GStwin.com GS500 Message Forum

So I am buying a new car soon and one would think after 3 months of pondering I would have had it settled. Well No! I still cant make my mind up. My mom relates this to me picking my bride. Regardless... lets move on.....

So initially I had the following requirements: Good gas mileage (30mpg at least), reasonable handling, good sound system, luxury features and under 27OTD.
My previous car came with windup windows and manual AC so even power door locks and mirrors = luxury for me.

I initially started with the following 7 cars: Toyota Corolla/Matrix, VW Jetta, Mazda 3s, Ford Focus, Ford Fusion/Mercury Milan, Hyundai Sonata, Honda Civic.

I quickly got rid of Toyota (not appealing), the Fusion and the Sonata (though i liked this one but it was pricey) due to price and otherwise feature packages.

I ended up with 3 cars on my list, VW Jetta SE, Mazda 3s Grand Touring and Honda Civic EX-L and then I test drove the Honda Civic Si.

So here is the problem.. I finally widdled the 3 down to 1 car but cant make my mind up on the models.

2009 Honda Civic - Both cars are Sedans, Manual Transmissions, With Navigation system.
[/b]
EX-L:
140HP, Leather Interior, Heated Seats, 87gas with 35mpg hwy (29 combined) + 5speed manual + 160W sound

Si:
197HP, Curve hugging cloth seats, 91gas with 29mpg hwy (25 combined) + limited slip diff and 6 speed manual + 350W sound

Both are under 25000 dollars and I cant make my mind up.

The whole problem is that a part of me wants that luxury with leather and gas savings and the other part goes.. 'boy racer wooo'..
Then there is the part about attracting the opposite sex.

http://automobiles.honda.com/civic/

My opinion follows:

Why buy a 2009 anything?

Let someone else take the depreciation hit.  Buy a three-year old car, save a ton of money, never be upside down on a loan, and be able to afford a more luxurious car.

My folks own a Sonata (automatic V6) and my sister has a Sonata (auto L4).  They both love them.  Quiet, nice warranty, great on the highway.

I'm an old fogey who tends to buy an older used car in great shape and drive it until it's really old.  Currently I'm driving a 1995 Maxima that I bought for $5000 in 2003 with 125K on it.  It has 241K on it now and still runs and looks great.  I've only had to replace "normal" things -- O2 sensors, tires, small things.  Cars are pretty darned dependable these days.  My last Maxima (a 1990) was sold at 287K still running well.

Honda Civic EX-L hands down. The Si needs higher octane petrol I believe and that isn't a plus. I would stay far away from Ford/Mercury, and Mazda. Build quality just isn't there compared to Honda. No way, no how. Especially a ragged ass Focus. The VW........could "eat you alive" in "little things" like tune-ups. I would check Consumer reports on that model. The Corolla is a nice ride but IMHO not as quality as the Honda. It is a head tall over all the aforementioned in my opinion. Get a Sedan. 4 door. No bullshit 2 door hassles. 4 doors have given me great peace and comfort when hauling kids and groceries and the like. That Honda Civic can be a 200,000+ mile car if you take care of it. Only bad I've heard of them is keeping an eye on the "CV" boots? They split after so many years and the joints have to get replaced if you don't catch it in time. They are long running quality vehicles.

I wouldn't buy a new anything.  Nothing.  I would go as new as 2007 but not far beyond that.  One car I've REALLY REALLY REALLY been eyeballing lately is a 2007 Grand Prix GXP.  There's one at our local Toyota lot for $18,000...of course next year it'll only be worth $11,000 but still...300+ hp out of the box...375+ hp bpu?!  That's kick ass even if it is front wheel drive.  Still gets 25~30mpg if you drive it sanely.

Outside of that I would get a 330i.  You can get a very nice 330i with a 6spd, more hp than any of the cars on your list, and have something that's built by people who know how to make sports cars for $15,000.  250hp rwd with all leather, power everything, and comes with it's own rails on the road.  Plus...think about it if you were a chick.  You going home with the guy in the flourescent blue roller-skate looking civic or the nice dressed dude in the BMW?  shaZam! works if you think about it like a guy...I'd look at the guy in the civic and kick his ass for being a retard and buying a $25,000 Honda when he could have bought a real car.  Replace the guy in the bimmer with a chick...preferably my wife because she's awesome...and I wouldn't even have to act ghey.

I'm with Mak here, get a real car that's a few years older.

I get about 32 hwy in my XJ6 VDP and it is absolutely loaded with options, has 250rwhp and looks good doing it.  The V8 XJR's get about the mileage of an Si and have over 400hp...........and leather interiors.

Buy used.  Save money.  Get whatever makes sense to you in terms of reliability / longevity / efficiency.  You can always add a custom stereo.  IMO, power options are just something else to possibly go on the fritz if you intend to keep the car a while.   :dunno_white:  Also, IMO, if the chick cares that much about what you're driving, she MAY NOT be worth it.  :dunno_white:

As a master Honda technician I can say both are great cars. The Si need premium and gets less gas mileage, but looks better, handles better, and is much faster. The EX-L is a great all around car. Looking used is one way to go, but there is something to be said for buying a brand new car, just make sure you plan on keeping it for at least 4 years. If you are fickle and are just gonna want to off it in a year or so, you will get wrecked financially- though Hondas hold their resale values extremely well.

Take a look at the 2008 mitsubishi lancer gts.  I drove one for about a year.(my ex's car that i helped get her)  I loved it. 

I've been bitten in the buttocks buying used vehicles. I always try to buy new if possible. If I actually KNEW the "little old lady next door that drove it the 20K miles that were on it, then yeah........great. I've also found that some "low mileage" vehicles are NOT sold at tremendous discounts on the lots which should be. They are NOT new. I'm a firm believer at "ME" throwing lowballs at Dealer's until I get ONE near where I want. I have no probs with "turning around and walking off" after telling what "I" will pay (after much much research on their actual (not Dealer invoice) price. I take pride in making them furiously pissed. They are notorious liars and con-men.
Back to buying new...........I am not a mechanic..........I do NOT want to come home after a hard day at work and then have to "work on my car". That is bullshit. Life is stressful enough without that bullshit. If I have to get in a car right NOW and drive to Juneau, Alaska and BACK, I want piece of mind. You should get that with a new Honda. Don't buy any extended warranty until "later", if you feel you need it. Do NOT buy any form of "life insurance" on the loan that they will try to sell you. Ask what their "document fees" are. They will rape you on that too. Have different loan amounts at different % calculated and with you in a briefcase when you shop, so that if you finally make it into the "finance manager's office" (this is the last place and chance they have to jack you in the backside), you can quickly look at the loan and see if rape is closeby (they have transposed numbers on us at the last second--to their advantage--example $9800.00 instead of $8900.00). Make a copy of your registration and leave it in the glove box and keep your original. I've had them TAKE and KEEP mine in order to get me to "come back" and get it to give them one last time to "sell me". Just some points to keep in mind. And always remember.........there ain't nothin' like the smell of a new car, especially one brimming with leather.

p.s. you should be able to get a "new" 2008 with ~0 miles on it.............this late in 2008............it's still "new" if it hasn't been "used".
Dealers should be trying to get rid of ALL 2008's by now...........

EX all the way. you get the nice features without the rarity of the SI. the SI produces more power sure, but if you -need- more than what the EX has, you'll want a turbo or something , really.

imho the best car we've ever owned is a simple accord ex WAGON, yes wagon. 222,000 miles of pure driving fun. still starts without a hiccup, still runs 120MPH as long as you ask it, still gets 25-30 mpg out of 87 octane.

any vehicle that required >87 is off my list of possibilities.

any vehicle that doesn't have a big T or H on the hood/trunk is off my list. (these are the best cars in the world!)

we drove a SI civic before buying the accord ex, and honestly it startled me how much power it had. i was afraid the wife might drift in a turn accidentally in the rain. amazing power, just not for us.

enjoy :D

New with leather and luxuries you say, your not gonna get 30mpg but yiou'll get 25mpg. Ford mustang GT. If you can live with cloth instead of leather a deluxe runs about 27k if you want leather you can probably get into a premium package for around 28k. ford also has 2k off on the  leftover 08's so feasibly you could get into a premium for around 26. The GT runs on pump gas 87 octane, and you can have it in an auto if you want it that way.

We wound up with her new car for 22,500 out the door we had the 2000 off plus owner loyalty cash for trading in her focus.

Screw the boy racer toy's :thumb:

And 25mpg was with my driving on the way to San Antonio.

If you go to Kelly Blue Books website you can look up invoice price on new cars (what the dealer paid) and that gives you an idea what you should offer. The tricky thing is, at least at our dealership, civics are in extremely high demand thanks to fuel prices- the Si not so much. You have to be fair and figure the dealership to make $500-$1000 over invoice on the car, but that will be well under MSRP (sticker) for instance:http://www.kbb.com/kbb/NewCars/PricingReport/2008_Honda_Civic_Sedan_223805.aspx

Also, the reason at a dealership you don't pay a lot less than a new car for a low mileage one is because that is where dealers make most of their money- low trade to one guy and full book to you. There are some expenses like reconditioning the vehicle but used cars are where the money is. Also, you can get much better interest rates on new cars than used, so in a lot of cases it comes out in the wash- your payment would be the same. I would never buy a Mustang. I wouldn't buy any vehicle from a company on the verge of bankruptcy- how well built do you think that thing is, after they have done everything to make it as cheaply as possible? Sorry- I shouldn't hate.

Quote from: spc on September 21, 2008, 07:40:45 PM
I'm with Mak here, get a real car that's a few years older.

I get about 32 hwy in my XJ6 VDP and it is absolutely loaded with options, has 250rwhp and looks good doing it.  The V8 XJR's get about the mileage of an Si and have over 400hp...........and leather interiors.

I've played the used car game, not worth it.

Better interest rate, full warranty, yada yada yada. And I have never bought a used vehicle that didn't have the damned check engine light come on shortly after buying it. PLus new car salesmen are much nicer to work with in my opinion. I'm with revere other than normal maintenance I don't want to touch a wrench on my vehicles anytime while I own them. And yep nothing beats that new car smell and feel.

It's okay to hate Junkie, everyones entitled to their opinions. How many times have the big 4 been on the verge of bankruptcy?

Quote from: bettingpython on September 22, 2008, 07:11:52 AM

It's okay to hate Junkie, everyones entitled to their opinions. How many times have the big 4 been on the verge of bankruptcy?

The big 4? who is the 4th? I guess they won't ever go bankrupt because the feds have to problem pumping billions into their companies to keep them afloat because they were stupid and continued to build rediculous SUVs and trucks when they should have learned the lessons form the 70's and realized smaller fuel efficient cars that aren't garbage are good to have around. If Pedro's Taco Stand is on the vergo of going under because Pete's hamburgers are cheaper and nobody is buying tacos you don't see the federal government giving him $100k to stay in buisness- but time and again they will bail out these idiots running Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler.

Bike Junkie.............let Uncle Revere allow you in on a little secret..........those invoice prices you see on sites/credit unions/banks/in the "finance manager's" office are NOT the "true" price. They caught on to that long time ago. In fact.......employees, relatives, and fleet owners routinely get from 2 to 4 % LOWER than THAT!!! Don't feel guilty or sorry for the lying bastards. They want you to think their children have no shoes and their wives have to use oily rags found in the dumpster for tampons. See him standing there with his crisp Arrow shirt, 2 pounds of gold around each wrist and a half gallon of Polo cologne doused on his body? He will have you bent over a proverbial stump and his scrotum will be slapping against your buttocks in less than 3 shakes of a sheep's tail !!!! They all get kickbacks from the Company/Detroit/Japan or where ever. They ALL make PLENTY of money. I know of only ONE individual that really "got the best" of a salesman/dealership one time in my life. The salesman was fired after the daily or weekly tally and "they" tried to sue and intimidate him. Didn't work.
He really got a deal of a lifetime. And slept about 12 hrs. that night grieving over it. I hope "Good Guy" gets a good deal but.....
I think I'd rather buy a house than go shopping for an Automobile. It is exhausting. At least for "my style", it is. They do not like me here at the Honda Dealerships. We had to finally drive 80 miles to get a deal that "I" could live with. Wifee got a new Accord (with the full rich thick leather package) and daughter got a new Accord with cloth package. Good cars. Damn good cars. I could "make love" in that leathered out Accord...................alone.................sigh..................

Well, here is a couple thoughts.
1: all dealerships are not created equal, I work for a Honda dealer and know that the kbb invoice is what our invoice is. There are some things like dealer holdback, and flooring that I don't understand totally (I'm in service) and I know contribute to dealer profit but invoice is far less than MSRP and you won't find one for much below invoice. we sell most of our cars for a few hundred under invoice, but popular models go for more. I know a close freind set me up with his fleet manager when I bought my Dodge pickup and they sold it to me for 14k under sticker. I know few people buy for MSRP but a 42k truck for 26k after the factory rebate is a good deal for a fully loaded half ton 4x4.

2: If the dealer you are at is a duck, then walk. Shop around before by going through their internet department. Know the deal you expect before you have to talk to a lot shark.

3: Enjoy your Accord, they really are sweet and I'd totally own one. That said, our Element is the best car I have ever owned.

LOL big 4.......ooops :oops:

Thinking bike manufacturers in a car discussion.

I wish I could have waited to buy my truck until this year like was originally planned, Damn good deals on trucks now. I could have easily gotten more truck for the same money. Oh well c'est la vie.

FYI unions are what's killing the big 3, not their unwillingness to change. They keep making shaZam! thats not selling because if they don't the people who do make shaZam! that sells like the focus, will walk off when everyone strikes becasue ford can't support the employee base the union says they have to continue supporting.

One more reason to not vote for the big socialist ticket, unions ruining businesses for the past 90 years :thumb:

Actually at one point in time they served a purpose before fair labor laws were enacted, now they're just a self perpetuating money maker that sponges off of businesses by holding them hostage.

I effen hate Unions.

They hold the public hostage as well. The friggin' police and firefighter unions here in Oregon absolutley fleece us constantly. I hate unions as well.

i recently bought a 2009 Corrolla LE. (we have bout 3k on it now). it has been an awesome little car. i didn't exactly get hosed in the deal but i am upside down but thats due to the fact i was upside down in my trade-in car. but i was constantly wrenching on the car i traded it. so, sure you can look at it like i pay $450 a month for a car that i should be paying less for. but i'm paying for my peace of mind. i looked at the civics as well. but the civic was a bit smaller on the inside than my toyota. i needed the little bit of extra room for my family. otherwise, i may have bought the civic instead. i don't think you can go wrong with either honda you buy. so many people say don't buy new because you'll lose money. that may be true, but only if you plan on keeping the car a short time. if you plan on having it for a long, long time, i think you win in the end. honda's and toyotas are at the top as far as resale unless i'm mistaken. i never would have pictured myself owning a toyota but after we test drove ours, it had to come home with us! and there really is nothing like that new car feeling/smell. best of luck to you!  :thumb:

Quote from: bikejunkie223 on September 22, 2008, 09:30:03 AM
They hold the public hostage as well. The friggin' police and firefighter unions here in Oregon absolutley fleece us constantly. I hate unions as well.

I hate unions because I want to be uninsured, work 7 days a week, and I want to earn less money.  I love being hostage to my employer!

Back to the topic, I would stay away from the Si.  The engine is great, but its in a front wheel drive car, so there is no point.  

i don't work 7 days a week. i have insurance. (sure i pay for it but i have it, i've known people who pay more than me). and i make a decent wage. i provide for my family. i'm happy with my employeer. and we're non-union. (i'm a machinist for Crown Equipment, forklift maker, if you're curious. )  :thumb:

on topic though, why do you say that engine is pointless in a front wheel drive car?  :dunno_white: i have previoulsy owned 2 hondas: a 1993 civic and a 1989 accord. both had well over 200k on them when i parted ways with them. and both ran reasonably well for such high mileage.

Well the Si actually can put its power down very well. The 200 hp runs through a limited slip, so its not like the power goes to waste. Sure its not a RWD, but I have seen some videos of it on Youtube doing 100mph in like 4th gear and it does 0-60 in 6.5 seconds, yeah its slower than our gs500 but not bad for an econobox.

I still think the EX-L is a better value, but a part of me really likes the darn Si.. gosh I wish i was in a perfect world, I would drop the Si engine and drive train into the EX-L

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Cars-Trucks___03-LANCER-EVOLUTION-TURBO-4X4-SUNROOF_W0QQitemZ280267945406QQddnZCarsQ20Q26Q20TrucksQQddiZ2282QQcmdZViewItem?hash=item280267945406&_trkparms=72%3A727%7C39%3A1%7C65%3A12%7C240%3A1308&_trksid=p4506.c0.m245#lg

cant get over how cheap they are

2 litre turbo. 26 mpg..  4 wheel drive ABS  2003 .. Sexxxxy Looks!

Quote from: Juan1 on September 22, 2008, 01:24:46 PM

Quote from: bikejunkie223 on September 22, 2008, 09:30:03 AM
They hold the public hostage as well. The friggin' police and firefighter unions here in Oregon absolutley fleece us constantly. I hate unions as well.

I hate unions because I want to be uninsured, work 7 days a week, and I want to earn less money.  I love being hostage to my employer!

Back to the topic, I would stay away from the Si.  The engine is great, but its in a front wheel drive car, so there is no point.  

I'm non-union, have insurance, make a good wage and don't work 7 days a week so not sure where you are going with that one- I shouldn't have to pay a portion of my salary to somebody to hold the employers feet to the fire. It's called a free market and you should be worth what you can negotiate, if you need better insurance or more pay be a man and negotiate it yourself, or find a different job that gives you what you want or feel you deserve. workers shouldn't be owed anything because some union boss can make production stop if they aren't given what they want.

As for your second point- you clearly have never driven either a modern Honda, modern front wheel drive car, and defenitely not an Si. It's a fast car, that corners very well, is very comfortable, and fits in any parking space. that's the point.

"Good Guy"..............you remember all that I typed...............it's important...........

One car that wasn't on your list is the Saturn Astra.  Maybe it's not what you're looking for though, as everything on your list seems to be a sedan.

It's really caught my attention, though I'm sure it doesn't have the reliability of the Honda.  But it does have good looks, uniqueness, and great handling.

Quote from: bettingpython on September 22, 2008, 09:14:17 AM
FYI unions are what's killing the big 3, not their unwillingness to change.
I effen hate Unions.

I don't actually remember when Unions used to be for good things, but they were at some point...
Got this at the Milwaukee Ale House:
(http://i85.photobucket.com/albums/k57/n2brewha/PullChain.jpg)

Now on topic.  I bought a 1987 Honda Accord lxi for $300.  I got all the fluids changed and put a new front axle in it to take care of the CV joint/boot problem that does seem to plague Hondas.  Some say it's ugly.  I have the sunroof duct taped.  I care not about its appearance because I've been very blessed in that it keeps running! (Knock, knock)  Next month I'll have had that Accord for 6 years!!!  SIX years, and no car payment!   :cheers:

I also dig WRX's...but I got to thinking about it and I figured out that I like anything that isn't the same goofy looking Honda/Scion that's on every corner right now.

If I was buying a boy racer toy it would definately be a scooby.

After reading the OP's post, I would like to suggest the following additional 2 options:

1) Dodge Caliber SRT4 - from a performance standpoint, it crushes the Si nomatter what the civic nutswingers or Car and Ricer..erm...Driver, say about it.  You can get nav and still be < 27k OTD.
2) Subaru WRX 4-door sedan with spoiler delete.  You'll lose the "boy racer" look and get more of a "sporty sedan" look with the delete, and even though getting nav and other options may take you over your 27k OTD price, if you live anywhere that actually has a real winter (read: snow), the AWD comes in handy.  For me, id would be using AWD a lot more often than the nav.

Honda, or Subaru if you're buying new, but seriously as stated over and over why buy new.  Buy a 2-3 year old car and let someone take the hurt of buying new.  You're more than likely going to get something that just as nice if you have time and can be picky.  I'd go civic SI 4 door if you can do an 07 with nav, and six speed.  To my knowledge, I don't think you have to put premium in those but I could be wrong.  Stay away from VW, BMW, Volvo, Jag, and other euro makes if you want something that will actually start when you want it to.  Not saying those cars aren't nice, but they flat have nowhere near the reliability of the honda/toyota cars on the road.  I'd look at toyota as well but you said it was out.  How about a scion TC.  Fun little cars with a 2.4 liter camry motor in it that will go forever and get decent gas mileage.  Just watch what you're expecting because if in reality you're expecting 30mpg, you're shooting way too high if you're not going for a honda fit, toyota echo/yaris, or corolla.  None, NONE in reality will get that kind of mileage unless you're highway all the time.  For real fuel econ. values, go to www.fueleconomy.gov  its a great site.

I am with UBS ... I paid a whopping 800 for a nissan paid $200 for fixing the calipers and other BS, may need a tire shortly but 40 clicks to the gal, cold AC and nice and peppy, and that car in 1 month has saved me $400 in gas alone. As long as it runs ... I'm happy ... knock on wood. I may paint it in 2-3 months and its POSiness will reduce by 40% ... atleast.

BTW UBS, there is a school of thought about being drunk while working with tools ... people who are classically factory workers sometimes are very against it, the potential for accidents are too great. In fact during one of our great weekend trashes last year, 3 drunks who had never split a motor case swore that all bolts were out and watched as the only non drunk member of the team used a bolt and a power tool against one of the bearing points in the case 1/2 ... only to split it in 1/2 ... and then we find that the bolts under the alternator were still in ... jeez, that was a bad night. Being drunk definetly has its disadvantages ... though I only do things I done a 100 times when I have had any alchohol ... and I dont drink more than 1 beer and 1 wine by myself.
But I can see the danger in being drunk at a factory. I do desk work, and bike BS is my way of unwinding ... drinking is OK in that context.
Cool.
Buddha.

From my multiple poll at multiple sites.. the general concensous is that I either get another car or get the EX-L

With gas prices on the way up ($25 increase per barrel yesterday) .. i think its more prudent getting a bit more fuel efficiency. My old Focus gave me 31mpg and was doing that on the streets too. (but thats my driving style).. Any case looks like its teh EX-L that's teh winner. (at least for now).

Chances are, you'll be happy with the EX-L.  I'm sure I'd enjoy driving a new one myself--if I didn't get anal about every new scuff, scratch, and rattle.  My car?  I expect that.  It's just part of the experience.  :laugh: Enjoy the fresh smell if you decide to buy new.  Just keep in mind it'll wear off.

Quote from: The Buddha on September 23, 2008, 09:42:30 AM
BTW UBS, there is a school of thought about being drunk while working with tools ... people who are classically factory workers sometimes are very against it, the potential for accidents are too great. In fact during one of our great weekend trashes last year, 3 drunks who had never split a motor case swore that all bolts were out and watched as the only non drunk member of the team used a bolt and a power tool against one of the bearing points in the case 1/2 ... only to split it in 1/2 ... and then we find that the bolts under the alternator were still in ... jeez, that was a bad night. Being drunk definetly has its disadvantages ... though I only do things I done a 100 times when I have had any alchohol ... and I dont drink more than 1 beer and 1 wine by myself.
But I can see the danger in being drunk at a factory. I do desk work, and bike BS is my way of unwinding ... drinking is OK in that context.
Cool.
Buddha.

The only times beer/alcohol seemed to help me was when I was at the bowling alley, or the pool hall.  And at that, there was a very fine line to walk!  Just enough to take an edge off.  I just thought it was humorous the change that society has gone through.  Now it's all about benefits, wages, and working conditions.  Back then, beer was the union mandate!

Quote from: theUBS on September 23, 2008, 01:03:56 PM
The only times beer/alcohol seemed to help me was when I was at the bowling alley, or the pool hall. 

I believe that's called aiming fluid...

Quote from: bikejunkie223 on September 23, 2008, 02:03:59 PM

Quote from: theUBS on September 23, 2008, 01:03:56 PM
The only times beer/alcohol seemed to help me was when I was at the bowling alley, or the pool hall.

I believe that's called aiming fluid...

...I guess I shouldn't forget darts...  :laugh:

Odds are if you completely disregarded everyone's advice to get a different car all together and are still leaning toward a Honda then you likely didn't need to ask us this question.

well my original intention was to see if the greater world can pick my car... between those two.. but because i believe in freedom of opinion and choice, i had the other option.

I really dont want to buy a older car, i feel i've earned it to buy a new car.

I still dont kow if I should get an EX-L or Si.. though i like the EX-L because of the 34mpg over 29 hwy.

though its not a very 'fun' car compared to the Si.

Have you driven the EX-L yet? it's not pin your ears back fast like an Si, but it's pretty quick...

Quote from: bikejunkie223 on September 23, 2008, 09:19:02 PMit's not pin your ears back fast like an Si...

Have you driven the Si? :cookoo:

Okay so your mind is made up...go for the Honda...I still don't get the "other" thing when you weren't interested in anything else but I digress...just don't go deceiving yourself into thinking either civic is "fast".

^^^clearly you haven't driven one. It's not Corvette or Porsche fast, but for it's price range it's quicker than most, and it will actually go 'round corners :thumb:

I only drove a blue coupe and a blue sedan...but they were blue and thus don't count, I suppose.

Even for $23,998 it's not fast.  Across the street I could have left in a new fully loaded SRT4 (even though it's ugly as sin) for $24k OTD that'd walk the Si all day.  Heaven forbid I find a left-over stock WRX or a REAL SRT4 (the calibre is such garbage compared to the Neon's platform)...$18,000 when they debuted, can't imagine what they'd run if you could find grab hold of one of the few leftovers out there.

The Si handling was ok but not remarkable...but after they did what they did with the Integra Type R in the mid 90's they'll have a hard time reaching their own bar ever again with an econobox.  It's still nothing notable compared to a properly setup rear wheel drive sport-oriented automobile.  And again, go back even just one year or two, the options for FAR superior vehicles are literally falling from the skies.

I digress again, though...it's a matter of what you dig.  Honda's a great company and makes great products...that's why I've chosen to ride one (of course it's broken all the f%$king time so no example there, really).

or I could vote for other and say spend 30k and get a lotus elise base model.  You can get them down to 25k and they still get 30mpg.

Quote from: bombadillo on September 24, 2008, 07:44:58 AM
or I could vote for other and say spend 30k and get a lotus elise base model.  You can get them down to 25k and they still get 30mpg.

lol I wanted an elise.. but its not 30K..

dont you think I'd have bought that if it was..

Um, a base Elise has an MSRP of $46,270 and given it's relative rarity I doubt you are paying less than that. If you know where one is for $25k you should buy it immediately, even if you just want to resell it for profit.
http://www.lotuscars.com/elise_190.html

i'd take a lotus for 25k! is this a used car you're talking about or new?

So I was building a car on Honda's website and I noticed that they now have a "Suspension upgrade kit" for the EX-L..

only problem it lowers it by 1" but I'll have to see if thats the same drop with the Si.. but yeah.. hope that improves handling, and roll in turns.

Can't go wrong with a Honda car. I never in my wildest dreams thought I'd buy one. But bought two. As for me........I still have my old 2001 Jeep Cherokee with a 127K on it. It's going great too...........but what a rufffffff ass ride. Pulls the boat like a young bull though!
:)

I saw a yellow Elise that looked minty for sale at 32k the other day and with the new 'more luxorious, but just as fast' platform coming out soon I would expect Elise prices will drop as people get rid of them to upgrade.

Quote from: TheGoodGuy on September 24, 2008, 03:05:07 PM
So I was building a car on Honda's website and I noticed that they now have a "Suspension upgrade kit" for the EX-L..

only problem it lowers it by 1" but I'll have to see if thats the same drop with the Si.. but yeah.. hope that improves handling, and roll in turns.

It doesn't really change the ride quality much at all. I drove the Mugen Si when we had one at our store and it came from the factory with that setup and was marginally firmer. I personally would go with a set of lowering springs from H&R on the factory struts- that will give you the ride height and handling you are looking for for about $200 (parts) That's what I did on my 2004 Si (hatchback) and it rode perfect- nice and flat in corners, but didn't shoot your spine out the back of your head on bumps.