Hey all,
I was having a hell of a time trying to start my '07 GS500F w/ 2.6k miles on it this morning. I got the bike about 4 months ago and absolutely love it, but it has been giving me some grief this morning. I've had a similar problem once before, but was able to start it up after a while. Here are some things I tried:
1. Of course, choke was fully on.
2. Tried priming the carbs
3. Tried push starting the bike (in a high gear)
4. Tried jumping the battery with my car
Here is a video so you can hear the symptom: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA0C_LI71BQ
It almost sounds as if the battery is low (i.e., starter isn't turning the engine), but trying to start with jumpers had the same effect.
Any ideas as to what could be the problem (and hopefully the solution???)?
Since it is stored outside (under a cover when rain comes), could the change in temperature cause condensation in the carbs? In other words, should I drain the carbs (using the screws at the bottom, circled in red here: http://faq.f650.com/FAQs/Photos%5CCarbnJetPhotos%5CMixScrewLocn.jpg) and then prime them?
I once went out of town for a weekend and forgot to cover my bike and it so happened to rain like crazy with a cold front. Mine started fine. Mines a 07' with 4600 miles. Did you accidentally leave the bike on "park"? and the battery ran out?
Quote from: Skeets on October 06, 2008, 12:48:19 PM
I once went out of town for a weekend and forgot to cover my bike and it so happened to rain like crazy with a cold front. Mine started fine. Mines a 07' with 4600 miles. Did you accidentally leave the bike on "park"? and the battery ran out?
I've only had mine for about 4 months now (got it late-model, new), so this concerns me for the upcoming winter (I'm in NJ). The bike was locked (i.e., a click away from park), so the battery should be fine. As I mentioned in the first post, I did try to jump it with my car battery to no avail. The sound is distressing though (as if a relay is trying to get the starter motor to turn but just can't get it going). The engine would turn, but after about 30 minutes of on-and-off again trying to start, the battery could have been a little drained..
Yeah, that sound is not good. My battery died recently, and basically the starter just sounded slower than normal, it didn't make any clicking sounds the way yours does... Perhaps your starter is no good... If you tried jumping it and still got the sound, that points to something like a relay or starter going bad.
Do you still have the warranty? if so WARRANTY IT. I still have mine even though it's a 2007 :)
Charge the battery, check the connections to the terminals and to the solenoid and to the starter...
Somewhere something's loose.
Dan
PS: Can you pop start it by rolling it and dumping the clutch?????
your battery is dead/weak
Take it out, charge it up, try it again.
Cold weather and not riding it often tends to allow the battery charge to deteriorate pretty quick.. Do you have a battery tender (trickle charger)? If not, you should get one.
Some ppl take their batterys out and leave it trickle charged during cold weather, whenever they arent riding their bikes.
definately sounds like a dead or weak battery possibly dead cell from jumping it with your car you can check the cells in the battery by using a multimeter putting the negative lead on the negative post remove all the fill caps and dip the positive lead into each hole you may need to use a screw driver to reach the fluid in the battery and touch the pos lead to it. Each cell should read 2.2 or 2.3 volts or something close to it. so it should basically read a little higher with each additional cell. ie. 2.4.6.8.10.12 or something close to it if it reads something like 2.4.6.6.8.10 then its definately a bad cell. I would try a new battery and do a twice over on all the battery connections both on the battery and the frame, and starter side of the cables. A loose connection can do the same thing and wreak havok on your charging system. And If your trying to start it on full choke try dropping the choke to a 1/4 or 1/2. I also changed to the iridium plugs for $18 and find it helped a little.
Put that battery on a slow charge over night or longer -- Battery Tender is even better. It may not take a charge if the plates are warped or coated too much, but give it try. Even if the charger says it is charged, teh battery may be toast (enough volts, but inadequate current). Check your battery connections and starter connections (grounds too). Caution RE using a big car battery to jolt through these tiny MC batteries, hydrogen and acid explosion is NO FUN. More harmonous result if stored out of weather.
prs
clicking is typically the starter relay... try jumping the posts with a screw driver and starting the bike. like an older car
Thanks for all of the replies! A couple of things that happened over the course of the last couple of days:
1. Later that afternoon (after my class), I came home with the intention of draining the carb bowls (as mentioned here: http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=43795.msg491302#msg491302), but the bike started on the first attempt. :cookoo:
2. Yesterday afternoon I took the bike out and again, no problems at all.
The bike started fine 2 days before "the problem" showed up and fine ever since, but this is the second time I haven't been able to start the bike after a cooler evening (~45-50 F), so I'm afraid to go on any longer excursions for fear of being stranded...
Quote from: Skeets
Do you still have the warranty? if so WARRANTY IT. I still have mine even though it's a 2007 :)
I was thinking of taking the bike to my local shop, showing them the video, and having them take care of it (I still have 6 months left on the warranty), but I was hoping to find & fix the problem myself.
Quote from: Skeets
PS: Can you pop start it by rolling it and dumping the clutch?Huh?
I tried, but could not start it. I was used to pop starting my old car (Manual '91 Honda Civic Station Wagon), but was not successful with the bike. I tried to follow the recommendations of posts on the forum (i.e., use higher gears, etc.) but to no avail.
Quote from: yosh69
Cold weather and not riding it often tends to allow the battery charge to deteriorate pretty quick.. Do you have a battery tender (trickle charger)? If not, you should get one.
Some ppl take their batterys out and leave it trickle charged during cold weather, whenever they arent riding their bikes.
The weather is getting cooler, but I have been riding every other day (at least) for a minimum of 20 miles/ride, so I was surprised that the battery may have been degraded that much in such a short period of time. I don't have a battery tender (yet), but I was hoping to put it off until I could not take out the bike for a week or so between rides.
Quote from: Chanse
definately sounds like a dead or weak battery possibly dead cell from jumping it with your car ... And If your trying to start it on full choke try dropping the choke to a 1/4 or 1/2. I also changed to the iridium plugs for $18 and find it helped a little.
I'll try checking the cells tomorrow (I'm going to be away this evening) and hopefully get to the bottom of it.. I should have put my multimeter on the terminals before trying to jump it, but desperation made me try the (seemingly) logical steps to diagnose the problem.
Quote from: Pigeonroost
Caution RE using a big car battery to jolt through these tiny MC batteries, hydrogen and acid explosion is NO FUN.
Thanks for the warning, I should have checked before trying.... Theoretically, however, shouldn't the bike have started anyway while it was being jumped? (If it was a low/dead battery issue)
one more thing that needs to be mentioned. How many miles do you ride to work? (one way only)
If it's only few miles each way you may drain the battery more starting the bike, than you charge the battery riding the bike.
than after some period of time your battery will become undercharged. Just take your bike for a longer spin or use battery charger/tender.
cheers
Kamil
Quote from: Pigeonroost
Caution RE using a big car battery to jolt through these tiny MC batteries, hydrogen and acid explosion is NO FUN.
Thanks for the warning, I should have checked before trying.... Theoretically, however, shouldn't the bike have started anyway while it was being jumped? (If it was a low/dead battery issue)
IF the jumpers are good and if you hooked the + to the battery post and the - to the frame, then the good battery should have by passed the disabled battery and started the engine. If you hooked the jumpers to each respective post of the suspect battery, then all bets are off. Since it all of a sudden worked, a bad ground is suspect as well as a weak battery.
prs
Quote from: Pigeonroost on October 08, 2008, 02:28:29 PM
Since it all of a sudden worked, a bad ground is suspect as well as a weak battery.
prs
I also suspect bad ground (or other connection). Check those wires :thumb:
Had the same problem with my 06. most of the time it would start strong then randomly crap out on my and make that exact same noise. Battery failed a load test so switched it out with a new one and problem went away. Also, get your self a battery tender for those cold nights or if its sitting for a few days.
I HAD THE EXACT SAME PROBLEM> it took me 2 weeks to figure out. It isnt the battery, or plugs, or carbs.
On the left of your handle bars, underneith the hi beam low beam switch, there are two small wires wihich vertically hook 'up' onto the handlebar. ( at least 5oof model).
I had the same clicking, yet was getting clear ingnition on a spark test. I finally found this, literally plugged it in, and she ran like new. these plactis clips are a bad design in my opinion becasue each time i wreck i find myself checking those yet again.
hope this helps....
Quote from: 500F-3crashes2date on October 08, 2008, 06:53:28 PMthese plactis clips are a bad design in my opinion becasue each time i wreck i find myself checking those yet again.
:o
Maybe the "bad design" isn't the real problem here... Have you checked to see if there's a loose nut behind the handlebars?
That was a low voltage problem. Probably a weak battery. Do you have a short commute to work? Buy a trickle charger and charge your battery once a week or so.
Never jump start a bike! You can fry your regulator/rectifier that way. Always charge your battery.
Best of luck to you. If it continues, look for a short in the wiring, or loose connections (I assume the battery terminals were firmly attached?)
Agreed.....I would say the problem is down to your riding style.....NOT the design :icon_lol:
Quote from: 5thAve on October 11, 2008, 07:55:46 AM
Never jump start a bike! You can fry your regulator/rectifier that way
:laugh:
Quote from: Esteban on October 06, 2008, 10:36:28 AM
Hey all,
I was having a hell of a time trying to start my '07 GS500F w/ 2.6k miles on it this morning. I got the bike about 4 months ago and absolutely love it, but it has been giving me some grief this morning. I've had a similar problem once before, but was able to start it up after a while. Here are some things I tried:
1. Of course, choke was fully on.
2. Tried priming the carbs
3. Tried push starting the bike (in a high gear)
4. Tried jumping the battery with my car
Here is a video so you can hear the symptom: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PA0C_LI71BQ
It almost sounds as if the battery is low (i.e., starter isn't turning the engine), but trying to start with jumpers had the same effect.
Any ideas as to what could be the problem (and hopefully the solution???)?
Whats interesting is that on each occasion the starter is begining to operate before the solenoid drops out and starts clicking......with this in mind I wouldnt rule out a problem with the starter, possibly the winding is breaking down to ground......But lets start with the easy stuff first.......get the battery properly load tested and the specific gravity of the electrolyte checked at an auto-electrical shop and make sure its fully charged, check all the connections between the battery/solenoid/starter and make sure they are clean and tight particularly the grounds. Take the starter cover off, the motor out and check the motor is free to turn by hand. Make sure its fixings including the cable connection are all clean and tight when you put it back in.
If this doesnt cure the problem you can only then start to suspect an issue with the motor and/or solenoid.
Ok, updates and another video. I haven't been able to ride for over a week because the starter solenoid is no longer clicking and it almost sounds as though the starter motor is free spinning (?). Here is a video with the new sound: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMeDuIclWpU
Since shooting that video, I've been checking the battery voltage with a multimeter and finally bought a battery tender from my local dealer. In the video, the battery is pretty low, but it is making the exact same sound (with more vigor) with a fully charged battery. I'm hesitant to take of the starter cover and work with the internals because I bought the bike new about 3 months ago, so I'll probably have to get it towed to the shop (since I don't know anyone with a pick-up and tie-downs). Any recommendations about what to do next?? I'd love to get into the nitty-gritty and (hopefully) get things working, but since the bike is still almost new, I want the dealer to take some responsibility and fix it on their time & dime.
Bike is nearly new, has warranty - agreed...let the stealer fix it.
If anything serious, they pay for it and sort it.
If not, they'll still sort it and its highly unlikely it'll cost you much if anything....
Goodluck :thumb:
Hey any news on your bike? I decided to register because your issue sounds exactly like mine ... although you didn't run out of gas beforehand.
So the other day my bike ran out of gas (not completely, there was very little left in the tank), and had trouble starting. I couldn't get it started after trying a few times, and then I noticed the gas was so low.
I went and got a couple of gallons, put em in the tank. Next I try to start up and it will crank at most once, then click. I think the battery is low in both of our cases.
Quote from: theonewolf on October 30, 2008, 04:36:09 PM
Hey any news on your bike? I decided to register because your issue sounds exactly like mine ... although you didn't run out of gas beforehand.
So the other day my bike ran out of gas (not completely, there was very little left in the tank), and had trouble starting. I couldn't get it started after trying a few times, and then I noticed the gas was so low.
I went and got a couple of gallons, put em in the tank. Next I try to start up and it will crank at most once, then click. I think the battery is low in both of our cases.
yup! definitely the battery is drained. You tried to start the bike too many times and you drained the little battery.
Starter motor takes a lot of juice out of battery so you'll need to give your battery a good charge and try again.
You may also want to turn your petcock to prime for a little while (1 minute or so) to let the gasoline get to the carbs before firing her up :thumb:
cheers
Kamil
Yeah, I went across the street to an auto shop and they charged my battery for a few hours, $3 :)
Starts right up now. Only issue is that I left PRI on overnight...but I just posted a new thread asking about that http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=45095.msg505302#msg505302 (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=45095.msg505302#msg505302). So I haven't ridden yet :(
cool, you're going again.
the only worry about PRIME is the slight possibly chance that one of your cylinders would fill or partially fill with fuel. if that were to happen, and you tried to start the bike, you'd likely bend or break a valve. the same thing could happen if your petcock failed, but your bike is fairly new.
if you smelled gas (heavy heavy gas smell) when you walked over to your bike, and noticed it on PRIME, taking the time to remove the spark plugs with the tool kit (underseat) and turning the rear wheel (while on centerstand) will void the cylinders of any fuel. don't use the starter, as you might end up with a flamethrower that way ;)
new battery or charged battery, you should be fine.
i started leaving my bike under it's cover at night with a 60W shop light on the headers for the cooler nights. it helps a good deal since the temperature of the oil is kept up around 65F instead of the 35F outside temperature. i can literarlly thumb the starter for around 3 seconds and the bike starts. just something to think about for cooler weather.
make sure you're not turning your key passed the LOCK setting, as that will leave the taillight (parking light) on, and drain the battery quickly.
your bike doesn't charge well until you're above 4-5000 rpms, so keep that in mind on your commute :)
nice bike, love the blue
Quote from: theonewolf on October 30, 2008, 04:36:09 PM
Hey any news on your bike? I decided to register because your issue sounds exactly like mine ... although you didn't run out of gas beforehand.
The clicking is apparently a battery related issue, but the latest noise I am getting is just constant spinning. I hooked up my multimeter to check the voltage drop when trying to start the engine and wasn't too happy:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cBFeBb6uaIo
I actually had the bike towed to the stealer today and the mechanics all agreed that it sounded like something was stuck in the starter. Hopefully it is all covered by the warranty. I hate to have this happen to a practically brand new bike..
Esteban,
Please provide an update - it may help someone else.
Quote from: sledge on October 11, 2008, 08:01:04 AM
Quote from: 5thAve on October 11, 2008, 07:55:46 AM
Never jump start a bike! You can fry your regulator/rectifier that way
:laugh:
if done improperly. especially DONT run vehicle. but jumping off of vehicle battery while not running woirks jsut fine. some argue against this, BUT the vehicle battery has more than enough balls to start teh lil gs. if it dont, either 1 vehicle battery is dead/dying or there are more problems with gs
Quote from: ohgood
i started leaving my bike under it's cover at night with a 60W shop light on the headers for the cooler nights. it helps a good deal since the temperature of the oil is kept up around 65F instead of the 35F outside temperature. i can literarlly thumb the starter for around 3 seconds and the bike starts. just something to think about for cooler weather.
This sounds like a good idea... I have to store my bike outside under an all-weather cover during the riding season (until it gets too cold to ride), so this might help once it starts running again. *sigh*
Quote from: Berowra on November 05, 2008, 03:21:25 AM
Esteban,
Please provide an update - it may help someone else.
I'll keep the thread alive as long as the problem persists (i.e., until it's fixed). ;)
It sounds to me like a starter problem. I've had the same problem with cars before. Try firmly tapping on the starter with a hammer or wrench but not hard enough to dent the motor. The motor isn't fried or anything, it's just not engaging. If the bike is already at the stealer, lets hope those idiots fix it soon.
Quote from: ke7syv on November 05, 2008, 01:34:40 PM
It sounds to me like a starter problem. I've had the same problem with cars before. Try firmly tapping on the starter with a hammer or wrench but not hard enough to dent the motor. The motor isn't fried or anything, it's just not engaging. If the bike is already at the stealer, lets hope those idiots fix it soon.
I called the stealer today and it turns out that one of the bolts in the starter motor was loosened and ultimately came out. The guy didn't give me much info over the phone, but I'll get more info when I go over to pick it up (hopefully Saturday). From what he said, it sounded as though the clutch in the starter that gets the motor turning was no longer fastened and now spun free. I'm hoping that the clicking starter problems I was having before (at the beginning of the thread) were due to the starter motor stalling and being unable to turn because the loose bolt was catching. If the bolt happened to vibrate back into place I could start it, but then, 2 weeks ago, I am hypothesizing that it just completely came out. Again, damn, on a 4 month old bike with 3k miles??? Argh.
i bought an '06 late model new off the showroom floor 6 months ago. found that i'm having the same problem on those cold michigan mornings. appearantly the dealer i bought the bike from prepped the battery when they got the bike, so it essentially sat in the dealership for over 2 years. i have since replaced with a new battery and have had no more problems. make surew you find out when you buy a new bike the date they prepped the battery and if the date is not tomorrow, make them swap it out before you take delivery.