The local servo near my work (a caltex) has stopped selling normal unleaded and now only sells E10 (10% ethanol) and their high octane version. I have not been game to put the E10 in and have been filling up with the more expensive high octane. I understand that Suzuki does not recommend the use of ethanol laced fuels in any of its products. I can only assume that this will become more common. Has anyone been using E10? Has there been any problems?
cheers :cheers:
ive usued avgas, and leaded racing fuel, but it was not for good economy. lol it took a slight hit. tbh i dont see a problem wiht it in the gs
I refuse to use it.
never had a problem with it- premium often has ethanol in it too- ethanol is an easy way to boost octane when they blend the gasoline. Also, all these fuel additives you see on the market that alledgedly "clean" your fuel system or raise the octane- pretty much all of them are alcohol. Only problem with ethanol is that it gets slightly lower fuel economy because there are less btu's of energy per liter than gasoline. Also, Aviation gas is fantastic for lawnmowers and power equipment like that- not that they need the octane, but because it won't varnish up the carb over the winter so it would work for winterizing a GS too I bet.
I try to avoid E10 based on it's lower economy but I also avoid the high octane products. So far I've only used standard unleaded in the GS but when I had a ZZR250 I tried running the higher octane fuels and found the bike ran worse. I found out that it's normal for small carb motors to run poorly on many of these 'premium' products. The problem is that most of them are higher density fuels as well, and the smaller carbies have problems atomising the fuel.
The only reason to run premium in anything is if the engine is specifically designed for it due to compression or ignition advance causing pinging with lower octane fuel. Higher octane fuels are more resistant to auto-ignition under pressure than lower ones and that's it- it is a wonder of marketing how the fuel companies have convinced most of the general public premium fuel (90+ octane) is "better" than 89- it is just more resistant to detonation.
Quote from: bikejunkie223 on November 11, 2008, 07:09:25 PM
The only reason to run premium in anything is if the engine is specifically designed for it due to compression or ignition advance causing pinging with lower octane fuel. Higher octane fuels are more resistant to auto-ignition under pressure than lower ones and that's it- it is a wonder of marketing how the fuel companies have convinced most of the general public premium fuel (90+ octane) is "better" than 89- it is just more resistant to detonation.
It's not quite as simple as that. The octane rating is only part of a fuel's characteristics. Most of the premium fuels also have additives in the fuel, known as detergents, which is similar to adding injector cleaner to standard petrol. If a motor is cleaner then it will produce more power and be more efficient than one that isn't. This is the reason some people choose to use a premium fuel every 5 fills or so.
The other difference which is the one that causes the problem for small carby motors is that they also tend to be higher density. This higher density allows for either improved economy, increased power or a combination of the two. My experience with my first car (a hyundai excel) showed me that range increased by over 100km per tank by using a high density premium fuel. Power difference was minor but measurably better in that a hill which i had to go down to 4th gear to maintain 80km/h i could now maintain in 5th. The increased range meant that it actually worked out cheaper for me to use the premium fuel.
So my choice for premium fuel had nothing to do with the octane rating, i knew there was not going to be any benifit in that regard for the ZZR but I was expecting the other benifits of the premium fuel to be the same as for the car. Unfortunately not being able to atomise the fuel properly meant less power, worse economy, a rougher ride and probably reducing engine life, so the complete opposite of the case with the car.
Since using the the premium caltex product I imagined that ther was a slight increase in economy but that may be due to being more careful in the wet or because my rear was needing replacement. I now have a new rear tyre and the economy seems normal. It seems that anyone using e10 hasn't had major problems maybe I should give it a go... Although at about 10 or 20c a litre more it probably won't make much diffference to the hip pocket. Waddyareckon? Is there anyone in Oz using this stuff in thier GS?
Thanks for the replies :cheers:
Allthat is really available around here is 10% ethanol, and the GS runs it just fine- I've never had a problem with it in any of my vehicles. The only time I ever see a car with a problem that goes back to bad gas (I'm a master tech at a Honda dealer, cars) is when they got fuel at some small crappy gas station that probably doesn't get new fuel very often and it has water in it.
The question is are our fuel lines compatible with E10
Also, Ethanol releases oxygen when burnt, so it may lean out your engine more.
yes the fuel lines are fine with e10. Ethanol produces oxygen as it's burnt- so it's a byproduct of combustion and will not affect the mixture at all- the carb jets still draw the same amount of fuel regardless of what that fuel is.
That oxygen that is released would be burnt too wouldnt it?
fuel + oxygen -> carbon dioxide + water
that is assuming that both reactants are in adequate supply (i.e correct stoichiometric ratios) particularly oxygen. If there is more fuel than oxygen you won't get complete combustion form carbon monoxide and soot. So extra oxygen may help with cleaner burning particularly at low revs and idle. I think I'll put a tank of E10 and see how it goes...
:cheers:
cheers
Right, the ethanol makes the fuel "oxygenated" and promotes more complete burning- albeit with slightly less fuel economy.
I was told when I bought by GSXR1000 by the dealer (it also says in the hand book) that the bike is not compatible with E10
Maybe its to do with the higher compression in the GSXR, but I thought it intreresting.
Quote from: Myotis on November 13, 2008, 02:51:46 AM
fuel + oxygen -> carbon dioxide + water
that is assuming that both reactants are in adequate supply (i.e correct stoichiometric ratios) particularly oxygen. If there is more fuel than oxygen you won't get complete combustion form carbon monoxide and soot. So extra oxygen may help with cleaner burning particularly at low revs and idle. I think I'll put a tank of E10 and see how it goes...
:cheers:
cheers
My sneakily asian teacher Mrs. Vu just taught us this in chemistry... All combustion reactions equal C02+H20
I've used E10 fairly often in the GS, and in other vehicles. Never any problems in the GS. (nor in the other cars). There is a slight, barely noticeable drop in fuel economy. Maybe 3%. You shouldn't worry.
Quote from: loki7714 on December 23, 2008, 07:27:40 PM
Quote from: Myotis on November 13, 2008, 02:51:46 AM
fuel + oxygen -> carbon dioxide + water
that is assuming that both reactants are in adequate supply (i.e correct stoichiometric ratios) particularly oxygen. If there is more fuel than oxygen you won't get complete combustion form carbon monoxide and soot. So extra oxygen may help with cleaner burning particularly at low revs and idle. I think I'll put a tank of E10 and see how it goes...
:cheers:
cheers
My sneakily asian teacher Mrs. Vu just taught us this in chemistry... All combustion reactions equal C02+H20
If there is perfect combustion, which there never is :thumb:
Quote from: galahs on December 24, 2008, 03:13:12 AM
Quote from: loki7714 on December 23, 2008, 07:27:40 PM
Quote from: Myotis on November 13, 2008, 02:51:46 AM
fuel + oxygen -> carbon dioxide + water
that is assuming that both reactants are in adequate supply (i.e correct stoichiometric ratios) particularly oxygen. If there is more fuel than oxygen you won't get complete combustion form carbon monoxide and soot. So extra oxygen may help with cleaner burning particularly at low revs and idle. I think I'll put a tank of E10 and see how it goes...
:cheers:
cheers
My sneakily asian teacher Mrs. Vu just taught us this in chemistry... All combustion reactions equal C02+H20
If there is perfect combustion, which there never is :thumb:
Yeah that's where balancing the equation comes in...
+1 for combustion (and other explosions) :) :2guns:
:woohoo: Merry Christmas :woohoo: