WOW, WHAT A WAKE UP!
Dear God:
Why didn't you save the school children at...
Bath, Michigan 1927
Houston, TX 1959
Moses Lake, Washington 2/2/96
Bethel, Alaska 2/19/97
Pearl, Mississippi 10/1/97
West Paducah, Kentucky 12/1/97
Stamp, Arkansas 12/15/97
Jonesboro, Arkansas 3/24/98
Edinboro, Pennsylvania 4/24/98
Fayetteville, Tennessee 5/19/98
Springfield, Oregon 5/21/98
Richmond, Virginia 6/15/98
Littleton, Colorado 4/20/99
Taber, Alberta, Canada 5/28/99
Conyers, Georgia 5/20/99
Deming, New Mexico 11/19/99
Fort Gibson, Oklahoma 12/6/99
Santee, California 3/5/01
El Cajon, California 3/22/01 and
Blacksburg, Virginia 4/16/07?
Sincerely,
Concerned Student
-----------------------------------------------------
Reply:
Dear Concerned Student:
I am not allowed in schools.
Sincerely,
God
----------------------------------------------------------
How did this get started?...
-----------------
Let's see,
I think it started when Madeline Murray O'Hare complained
she didn't want any prayer in our schools.
And we said, OK..
------------------
Then,
someone said you better not read the Bible in school,
the Bible that says
"thou shalt not kill,
thou shalt not steal,
and love your neighbors as yourself,"
And we said, OK...
-----------------
Dr. Benjamin Spock said
we shouldn't spank our children
when they misbehaved
because their little personalities
would be warped and we might damage their self-esteem.
And we said,
an expert should know what he's talking about
so we won't spank them anymore..
------------------
Then someone said
teachers and principals better not
discipline our children when they misbehave.
And the school administrators said
no faculty member in this school
better touch a student when they misbehave
because we don't want any bad publicity,
and we surely don't want to be sued.
And we accepted their reasoning...
------------------
Then someone said,
let's let our daughters have abortions if they want,
and they won't even have to tell their parents.
And we said, that's a grand idea...
------------------
Then some wise school board member said,
since boys will be boys
and they're going to do it anyway,
let's give our sons all the condoms they want,
so they can have all the fun they desire,
and we won't have to tell their parents they got them at school.
And we said, that's another great idea...
------------------
Then some of our top elected officials said
it doesn't matter what we do in private as long as we do our jobs.
And we said,
it doesn't matter what anybody,
including the President,
does in private as long as we have jobs and the economy is good....
------------------
And someone else took that appreciation a step further
and published pictures of nude children
and then stepped further still by
making them available on the Internet.
And we said, everyone's entitled to free speech....
------------------
And the entertainment industry said,
let's make TV shows and movies that promote
profanity, violence and illicit sex...
And let's record music that encourages
rape, drugs, murder, suicide, and satanic themes...
And we said,
it's just entertainment
and it has no adverse effect
and nobody takes it seriously anyway,
so go right ahead.
------------------
Now we're asking ourselves
why our children have no conscience,
why they don't know right from wrong,
and why it doesn't bother them to
kill strangers, classmates or even themselves.
------------------
Undoubtedly,
if we thought about it long and hard enough,
we could figure it out.
I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...
"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"
------------------
Pass it on
if you think it has merit
If not then just discard it...
but if you discard this thought process,
then don't you dare sit back and complain about
what bad shape this country is in!
In God We Trust
Alot of truth in that sadly.
Sorry man but religion and state should be separate period
oh give me a break
I'm glad my son goes to a small midwestern school.
I signed a permission form at school that gives them permission to administer corporal punishment.
Yep, we still spank em when they need it around here.
BeSafe
PJ
P.S. My sons school also says the pledge to the flag and observes a moment of silence every morning before class.
Be safe
i heard someone once say... "as long as there is tests and pop-quizzes, there will still be prayer in school" :laugh: :laugh:
This is mostly ridiculous, but with some truth in there..
i usually delete these kinds of religious / political emails myself. they're mostly re-spun yarns about things we already knew.
i think blaming the schools for poor parenting is a real sick cop out. the schools CANNOT raise children. they can teach them to study, and assess children, but the amount of correction needed for a flawed family life is just plain not possible.
now, go blaming bullying, stress, or whatever. that's bs too. the stress and bullying disappears when ALL the parents to their freaking job.
period.
OK NOW...
How about, dear God,
why didnt you save my mommy and her co workers in the World Trade Center? Last I checked he was allowed in there ??? How about Why didnt you save my daddy in bosnia? or Iraq? If are are sad enough to believe that "God" chooese who lives or dies you need help...
If you are waiting for god to save you I feel sorry for ya. If I push you in front of a bus you think God will stop it? you think God made me do it? NO! I DID! Humans choose who lives and dies. :icon_twisted:
Quote from: scottpA_GS on November 19, 2008, 06:44:41 PM
OK NOW...
How about, dear God,
why didnt you save my mommy and her co workers in the World Trade Center? Last I checked he was allowed in there ??? How about Why didnt you save my daddy in bosnia? or Iraq? If are are sad enough to believe that "God" chooese who lives or dies you need help...
If you are waiting for god to save you I feel sorry for ya. If I push you in front of a bus you think God will stop it? you think God made me do it? NO! I DID! Humans choose who lives and dies. :icon_twisted:
Logic and reason has NO PLACE in a discussion like this. Where do you get off injecting rational thought into a right-wing diatribe? Come on, dude! :cheers: :bowdown:
and with your "logic" and "reason" i'm sure you will say that nothing in this email has merit? ;)
Quote from: jserio on November 19, 2008, 08:00:50 PM
and with your "logic" and "reason" i'm sure you will say that nothing in this email has merit? ;)
+1
Quote from: jserio on November 19, 2008, 08:00:50 PM
and with your "logic" and "reason" i'm sure you will say that nothing in this email has merit? ;)
You got it! :thumb: It's a load of :bs:
everyone is entitled to an opinion i suppose. that's what makes this country great. :cheers:
Quote from: trumpetguy on November 19, 2008, 08:34:03 PM
Quote from: jserio on November 19, 2008, 08:00:50 PM
and with your "logic" and "reason" i'm sure you will say that nothing in this email has merit? ;)
You got it! :thumb: It's a load of :bs:
you forgot to add, " in my opinion of course" :thumb:
No, actually, it's not just my opinion. It is factually untrue. Not opinion, just fact.
I could just as easily (and just as falsely) point to integration as the cause of all societal ills since 1960. It would be untrue. None of the things that the email points out are CAUSED by not allowing forced prayer in schools. Period.
If you want forced prayer in schools, go to Iran or any of the other countries where they practice such nonsense.
Quote from: trumpetguy on November 19, 2008, 09:38:33 PM
No, actually, it's not just my opinion. It is factually untrue. Not opinion, just fact.
I could just as easily (and just as falsely) point to integration as the cause of all societal ills since 1960. It would be untrue. None of the things that the email points out are CAUSED by not allowing forced prayer in schools. Period.
If you want forced prayer in schools, go to Iran or any of the other countries where they practice such nonsense.
Well, i figured you might be against religion or disliked those or distrusted those who believed. thats where the opinion remark came from. me i am religios, and also believe in evolution. , on paper both are "theories" or in their current state, both require a bit of faith. to make it ones belief. what i dislike, is one can have a wiccan club at a school. but cannot have a christian club. neithers views are forced upon otehrs, without hte others wanting to know. there are muslim clubs as well, but , errr, anyhoo. i get your point tg :cheers:
But you don't get my point. My beliefs about whether religion is real or not are NOT the issue. They are private, in fact. The issue is whether we should attempt to brainwash children by forcing prayer on them in schools (and blaming the alleged decline of society on a correct decision of the Supreme Court to deny said brainwashing).
Kids can pray ANYTIME they want to in every public school in the USA. What they cannot do is compel others to listen to their prayer.
Quote from: trumpetguy on November 19, 2008, 10:03:10 PM
But you don't get my point. My beliefs about whether religion is real or not are NOT the issue. They are private, in fact. The issue is whether we should attempt to brainwash children by forcing prayer on them in schools (and blaming the alleged decline of society on a correct decision of the Supreme Court to deny said brainwashing).
Kids can pray ANYTIME they want to in every public school in the USA. What they cannot do is compel others to listen to their prayer.
fair enough tg, yes i missed your point/s please forgive. however in some situations, children are NOT permitted to pray in schools. even if done so away from the rest. and the term brainwashing is a bit strong i think. no one is forcing them . they would be foolish to do so. considering, htey "brainwash candidate, would have almost the entire legal system on their side lol. religion i do not consider brainwashing. there are a few other things which i would consider as such though :cheers:
tg ill agree with your points of view. but it seems this section of the aforementioned email. makes sense. youve been around a few years, as have i, and most of this board
Undoubtedly,
if we thought about it long and hard enough,
we could figure it out.
I'm sure it has a great deal to do with...
"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW," i say this because , if you ( or anyone) raised a child to be ignorant, or violent. or you acted that way in front of them, and they turned out as such, would you say the last line makes a bit of sense?, or would you blame someone else? if i may ask O0
Quote from: trumpetguy on November 19, 2008, 10:03:10 PM
But you don't get my point...The issue is whether we should attempt to brainwash children by forcing prayer on them in schools...
Sorry, not condoning one side or the other, but in the spirit of legitimate debate, when were kids
ever forced to pray and subsequently "brainwashed" in
public schools?
Just found your comment interesting, any facts to back it up, or is it just the typical knee-jerk reaction to something that appears to promote religious morals?
ScottpA...good point. It is my belief that God doesn't 'save' us or 'harm' us. He gives us strength to deal with issues that society creates, and He promises us salvation if we live according to His word. We were never promised happiness on Earth. Once we were cast out of Eden, due to the choices of Adam and Eve, we were condemned to suffer on earth.
I think that the grain of truth in this thread is that young people are influenced by the actions of their role-models. If we are not allowed to discipline wrong doing, discourage promiscuity, hug, correct hateful speach and behavior, etc. then there should be no questioning why teen pregnancies and abortions are up, why sexually transmitted diseases are up, why we have too many single mothers raising children, why we still have the KKK, why kids kill each other without thought, etc. Notice that nothing I mentioned is actually religious. All I mentioned are common morals. The problem is, outside of organized religion, who is actively promoting good moral conduct?
Quote from: oramac on November 20, 2008, 07:03:22 AM
Sorry, not condoning one side or the other, but in the spirit of legitimate debate, when were kids ever forced to pray and subsequently "brainwashed" in public schools?
Just found your comment interesting, any facts to back it up, or is it just the typical knee-jerk reaction to something that appears to promote religious morals?
I was born in 1957. In my entire public school career, we heard a daily (Christian) prayer over the PA system. It was not a non-denominational prayer. It was specifically ("in Jesus' name we pray...") a Christian prayer. We weren't forced to pray individually, but we were forced to listen. It was intended to keep us (or convert us) Christian. Your question even refers to the intent to "promote religious morals." This is precisely what the so-called religious right wants to re-introduce -- mandatory prayer.
It does NOT belong in public schools. Morals can and do exist outside of religion. To suggest that only through a religion can people be moral is ridiculous (and can lead easily to Taliban-style rule when taken to the extreme). One does not have to believe in a deity (or deities) to exhibit moral behavior. One's motives in behaving morally don't matter -- only the behavior.
Quote from: oramac on November 20, 2008, 07:03:22 AM
I think that the grain of truth in this thread is that young people are influenced by the actions of their role-models. If we are not allowed to discipline wrong doing, discourage promiscuity, hug, correct hateful speach and behavior, etc. then there should be no questioning why teen pregnancies and abortions are up, why sexually transmitted diseases are up, why we have too many single mothers raising children, why we still have the KKK, why kids kill each other without thought, etc. Notice that nothing I mentioned is actually religious. All I mentioned are common morals. The problem is, outside of organized religion, who is actively promoting good moral conduct?
Public schools DO promote morals. Have you been in one lately? Read the signs on the walls and listen to the teachers. I cannot speak for every public school but most promote responsibility, tolerance, sensitivity, etc. I am involved in education (I teach future teachers) and I am in schools every week. I see it!
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on November 19, 2008, 10:37:08 PM
"WE REAP WHAT WE SOW,"
Yama, I'll agree with that.
That's
precisely why I am opposed to torture, the death penalty, violence as a way of "solving" problems, discrimination of GLBT people, discrimination of other kinds, etc. We DO reap what we sow. We have a more violent and less thoughtful society because we as a country have become more violent and less thoughtful.
The answer to that problem is NOT in trying to force a religion on schoolchildren. It is in becoming less violent, more tolerant, and more thoughtful.
Quote from: trumpetguy on November 20, 2008, 09:00:33 AM
We weren't forced to pray individually, but we were forced to listen.
and we are forced to listen to what others and others ideas of who and what God is and what not..
I think it called freedom of speach............right :dunno_white:
I am not trying to attack you. I am just pointing out that we are all forced to listen to others.
Quote from: cafeboy on November 20, 2008, 09:12:29 AM
Quote from: trumpetguy on November 20, 2008, 09:00:33 AM
We weren't forced to pray individually, but we were forced to listen.
and we are forced to listen to what others and others ideas of who and what God is and what not..
I think it called freedom of speach............right :dunno_white:
I am not trying to attack you. I am just pointing out that we are all forced to listen to others.
Give me an example of when you are FORCED to sit and listen to someone else's idea of who God is. VERY different from freedom of speech. Freedom of speech is when schoolkids organize "Prayer at the Pole" and other such events which happen in public schools across the country every day. Optional events -- not mandatory.
Schoolchildren have no choice if prayer is mandatory. They are a captive audience. It is unconstitutional to mandate prayer in a state-funded school. That's my point.
We are forced every day to hear it on TV, Radio, and in the work place or on the street. We have to hear it or try to not listen but I'm sure you no that you can't just tune it out. I am not saying they need to mandate prayer in schools. All I am saying is you say you where forced to listen? Well why did you not just tune it out? My son in in public school and prays over his lunch and other kids have to hear it. Is he braking the law or is it freedom of speech? As you would say they or "captive" so what should happen to him?
Again not trying to start a fight. I just don't think your view is right :dunno_white:
Quote from: cafeboy on November 20, 2008, 09:55:35 AM
We are forced every day to hear it on TV, Radio, and in the work place or on the street. We have to hear it or try to not listen but I'm sure you no that you can't just tune it out. I am not saying they need to mandate prayer in schools. All I am saying is you say you where forced to listen? Well why did you not just tune it out? My son in in public school and prays over his lunch and other kids have to hear it. Is he braking the law or is it freedom of speech? As you would say they or "captive" so what should happen to him?
Again not trying to start a fight. I just don't think your view is right :dunno_white:
You are not forced to hear anything on TV. Your TV has a volume control and an on-off switch. You CHOOSE to watch TV. Unless someone with authority over you forces you to sit and watch/listen, you make a choice whether or not to listen. I don't choose to listen to or watch the plastic evangelists on TV -- I am not in any way forced to hear their viewpoint, and neither are you.
Your son can pray over his lunch without breaking the law. The school may not have a mandated blessing read by teacher, principal or students before lunch. There is a LARGE difference between those two things. I'm not sure why your son would need to pray ALOUD before lunch, but if your religion says he needs to then go for it. It's a private matter unless others are forced to participate.
Quote from: trumpetguy on November 20, 2008, 12:03:01 PM
It's a private matter unless others are forced to participate.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^ My point. So don't listen. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
The american system is really geared to isolating people and just avoiding real problems as opposed to solving them. We are pathologically polite ... to the point that people that are requireing help are taught to keep it inside till ... well they get a gun and kill people.
God has nothing to do with it, in fact people that invoke the name of god the most, have to be watched with a keen eye, they are likely to be the biggest of crooks. Live with your conscience and you dont need to talk of god at every turn. Show me what a true believer you are with the way you behave not with what you say.
Cool.
Buddha.
The buddha is really to be watched 2 X ... you never know what he'd do next.
Quote from: The Buddha on November 20, 2008, 12:35:20 PM
The buddha is really to be watched 2 X ... you never know what he'd do next.
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: The Buddha on November 20, 2008, 12:35:20 PM
God has nothing to do with it, in fact people that invoke the name of god the most, have to be watched with a keen eye, they are likely to be the biggest of crooks. Live with your conscience and you dont need to talk of god at every turn. Show me what a true believer you are with the way you behave not with what you say.
Dont make your judjment of God based on the hypocrites.... and there are plenty of them.
TG i take it your not a religious person, you can pm if you dont want it in public. im just tryin to understand all i communicate wiht here. on the twin( to make myself a more effective listener/commentator here
QuoteDont make your judjment of God based on the hypocrites.... and there are plenty of them.
this is a good point... there are a lot of nutjobs out there...
can I get a holla for the Westboro Baptists anyone? crackheads.
it's a good point that should be used throughout life tho... don't make up your mind unless you've checked it out. Obviously there are some exceptions... you don't need to experience a gunshot wound to the head to know its not cool, or spend 11 years on the street hooked on meth to know to stay away from that stuff...
But for most things in life, you just gotta check it out for yourself. Don't let others make up your mind for you ;)
For all the "preaching" I see about religion there has to be a lot less violence of any kind.
The whole system is geared towards "what can we do to keep someone from acting out now" and once the person is not in danger of acting out, they ignore them till the next version comes up ...
Schools and everywhere else this is really well practiced that is it almost second nature to them. No one seems to care till a columbine or a Virgina Tech happens, and then there is shock, how did this happen, how can we make this not happen again ...
We cannot "make this not happen again" if we are all focussed on "this". We need to reach far below and get people out of the danger zone for good, not just cover their symptoms up.
I can also tell you, no one is interested in the cure, for every 1 columbine killer, there is a million others smouldering under the surface and that means big $$ for counsellors, pharmaceutical companies, insurance companies etc etc etc. The system makes $$$, and lots of it for people in the system. The goal is to keep it going.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on November 20, 2008, 09:59:00 PM
TG i take it your not a religious person, you can pm if you dont want it in public. im just tryin to understand all i communicate wiht here. on the twin( to make myself a more effective listener/commentator here
I'm not going to disclose my religion privately or publicly. I
will say that I believe that most denominations adulterate the intent and meaning of religion altogether. There is very often (and as a musician I play in a lot of churches) a complete disconnect between what the scripture says and what the people do.
Quote from: trumpetguy on November 21, 2008, 06:51:23 PM
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on November 20, 2008, 09:59:00 PM
TG i take it your not a religious person, you can pm if you dont want it in public. im just tryin to understand all i communicate wiht here. on the twin( to make myself a more effective listener/commentator here
I'm not going to disclose my religion privately or publicly. I will say that I believe that most denominations adulterate the intent and meaning of religion altogether. There is very often (and as a musician I play in a lot of churches) a complete disconnect between what the scripture says and what the people do.
ill be damned, youve got a [point, err several there. specially the last part., seeing as though you wont disclose, ill respect that, and not ask anymore. i just ask, that you respect my views, and ill respect yours. deal?
+ 1 on what you said about there being a disconnect between what some churches do and the intent of what religion is supposed to do.
The problem, ( strictly in my opinion) is that it's not about a religion but about a relationship.
I can be religious about going to church and religious about keeping all of the rules, But without a real relationship with God, it's all a waste of time.
BeSafe
pj
Quote from: PuddleJumper on November 22, 2008, 06:24:08 AM
without a real relationship with God, it's all a waste of time.
+1
So true
Quote from: PuddleJumper on November 22, 2008, 06:24:08 AM
+ 1 on what you said about there being a disconnect between what some churches do and the intent of what religion is supposed to do.
The problem, ( strictly in my opinion) is that it's not about a religion but about a relationship.
I can be religious about going to church and religious about keeping all of the rules, But without a real relationship with God, it's all a waste of time.
BeSafe
pj
+ 2 trillion. ( my opinion of course)
I go to a church that has gossip, faces and all sorts of crap that should not be their but that has nothing to do with religion I know people who are great christian's they are in the word everyday have their quit time once or twice a day and do their best to show gods light through them, they dont force anything unless asked they dont pray out loud they just bow their head and close their eyes. as christians we are not supposed to boast our faith by praying out loud and things like that our relationship between our god is between us and him. our job as chrisitans are to spread the word build relationships with non beleavers and show them the light. we are to meet them on their level and show them we are not above them. I have friends that a budist and we talk religion all the time. bottom line is school is for learning nothing else people can pray at luch or read their bible and form a bible study with others but they dont need to point attention to their selves.
+1,000,000
Youdaman, mach1! :bowdown:
MACH you summed it all up , very nicely written sir. very nicely writen. now its weird, its this post, and one written by TG that i agree wiht 110%. and that has never happened :laugh: :laugh:
Quote from: trumpetguy on November 20, 2008, 09:00:33 AM
Public schools DO promote morals. Have you been in one lately? Read the signs on the walls and listen to the teachers. I cannot speak for every public school but most promote responsibility, tolerance, sensitivity, etc. I am involved in education (I teach future teachers) and I am in schools every week. I see it!
Yes, I've been in one. I
am a teacher in one Indiana's largest public high schools (a member of the Metropolitan Interscholastic Conference). I know exactly how morals are promoted by teachers, because I am one of them. I too teach future teachers, and I am a certified mentor teacher for novice educators. I also know that the legally required pledge of allegiance and moment of silence that starts each day is optional for students and faculty. And, I know that every teacher that I know that promotes good moral values is a person of faith, though our religions vary. The kids generally don't know our faith because there is a separation of church and state. That is fine. But the fact remains that the good morals taught in school, more often than not, are taught because of the faith of teachers.
As a matter of fact, it is because I teach that I make my statements about morals. I see the validation of the statements I've made based on my interaction with students over the past 10 years, knowing their personalities, and knowing the backgrounds from which they've developed.
i went to a public school... i remember morals being taught. Not as much in highschool, but in grade school, sure. In highschool my experiences with teachers were they were just content keeping kids from being troublemakers rather than influencing them positively. Many kids (druggies boozers bullies, or kids who just had a tough time with social pressures) recieved very little to no positive influencing from teachers Of the teachers, I saw as a role model, they were religious. Most religions focus on treating each other with respect, being full of integrity, and raising up healthy responsible kids. Its no wonder these teachers are the most influencial.
Grade school, on the other hand, was all about growing kids up to be part of a functioning society and to encourage their gifts... but as soon as HS comes around... it felt like there was nothing.
justa little side note...
I don't get why religious people opt to send their kids to religious schools. I undersstand in most cases they want there kids to live and breathe their beliefs, but its not teaching them to be believe and live in the real world.
the thing i don't get about going to religious schools is your huddled around your kind no one to save no real way to test your faith. as a Christian I'm not supposed to be stuck in a group full of Christians. in that group who live are you saving? I think a non believer would much rather have a one on one than a group of nuts shoving stuff in his/her face. sorry for the rant I'm just tired of people and churches giving my religion a bad name.
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on November 22, 2008, 03:39:28 AMi just ask, that you respect my views, and ill respect yours. deal?
Yama, I'm at a convention in Seattle so my read/reply time has been limited.
I absolutely respect your views, and I hope you don't think I have disrespected them. I'm often blunt, but I hope not disrespectful.
Quote from: trumpetguy on November 24, 2008, 10:08:21 PM
Quote from: yamahonkawazuki on November 22, 2008, 03:39:28 AMi just ask, that you respect my views, and ill respect yours. deal?
Yama, I'm at a convention in Seattle so my read/reply time has been limited.
I absolutely respect your views, and I hope you don't think I have disrespected them. I'm often blunt, but I hope not disrespectful.
Oh not at all man, blunt perhaps, but hey im a smart ass so were all good :laugh: :laugh: