Still trying to get the hang of lane splitting in California. If you know the freeways here, I always travel from the 210 to the 605 to the 5 and then the 91.
I know by law you can only split the carpool lane and the one next to it, but what about on streets? Can you split those lanes when everybody is stopped at a red light? Or could you get a ticket if a cop sees you? What about the traffic lights before you get on the freeway?
I'm just amazed too at some parts when rider's split lanes too, like those bulky utility trucks or buses, and they're going way faster then 10mph over everyone elses speed. I let those guys go by of course, i'm taking my time to get familiar with lane splitting
Also, when in slow traffic and merging on the freeway to get to the carpool lane, can you cross that double line to get over, or should you wait in traffic before the line breaks?
Thanks everybody. Eric
1: Lane sharing, not lane splitting.
2: It's not legal - it's just not illegal. That means there are no laws governing how you do it. The CHP says 'safe and prudent,' and that's a good general rule of thumb. To my way of thinking, a speed delta over about 10 isn't safe and prudent, and sharing between lanes other than the fastest and the second fastest isn't.
YMMV. Don't go faster than you feel safe going. Don't dawdle between cars, though; that's the time when your escape options become limited. Look behind you for people who want to go faster, and let them by.
And most importantly, don't do it unless you know you can make it. Hitting cars is very, very bad publicity for all of us. That bit in Dark Knight when Batman laneshares and hits every goddam mirror? Don't be him.
I'm grateful we have the option to do it legally in CA, and I try not to take it for granted.
Thanks for correcting me, that's how you can tell i'm new to lane sharing, lol...........and yes i'm only going to go the speed i feel comfortable, and let those who want to go faster to let them pass.
But what about some of the questions I have? What's your opinions or comments on those type of situations?
I commute from hollywood to inglewood 5 days a week on surface streets, lane sharing most of the way due to rush hour traffic. Everything i learned from spending years on bicycles in urban environments has been invaluable. Dont go more than 10 mph faster than traffic is moving, try to keep the controls covered, go very slow when driving between (un)moving traffic and parked cars, and dont risk slipping through paths where you cant see how they end. You wont see the car running the red light when splitting and you shoot into the intersection when a bus is the first vehicle in the left hand lane.
I made most of these mistakes years ago on bicycles and was able to crash or bail with little injury. I was "doored" (parked car opening driver side door and you smashing into it) on the bicycle and was lucky to walk with only bruises, a cracked a rib, and some missing skin. Every day i see people on bikes and scooters fly between parked cars and traffic grinding my teeth. Those car doors can open any time. Go slow enough to be able to stop when they do. Let the cruisers and ducatis zip by.
Quote from: respite on February 22, 2009, 01:46:44 AM
I commute from hollywood to inglewood 5 days a week on surface streets, lane sharing most of the way due to rush hour traffic. Everything i learned from spending years on bicycles in urban environments has been invaluable. Dont go more than 10 mph faster than traffic is moving, try to keep the controls covered, go very slow when driving between (un)moving traffic and parked cars, and dont risk slipping through paths where you cant see how they end. You wont see the car running the red light when splitting and you shoot into the intersection when a bus is the first vehicle in the left hand lane.
I made most of these mistakes years ago on bicycles and was able to crash or bail with little injury. I was "doored" (parked car opening driver side door and you smashing into it) on the bicycle and was lucky to walk with only bruises, a cracked a rib, and some missing skin. Every day i see people on bikes and scooters fly between parked cars and traffic grinding my teeth. Those car doors can open any time. Go slow enough to be able to stop when they do. Let the cruisers and ducatis zip by.
+a billion
I was a bike courier here. You learn a lot when you are among them for 10-12 hrs a day making a living. oh and being "doored" or as we here call it, "cruise missile car doored" sucks balls. it can be devastating. I got nailed by a slr600 door. I went over it and luckily landed on my camel back with a recently refilled bladder inside. saved me from possible spinal injuries. still hurt like hell. Folded my front rim in half.
Quote from: GSrookie500 on February 21, 2009, 05:51:04 PM
Still trying to get the hang of lane splitting in California. If you know the freeways here, I always travel from the 210 to the 605 to the 5 and then the 91.
I know by law you can only split the carpool lane and the one next to it, but what about on streets? Can you split those lanes when everybody is stopped at a red light? Or could you get a ticket if a cop sees you? What about the traffic lights before you get on the freeway?
I'm just amazed too at some parts when rider's split lanes too, like those bulky utility trucks or buses, and they're going way faster then 10mph over everyone elses speed. I let those guys go by of course, i'm taking my time to get familiar with lane splitting
Also, when in slow traffic and merging on the freeway to get to the carpool lane, can you cross that double line to get over, or should you wait in traffic before the line breaks?
Thanks everybody. Eric
Hey there Eric...
im another CA member.... im on 101 near the 580
Quote from: starshooter10 on February 22, 2009, 02:33:19 AM
Quote from: GSrookie500 on February 21, 2009, 05:51:04 PM
Still trying to get the hang of lane splitting in California. If you know the freeways here, I always travel from the 210 to the 605 to the 5 and then the 91.
I know by law you can only split the carpool lane and the one next to it, but what about on streets? Can you split those lanes when everybody is stopped at a red light? Or could you get a ticket if a cop sees you? What about the traffic lights before you get on the freeway?
I'm just amazed too at some parts when rider's split lanes too, like those bulky utility trucks or buses, and they're going way faster then 10mph over everyone elses speed. I let those guys go by of course, i'm taking my time to get familiar with lane splitting
Also, when in slow traffic and merging on the freeway to get to the carpool lane, can you cross that double line to get over, or should you wait in traffic before the line breaks?
Thanks everybody. Eric
Hey there Eric...
im another CA member.... im on 101 near the 580
Hey mn, how's it going? We should ride sometime. It doesn't seem like there's alot of people around here who ride GS's.
Hey, I'm near the 5 and 405 "Y" Lived in So Cal all my life.
Been riding (lane sharing) for many years. Everything above is excellent advice. Lane splitting is a luxury not a right. Use it wisely.
One thing I'd like to share (for those who don't know it), is the "Ghost Rider Rule."
Ride like a ghost or become one.
It's simple: When you ride, you must act like your invisible - COMPLETELY invisible. No one can see you at all. The #1 thing said by drivers involved in MC verses 4+ vehicles is, "I didn't see the MC."
Imagine going to a crowded party. For some reason you can not be seen. Your invisible but still can be bumped into. If you are touched by someone, brushed, even just stepped in front of abruptly (so you spill your drink), you loose and have to go home - BUMMER! You goal is to get from the front door to the back of the party.
It's up to you to navigate a path through the people. They are talking, telling jokes, laughing, acting out the day's events, and just plain not giving a sh#t about anyone trying to get past. You HAVE to stick and move, anticipate everyone's Else's move, plan your escapes. Ever try to move across a crowded dance floor? And there's someone dancing wildly with their eyes closed? You cannot be in the same place at the same time as anyone. It is hard to do and takes an incredible amount of concentration. And most of all patience.
I know this sounds a bit dumb, but it is a good concept. I was taught it early, I practiced it, and I'm sure I'm here because of it. I cannot count my number of near misses (or near hits). But, I can count the number of times I've gone down.
Riding makes you smart... Your always having to think for the other guy too!!!
Having said that, If you are lane sharing to make up time this is bad. :cookoo: Time your commute as a car and take the extra minutes you save by lane sharing, and use them to relax at you destination, look up and give a little smile to the 2 wheeled spirit in the sky. :bowdown:
Paul Kaas
This won't work for me, I follow the opposite strategy. When I go to a party I try to be in places where the girls will always bump into me :embarrassed:
Quote from: Pkaaso on February 23, 2009, 02:41:27 AMIt's simple: When you ride, you must act like your invisible - COMPLETELY invisible.
This. Loud pipes won't save your life. You have to assume that you can't be seen, and that any given car is going to get in your way in the worst way possible, and be ready with an escape route for when they do.
Oh, and for the first question - sharing isn't any more illegal on the streets than it is on the freeway. You can filter to the front at a stoplight. I actually think there's a safety gain to that, as you can't be asspacked by someone who isn't paying attention if you're not stopped at the end of a line. But I don't biltz out when the light turns green; people run stale yellows and fresh reds, so I look both ways and take off with caution. It's saved me more than once.
Yeah, you can lane share coming up to a stop light when traffic is stopped. That is one of the main benefits of MC commuting.
I still don't understand why you can't lane share in other states. If congestion is a problem, you can reduce some of it by allowing lane sharing.
Quote from: Juan1 on February 23, 2009, 10:21:19 AM
Yeah, you can lane share coming up to a stop light when traffic is stopped. That is one of the main benefits of MC commuting.
I still don't understand why you can't lane share in other states. If congestion is a problem, you can reduce some of it by allowing lane sharing.
come to the DC metro area. the ONLY time i'd want to do it around here is when the cars are stopped dead or going under 20. that said, i also have zero experience with it in the states (only on a scooter abroad) so i could be swayed after a couple years on the left coast...
Lane sharing, splitting, whatever you call it, legal or not, is dangerous, especially when traffic isn't moving. One dumbass opens his door to empty his ashtray as you whiz by and you're in the Intensive Care Unit.
Quote from: Juan1 on February 23, 2009, 10:21:19 AMI still don't understand why you can't lane share in other states. If congestion is a problem, you can reduce some of it by allowing lane sharing.
I think the right way to go about it is with emergency services. It would solve a number of problems:
-It would get emergency services to accidents faster.
-It would make people aware of moto sharing in a positive context - they would associate it with people being helped and problems being cleared.
-It would make cagers more aware of motos in general, which is a chronic problem everywhere in the US.
I saw a moto-ambulance in Australia, and thought - if one of those shared through traffic and saved your life, you'd be a lot happier about motos sharing.
Oh wow there isn't lane sharing in Fl. Oh wait it's just idiots constantly taking my lane! I don't think the IQ level is high enough here to implement it safely! Red light running is insane down here. I see very few times where lane sharing would be that big of a benefit. Maybe on I-4 but then again drives on that are a krap shot. When I go to Universal which is 14 miles away is only 20 minutes on a good day. On a bad day about an hour. I don't even know how late I should leave for work anymore. If I go in an hour and a half earliy then I usually putz around for an hour. Go in about 40 minutes and end up having to run to hit the time clock. It is maddning at times.
But, yeah ride like they are out to kill you.
Mary
Come to the the other side of the pond where you can split lanes all you want. Notice i say split lanes. Your not ment to ride side by side in a lane and lane share. But you can split between traffic at traffic lights. Generally its only used at traffic lights or in traffic jams in which case it saves time. We don't do lane sharing thats going to get you killed.
Quote from: GSrookie500 on February 21, 2009, 05:51:04 PM
Still trying to get the hang of lane splitting in California. If you know the freeways here, I always travel from the 210 to the 605 to the 5 and then the 91.
I know by law you can only split the carpool lane and the one next to it, but what about on streets? Can you split those lanes when everybody is stopped at a red light? Or could you get a ticket if a cop sees you? What about the traffic lights before you get on the freeway?
I'm just amazed too at some parts when rider's split lanes too, like those bulky utility trucks or buses, and they're going way faster then 10mph over everyone elses speed. I let those guys go by of course, i'm taking my time to get familiar with lane splitting
Also, when in slow traffic and merging on the freeway to get to the carpool lane, can you cross that double line to get over, or should you wait in traffic before the line breaks?
Thanks everybody. Eric
You can lane split wherever it is safe, there is no law that prevents you from doing so. They can bust you for being unsafe (in their opinion, not yours) and they can bust you for changing lanes too frequently (I've known people to get this ticket..), but in LA I've never seen anyone get pulled over for lane splitting. You should take it easy when learning to lane split and only do what you think is safe. When I started riding a year ago, I didn't lane split at all. I started out only going to the front of the line at red lights and working my up from there. You'll find that lane splitting on the freeway is actually easier than on surface streets because the lanes are much wider and there is a lot more space between cars. Just take it easy and don't do anything that you feel is unsafe. You'll get used to it and in a few months time you'll be lane splitting with ease. I take the 5, 110 and 101 all the time and with lane splitting I can get to work in half the time it takes me to drive in my car. I can't imagine living in a place where I couldn't lane split. There is just so much room between cars, and when it gets really hot out, keeping moving is the only thing that keeps you cool.
One last thing, don't cross the double yellow lines to get into the carpool lane. Just because you can lane split doesn't mean you can break any laws. You'll just end up pissing off cagers doing it and you'll draw the attention of cops, which is never a good thing.
Stay safe out there.
Thanks everybody. Very awesome advice to know and learn. Thank you guys :cheers:
Quote from: GSrookie500 on February 24, 2009, 11:16:52 PM
Thanks everybody. Very awesome advice to know and learn. Thank you guys :cheers:
Sure thing. You, me and all the other people who replied to this post from the LA area should go on a ride some day...
Yeah we should all ride up the 101 in and split for the 30 miles it takes to get through LA. Yes I have split lanes numerous times through there for 30 whole miles straight traffic. Really makes you feel productive, even if you're only headed to Galco's to buy some old tyme sodas. :laugh:
Quote from: qwertydude on February 25, 2009, 10:08:15 AM
Yeah we should all ride up the 101 in and split for the 30 miles it takes to get through LA. Yes I have split lanes numerous times through there for 30 whole miles straight traffic. Really makes you feel productive, even if you're only headed to Galco's to buy some old tyme sodas. :laugh:
Mmmm, Galco's. I usually take my car though because I'm not sure that I could resist buying way more soda than I could transport home on my bike... Perhaps once I have my top box mounted, it will be possible...
I think I'm going to give a persuasive speech on the benefits of lane sharing outweighing the dangers. Lets here some arguments I could use, as I've never actually lane shared.
Here's a link to a forum where a bad lane splitting article is discussed.
http://www.sportbikers.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2623
Quote from: bucks1605 on February 25, 2009, 10:45:40 AM
I think I'm going to give a persuasive speech on the benefits of lane sharing outweighing the dangers. Lets here some arguments I could use, as I've never actually lane shared.
Quote from: Roadstergal on February 23, 2009, 09:53:08 AMYou can filter to the front at a stoplight. I actually think there's a safety gain to that, as you can't be asspacked by someone who isn't paying attention if you're not stopped at the end of a line.
That's the only situation where I feel safety is as much there as convenience. But I do like convenience. And I hate traffic congestion, which sharing reduces.
Thanks :thumb:
You know originally I was thinking that there were really no safety concerns that backed lane sharing. But someone can't remember who brought up motorcycle over heating and such. I remember a time I sat in I-4 traffic here in Orlando fo over an hour. I was so hot and drenched in sweat by the end of the day I ended up in the hospital with severe dehydration. I also never really thought about the chances of getting hit from behind. I guess that is why I have seen a few motorcycles sitting under the freeway drinking a powerade! Thought they were crazy but twenty minutes later and only 1/4 of mile farther I began to understand.
So, I guess in short I see both sides of the issue.
Just yesterday was on 192 and a long line at the red light and I wanted to go right so I squirted up the lane. There was no oncoming traffic and the SUV wouldn't take the right even though it was legal. But, was from another state I guess they thought it was illegal?
Mary
As far as I know, turning right on red is OK in every state...
Lane splitting in hot weather is the only way to go. I can't imagine not lane splitting in a place that is both hot and humid...
Quote from: fred on February 25, 2009, 07:16:42 PM
As far as I know, turning right on red is OK in every state...
Looks like you're right (with the exception of NYC): http://www.geocities.com/jusjih/trafficlightsignals.html#us (Note: Reliable source? Check the link for your state.)
Quote from: Esteban on February 25, 2009, 08:56:45 PM
Quote from: fred on February 25, 2009, 07:16:42 PM
As far as I know, turning right on red is OK in every state...
Looks like you're right (with the exception of NYC): http://www.geocities.com/jusjih/trafficlightsignals.html#us (Note: Reliable source? Check the link for your state.)
Good to know. I'm also interested to see that turning left on red (when going from one one-way street to another) is only legal in about half the states...
Dehydration - I wear a hydration bladder when I'm riding in warm weather (and when I'm riding dirt in any weather). Boy has a Camelbak, but I have a $10 one I got on closeout from REI that works perfectly well. The hose slips right inside of a fullface; no need to stop to stay hydrated.
Quote from: Roadstergal on February 26, 2009, 01:03:20 PM
Dehydration - I wear a hydration bladder when I'm riding in warm weather (and when I'm riding dirt in any weather). Boy has a Camelbak, but I have a $10 one I got on closeout from REI that works perfectly well. The hose slips right inside of a fullface; no need to stop to stay hydrated.
Yes, hydration is crucial. I have a Rapid Transit tank bag that has a hydration bladder in it. Not only do I get water and more storage space, I can fit everything I need for work in there on most days so I don't have to have anything on my back. Riding without a backpack is so much more comfortable and it makes it so much easier to move around on the bike...
Hydration bladder in a tank bag - that's clever!
Can't do that on a dirtbike, though, and I have enough crap that I shouldn't get more. :p
I thought the rule was
+ 10 mph but not more than 25-30mph speed.
You can lane split upto 25-30mph moving traffic (that means cars are going 15-20mph)
That is on the freeways obviously. I use that rule.
I see the idiots lane splitting at 65.. ugh!
I lane split on Yonge St in Toronto, so beautiful! Cuts the time in half to get downtown.
Quote from: TheGoodGuy on February 26, 2009, 04:52:51 PMI thought the rule was
It's a sensible rule, but not a codified one.
This is the most I've found as far as official gummint statements:
http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html
The CA Motorcycle Handbook limits its commentary to "Lane sharing is not safe."
I do it at speeds below 15km/h...slow...anything fast lane splitting is dangerousssss.
do about 18k per year sharing lanes some of the way every day. i travel a polite stretch of 680 from benicia to dublin. people make room for you. even in the rain. :icon_eek:
Yeah, after that experience I got a rapid transit and I love it! I got it at the MC shop in front of my apartment complex. Best $75 I spent on the bike seriously! This is what it looks like
http://www.rapid-transit.com/rt/products.cfm?products_id=639
It has sooo much space! I also, really like that it has straps that turn it into a back pack. Plus the mp3 holder with earphone slot, the hydration bladder with a port that comes out and it has clips that holds the tube outside so at a red light you can pull it up and get a good drink. I find if you freeze it half way then fill the other half with water it will be cold all day with a couple of refills too. It actually has an innerbag that the bladder goes in so that it doesn't get everything wet. The sunglass pocket is too small for sunglasses but it holds my ear plugs and oakley sunglass cleaning kit with no prob, It also has two small pockets for pocket and toll change. A slot to read maps or like I did today a list of directions was very useful. The magnets are very strong it ain't goin anywhere. what more can I say this is a great product!
mary
Quote from: Roadstergal on February 26, 2009, 05:17:23 PM
Quote from: TheGoodGuy on February 26, 2009, 04:52:51 PMI thought the rule was
It's a sensible rule, but not a codified one.
This is the most I've found as far as official gummint statements:
http://www.chp.ca.gov/html/answers.html
The CA Motorcycle Handbook limits its commentary to "Lane sharing is not safe."
I believe there is case law on lane splitting though. It isn't written in code, but there are many rulings from court cases surrounding accidents, so I've heard. If only it were easier to find this stuff... I'd love to stay within the bounds of what courts have determined is safe, but I have no idea what that is...
Helmet cam of a lane splitting crash:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c20_1234041020
He seems to be ok and apparently won a large settlement since the Minivan crossed the double yellow lines which is illegal.
Wow! That was a crazy video, I don't think I'd be brave enough to try lane splitting!
Quote from: Faint on February 27, 2009, 06:52:14 AM
Helmet cam of a lane splitting crash:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c20_1234041020
He seems to be ok and apparently won a large settlement since the Minivan crossed the double yellow lines which is illegal.
Woah, crazy video! I think I recognize that freeway. It looks a lot like the part of the 110 north where the 105 junction is. I think I've lane split in that very spot. That minivan driver was a total jerk, but that's not the first time I've seen people go in and out of the carpool lane whenever they felt like it. When traffic slows down, a certain class of idiot cager feels the need to change lanes. The worst are the people who change lanes every time there is a speed differential between their lane and the lane next to them. I hated those cagers before I started riding a motorcycle and now I really can't stand them.
Quote from: Faint on February 27, 2009, 06:52:14 AM
Helmet cam of a lane splitting crash:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c20_1234041020
He seems to be ok and apparently won a large settlement since the Minivan crossed the double yellow lines which is illegal.
damn!!!
....the bike is totalled!....I would never lane split like that, so dangerous and not worth it...I define lane splitting just as like getting to the front of the traffic on a red light...nothing else really
Quote from: Faint on February 27, 2009, 06:52:14 AM
Helmet cam of a lane splitting crash:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c20_1234041020
He seems to be ok and apparently won a large settlement since the Minivan crossed the double yellow lines which is illegal.
In that situation, how would you go about fallen in between lanes if it ever does happen? It seemed like he was about 2 car lengthy apart from the bike. Would you let go of the handle bars immedietily and to fall on your back??? I'm not sure.
That bike looked like a newer GS too. Damn dude, crazy crash, and that freeway and overpass looks familiar too.
I don't think I could go that fast where I can't react quick enough.
I know i read a thread posted by the motorcyclist in that video. I think it was on socalsvriders.
I dont drive that fast while lane sharing. I only feel comfortable going maybe half as fast.
Yeah, he does look like he's going pretty fast. Also, I listened to it with sound and it doesn't sound like he even really hit the brakes. If he were going slower and got on the brakes fast enough, he would have been a lot better off...
Quote from: GSrookie500 on February 27, 2009, 03:57:49 PM
Quote from: Faint on February 27, 2009, 06:52:14 AM
Helmet cam of a lane splitting crash:
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=c20_1234041020
He seems to be ok and apparently won a large settlement since the Minivan crossed the double yellow lines which is illegal.
In that situation, how would you go about fallen in between lanes if it ever does happen? It seemed like he was about 2 car lengthy apart from the bike. Would you let go of the handle bars immedietily and to fall on your back??? I'm not sure.
That bike looked like a newer GS too. Damn dude, crazy crash, and that freeway and overpass looks familiar too.
I don't think I could go that fast where I can't react quick enough.
yep, that looks a lot like an 08 gsF judging by the color scheme.
That is a GSF. There was a topic on here about that crash the person in that video was a board member, I'm sure it could be found again with a search. He looks like he gets off okay in the video but apparently he ended up with a lot of really painful, long lasting injuries. I know how that goes, doesn't seem so bad when the adrenaline is pumping.
I think I know exactly where that is at... It looks like a certain spot in so cal. Orange county on the 57 freeway where the 5 and 57 connect if I am not mistaken.... Very distinct portion of the freeway.
Also, the @$$hole who pulled out... (that's how they drive in orange county, sudden lane changes like someone is about to steal the available space in the desired lane they want)
He was splitting way too fast, I don't go that fast between cars I'll merge back in if I'm going over 25-30 mph. It really doesn't get you anywhere that much faster to split at higher speeds. All I really do is split the lanes on a freeway when traffic slams to a halt then I'll move to the middle only if it's free and clear so I have an out if anyone is stupid and wants to jump into the next lane then get past the pack of tailgaters that caused the big accordion effect of braking and remerge. Like an inchworm there'll no doubt next be a section where those same tailgaters floor it to get back up to speed only to slam the brakes on a slow section again. One year of ownership on my GS500F here in socal and 20,000+ miles almost all on traffic packed freeways, I've noticed traffic and bad drivers enough to pretty much predict what they'll do, though even I wouldn't have seen that idiot but I wouldn't be splitting in that situation there anyways, at least not that fast.
Quote from: vorBH on February 27, 2009, 03:24:16 PM
....the bike is totalled!....I would never lane split like that, so dangerous and not worth it...I define lane splitting just as like getting to the front of the traffic on a red light...nothing else really
Come ride in LA traffic at rush hour (which is a terrible term for the horrible traffic that lasts much longer than an hour surrounding when people go to and get off of work) every day for a few months when it is over 100 degrees out. You'll be lane splitting on the freeway in no time. I can get to work in literally half the time with lane splitting on my bike and I don't even do anything super crazy. I usually keep lane splitting below 35 or so and I'm never going more than about 5 miles an hour faster than surrounding traffic, but it makes a really big difference, especially when traffic is stopped dead.