple the forces acting on it. This applies for horsepower translating to acceleration (why a 400 hp car doesn't accelerate 2x as fast as a 200 hp car), wind resistance (roughly 4x the drag for 2x the speed) and collisions. But you're suggesting that he should have it the object at lower velocity rather than slide at a higher velocity. I'd agree with you if it was a given that he would collide with the object, but if there's a chance he would avoid hitting it, then it *might* be possible that sliding is the better option. Or not. We can't know because we weren't there.
What is misleading about your suggestion is that it doesn't take into account force transfer *over time*. A sudden stop transfers a hell of a lot of more kinetic energy to the object doing the crashing than a crash that incorporates crumple zones or friction. It's possible that the friction of his leathers/textiles against the road is greater than what he could have generated using braking. His braking would not have been ideal. So dumping very well could have slowed him more. Also, pressure = force over area. Colliding with a UPS truck on a bike could have led to "shaper" impact points than dumping, which could distribute the contact area over a larger area than just his head (I imagine him flying head first into the side of a truck). Let's say he dumped, the bike kept on going, clearing both his body and the truck. You've removed a 420 lb, pointy object traveling 50 mph from the net force transfer to the rider. Then his body hit the pavement and slid; now you have force transfer to the ground, not a truck. Finally he collides with the rear wheels of the truck which hopefully aren't rolling forward. Let's say his hip, flank, legs and helmet hit the wheels. Depending on how much of his body was in contact with the pavement and the amount of drag his gear applied to the pavement, he may strike the wheels at less than 30 mph and he may do it over a larger surface area. Overall, that's a better scenario than having the wheel come to a dead stop at 30 mph and having him rocketing over the handlebars, hitting the truck cab or UPS van wall.
Also, a collision could have led to a "high side" dump, if he cleared the front of the truck (say, striking the wheel well) and we all know that a low side is preferable. Most spinal injury incurred in a motorcycle is due to the hips contacting the pavement, not to force applied to the spine via the helmet (British government motorcycle safety report)
I don't mean to start at war at all. I just want to give a counterpoint that "always staying on the bike" is the best option. Truthfully, I don't think he made the decision to dump or stay on the bike in the moment of the accident -- rather, it was probably a judgment he made in hindsight.
If you look at my posts and find the one about my accident on a Katana 750, flying off the bike and landing in dense foliage was a far better outcome than staying on the bike. But I didn't get to make a choice. It was in God's hands.