ok well i got the katana front end swap done and its so sweet. it feels so much beter but it does feel odd having such narrow handle bars down. (ill get build pics up tomarow) but new problem and you can go ahead and start laughing cause its almost funny for me too.
brakes
obviously they should be beter duel 4 pistons and twin rotors. well since i also got a Kat master cycl i had to beed all the fluid out so i when ahead and just squezed all the fluid out to replace all the brake fluid. i also forgot to tighten the brake lines at the calipers down (start of my problem i think) so i started bleading them with some nice Dot 5 fluid. but still felt funny then i found the leeking lose ftiings at this point the calipers are coated in fluid. so i tighten them and finish of bleeding now the brakes feel GREAT very firm......... but they don't stop.
my hand hurts from having to pull on the brake lever so hard yesterday. somthings up i did spray some brake cleaner on the rotors but that was about 20 hours after the fluid got on them they seemed to get alittle better the second day of riding not much but alittle. and the bike will stop pretty well but you REALLY have to pull on the lever
1. is there still Bfluid on them brakes?
2. does brake cleaner not lossen up silicon based fluid?
3. is it mainly that the brake pads of the 97 suck and the little fluid isn't helping
any other ideas?
I believe you mixed two completely incompatible brake fluids together.
Dot 3, 4, 5.1 are compatible because they're glycol based.
Dot 5 is silicone based and won't mix with the latter.
Double check the pad alignment in the calipers - if they are hung up -that can produce the problem you are having.
rotormay be clean; but how about the pads?
if you got ANY brake fluid on the pads, They wont work worth a (http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/sick/sick0019.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-love-smileys.php)
Mdow - you put 97 what on a 89-95 fork ??? How ? you running 96-97 legs too ?? if so, you're buying 89-95 triples from me, you do know those aren't gonna fit it
All parts have to be 89-95, random mix and match wont work ...
I just sent your triples out, but I need 89-95 triples back from you. Yes knuckles as well.
On a kat swap only 5 parts are needed.
legs, triples and stem, brakes m/c, calipers and discs, axle and handle tubes. AFAIK, they all have to be of the same design. 89-96 or 96-97 or 98-whatever ...
Ohm 97 calipers are single action dual piston, you have the disks properly inside the pads ? Are its slider pins nice and clean and lubed ?
Cool.
Buddha.
Legs 97 750
upper triples 89 600
stem year unknown but its GS500
Lower tripple year unknown but its katana
brake m/c 97 600
calipers 97 600
discs 97 750
axle 97 750
handle tubes 89 600
fork brace 94 GS
fender 94 GS
all these years bolt up just fine
Quote from: ATLRIDER on September 22, 2008, 06:57:29 AM
I believe you mixed two completely incompatible brake fluids together.
Dot 3, 4, 5.1 are compatible because they're glycol based.
Dot 5 is silicone based and won't mix with the latter.
i bleed it all out i ran about a quart of dot 5 threw it after draining all the dot 4 nothing was coming out other then blue for a long time and the lever is not spungy at all its super firm
Quote from: Jared on September 22, 2008, 08:13:27 AM
Double check the pad alignment in the calipers - if they are hung up -that can produce the problem you are having.
if i lift the front end up the wheel spins fine and i have checked all the pads will wiggle alittle but as soon as you touch the brakes none of them move so all the pistons are working
Quote from: littleblackjeep on September 22, 2008, 08:48:50 AM
if you got ANY brake fluid on the pads, They wont work worth a (http://img2.mysmiley.net/imgs/smile/sick/sick0019.gif) (http://www.mysmiley.net/free-love-smileys.php)
ya i know it will not but i know you can burn it off on car rotors cause i did on my car when i did a big brake kit up front and they didn't work great till i got them hot burned off the brake fluid and set up a contact layer on the rotors. i just didn't know if Dot 5 will burn off like dot 3 and 4 will
Quote from: Mdow on September 22, 2008, 10:08:47 AM
Legs 97 750
upper triples 89 600
stem year unknown but its GS500
Lower tripple year unknown but its katana
brake m/c 97 600
calipers 97 600
discs 97 750
axle 97 750
handle tubes 89 600
all these years bolt up just fine
OK that 96+ and 89-95 mix and match is what I believed I should do ... but I had a real hard time stuffing the wheel in, maybe cos the legs were loose and flopping about a bit instead of being firm in place on a bike.
Now - You had to face the insides of the legs where the wheel goes about a 1/16th ??? I thought it was a wee bit too small. May be mistaken though.
Oooo you have the 89-95 wheel I presume ? I'll also bet you have 89-95 lower triple. Cos only that will fit the 89-95 upper triple. The newer ones are wider ... 10-12mm wider.
Cool.
Buddha.
last i heard silicone is very resilient against heat. hence why it's used in brakes for higher boiling points etc
"If silicone is introduced into an older brake system, the silicone will latch unto the sludge generated by gradual component deterioration and create a gelatin like goop which will attract more crud and eventually plug up metering orifices or cause pistons to stick. If you have already changed to DOT 5, don't compound your initial mistake and change back. Silicone is very tenacious stuff and you will never get it all out of your system. Just change the fluid regularly. For those who race using silicone fluid, I recommend that you crack the bleed screws before each racing session to insure that there is no water in the calipers. "
http://www.xs11.com/tips/maintenance/maint1.shtml
it's no white paper, but it's an interesting read. maybe something related?
Oh Mdow - he does have a point. In switching to the silicone, you may have done the gooping thing.
I switch to 5 all the time, but I usually suck all the fluid out first, then put in 5 and bleed, and suck etc etc and get it all in 5.
In some cases I would conventionally bleed with 3 ride it a few weeks, and then suck it all out and replace with 5. You need to get the crud all displaced and out.
I also have chased acetone down the lines and sucked it out, dried it and then done silicone fluid.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on September 22, 2008, 10:29:28 AM
Quote from: Mdow on September 22, 2008, 10:08:47 AM
Legs 97 750
upper triples 89 600
stem year unknown but its GS500
Lower tripple year unknown but its katana
brake m/c 97 600
calipers 97 600
discs 97 750
axle 97 750
handle tubes 89 600
all these years bolt up just fine
OK that 96+ and 89-95 mix and match is what I believed I should do ... but I had a real hard time stuffing the wheel in, maybe cos the legs were loose and flopping about a bit instead of being firm in place on a bike.
Now - You had to face the insides of the legs where the wheel goes about a 1/16th ??? I thought it was a wee bit too small. May be mistaken though.
Oooo you have the 89-95 wheel I presume ? I'll also bet you have 89-95 lower triple. Cos only that will fit the 89-95 upper triple. The newer ones are wider ... 10-12mm wider.
Cool.
Buddha.
wheel is 94 GS
not to call you out on anything but i just slide my 89 lower tripple and my 97 lower tripple on a shock leg and they are the exact same width
only option is eather they are the same or the people parting out bikes were wrong on the years
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/Mdobroth/Picture080.jpg)
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/Mdobroth/Picture082.jpg)
its on my extra bandit 400 leg i was hopping to do a duel disk with a GS and bandit leg but the bandit is a 41 mm shock
OK Maybe I am looking at a 98 and later kat legs. BTW can I see the top part of the stem off the 97. And the caliper, I have a feeling I am looking at a 98+, cos mine looks just like the pics I have got from atlrider.
Cool.
Buddha.
can do headin out side to get some pics now for ya.
Thanks and also one of the lower - what will be to the rear of the bike ... under the caliper carriers.
Ronin is my favorite movie of all time. One unlikely cast and insanely cool movie.
Cool.
Buddha.
ok photobucket is not responding right now. so ill try again in an hour. what are you talking about the lower? lower part of the calipers or rear end of the bike?
ronin is a good movie but where did that come from haha
Lower part of the fork leg the area under the caliper carriers. Cos from the pics on ronayers, 89-95 and 96-97 had the same calipers, but were fitted on different legs. These legs just had the screw slot adjustment on top, and no drain bolt under the caliper carriers, but otherwise was similar to the 89-95.
So I been messing with 98+ legs and trying to stuff into 89-95 triples and using a GS type wheel ending up with some material to be milled off the legs on the bottom where the axle goes. Yea with stuff I picked up, anything is possible. Blind leading the blind over here.
Cool.
Buddha.
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/Mdobroth/Bike/Picture083.jpg)
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/Mdobroth/Kat%20Swap/Picture071.jpg)
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/Mdobroth/Kat%20Swap/Picture084.jpg)
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/Mdobroth/Kat%20Swap/Picture086.jpg)
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/Mdobroth/Kat%20Swap/Picture096.jpg)
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/Mdobroth/Kat%20Swap/Picture097.jpg)
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/Mdobroth/Kat%20Swap/Picture093.jpg)
Grreat ... thanks, I know I now got 98 + crap and not one of the bloody things fits right ... gotta do all 98+ and well screw it, I'll surface the thing 1/16 ...
Thanks much.
Cool.
Buddha.
i guess their is a chance they did half year stuff in 97
I doubt it, and I dont seem to find a 98 at all, the 97 may be carried into 98 and 99 up was different. Anyway Love the 89-95 and I guess 89-97 top triples.
I got these off bikes that had been wrecked or had blown transmissions or what not ... so no idea what is on them ... I didn;t buy sight unseen and ship it, I just bought good but mismatched and incomplete ... booya ... take that fleabay ... what, I would've been cheaper if I bought matched stuff on ebay ... really ... booo hoooo hooo ...
Cool.
Buddha.
OK so how did this pan out ?
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: Mdow on September 22, 2008, 04:36:20 PM
(http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p31/Mdobroth/Bike/Picture083.jpg)
In that first pic, the kat FE makes the thing look right even ... that front fender fits it so perfectly and the whole bike looks right ... no other way to describe it. That clip on and dash and everything just fits like it was made for it. And I am not discounting the possibility that some suzuki bean counter put the GS with skinny forks and 1 disc at the last minute to save a whopping $20. Like ... in 1988 summer they built the GS and they also redesigned the kat that same year, and they were fitting the kat's new and improved FE to the GS and other bikes ... much like the Kat and GS got the same wheel, and so many other parts ... when Mr bean counter interrupted and said to the CEO ... who obviously was not a rider ... say, we can make this bike with this skinna ass crap and 1 disk and it will save us, $1.30 ... Mr Ceo agreed, and the rest as they say ... was total crap.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on September 24, 2008, 11:51:41 AM
OK so how did this pan out ?
Cool.
Buddha.
they still suck
so ill just get new rotors and pads this winter i think and rebuild the calipers
Bwaaaa ... I'll take the bad rotors and calipers then ... :icon_mrgreen: cheap ...
Seriously, The ones I did literally will stoppie ... one of them in fact did literally by accident and shocked the skinny black dude who was riding it up and down my street ... f*(ker was doing 80 in a 25. And I never had to bleed any ... you're making the kat FE swap look bad, you got some thing wrong man ... you hit it too hard it will clean toss you over the damn bars.
Cool.
Buddha.
ya i know its way worse then my GS brakes were. i just need to do new pads and rotors i think im going to pull the pads and sand them up abit
Somthing is wrong, brake fluid on the brakes wont make them non existent. Clean with carb cleaner.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on September 24, 2008, 01:50:48 PM
Somthing is wrong, brake fluid on the brakes wont make them non existent. Clean with carb cleaner.
Cool.
Buddha.
they are exsistant i have been riding it all week. i just have to crush the lever to get it to stop.
you got a idea on somthing eles it could be? the lever is firm so i don't think air in the lines
tryed carb cleaner and tryed brake cleaner they make it worse till they start to burn of or evaporate then they just go back to how they were
ok well i think i might have fixed it. i went to rebleed them today. and found somthing i missed
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The second bleed screw on each caliper ........ 4 pots have a bleed screw on eather of the caliper 4 total i bleed one on each
If it has air it feel spongy, not like a rock and no brakes ... but if it works hey ... who cares.
Cool.
Buddha.
ya but i had a decent bit of Dot4 con out of them then the fluid turned blue so im hoping its a step in the right direction its raining now ill have to wait till another day to figure out how much it did
Niiice ... was the dot4 brown in color ... that = water and water can get things stuck ... even without getting rust ...
Cool.
Buddha.
yes brown but im going to pull them apart and rebuild calipers this winter also
Oh yea, we must rebuild ...
This is freaking america's favorite pastime ... heck its the main job ... 2 days after 4 million people are drowned by a 20 foot wall of ocean ... the first words out of their mouth is ... we will rebuild ... Moron's ... the ocean doesn't like you being there, and the ocean will always win ...
Now for you Mdow ... you know how many bikes I have had ... over 30 ...
You know how many calipers I have rebuilt ... 1 in the 89 I owned in the first 3 years of owning it ...
You know why ... I forgot to clean the pistons on the outside, and forgot to take the cap off the master cyl and pushed the pistons back in with a C clamp ... broke one C clamp, bought another one and went to town on it ... till I had a river of brake fluid in my garage ...
1 call to my friend I realised my mistake ...
OK so for the actual reason why rebuilding stuff at random does nothing more than waste your time and money ...
The seals hold in fluid.
The brake works off line pressure from the master cyl.
If you're getting squishy lever feel ... the master cyl isn't sending the full pressure it should send down the line. So a master cyl rebuild will be what you need here.
If your lever feel is great, and fluid is leaking form the caliper then caliper seals are not sealing. Then caliper rebuild is neccesary.
If lever feels like a rock, and the brakes are still bad ... but not leaking, rebuilding is doing squat. Cleaning, bleeding, getting the crap out etc etc etc ...
BTW If I remember you can split a caliper without disturbing the piston ... I did it to a VX rear brake one time ... same as GS rear, maybe same as the Dual opposed piston in the katana front ... GS fronts are different I know that. But splitting and cleaning will work far better than a rebuild ... in fact when you do rebuild, the fact that you split them and cleaned them is what will give you the better brakes.
You need a clean and refill and bleed ... maybe you need to get someone who knows what they're doing instead of randomly rebuilding them ...
Cool.
Buddha.
i know how to rebuild calipers its about 14 bucks to do them and its not hard and i can clean them and paint them.
its also the easyest way to get all the dot4 out. im going to rebuild them eather way
the pistons were sezed when i got them so im not 100% sure that the seals are holding all the fluid plus who knows what junk is in the calipers
You get all the dot 4 out by splitting it and pouring that crap out, and spraying it with cleaner and drying it.
Which will be the first step in the rebuild. So bingo ... you do that, and you can skip the rest for solving the problem.
Cool.
Buddha.
BTW you can do it today ... have enough DOT 5 right ... just spray cleaner, carb cleaner brakecleaner etc etc and open and toss the crap, tooth brush it all clean and you're good.
caliper rebuild can be done in winter ... yea :cookoo: ... winter.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: Mdow on September 25, 2008, 10:30:26 PM
yes brown but im going to pull them apart and rebuild calipers this winter also
yup winter is still the plan
Soooo ... you're planning to not use your brakes till the winter ...
I know, them brakes, they just slow you down anyway ... who needs em ...
Cool.
Buddha.
they still work i been riding its for a week and a half now. it will stop pretty good but you have to CRUSH the brake lever it makes my hands hurt its so hard but it works. but i havn't riden since i rebleed so we will see eather way its still ridable i just have to be carfull with it