For on '05 GS500F is it worth it? What power gains are typically seen? Also, since it is increasing the airflow is it going to mess with my air/fuel mixture? Will i need to have the bike jetted after installing one? Trying to decide whether or not it is worth it for a little more grunt.
Quote from: TristanGS on February 23, 2009, 08:40:37 AM
For on '05 GS500F is it worth it? What power gains are typically seen? Also, since it is increasing the airflow is it going to mess with my air/fuel mixture? Will i need to have the bike jetted after installing one? Trying to decide whether or not it is worth it for a little more grunt.
I enjoy it. I bought the bike with it in, jetted and with a V&H . it is nice to never have to buy a new filter either, just clean it, oil it and put her back in.
Meh.
I wouldn't do it.
Cost versus gain... waste of time. It makes a little whooshy noise initially at throttle, which you can't hear when the wind is blowing. I'd spend the money on carb boots, which are probably cracked and making you run even leaner.
You're gonna want to rejet, anyway, if you keep the bike any length of time.
You'll go a tiny bit faster, but you'll have to nearly kill yourself to notice it. And, in that situation, you'd rather that you had spent the money on new brake lines.
I see you have an '05, so nevermind about the carb boots.
I bought a KN for my 93, simply because I hate putting the stock airbox back in. Other than that, it's a piece of unseen eye-candy. If you drive on the highway, then sure. But, if you're riding around town, I'd recommend the ignition advance and brake lines instead.
Just my opinion.
Plus, some people say that running lean helps quicken warm-up times, which helps in-town short trips more enjoyable.
If you think your GS is too slow, then try riding a Nighthawk 250 or something similar. Save the cash for better leather.
I'm looking at buying a Daytona 675 sometime soon once I have the money. But for now I would like some more kick outa my 500 haha. And yea, my leathers are from 1986 :D my dads old ones
I agree with wladziu. Wait until excrement wears out, then upgrade it, as the gains are tiny. Look at the dyno run for Anne's bike. The link to it is on the main page of this website. A bone-stock GS 500 puts 41.2 HP to the rear wheel. She has a V&H exhaust, K&N filter, and Dyno-jet kit. The dyno shows she picked-up exactly 2 HP for about $388 worth of add-ons, which is a 4.85% increase in horsepower. Whoopie freakin' doo.
It makes it alot louder. Positive or negative depending on your preference.
if you want more kick regear drop a tooth or 2 in the front or go up 3 or 6 in the rear or do both. more kick off the line. you wont feel a k&n filter
Quote from: TristanGS on February 23, 2009, 08:40:37 AM
For on '05 GS500F is it worth it? What power gains are typically seen? Also, since it is increasing the airflow is it going to mess with my air/fuel mixture? Will i need to have the bike jetted after installing one? Trying to decide whether or not it is worth it for a little more grunt.
Probably not worth it for the extra grunt... Maybe worth it if you want the sound. You will have to rejet. One huge plus though: you don't ever have to fight with the stupid stock airbox ever again. I didn't fully appreciate this until I got a project bike that still has the stock airbox on it. It is such a huge pain to get that stupid thing on and off the bike over and over again when you're trying to diagnose a carb problem. The lunchbox goes on and off so easily and leave so much more room to route all the hoses in that area. It is worth thinking about...
$35 lunchbox filter off amazon, $10 for new jets, 10 times easier to work on. the factory filter box is a pain. I don't know why, but when I put my filter I FELT a difference. maybe my old filter was just plugged. IDK but I would say its well worth while.
so many mixed reviews ahhh! :technical: haha
well I might as well throw my 2 cents in too. I'm with weston. It was the first thing I did when I bought the bike. I had to clean the carbs anyway since I bought a bike out of a barn. I hate the airbox since it's a pain to work around, so...it saved me time, I rejetted when I cleaned the carb, and everything was easy to put back together without the gosh darn airbox. Hey the way I look at it 2hp is $25 per horsepower. That's darn cheap.
That's 2 HP for $388. You forgot to add the cost of the V&H exhaust. So that's $194/hp.. not so cheap.
Quote from: bill14224 on February 24, 2009, 06:06:48 PM
That's 2 HP for $388. You forgot to add the cost of the V&H exhaust. So that's $194/hp.. not so cheap.
I agree
but your sig says k and n drop in, not a lunchbox. Your jetting on the dyno thread matches what my jetting was with just a lunchbox. That would be some indication of horsepower since extra air requires extra fuel. Is it a drop-in because that's apples to oranges.
23 year old armor makes a charming story but not very well protected vertebra. Dad's old leather makes a great family treasure, but a man deserves his own armor. What's more important: your Dad's jacket or your sensation in your lower limbs?
I'm not trying to insult you. But, if you're looking for more "kick", then you should start by buying more armor and not more fast.
Yeah, the k and n drop in is a waste of time. You want the lunchbox. And as far as the $388 whatever was done, the majority of the extra power is probably coming from the intake not the exhaust. consider this: stock: 127ish jets, just lunchbox: 140ish jets, lunchbox+exhaust: 150ish jets... I know jet size and horsepower are not exactly proportional but there is somthing to be said of it.
Sorry I'm going to have to agree, the horse power gain you get with re-jetting, new exhaust and K&n lunchbox filter is nothing to write home about. Well at least not on the new 3 stage carbs.
The GS will never be a SuperSports bike, but that's not to say it isn't fun.
Yes those mods make it slightly better, yes it makes the bike sound tough, but don't expect a magical transformation.
Quote from: wladziu on February 24, 2009, 07:47:02 PM
23 year old armor makes a charming story but not very well protected vertebra. Dad's old leather makes a great family treasure, but a man deserves his own armor. What's more important: your Dad's jacket or your sensation in your lower limbs?
I'm not trying to insult you. But, if you're looking for more "kick", then you should start by buying more armor and not more fast.
I'm not wearing it for the "family treasure" aspect, I have no money. I cant afford good leathers.
Quote from: TristanGS on February 25, 2009, 06:39:51 PM
Quote from: wladziu on February 24, 2009, 07:47:02 PM
23 year old armor makes a charming story but not very well protected vertebra. Dad's old leather makes a great family treasure, but a man deserves his own armor. What's more important: your Dad's jacket or your sensation in your lower limbs?
I'm not trying to insult you. But, if you're looking for more "kick", then you should start by buying more armor and not more fast.
I'm not wearing it for the "family treasure" aspect, I have no money. I cant afford good leathers.
How about getting decent textile gear? Also, if you're worried about impact only, you can get armor to wear under the old leathers... They make all kinds of armor packages that are made to go under other gear that are CE approved and all that good stuff. It is worth looking in to. Gear is expensive, but well worth having. I spent about as much on my first set of gear as I did on my bike and I've far exceeded that cost at this point but my safety is worth it in my opinion...
I'm strapped for cash, too. That's why I'm telling you not to blow greenbacks on an air filter. I did, and I wish I hadn't. Now, I find myself putting my knee down when I'm not paying attention, with nothing but denim between my patella and asphalt.
Like I said, we're not trying to dog you or anything. I wish I had my Dad's jacket. You're wearing more than some idiots, so I guess that's something. But, invest in yourself before your bike. Please.
Besides, you think you're the first person trying to go as fast as possible? Why not stand out from the crowd a little?
Get a spine protector and have I love YOU sew it in, to update that vintage leather. Or, buy some better gloves. Or some padded shorts. They're about the same price. You'll get a little bit of insurance for your pelvis and lower vertabrae, and it's more comfortable on long rides. Won't go "whoosh" (unless you fart), you won't get an extra negligible horsepower, and the chicks won't see it (maybe). I don't think that would matter if you got T-boned in traffic.
Quote from: wladziu on February 25, 2009, 10:18:59 PM
I'm strapped for cash, too. That's why I'm telling you not to blow greenbacks on an air filter. I did, and I wish I hadn't. Now, I find myself putting my knee down when I'm not paying attention, with nothing but denim between my patella and asphalt.
Like I said, we're not trying to dog you or anything. I wish I had my Dad's jacket. You're wearing more than some idiots, so I guess that's something. But, invest in yourself before your bike. Please.
Besides, you think you're the first person trying to go as fast as possible? Why not stand out from the crowd a little?
Get a spine protector and have I love YOU sew it in, to update that vintage leather. Or, buy some better gloves. Or some padded shorts. They're about the same price. You'll get a little bit of insurance for your pelvis and lower vertabrae, and it's more comfortable on long rides. Won't go "whoosh" (unless you fart), you won't get an extra negligible horsepower, and the chicks won't see it (maybe). I don't think that would matter if you got T-boned in traffic.
The old leathers are only for the track. My road gear is a good joe rocket ventalated jacket (back protection and all) AGV boots, joe rocket riding pants (knee protection etc.) and tourmaster gloves. I got good street gear, my track gear is lacking though but I have only been once. I plan on getting a back protector before going back. But right now for how rarely I can afford to go to the track I dont want to invest much money into good gear.
I have the lunchbox and rejet done on my 05 and from my experience I will have to disagree with some of what has been said here in this thread. There is a noticeable difference to the way the bike rides - besides just sounds, etc. Although there is a measurable increase in hp, the thing that I think makes more of a difference to me is how that performance is delivered. I find with the upgrade my bike's power rolls on smother, quicker and from lower down. I also like the way it starts up better from cold.
And from a non-performance standpoint I also like the amount of room that getting rid of the stock box has created - I use it to store my wet weather trousers rolled in a length of tube, accessible from the gap in the rightside frame. :thumb:
I don't disagree, it's better, just don't expect it to turn the GS in to a rip-snorting rocket
A lot of people use the lunchbox and other KN filters as we all know but I've talked to a couple friends who I consider very knowledgeable. When I brought up the idea of switching out the stock air filter for a KN they both mentioned disliked using them because of the pore size. The KN filters allow more air low by decreasing the filtering efficiency. True the size of particles making it through are very tiny and YES there's the oil to aid in filtering but is is fair to say that they improve flow by filtering less? I've thought about getting a KN and adding some more cotton. I know the medical grade stuff was available in something like 5"x10" pads. Not sure how thick but i should be able to split it. Any opinions :dunno_black:
This is exactly why I have decided not to get a K&N filter to go with my exhaust. Sure you lose a little performance with the stock filter, but you also get better gas milage and longer engine life.
My Dad's DR650 died an early death because of its K&N filter. They just don't filter as well as stock. Is that little performance boost worth shaving thousands of miles off the engine life?
So you think a paper filter is going to filter better than a cloth one with oil? Unless you can prove this, I'm calling BS. Sounds too much like speculation to me.
Paper filters are generally smaller pore size than cloth, so yeah, technically they filter smaller particles. Also, Cloth+oil filters are easy to put in too much oil, which really plays havoc on fuel-injected systems (hot-wire mass air flow sensors go screwy with oil residue) so a big mistake many people make is putting on too much oil, then getting bad results. Nothing wrong with a paper filter, in my opinion.
1000's of miles off the engine's life? Really depends what kinds of conditions you ride in, I guess. Less crap in the air = less need for perfect filtration.
You can't let more air through and expect the same amount of filtration, that just doesn't make sense.
See here for a comparison between many air filters. You can see that the K&N is one of the worst for actual filtration (Uni seems to be worse), and one of the best for air flow.
http://www.duramax-diesel.com/spicer/index.htm
QuoteCompared to the AC, the K&N "plugged up" nearly 3 times faster, passed 18 times more dirt and captured 37% less dirt. See the data tables for a complete summary of these comparisons.
Even if K&N is correct and theirs filter 99% as well as stock, I don't want 1% more dirt entering my engine constantly, so I'm sticking with paper.
Quote from: Bluesmudge on February 28, 2009, 07:00:26 PM
You can't let more air through and expect the same amount of filtration, that just doesn't make sense.
Less filtration isn't
always the cause for improved air flow. It
could be an increase in surface area but it appears KN took the easy route for improving flow. So what do you think about adding some more cotton pad?
Meh. Thanks for providing evidence. BS call officially removed. I still don't think its going to hurt your engine, and I am deffinitely still keeping mine, but i see where your coming from.
i wouldnt expect thousands of miles to be lost by it.
Quote from: ke7syv on February 28, 2009, 07:18:49 PM
Quote from: Bluesmudge on February 28, 2009, 07:00:26 PM
You can't let more air through and expect the same amount of filtration, that just doesn't make sense.
Less filtration isn't always the cause for improved air flow. It could be an increase in surface area but it appears KN took the easy route for improving flow. So what do you think about adding some more cotton pad?
I don't know about adding cotton pads. I have this terrible vision of them getting sucked in to the carbs and causing all kinds of trouble. It doesn't seem like there'd be any way to attach them so you could be sure they wouldn't come off, especially since they're so flimsy....
As for shaving thousands of miles off the engine life, I'm not so sure. How many GSs out there are even within 10000 miles of the engine life? How about 20000 miles? It seems like the major killer of GS engines is not old age. Most of the posts about dead engines seem to be maintenance related: people run them out of oil, they lean them out until they melt, they float valves, they crash them in to things, but hardly ever seem to ride them until they fall apart or wear so much they cease to function. It makes me wonder how many miles the average GS engine has on it...
Tristan, you're covered in more gear than I am at the moment, so what can I say?
If you haven't bought one by now, then enjoy your new filter when you do.
Nice tip on the WW pants, Phil.