A sensible question, cost of a car was recently assessed by a company called CNW Marketing Research Inc who calculated the construction to scrap or 'dust to dust' cost of a large number of vehicles in terms of total resources? Among its findings was that the 'Hummer' SUV was 40% more efficient then a Toyota Prius. In all cases 4x4's incur less environmental cost then the green cars that the eco- mentals and Government champion.
Figures taken from the report;
The Top 10 most energy efficient vehicles over their lifetime:
1. Scion xB ($0.48 per mile)
2. Ford Escort (0.57 per mile)
3. Jeep Wrangler ($0.60 per mile)
4. Chevrolet Tracker ($0.69 per mile)
5. Toyota Echo ($0.70 per mile)
6. Saturn Ion ($0.71 per mile)
7. Hyundai Elantra ($0.72 per mile)
8. Dodge Neon ($0.73 per mile)
9. Toyota Corolla ($0.73 per mile)
10. Scion xA ($0.74 per mile)
Hybrid energy efficiency over their lifetime:
1. Honda Insight ($2.94 per mile)
2. Ford Escape Hybrid ($3.18 per mile)
3. Honda Civic Hybrid ($3.24 per mile)
4. Toyota Prius ($3.25 per mile)
5. Honda Accord Hybrid ($3.30 per mile)
Somewhere I heard that a new car uses as much energy to make as it takes to run your suv for like 50,000 miles or 5 years or somehting. So I google it and ...
Anyway still looking for that elusive stat, but if the cradle to grave cost isn't working in favor of a hybrid ... I think its entirely impractical to even do hybrids ...
Cool.
Buddha.
I wonder where my Nissan POS is. It does run 40 clicks to the gal and cost me a princely 800 bucks.
It has to be better than the corolla, Corollas manage 35 mpg or less.
Cool.
Buddha.
My Neon is getting 37 mpg :thumb: With ram air :laugh:
Yea yea rub it in.
Ram air ... how ?
Cool.
Buddha.
Now if I told you then I would have to kill you. :laugh:
Hood scoop + big a** hole saw + piping + K&N and you get the idea. :thumb:
I got 4+ more mpg from it. :thumb:
Quote from: The Buddha on October 09, 2008, 10:50:34 AM
I wonder where my Nissan POS is. It does run 40 clicks to the gal and cost me a princely 800 bucks.
It has to be better than the corolla, Corollas manage 35 mpg or less.
Cool.
Buddha.
My buddy's Chevy Prizm 5-speed version of the Corolla get's over 40 on the highway.
Sorry ... I cant cut a hole in my hood. I think That's what is holding the front of the car to the main driver compartment.
Those holes people put on the sides and put those round holes ... I cant do that either, without side panels the car will fold up like a beer can.
I tried installing a radio, and the weight of that radio made the car squish to the ground.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: The Buddha on October 09, 2008, 10:42:54 AM
A sensible question, cost of a car was recently assessed by a company called CNW Marketing Research Inc who calculated the construction to scrap or 'dust to dust' cost of a large number of vehicles in terms of total resources? Among its findings was that the 'Hummer' SUV was 40% more efficient then a Toyota Prius. In all cases 4x4's incur less environmental cost then the green cars that the eco- mentals and Government champion.
Figures taken from the report;
The Top 10 most energy efficient vehicles over their lifetime:
1. Scion xB ($0.48 per mile)
2. Ford Escort (0.57 per mile)
3. Jeep Wrangler ($0.60 per mile)
4. Chevrolet Tracker ($0.69 per mile)
5. Toyota Echo ($0.70 per mile)
6. Saturn Ion ($0.71 per mile)
7. Hyundai Elantra ($0.72 per mile)
8. Dodge Neon ($0.73 per mile)
9. Toyota Corolla ($0.73 per mile)
10. Scion xA ($0.74 per mile)
Hybrid energy efficiency over their lifetime:
1. Honda Insight ($2.94 per mile)
2. Ford Escape Hybrid ($3.18 per mile)
3. Honda Civic Hybrid ($3.24 per mile)
4. Toyota Prius ($3.25 per mile)
5. Honda Accord Hybrid ($3.30 per mile)
Somewhere I heard that a new car uses as much energy to make as it takes to run your suv for like 50,000 miles or 5 years or somehting. So I google it and ...
Anyway still looking for that elusive stat, but if the cradle to grave cost isn't working in favor of a hybrid ... I think its entirely impractical to even do hybrids ...
Cool.
Buddha.
uhm, ok.
let's look at it this way:
running a SUV 100,000 miles will PAY FOR TWO PRIUS to be produced.
now lets think further:
those TWO prius you just bought will run 4-5 times as efficiently as current SUV's (hybrids included) and if we track THEIR lives fuel usage, you could again produce another FOUR PRIUS with the energy savings.
OR
you can drive a 'clunker' (this is an auto industry term refering to anything that isn't "new" or "cool" like your old nissan, my old toyotas, my old honda) and consider the cost of energy to manufacture the vehicle already spent, and save the planet by driving a 'clunker' forever.
now here's something interesting to think about:
cost just in fuel to operate a non-hybrid, SUV, that averages 12 mpg for 100,000 miles: $33,333.33
cost just in fuel to operate a 'clunker' (non-hybrid) 4 cylinder crap box averaging 30 mpg for 100,000 miles: $
13333.33 (fixed it, thanks!)
how long does it take you to drive 100,000 miles ? 3 years ? 5 ? 10 ? whatever, in that amount of time, you just put THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLARS in your pocket for doing, that's right, nothing.
if you have 30 years till retirement, and the 'clunker' you can put an extra $99,999 in your nest egg. or have a really nice vacation every year.
just something to think about. don't let the likes of J.D.Powers lead you to believe fuel efficient cars aren't a good idea.
Quote from: The Buddha on October 09, 2008, 12:46:58 PM
Sorry ... I cant cut a hole in my hood. I think That's what is holding the front of the car to the main driver compartment.
Those holes people put on the sides and put those round holes ... I cant do that either, without side panels the car will fold up like a beer can.
I tried installing a radio, and the weight of that radio made the car squish to the ground.
Cool.
Buddha.
LOL -either you're drinking at work, or i'm developing a sense of humor.
Quote from: ohgood on October 09, 2008, 12:53:27 PM
LOL -either you're drinking at work, or i'm developing a sense of humor.
Why not both ...
I have a lot more jokes about my car ...
Its not got power steering, power brakes, power windows or door locks ... why ... it doesn't have the power to operate any of those and move at the same time.
I put a couple of magnets in my front bumper. Then I get close to a truck and let off the gas, the car does not slow down.
Its a stick shift. It does not have the power to shift, that's why.
It makes less power than the GS500 and gets better gas mileage.
Anyway ... more.
Cool.
Buddha.
i get no less than 30-32mpg in town in my 2009 corrolla. i'll be taking a short (2hours each way) trip in it the first of next week, ill let you know how the mileage goes with just highway driving. :thumb:
93 Nissan sentra, 40 mpg.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: jserio on October 09, 2008, 01:21:45 PM
i get no less than 30-32mpg in town in my 2009 corrolla. i'll be taking a short (2hours each way) trip in it the first of next week, ill let you know how the mileage goes with just highway driving. :thumb:
How many miles? You won't even max out your efficiency until it's completely broken in. I'd take me a Corolla!
she's got 3800 on her right now. :icon_mrgreen: :thumb: i'm loving this car! and the sales people at the place we bought it were really classy too. great folks. i'd recomend both the dealer and the car i got to anybody looking for a new car. :cheers:
Quote from: The Buddha on October 09, 2008, 12:46:58 PM
Those holes people put on the sides and put those round holes ... I cant do that either, without side panels the car will fold up like a beer can.
Buddha.
99% of them are just stick on so they don't work :mad:
I'd do that stick on, but my car will pull to that side.
Cool.
buddha.
Quote from: ohgood on October 09, 2008, 12:52:15 PM
now here's something interesting to think about:
cost just in fuel to operate a non-hybrid, SUV, that averages 12 mpg for 100,000 miles: $33,333.33
cost just in fuel to operate a 'clunker' (non-hybrid) 4 cylinder crap box averaging 30 mpg for 100,000 miles: $3333.33
how long does it take you to drive 100,000 miles ? 3 years ? 5 ? 10 ? whatever, in that amount of time, you just put THIRTY THOUSAND DOLLARS in your pocket for doing, that's right, nothing.
if you have 30 years till retirement, and the 'clunker' you can put an extra $99,999 in your nest egg. or have a really nice vacation every year.
just something to think about. don't let the likes of J.D.Powers lead you to believe fuel efficient cars aren't a good idea.
I think there's a little problem with your math
the "4 cylinder crap box averaging 30 mpg for 100,000 miles: $3333.33"
looks like you were figuring $4 gas. Should be $13,333.33 to run 100k miles
So you save $20k instead of $30K... still a good chunk of change
Don't even get me started on the strip mining and environmental damage done to mine the ore for the NiMH batteries. The good liberals are promoting an even more expensive and horrible environmental impact item than oil drilling. There was something else about the battery hybrids but I can't remeber what it was, Ohhh yeah battery replacements, somewhere in the neighborhood of 3k to 4k. I think it was something about the quantities of copper and neodynium for motor magnets that the hybrids were consuming was a major prohibitive item.
I'm all for cheap energy and reducing our dependancy on fossil fuels, I hate to say this but the French are to be applauded over 75% of their electricity is generated by nuclear reactors.
BUT those on the left wont allow any mining, drilling, cept in areas containing no oil. or nuclear ( notice i didnt mention any certain groups by name so no need for flames)
Here is the issue with Hybrids to me using the one I have the most experience with (Honda Civic Hybrid):
Purchase Price:
-Civic Hybrid $23,550
-Civic EX sedan $$20,000 (w/ automatic like the hybrid)
Fuel Economy:
-Civic Hybrid 42mpg combined city/highway
-Civic Sedan 30mpg combined
So if the average person drives 15,000 miles a year in the Hybrid they would spend $1250 on gas at $3.50 a gallon
-In the EX Civic they would spend $1750
So you save $500 a year on gas- but you payed an additional $3550 for the Hybrid so you have to drive it 7 years to break even on cost, and frankly the Hybrid doesn't drive as nice as the regular Civic. Handling is the same but power available for passing and such isn't and the Hybrid lacks many features the Ex has like a sunroof and a fold-down rear seat back.
Basically Hybrids are one of the leading causes of smug by ignorant dumbasses that care more about having that green status symbol in the driveway than actual economy. The only real place the Hybrid offers any advantage at all is in emmissions, and modern gasoline engines are so clean now anyway it probably takes 20 modern Civics to equal the emissions of 1 gas guzzler from the 70's or 80's.
Hybrids are a total ripoff.
Also:
(http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8582/n5820786787524279982899um1.jpg) (http://imageshack.us)
My last point is this: I had a 1989 Civic Wagon with 264k on the odometer that got 35mpg all day long. WTF happened? Now despite all the modern improvements to fuel injection and computer programming a car that has more horsepower than the 88-91 Civic (the Fit) gets less mpg than a similarly sized car that was less aerodynamic from 1989. I'll tell you what happened- Weight. They had to add airbags, and gobs of emissions components, and crumple zones and now the cars are about 500-700lbs heavier, and while cleaner and safer they are twice as expensive as they were in 1989 5 times as complex, and get worse gas mileage. :cookoo:
I had a 1988 Plymouth colt 4 door sedan. It would get 33-35 in town and got as high as 44+ on the hiway.
That was with a carb also. Great little car. Wish I could still get one.
BeSafe
PJ
:icon_rolleyes: :icon_rolleyes:and dont forget global warming. accrding to joe biden its ALL mans fault :icon_rolleyes: :icon_rolleyes: :laugh: :laugh:
The old 240d gets me about 40mpg in town with no maintenance (aside from oil changes every 10k) and it's solid f%$king steel which to me spells 'f%$k you SUV, hit me!!!!, I'll walk away and your car will crumple into a ball of GMCrap.'
Quote from: spc on October 09, 2008, 11:45:06 PM
The old 240d gets me about 40mpg in town with no maintenance (aside from oil changes every 10k) and it's solid f%$king steel which to me spells 'f%$k you SUV, hit me!!!!, I'll walk away and your car will crumple into a ball of GMCrap.'
or volvo crap or mecedes crap or ( anyone else who makes an SUV) :laugh:
How will we be able to pull our boats, trailers, and campers with these hybrids? Will there be an RV hybrid?
Oh I forgot. "The common citizens" will have no need for such luxuries in the future. All we will need to be concerned with
is "getting to work" and working "for the state".
"Work will make you free"-- The Neo-Hitler Regime aka The New World Order
People don't need to get to work anymore- they are rapidly becoming unemployed. I would also say for every person that buys a big truck or SUV to (tow stuff) maybe 1 in 50 is used for that- mostly the only thing they haul is 2 kids to Target.
Well, I'm 1 in the 50 I guess. "Down here" I see a lot of trucks and SUVs (I have a cherokee) actually used for "pulling and hauling", but there certainly a lot of the "soccer moms" about too.
Quote from: bikejunkie223 on October 10, 2008, 06:18:51 AM
People don't need to get to work anymore- they are rapidly becoming unemployed. I would also say for every person that buys a big truck or SUV to (tow stuff) maybe 1 in 50 is used for that- mostly the only thing they haul is 2 kids to Target.
Yea .. yea ... but those kids are so fat ... each needs the whole back 1/2 of the SUV ... In fact someone was asking me the other day (cos I modify stuff y'know) if I can add a 6 foot extension to the back of their ex-urban ... you know, the V12 extremely large suburban ... its a compact 36 feet long. She said she's got extra equity and is willing to pay whaever it takes. I also suggested she needed a turbocharger to pull with the 2 kids ... she said she had 2 turbochargers already. Then she went down the highway running 20 clicks talking on her cell phone whihe each of the kids was watching the DVD big screen. I had to go buy metal ... lot of it.
Cool.
Buddha.