:mad:
Ok, I don't know what's going on now. I got a replacement head and got the bike running. Then I went ahead and put the tank back on and hooked up all of the fuel lines and then when I tried to start it the carbs popped off.
I searched around and found that it may be a vacuum problem and somehow related to the frame petcock. I took the tank back off, plugged the vacuum line going into the left carb and put fuel in a funnel directly into the fuel line going to the carbs. Just like before the bike turns over and then (maybe the compression) comes back through the carbs and pops them right off of the mount. I tried it with the vacuum line not plugged...same thing.
Does anyone know why the carbs may do this? :dunno_black: I'm going bald on this one...just about pulled out all of my hair.
There is a hose clamp looking thing that holds the carbs on to the intake tubes.... Do you still have one on each carb? Are your clamps all old and worn out? Are they in the right place? I just took my carbs apart Sunday. They are held in by just shoving them into the intake tubes then tightening the clamp... Do you have the intake tubes? I guess if you had a new head, it might not have come with them and if you didn't transfer them off your old head, you wouldn't have them... I'm talking about parts 21 and 24 in this diagram:
(http://www.bikebandit.com/assets/schematics/Suzuki/SU0083_003.gif)
incorrect cam timing ?
just figured, since you have a new head and all. if the intake tubes were missing, there wouldn't be anything to hold the carbs to the head, right ? i mean, the intake holes and the output from the carbs is a good deal different in size - right ?
wonder wonder ...
I've been a motorcycle owner since 1977 and this is the first time I've heard of someone having trouble getting the carbs to stay connected to the engine. Clamps, anyone? Those round things on the garage floor? :thumb:
But then I figure, no one can be that dumb, especially a GS 500 owner, so assuming he has tight clamps and the carbs are getting pushed off the intake tubes anyway, the clue lies in the fact he has new heads. If the cams are degreed totally wrong, the intake valves may be open when the pistons are coming up, not down. That would push them off, alright! But then, it surely wouldn't run, and he says it runs. Could it possibly be he was concentrating so hard on getting the heads together right he forgot to put the clamps back on?
Quote from: bill14224 on February 24, 2009, 06:45:30 PM
I've been a motorcycle owner since 1977 and this is the first time I've heard of someone having trouble getting the carbs to stay connected to the engine. Clamps, anyone? Those round things on the garage floor? :thumb:
Yeah, there isn't much to holding them on... Also, if your timing was crazy far off, wouldn't the back pressure to the carbs destroy something in the carbs before pushing them off? Seems like lack of clamps is the most likely cause, second only to not pushing them in the intake tubes far enough.. I just put new intake tubes on my bike and it took a bit of effort to get the carbs seated right...
I've got clamps and intake tubes and they're together tight.
I am suspect of the timing. But I don't know how it would get out of time...especially so quickly.
Quote from: thousandlegs on February 24, 2009, 03:04:46 PM
:mad:
Ok, I don't know what's going on now. I got a replacement head and got the bike running. Then I went ahead and put the tank back on and hooked up all of the fuel lines and then when I tried to start it the carbs popped off.
Assumptions: you installed the head, and the bike ran. Engine running, making vroom noises, fuel going in through the carbs and exhaust coming out the exhaust. Then you put the tank on, hit the start, and the carbs
"pop" off. "Pop" means they get pushed off by pressure.
This indicates that the timing did a 90deg switch from exhaust to intake on the upstroke. Did you not adjust the cam tensioner? That
might allow the chain to skip that radically that quickly? That's all I got. Interesting puzzle!
Quote from: BeerGarage on February 24, 2009, 07:48:46 PM
Assumptions: you installed the head, and the bike ran. Engine running, making vroom noises, fuel going in through the carbs and exhaust coming out the exhaust. Then you put the tank on, hit the start, and the carbs "pop" off. "Pop" means they get pushed off by pressure.
This indicates that the timing did a 90deg switch from exhaust to intake on the upstroke. Did you not adjust the cam tensioner? That might allow the chain to skip that radically that quickly? That's all I got. Interesting puzzle!
I did not adjust the tensioner. I merely uninstalled and reinstalled it. Tomorrow when I check the timing I had intended to check that as well.
Alright, I took the valve cover off and the timing was right. Put it back together and it starts but idles very poorly and there is no throttle response. It is sputtering at idle around 1100 or so but even at wot it stays the same...just seems to have less resistance with the throttle open and runs a tiny bit more smoothly.
I have the feeling you have timed the engine 180 degrees out, or your intake valves are WAY out of adjustment. Get out your manual and go though timing from the top. Verify TDC though the spark plug hole. Be careful, the GS is an interference engine, it can bend the valves!
There should be no air pushing back though the intake side that would cause the carbs to pop off.
Are you running so rich you're backfiring the carbs off the bike?
That's kind of what I'm wondering. Maybe it's running too rich...in fact, I believe it probably is. How can I lean it up? I know I can search and I will but any suggestions would be good too.
Where are your mix screws set, incidentally?
What jets are you running?
jets are 118 and mix screws have been at 2 1/4 and 1 3/4. I've had the carbs apart and they're clean. I'm 100% certain that I've installed the cams/chain/ect properly.
Are your float heights good? Did you accidentally mess with them when you took the carbs apart?
I didn't change anything about the float heights. How would I go about adjusting the float height anyway? I guess I need to check the compression too.
Ok, I just pulled off the float bowls and measured the float height. 15mm for both of them. So:
New Main 118 (choose 118 because that's what was in it already..also have 128s that I can put in)
Pilot 40
Float Height 15mm
Mix Screws at 2 turns
Timing set
Stock Exhaust
K&N Filter
Turns over fine. Has run since I've had it but I've not had it on the road. Carbs still pop off often and no response from the throttle.
Did you check the float heights using clear tubing and the carb drains? This seems to be a more reliable method... I have also tried measuring them, but haven't always been able to get my measurements with the carbs apart to agree with the vinyl hose test, so I've deferred to the vinyl hose test as the more definitive one of the two...
Do a compression check. If the inlet valves are not closing properly (ie. less than no gap), then when it fires the carbs will blow off?? Might also explain lack of power and rough running.
We need more info too. Does it start easily? What sort of noises is it making? Is there a loud bang when the carbs come off? Do they always come off together, or sometimes just one?
You need to go through it in a logical sequence. Seeing as the engine has been apart:
1. Compression test.
2. Check valve clearances.
3. Double (triple!) check valve timing.
4. Ignition timing.
5. Carbs and fuel system.
Yeah, I'm gonna try and lay me hands on a compression tool tomorow, as for the timing carbs etc... I'm fairly sure that everything is right.
I didn't check the compression. I put the carbs back on the bike with the screws adjusted to 3 turns and it ran...turned them back to 2.5 and it ran better. I bypassed the frame petcock completely. I rode her for a short bit today and eventually it seemed that it wasn't getting fuel.
All in all it was a good day though...gotta get it tuned properly and start enjoying it.
Update:
Yesterday the bike was running like a brand new one with the mix screws set at 2.5 turns. It idled so beautifully and the throttle was responsive. Then the carbs got gummed up with rust from the tank. Today, I took them off, took them apart and gave them a very good and thorough cleaning. I then checked everything and put them back together. Now, when the bike turns over the carbs are popping off again when it fires.
Because of the way it ran yesterday I am 100% certain that the problem lies somewhere within the carbs and not the timing or anything else like that but, for the life of me, I can't figure out what the problem is. I am going to turn the mix screws to 2 and try...then 1.5. Heck, I'm fast running out of ideas.
If you took your carbs apart again, did you re check the float heights? Also, what are your plugs looking like? They will tell you a lot...
Here are pics of the plugs. Left and right respectively. The carbon is dry.
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c238/thousandlegs/Bike%20Project/IMAGE_021.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c238/thousandlegs/Bike%20Project/IMAGE_022.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c238/thousandlegs/Bike%20Project/IMAGE_028.jpg)
(http://i28.photobucket.com/albums/c238/thousandlegs/Bike%20Project/IMAGE_029.jpg)
Hmm, looks like you've been running rich to me, although there are plenty of other forum members out there who can be a lot more specific on how rich it looks and what to do about it... It is still hard to believe that mixture is the only thing popping your carbs off. I've heard of people backfiring hard enough to blow the tops of their carbs off, but never seen anyone blow the whole carb off the bike... You should get your mixture right, but also figure out why backfiring is causing the carbs to pop off... I'm still thinking you'll find a bad clamp or something else like that.
Well, I believe that the clamps are on their last legs but, just in the interim, I cut a couple of strips out of a soda can and put them under the clamps so that they'll tighten more.
I just turned the mix screws to 2 turns and popped the carbs off again. ARGH!!!
Ok, 1.5 turns and it runs beautifully. Gotta clean out the tank and see if it will run on the tank.
Fuel mixture won't have any effect on blowing your carbs off.
I'm glad it's running, but I don't think you're out of the woods as to your carbs getting blown off. I agree with The Mole. I think we're on to the problem. Your intake valves are open when they shouldn't be and the pistons are blowing your carbs off. Are the heads new, or salvaged? It sounds to me like the intake valves aren't seating properly. There's nothing a carb can do to cause itself to be blown off the intake tubes. The engine is doing it, and those plugs are FOULED, especially the left one. The right plug looks fouled, and the left one looks awful. Assuming the carbs were mixing right to begin with, intake valves not seating properly would contribute to carbon fouling, as you certainly have on those cruddy black plugs. The fact that the color of your plugs don't match makes me suspect the heads you bought aren't up to snuff. I wish you so much luck. This is one of the weirdest problems I've ever heard of! I've heard of this sort of thing happening to 2-strokes with broken reed valves, but a 4-stroke? never. A carb is like a kazoo in reverse with gas being sprayed into it. It's not going to pop itself off. Could carbon be holding your intake valves open and now the carbon is reducing and the valves are closing enough to keep the carbs on the bike? That's what I'm thinking right now.
Alright, carb gods, I have a new problem:
Yesterday I cleaned out the carbs and the bike ran like a champ. I put over 5 miles on it around the neighborhood and it ran like a top. Then I parked it to take my dog to the vet. My brother and I were going to ride to my mother in law's house after the trip to the vet's.
When I got back we fired up our bikes but mine was only running on the right cylinder. We pulled the plugs and they looked ok. Both were giving a spark but we could pull the plug wire off of the left plug and there was no change in the running. It won't take throttle or anything. The choke doesn't seem to make much of a difference either.
I took the carbs apart this morning and gave them a once over...checked everything and put them back together and still...right cylinder only. Any ideas?
I had a problem with a dead left cylinder. It was a clogged pilot jet. When you took your carbs apart this last time, could you see through the pilot jets? Maybe your tank needs a good cleaning and/or inline filter?
Oh, and the float height measurement was :bs: for me. I had to go by the clear tube method.
Quote from: Paulcet on March 03, 2009, 10:28:40 AM
I had a problem with a dead left cylinder. It was a clogged pilot jet. When you took your carbs apart this last time, could you see through the pilot jets? Maybe your tank needs a good cleaning and/or inline filter?
Oh, and the float height measurement was :bs: for me. I had to go by the clear tube method.
The pilot jets are clear, as are the mains. Actually, I'm surprised that it even runs on one cylinder. I've checked the float heights by the ruler method.
Checked the diaphragm for pinholes?
Quote from: sledge on March 03, 2009, 12:32:22 PM
Checked the diaphragm for pinholes?
No, but how would a pinhole have gotten there with it sealed up in the top of the carb?
I checked the float heights with the tube method and both are really close to the same at the top of the float bowl.
Quote from: thousandlegs on March 03, 2009, 01:06:48 PM
No, but how would a pinhole have gotten there with it sealed up in the top of the carb?
Magic!
Ok, I just came in for a few. Tonight, I'm going to break the carbs down again to check for anything out of the ordinary. It's really not a big deal now...I've had them apart 1/2 dozen times now, lol.
I am open to any additional info/help/suggestions.
My suggestion is check your valve clearances and figure out why you are developing so much pressure on the back side of the carbs to push them off.
Crank the engine over by hand, once the right piston(or left piston whichever one is not firing) is on the compression stroke simply put you hand over the carb boot and block it. As you continue to crank it over, if you feel air leaking out between your hand and the carb boot, well something is wrong.
What is the chance that you have an valve sticking open during the up stroke and that's blowing you're carb's off?
The carbs aren't coming off now. I got new clamps and they're holding tight. The issue now is that it's only running on the right cylinder.
I'm not a carb God, but I know it's a vacuum operated device and can't blow itself off as it has no ability to create positive pressure. Whether it ran or not, I'm still thinking at least one of your exhaust valves isn't closing completely. Now that the left cylinder isn't running at all, you may find your left exhaust valve is stuck open. I hope it's not too open, or it'll hit the piston. If that happened you'd know it! I'm still thinking your new heads aren't up to snuff.
Quote from: bill14224 on March 03, 2009, 06:52:44 PM
I'm not a carb God, but I know it's a vacuum operated device and can't blow itself off as it has no ability to create positive pressure. Whether it ran or not, I'm still thinking at least one of your exhaust valves isn't closing completely. Now that the left cylinder isn't running at all, you may find your left exhaust valve is stuck open. I hope it's not too open, or it'll hit the piston. If that happened you'd know it! I'm still thinking your new heads aren't up to snuff.
If he's getting pressure on the intake side, wouldn't that be an intake valve that sticking? I thought a sticky exhaust valve would lead to the exhaust being sucked back into the cylinder during the intake stroke, this seems more like the intake valve is open during the exhaust stroke, creating pressure on the intake side and popping the carbs off...
I also agree that new clamps probably just masked the problem. My understanding is that those clamps are there to prevent a vacuum leak, not to hold the carbs on the bike. I'm pretty sure you should be able to run the bike without the clamps in place. It would run super lean because of vacuum leak around the intake tubes, but the carbs wouldn't pop off...
So it sounds like you guys think that I should open the head back up to check valve clearances? What about the fact that it was running perfect the other day before I took my dog to the vet? Any ideas as to why it would run so well then do this with no changes?
I'm going with fred on this one look at previous post, And I'd check your coil contacts where the wire connects to your coil pack if its not firing start there and work you're way back .
The plug will spark and the coils are connected snugly. We swapped the coils yesterday to be sure that wasn't the problem and had the same result. It backfired a few times yesterday and sounded like a high powered rifle. I think that the valve cover is coming off today or tomorrow to check valve clearances and to be sure that they're all opening and closing as they should. (insert unbridled cursing here)
Quote from: thousandlegs on March 04, 2009, 07:41:42 AM
The plug will spark and the coils are connected snugly. We swapped the coils yesterday to be sure that wasn't the problem and had the same result. It backfired a few times yesterday and sounded like a high powered rifle. I think that the valve cover is coming off today or tomorrow to check valve clearances and to be sure that they're all opening and closing as they should. (insert unbridled cursing here)
That sounds like a good idea to me.
I'm with Fred on this. I'm not trying to convince anyone to do more work than needed, that ain't my style, but carbs don't push themselves off engines, it's the other way around. Perhaps it ran good briefly because there's a sticky exhaust valve that worked right for a little while, and now it's hanging up again. Just a theory, but it explains why your carbs frequently jump off the engine!
Yeah, well, I'm going to take the carbs and valve cover off tomorrow and try to make her happy. Should be in the 70s for the next few days and I wanna get some riding in. I'm still completely new, at 33, to motorcycling and I've got a bit of a bug from my couple of rides on GusSie.
Alright, today we took the valve cover off and checked all the clearances. As it turns out one of the exhaust valves, the left one, had no clearance and was likely staying open. Got all the valves in spec.
Put everything back together and the bike only ran on one cylinder again.
Took the carbs apart and gave them a thorough cleaning and put them back on. Still one cylinder.
Then we swapped the plugs and found that one of them was dead...it sparked very well but wouldn't do anything under compression. Got two new plugs and it runs on both cylinders again but there is no throttle response and it idles poorly.
Anybody wanna buy a motorcycle?
Not really, but more gremlin help would be appreciated.
are you sure you reconnected the vacuum line to the left carb? it running lean from a vacuum leak will make your idle all over the place. been there, done that :cool:
First I will take a bow for correctly guessing a stuck open left exhaust valve. :woohoo: I'll think about your present problem and get back later. Right now I'm thinking carbs, as you keep taking them apart and your symtoms keep changing.
Quote from: bill14224 on March 06, 2009, 08:25:09 AM
First I will take a bow for correctly guessing a stuck open left exhaust valve. :woohoo:
Somebody buy that man a beer!
I am suspect of the carbs too but I don't know what the problem could be. I took out the 118s and put in 134s so now the jets are 40 and 134...floats are still in spec and I've tried mix screws in .25 turn increments from 1 to 3.5 turns. The weather is getting nice here in Pensacola and I'm desperate to ride the bike both for fun and for fuel savings. My other vehicle is a 2000 Jeep Cherokee...fuel consumption ftl!
118, 134, you're screwed, you have DJ.
I suggest you replace the ^&*)(*&(%^ with the other provided ()*(&&*(O and maybe adjust the ^%^% to (*&()( and when you start it, just jiggle the (*&*)( and pray that the ()*(*&^*( does not come off from the $#^%#$ as it did before.
You have stock needles still or you toss them ?
If you have stock needles sitting around, tell me what setup you have and I could see if I can guide you.
BTW starting this weekend I'll have a running GS (after almost 3 years), I can set and tune the DJ crap to your setup. That will possibly help scores of others ... but I cant guarantee it will work. I also will charge ya, possibly 75 bucks or so. And return shipping. However if I get it working on mine you should have no trouble on yours. Unless the problem is elsewhere.
Cool.
Buddha.
To the best of my knowledge the needles are stock. All I have changed is the main jets which, as I said, are now 134s. On the top end of the carbs I have one washer and the clip that is on the notches is on the top notch so:
plastic ring>washer>clip on top notch all inserted and connected to the diaphragm which was inspected and has no holes or tears
timing is set properly, valves are in spec, float heights are correct (even with the top of the float bowl) according to the tube method
Did you use symbols on purpose here: I suggest you replace the ^&*)(*&(%^ with the other provided ()*(&&*(O and maybe adjust the ^%^% to (*&()( and when you start it, just jiggle the (*&*)( and pray that the ()*(*&^*( does not come off from the $#^%#$ as it did before.
Then forget 134 and 118 and whatever.
Stock needles, and your pipe and filter ?
Anyway stock filter with or without pipe = 125 mains, 40- pilots 1 wahser under the E clip in the needle and 3 turns.
K&N in airbox and pipe = 127. mains.
K&N lunch box with pipe 150 mains.
That's cool.
DJ uses some funky crap you cannot buy anywhere, so I used the %^%%$ notation.
No DJ = No problem.
Know DJ = Know problems. You know, like Jesus.
Cool.
Buddha.
Hey Buddha! What size washer, and can I get a pair of 127 mains?
Ok, here's a video of it doing what it's doing. I have 118, 128 and 134 jets. I put the 118s back in because it ran so well the other day with them in. I tried 1.5 to 3 turns at .5 turn increments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gyyXiYp4Nwc
Thanks!
It sounds like the mixture screws aren't set right, and/or the choke isn't working properly. I don't know the temperature where you are, so it's tough to guess. When you're just trying to get it started and not riding it, it doesn't matter what main jet size you have. It's the pilot circuit and choke we're concerned about at this point. Make sure your choke is working properly. WD-40 both ends of the cable, and also the choke plunger. Make sure it's free to move all the way in and out. Set the air and fuel screws to the factory settings. That should be close enough to get it running. For now, don't stray far from stock settings, and set the choke where you normally would under those conditions after you make sure its total movement is free. We know those are close enough for it to run. If it still won't run, there's something else going on.
I've had the mix screws at several different settings. The choke...I can see it doing it's thing when I've got the carbs apart but does it do anything aside from open up that small hole inside (forgot if it's in the top or bottom) where you can see it?
Still at a loss and I can't afford to send it to Buddha as my wife and I have both recently been laid off.
Another update for those who are trying to help me figure out my problems. I did a compression test today:
Left 122
Right 135
Maybe the exhaust from the other cylinder was coming into the left side through the open valve, popping off the carbs. Fixing this with resetting valve clearance (if that is the problem) could have fixed the "vivacious" carb issue, but it might run rough if someone has screwed with the timing to make up for valve work. Not sure if it's possible, but just an idea. Maybe the new plugs with better corners on the electrodes could be masking the issue, since they offer a stronger/longer lasting spark. :dunno_white:
I 'm obviously not very good at this, so don't laugh too hard.
But, when I hear backfiring then I think timing or flooding.
If this is a new problem, could it be that someone tried the timing advance mod and screwed it up? And that it's evident now that you adjusted the valves?
Is it possible that the maladjusted valve accumulated carbon and is now not providing a proper outlet when open, due to the tighter clearance? Probably not, but just a thought.
Have you tried with the tank on, now that you've done all of this wrenching? Maybe that little funnel isn't giving enough pressure to fill the bowls. Probably not this one, either.
Head gasket could have screwed up on the left side. :dunno_white:
Could have the valves set too tight? I haven't adjusted mine yet, so don't yell at me if this isn't possible. Just shooting around some ideas. Interesting problem you have.
You pulled the head, you had to have touched the cam timing to do so. Without reading through 3 pages, I'm with ohgood on the 3rd post....cam timing.
He pulled the head? I thought he just popped the cover.
I third the cam timing. Motion carried.
I fourth the Cam Timing. I would give thought to Wladziu's idea about fuel pressure. When I saw the video it was the first thing I thought of. I remember how picky the Weber on my 84 Pulsar NX ca e about fuel pressure. Maybe something with at least 1 gallon of fuel would be my recommendation. Hope this helps. Smart thinking, posting the vid and all. :thumb:
We have had the engine apart down to the block. The timing is spot on but if I can't get it figured out I'll probably take the valve cover off again to quadruple check. In fact, I'll probably do that tomorrow. Today I took the carbs apart and cleaned them very very thoroughly and put in some 228 mains. They look like new carbs now inside and out.
Something that puzzles me is that there seems to be no difference with the choke open or closed. There hasn't been any timing advance work done. It is set at the standard setting.
Do any of you live near Pensacola, FL so that maybe we can swap carbs just to test?
Check the cam timing, and post a picture of what the cam settings are.
I really doubt it is your carbs, but if you spray in a little fuel it should rev right up if it were the carbs.
Quote from: coll0412 on March 08, 2009, 05:31:51 PM
Check the cam timing, and post a picture of what the cam settings are.
I really doubt it is your carbs, but if you spray in a little fuel it should rev right up if it were the carbs.
I agree that it SHOULD rev when spraying in fuel but it doesn't.
I haven't seen the the timing setup on my bike, but it's a common mistake on cages to set the sprockets on the wrong stroke. Hel1, you know what we're talking about. Like it's "180 out". Very easy to do.
Yes, it's firing, but it could be just from compression and hot plugs. Like a diesel. And you've got to admit that that motor sounds like crap. Would explain why it's only idling (if you can call it that) on full throttle: more fuel to be compressed.
Or not.
Maybe the head gasket is still laying on a shelf somewhere. It's been known to happen. But, you're not pinging and the compression is alright (except for the slight loss on the left).
You could try bypassing the petcock. Don't think it would do anything, though.
But, if your cam timing is dead on (after you've verified), your carb settings and air management are stock and unfouled, your plugs are new and gapped and firing, and your valves are adjusted, then you may have quite a mess on your hands. Your coils may not be getting enough or putting out enough juice, but not likely. Those things usually just fail outright, and I hear the ones on the GS are pretty reliable.
One would assume terrible blow-by or more dramatic problems with a rod, but the compression doesn't seem THAT unusual. No banging or anything.
Run some seafoam to clean out any junk on the valves and hopefully improve the compression, and maybe try a new tank of gas instead of that old stuff with water in it.
Other than that and the timing: :dunno_white:
Ok, for those who are following this problem here's the solution:
Some deep searching and, thank you Kerry, I found an old thread where you had to replace the black four wire connector from the left side under the fairing. I cranked the bike, jiggled that connector and the idle shot up and it was running strong. I cut the connectors off and connected the wires with blue butt connectors and some dielectric grease...the bike runs fantastic now.
Also, in investigating I found that the cams were one tooth off of rotation and the compression is now L155 R170. So, all you "running on one cylinder" people, check that connector.
Thanks everyone!
See! The old guys let you rack your brain, sounding like an idiot. Then they jump in at the last minute with a simple thing like a friggin butt connector.
With their dam 800 years of experience.
Somebody should put that stupid thing in the wiki. Four pages for a flipping connector.
Glad it worked out for you, anyway.
Congrats. Glad you didn't sell it after all! Enjoy.
:woohoo:
WOW! Something so simple and you were ready to give up! I'm glad you stuck with it and were able to find out the problem! Happy Riding!
You did well to get to the bottom of that, it would be enough to drive anyone nuts! :thumb: :woohoo:
Quote from: the mole on March 10, 2009, 11:48:27 AM
You did well to get to the bottom of that, it would be enough to drive anyone nuts! :thumb: :woohoo:
It was a short drive. At any rate, it runs great :woohoo:
Oh, I see now, you found it in an OLD thread. That's an awesome use of the search function!
Guess I should check the connector on mine before it sh!ts the bed, too...
Glad you finally found the problems. You had three problems going on at the same time, that's why we were so flummoxed! :technical:
Quote from: bill14224 on March 10, 2009, 06:54:25 PM
Glad you finally found the problems. You had three problems going on at the same time, that's why we were so flummoxed! :technical:
Well, the real problem...the one that was causing the most trouble, was the connector. I had no idea that an electrical problem could manifest itself that way.
Quote from: thousandlegs on March 10, 2009, 07:40:31 PM
Well, the real problem...the one that was causing the most trouble, was the connector. I had no idea that an electrical problem could manifest itself that way.
I thought that your initial problem was "Carb won't stay on the bike!!!" Where your intake valves open when they should have been closed (cam timing problem) and maybe that was the reason your carbs where popping off? Wouldn't that make the electrical problem secondary?
Quote from: Suzuki Stevo on March 10, 2009, 08:45:33 PM
Quote from: thousandlegs on March 10, 2009, 07:40:31 PM
Well, the real problem...the one that was causing the most trouble, was the connector. I had no idea that an electrical problem could manifest itself that way.
I thought that your initial problem was "Carb won't stay on the bike!!!" Where your intake valves open when they should have been closed (cam timing problem) and maybe that was the reason your carbs where popping off? Wouldn't that make the electrical problem secondary?
Yes, but only secondary to the original problem. The carbs popping off was solved and rather than opening a new thread I just continued with the troubleshooting until the entire set of problems were solved. After the cam position was solved the issue of running on one cylinder was the gremlin at hand.
It was running on one cylinder because that connector carries power from your ignition kill switch to the coils, and obviously (NOW!) one coil wasn't getting juice. The dreaded orange and orange/white wires come into play again!
If you had checked the plug when the cylinder was dead, you would have found no spark. Then we would have told you to make sure you're getting power from the kill switch to the coil, and a good connection from the coil to the plug.
This is a good example of why it's important (not to mention time and money saving) to diagnose problems properly rather than take a shotgun approach.
Quote from: bill14224 on March 11, 2009, 07:27:49 PM
It was running on one cylinder because that connector carries power from your ignition kill switch to the coils, and obviously (NOW!) one coil wasn't getting juice. The dreaded orange and orange/white wires come into play again!
If you had checked the plug when the cylinder was dead, you would have found no spark. Then we would have told you to make sure you're getting power from the kill switch to the coil, and a good connection from the coil to the plug.
This is a good example of why it's important (not to mention time and money saving) to diagnose problems properly rather than take a shotgun approach.
That is not necessarily the case. When the cylinder was dead there was a strong spark at both plugs but apparently not enough to spark under compression. I gave ALL symptoms as I discovered them and there WAS spark on both plugs.