i got some disturbing news today at work. "as a result of the current global economic crisis, we are decreasing our production and evaluating staffing needs. also, all plants and offices will close for an additional 2 days at the end of the year. these will be paid to employees as vacation days." of course they said if we wanted we could opt to NOT take vacation days but we still have to sit at home for those 2 days. okay, i'm sure some of you are like, dude, what's bad about 2 vacation days? nothing really, except that i was trying to save some of them for emergencies. this cuts my emergency days down a bit, no biggie really. what bothers me is the statement, "evaluating staffing requirements." last year we got a memo that said that. i suppose that's a nice way of saying, "shorty some of you poor bastards will have no job". i barely squeeked by last lay-off and didn't get nabbed. had i been at my job a couple weeks less, i would have been. i have no idea what the criteria will be this time around. the economy is in much worse shape than it was this time last year. and of course they really won't say much else until they know for sure. (can't hurt production by pissing people off ya know) from a business standpoint, i can understand that a company must do what it can to survive the bad times. i also understand that if they lay-off it doesn't mean it's permanent, there's a chance i'd get called back. and i'd get un-employment. that's where my problem lies. i don't know what i'd make on unemployment but i'd be willing to bet it won't be exactly what i make now. i'm looking at things in my budget i can trim. allready going to cancel my gym membership. the internet is next if it comes down to it. then the only thing left really will be cable. my wife doesn't work, she's a stay at home mom. she hasn't needed to work because i make enough money. this really blows. if i loose my job, there's a great chance i'd loose my house and my car as well. not to mention health insurance for my wife and 3 little girls. someone point me in the direction of the sorry bastard who f%$ked the economy so badly? i wanna junk punch them. how the f%$k is a father suppose to look his kids in the eyes and tell them he lost his job? (i know, it hasn't happened yet but still...... my mind is racing...) :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: just stop and think, next time you hear of someone falling on hard times, it may not be "just because they spend more than they make". it could very well be that they just don't have a job anymore. think of how many other stories like mine you'll hear in a few months when/if GM and the other Big Three go under and have to lay off millions of workers. then look around at your family, and remember what really matters. :cheers:
Quote from: jserio on November 20, 2008, 01:59:14 PM
just stop and think, next time you hear of someone falling on hard times, it may not be "just because they spend more than they make". it could very well be that they just don't have a job anymore. think of how many other stories like mine you'll hear in a few months when/if GM and the other Big Three go under and have to lay off millions of workers. then look around at your family, and remember what really matters. :cheers:
Well said and good luck jserio
Part of the problem with being a male is that life centers around work. Females lives' center around family, and this makes losing a job much tougher on a male. Not saying there aren't women that support their families, there are plenty.
You may lose a job, I've lost several to machine shops closing. It's not the end, but the beginning. New things to learn, new people to meet, new places to explore. It's a change that persists through life, and I feel sorry for people that continue in the same job until retirement. They have missed so many opportunities to expand their scope of knowledge and friendships.
Losing a job (layoffs/closures) is something you have no control over. Do your job, do it well, and accept the changes as they come. Take it easy on mama, she's worrying worse than you. THe girls will be fine. They just want daddy to be daddy.
As far as dropping the gym membership, ok, fine. Find another form of exercise. Hot muscles mean cool tempers. Been there, done it. Endorphines (post work-out) are a good good thing.
Keep the internet, downgrade if you think it will help, but keep plugged in. Job opportunities are out there, but being online is a big plus for finding businesses, appointments, entertainment, whatever. Sure, kill off cable, it's a brain sag anyway.
Good to you, and i'll be happy to crotch punch whoever that one person is that screwed our world economy right along with you. :)
Quote from: jserio on November 20, 2008, 01:59:14 PM
just stop and think, next time you hear of someone falling on hard times, it may not be "just because they spend more than they make". it could very well be that they just don't have a job anymore. think of how many other stories like mine you'll hear in a few months when/if GM and the other Big Three go under and have to lay off millions of workers. then look around at your family, and remember what really matters. :cheers:
these are unprecedented times. Blame? there's plenty of points to blame. Consider yourself lucky to still have a job. Your wife will surely need to go back to work as well. Family is primary, and we all have to do what we must to keep our families moving.
I have my own business and its very (VERY) slow for us now. I've had to lay off one of my 2 staff recently and it was the hardest thing I have had to do...my wife has to go back to work too. I feel your pain. Good luck.
and i had to close mine. so yeah its a Buddha Loves You :mad:
jserio, I'll debate all you want on many political topics, but I feel for you big time right now. My stepson was moved to about half-time employment (at least he has a job) but his wife doesn't work -- she cares for their two kids, 1 and 2 1/2. They are very good at living on a budget.
This economic depression (yes, I believe it is a full-blown depression) scares the hell out of me. My job is secure, and I have no debt except for a mortgage which will be paid off in 6 years, but my kids are in danger. This is scary.
You'd best learn to live well within your means. This will mean no eating out, no extras, no cable, etc. until things get better. It will mean accepting help from others (church, family, social agencies, etc) and being creative and buying things secondhand. But you will survive!
Hang in there, man.
Quote from: trumpetguy on November 21, 2008, 06:57:34 PM
jserio, I'll debate all you want on many political topics, but I feel for you big time right now. My stepson was moved to about half-time employment (at least he has a job) but his wife doesn't work -- she cares for their two kids, 1 and 2 1/2. They are very good at living on a budget.
This economic depression (yes, I believe it is a full-blown depression) scares the hell out of me. My job is secure, and I have no debt except for a mortgage which will be paid off in 6 years, but my kids are in danger. This is scary.
You'd best learn to live well within your means. This will mean no eating out, no extras, no cable, etc. until things get better. It will mean accepting help from others (church, family, social agencies, etc) and being creative and buying things secondhand. But you will survive!
Hang in there, man.
well said, and sage advice sir :bowdown: :bowdown:
Were having the same problem at work, Thomson fly have pulled out of the airport (our main airline) they have cut 18 fire men jobs, 90% of the ground handlings staff. Our department will be next (air traffic) thankfully theres a shortage of air traffic controllers currently so it shouldnt be the end of the world trying to find a new job but it will take time.
My dads an IT director, worked for IBM for 25 years, then worked for Sun, Photocorp, Capita, made redundant at the end of year pretty much with them. Now the family is really in the shaZam!, hes made over 300 job applications and only got about 5 interviews, mostly because people keep pulling the jobs due to this economic crisis. Hes tried applying for jobs half of his normal pay packet and they tell him hes over qualified. Its crazy stuff. Mum works as a practice nurse (so not alot of money in that either). Im currently loaning a portion of my wage and have my savings as back up to tide them over until he can get another job.
In times like this you have to do everything, and do it now. You can see the fork in the road coming up, does your job continue or do you get made redundant. While its not the end of your job yet you need to sort out the wife getting back into work, and get a plan sorted for if you do lose your job. I know its a huge upheaval but too many people just coast along thinking they will sort it out if it does happen. You don't want your wife to go back to work if she doesnt have to but atleast if she gets a job now and earns some extra cash she can always quit if they secure your job.
The bad part about a serious economic downturn is the downward momentum of many folks doesn't stop when the crisis is deemed officially over. The '81 recession affected me for the better part of a decade. I could probably weather the storm but the fates of my two sons and their families are a huge worry to me. I've been advising them for some time now not to spend money for anything except when absolutely necessary. Hang on to your hat...we're in for a rough ride.
Having not lived through any sort of depression I'm a little nervous what to expect... a lot of questions in my head after reading your posts... how will Canada be effected? I'm a f/t student with a wife and 2 kids (7 & 3) living on my wife's income and student loans... how hard will it be to pay those off when I'm done?
Luckily I've got my self in a debt free (except student loans) environment... I'm renting my place in part of a government assisted program, I own my car, my bike, my guitars, etc. No narley bills either but all this depression talk is unnerving...
Anyways, thanks for sharing your wealth of experience here... I hope your experience can help us 'kids' thru it. :thumb:
no new news from the "management" yet as to the status of our jobs. i'm sure they'll give us a week or two's notice. as of now it's just sit and wait. so with that in mind, i'm still taking my trip to see my old man in kansas. would it be more wise to save that money "in case"? maybe, but family is first. i haven't seen my old man in 8 years. i've always felt a life lived in fear isn't a life lived. whatever happens eh? take the good with the bad, roll with the punches baby. can't keep a good man down. :thumb: :cheers:
our country and all of use are in for some hard time...however as in the past i am sure we can get through it. we are ameriCAN and yes we can !!!
In 1975 my family had just come back from 4 years in Guatemala C.A.
Ford was in office, with Carter to take over soon. The economy was getting ready to tank.
Unemployment eventually approached 20 % and I remember people getting house loans at 21% interest.
Yeah, those were interesting times. We lived on Rice, Beans and cornbread for several years.
We will be OK. Just have to learn to live on less.
My Grandfather always told me that it wasn't how much money you had coming in, It was how little you had going out that counted.
Take care of your pennies and the dollars will take care of themselves.
Right now, I can come up with several things I can cut out of my life that I really don't need to survive.
Cable TV 60.00
cable internet 60.00
cell phone 45.00
total 165.00
If I dig a bit more I can come up with more stuff.
Anyway, We just have to live smarter now till it blows over.
BeSafe
PJ
In a way ... government intervention is really going to help the young, the rich and financially secure at the expense of the weak, older and marginal workers. If they let things run their course and not intervene till all the bad news is done with ... it will be over in 3 months and we will see the down drop to 5-6K, tons and tons of $$ lost (mostly by the rich and those who can lose it) and the whole economy can recover with all the worthless industries dead. The random stimulus crap only keeps the bad ideas in the market and sick companies still living and eating up before eventually failing.
If it were a serious depression it will last 3 months, and the government can start on doing infrastructure projects at the end to trigger renewal. 3 months of 20-30% unemployment will actually hurt everyone, not just the people with a lot of liability. This will hurt the rich more then the poor. You have 10 bucks and you lose it but people who have 10 million will lose it all.
If they keep meddling with it, we will see a 5 year long recession and the marginal people will be left in the dust. This will have 8-10% unemployment with the unemployed people being the ones who cannot move at the drop of a hat and the ones who are supporting a lot of people with 1 paycheck.
700 billion is a joke, I am pretty sure the rich people who own these banks can hold a lot more in their safe at home.
Cool.
Buddha.
Kinda what happened in the '30s.
Some economist contend that gov't intervention then made the great depression last longer than it should have.
Seems like history repeats itself once again.
BeSafe
PJ
Indeed :icon_confused:
Quote from: PuddleJumper on November 27, 2008, 09:56:55 AM
Kinda what happened in the '30s.
Some economist contend that gov't intervention then made the great depression last longer than it should have.
Seems like history repeats itself once again.
BeSafe
PJ
really and how was that?
Quote from: PuddleJumper on November 27, 2008, 09:56:55 AM
Kinda what happened in the '30s.
Some economist contend that gov't intervention then made the great depression last longer than it should have.
Were these economist wearing tin foil hats by chance?
No tin foil hats.
I am willing to discuss but not at all interested in trading barbs. I can treat people with respect while questioning their point of view. Something that seems to be lacking now days.
But anyway, here's some interesting conclusions from a couple of UCLA economics profs.
http://www.businessandmedia.org/printer/2008/20081027150030.aspx
BeSafe
I see your source is an offshoot of the conservative media basher Media Research Center. Now it all makes sense. Hoover tried the "hands off" approach and that failed miserably. The Great Depression has been studied for generations and most conclude that overall, FDR's policies and actions made a significant impact on alleviating or significantly reducing the suffering of millions of American citizens. Unfortunately the tales of my grandparents' generation are slowly fading, being replaced by 27 minute television documentaries flashing the same tired archived photos over and over. That's not quite the same as looking into the face of someone who experienced it.
I wish I understood the finer bits of economics. I know there are some really smart heads working on this, and some even smarter heads figuring out how to steal their share.
The problem is, evil > good. :-(
Would you leave $100,000 on the table at your house along with a place for me to eat at ? Big gov't is, and they're not even asking for you to turn the stove off after you have a plate. :|
Okaaaayyyy,
Your assuming that since I'm conservative, that I eat and drink the coolaide of Republicanism.
Don't assume.
Hoover did not practice hands off. Look up the Smoot-Hawley Tariff act.
This give you an instance of a Republican instance of Gov't interference.
See, I'm fair. If the Republicans screw up I call it a screw up.
This act increased Tariffs on imports which raised prices. That's the wrong thing to do in a depression. People already can't buy goods so raising the prices doesn't help.
What difference does it make which outlet I'm referencing?
My point was to answer your question about whether the economist I was referring to has tin hats, and also to let Frankie know that I wasn't just pulling something out of thin air.
There are Real economist who question the policies of Both sides during the depression.
They contend that those policies hurt more than they helped.
I am referencing a study done by two UCLA Professors .( last time I checked, UCLA wasn't exactly a media bashing research center.)
I'll see if I can find a different new outlet that references the same story about that study.
Maybe CNN or MSN .
BeSafe
PJ
here ya go.
From UCLA themselves:
http://newsroom.ucla.edu/portal/ucla/FDR-s-Policies-Prolonged-Depression-5409.aspx?RelNum=5409
From a Libertarian point of view:
http://www.politicalcapital.info/fdrs-new-deal-prolonged-the-great-depression/
From a UK news outlet:
http://uk.keegy.com/tag/production-quotas/
And from the New York times:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/10/26/business/26view.html
By the way your assuming I don't know anyone who lived in the great depression.
My Granddad benefited from the works project. I grew up on stories about hard times.
All the above reference the same study. they aren't exactly conservative outlets.
BeSafe.
PJ
QuoteThe Great Depression has been studied for generations and most conclude that overall, FDR's policies and actions made a significant impact on alleviating or significantly reducing the suffering of millions of American citizens.
I never implied that all accounts were a glowing approval. I'm quite aware that there are opposing viewpoints on this subject. I called bs when they put a number to their claim...7 years. Economist seem to be hard pressed to provide an accurate assessment of
current economic conditions. This certainly doesn't give credence to their speculation of past events.
Neither does a " Tin hat comment"
I made a statement, You and frankie Questioned it, I gave a reference to a study conducted by a university, Then you questioned the validity of that because I found the reference to the study on a website you don't approve of.
Soo, I found other sites that reference the same study.
My original statement that it seems history is repeating itself still stands.
Notice the words "seems".. That means that from my point of view, it appears that we could be poised to make some of the same mistakes of the past.
That doesn't make it a fact, just my opinion.
And just because my opinion is different than some, doesn't mean I get my information from people wearing tin hats.
Now if I said that Scotty recently beamed me down to this planet to study its culture.....
That would be a tin hat moment.
BeSafe
PJ
what's wrong with tin hats???? :laugh: :laugh: :cheers:
zombies wear tin hats
And so do canadian liberals :flipoff: :flipoff: :flipoff: :laugh: ( a friendly jab)
Well I see it this way. The constant increase in unemployment is a vicious cycle. When you get to where your consumer base has dropped off the face of the earth due mostly in part to them not having an income because they were layed off, guess what you start cuttin g back in your business as well. then come the layoffs, and killign some one elses consumer base. Perpetuating the downward spiral. With no one makign money, no one can buy anything. With no one buyign anything, places shut down. Makign more people unable to buy anythign. Its never ending. Cut the luxuries. Buy smarter.
silly comments aside i agree with you and this situation has me concerned as a citizen. i know i am safe with my pension coming from the federal government and more specifically veterans affairs. but there are thousands who may see their pension funds shrink greatly
Puddle jumper is not totally right ...
The govt worsened the great depression.
They first did nothing.
Then they attempted to balance the budget and increase interest rates.
Then they attempted to halt the spiral and stimulate the economy (after hoover got tossed on his butt).
Now this time is different ... and this is why it will be worse than the depression ... A rough thanksgiving example is - you can cook the turkey ... or you can leave it frozen ... like the govt did in the 30's, or you can torch it to a flaming charred up crisp like they are now ...
Now we are stimulating the economy regardless of what will survive and what is viable.
The dead industries will soak up a lot of the funds.
The economy will continue to spiral downward with more and more and more defaults, people throwing in the towel, and people just bailing on stuff cos they see their neighbors ... or people on TV doing so. This is called moral hazard. Rewarding crime is only going to turn the whole world into criminals. If they had let the foreclosures just happen and let them crash and burn, only the small percentage of actual foreclosures will happen ... now everone is tempted to walk away from their depreciating debt trap. Cars, student loans, businesses etc etc etc ... all of it.
Then it will just get worse and worse and worse ... nothing can stop it, people have been rewarded for being imprudent ... the pnes that got out early are feeling smug, the ones that are getting out now are feeling smugger, and the ones that are getting out in the future will feel even smugger. The only way to have stopped this ... bail out the honest and hardworking and those who didn't default on their commitments. The crooks belong in prison. Not be rewarded.
Then, the unfeasible industries etc etc need to die. Injecting funds into the economy at random is just going to waste ... like Hummers being made by GM, and people with credit buy it and attempt to fill gas at $10 a gal to commute 100 miles 1 way to their McDonalds job. Random shaZam! like that.
Slowly only feasible businesses survive. That point after the death and settling of the dust, the governemt can stimulate the economy ... and ensure new growth.
I dunno how they cannot see that whatever is on the verge of death ... needs to die. What they will do is ... stimulate now, and have the dying industries eat up the $, then they die anyway, and that will create a crisis among the ones that can survive as well. That makes some extra dead companies ... at which time the govt will hate stimulus ... cos they did so much and it didn't work. Yea peckerheads that's the problem ...
Cool.
Buddha.
wow i really did not get that turkey analogy
Underdone vs over done frankie ...
You also dont want to be caught dead with unused ammunition ...
So as a first step our government is throwing the gun at the problem ...
Or ... its emptying the bullets into the abyss ... right out of their pockets.
Cool.
Buddha.
got it...the ammo did the trick..i'm not that bright u know
Yeah,
This sucks, I work at Universal in Security and have not been scheduled to work for three weeks now. What they did was hire 85 officers to work Halloween Horror Nights and give them five days a week and was hired as Part-time not seasonal. My perception of Part-time is 1-2 days a week not 1 day a month. I'm not hurting as bad (I'm on disability with my heart but not enough to survive on) as other officers that were hired on who got used to 46 hours a week and now nothing! Many were told they would be full-time after 90 days but after the letter saying there would be 1.5 million budget decrease I doubt that will happen. I overheard one of the managers saying they do that every year expecting 1/3 of the force to just quit because they can't survive. I'm sure that many of my fellow officers would not have hired on if we had been told you will work for four weeks like crazy then you will be lucky to get a couple of days a month!
To make matters worse my health has tanked which I'm kinda glad I wasn't scheduled. But, the night I was taken to the hospital by ambulance my car was broken into and my stereo system was stolen and a four foot hole in my convertible top. I fear it is only going to get worse i.e. burglaries and thefts. I even got screwed over by my insurance company in order to keep my monthly statement the same my deductibles were changed drastically from $500 to $1500! So this will come out of my pocket. This is what I get for an automatic withdrawl I guess I didn't see a big difference so I didn't notice the big deductible change because it was not mailed and I didn't think to go on-line and look at the policy. Thought that is something they would tell me but I thought wrong and now even though I shouldn't be riding my bike I have too.
It wouldn't be so bad if I were working 1-2 days a week but now I just don't know :dunno_white:. Anybody in the central Florida area know how to replace a convertible top or have one for a 1999 pontiac sunfire GT that they could sell reasonably?
Thanks for listening!
Mary S.
if i were a bit closer, i could help thre are a few junk yards, which have these tops in em
Do you think I'd find a descent top at a salvage yard? wonder how much it'd cost. man I didn't even think of that.
thanks for the thought at least!
Mary
great example Budha!
Yeah, I agree that at first they did nothing. I was just picking up the story where they did too much. LOL
What is interesting about that time is that It's a great example of both the Republicans and the Democrats getting it wrong.
Hoover first did nothing, then started raising the tariffs.
FDR raised taxes and increased public spending.
Come to think of it, there may not be a right thing to do. Maybe this is a common cold type problem for the economy.
ie, no cure, you just have to let it run it's course.
BeSafe
PJ
Justin hows it going man, have you heard anything new?
another notice earlier this week. they have decided not to pursue a large purchase. (expansion plans put on hold basically.) Not that big of a set back for us really. we are the 6th largest forklift maker in the world. no word from management about lay-offs. of course there are rumors flying around the shop. probably started by employees for employees. i'm sure you know the kind i'm talking about. for example, my has a friend who's boyfriend works for my company. (don't know the plant etc, just that he works for crown as well.) my wife's friend told her the other day that her boyfriend told her that they are going to lay off everyone hired after 1999. sounds a bit far fetched to me. espcially considering they said last year somewhere around 40 percent of the current employees have been with the company 2 years or less. (I just got my 2 years in this july.) and i'm sure the percentage is much higher if you go as far as number of employees with the company 10 years or less. sure we got some 20+ folks too. i dunno. not much i can do really. just punch in on time, do my job and go home. ain't much i can do other than that. every manufacturing type business i've worked in, things get slow in the winter and then pick up in the spring. only this winter we are dealing with a shaZam! economy also. hopefully the vacation days they're making us take and the waiting on the expansion project will float us through and they won't have to let any of us go. playing the waiting game for now. sucks. will keep yiou guys updated though.
BP, thanks for the inquiry! :cheers:
Well, it's official. as of of midnight tonight i'm on layoff. going to do my unemployment stuff on monday. no clues where to even start looking for a job. word on the grapvine is that somewhere between 750-1000 people at my company are affected. i'm so sick of hearing the phrase, "DUE TO THE ECONOMIC SITUATION"... >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( oh well, business is business eh? it wasn't personal. doesn't make me happy about it but not much i can do to change it.
Odd as it sounds, I dont know how I didn't get axed. Maybe cos I am the only one that actually knows unix. The whole rest of the clan knows the application we support inside and out, left to right .... but they cannot list a freaking directory in unix to save their life. And my client and all other large clients use Unix only, In fact some of them use old now dead unix. Like Dnyx. Yea that POS.
Cool.
Buddha.
a huge majority of our guys were given till jan 30th...then they're laid off as well. i don't have exact numbers. but i haven't heard of ANY of the major manufactures here in ohio hiring. all are laying off. with the way the economy is at this point i doubt i could get a mcdonalds job if i wanted one. maybe i need to change fields. who's hiring? what jobs are in hot demand for employees?? :dunno_white:
There will always be a need for morticians :dunno_white:
:laugh: :laugh: but i've heard it's a dying business... :icon_mrgreen:
Quote from: jserio on January 10, 2009, 10:17:34 PM
a huge majority of our guys were given till jan 30th...then they're laid off as well. i don't have exact numbers. but i haven't heard of ANY of the major manufactures here in ohio hiring. all are laying off. with the way the economy is at this point i doubt i could get a mcdonalds job if i wanted one. maybe i need to change fields. who's hiring? what jobs are in hot demand for employees?? :dunno_white:
Prostitution? 8), i tried, the head pimp told me i was too ugly
Man I'm sorry you're laid off but at least you can get unemployment. My job hasn't scheduled me in two weeks now the last week I worked I got six hours, and the week before I got three hours! Granted I'm part-time but geeze I can't even get un-employment 'cause I'm employed! If I quit I'd get 60% of three hours harder work applying. Good luck, on top of it all here in Florida they are cutting budgeting to Work Force because they are using 2006 numbers when our economy in Fl was booming!
My saving grace I get disability but it doesn't cover the bills! Catch 22 I guess! oh well at least I got my bike for now how much longer I can make payments without any extra money I don't know!
Mary
Damn Justin sorry to hear this man. I hadn't been on here in a few days.
Problem with unemployment for him Gooffy is that the maximum benefit will be no where near the amount he was bringing home as a machinist. I went through that back in 03.
As far as fields of work everybody is being hurt, at this moment in time though I could have been making more in the private sector I am glad I work for a public school district.
My wifes lab froze their 3% wage increase last week said it aint gonna happen. But layoffs don't look likely.
yeah, my unemployment benefit is gonna be around 326 a week. :cookoo: i was bringing home almost 550 without overtime. oh well, what can ya do ya know? :dunno_white: