I have been trying to get my exhaust header bolts out for the last couple hours with no luck.
The outermost bolts on each side came out no problem but the inside 2 are stuck.
I have been spraying penetrating oil on them repeatedly for a couple days but it doesn't seem to have done any good.
One of the bolts is actually already about 1/4 of an inch out and I'm assuming the PO must have cross threaded it because he tried to take up the slack with 3 or 4 washers.
I already broke 2 Allen wrenches and 2 screw drivers just from putting too much torque on them I'm not really sure what to do next.
Also tried grabbing with a vise grip but there is no room to rotate once I'm clamped on.
If I get a really long sawz-all blade i might be able to cut a slot in the bolt head and turn with a Flathead but I'm worried I'll break off the top of the bolt.
can I drill them out and retap? will a torch help somehow?
heat cycles (ride the bike or a torch) and penetrant...
or you'll end up having to drill stuff out. the drilling won't be fun at all.
there are impact drivers available at autozone that might help, or might break the bolt. if/when you put new bolts in, use anti-seize !
no dont use antiseize, it wont help on header bolts. replace with studs and use nuts on the end of the studs. permanent fix and what Suzuki should have done in the first place.
I will definitely replace the bolts with studs that sounds like a really good idea.
Now I just need to get the old bolts out.
to use the torch method what do I do exactly?
Heat up then apply penetrating solution then allow to cool and repeat?
I wouldn't heat them too much, like you would using a propane torch. The bolts will lose their temper, then twist and break-off. Use PB Blaster and work them in and out, re-spraying each time, until you finally get them out. Start with the one that's partially out, it'll be good for your morale. Use a quality 6mm T-handle hex wrench. I have stock bolts on my '94 and they came out easy with a T-handle wrench. Soaked 'em in WD-40 before putting them back in for good measure. Just changed my exhaust system last month. By the way, it was warm in Buffalo today so I took it for a nice hour long ride. Don't mean to gloat but my bike runs SUH-WEET! :thumb:
I WANT SPRING!!!!!!!!!! :thumb: :thumb:
The one that is half way out got cross threaded then PO just tightened the crap out of it.
I can turn it about a quarter turn in either direction but that is it.
After turning it back and forth for at least 20 minutes while soaking it in penetrating oil it wont budge.
I am worried getting those bolts out will be like opening Pandora's box
I am starting to not mind my rusty exhaust more and more.
yea dont tease it too much; theres a point where it will just snap and you will be SOL. my outer left hand bolt snapped and it's impossible to drill/retap. The frame sits right in front (and i'm not too savy on dropping the motor out a few to do it)
i used stainless bolts with high temp copper anti sieze and it poses no problems; however studs would be a good idea.
hmm, no to anti-seize ? weelllll, ok. i've used anti-seize something needs it, and loctite when it needs it for a while. they haven't changed places once from what i remember. (shrug)
iirc there were two threads that were quite descriptive about how much a pita it was to drill out the exhaust bolts/studs whichever was broken in the head. might provide some insight. :)
Quote from: dohabee on February 25, 2009, 06:15:00 PM
One of the bolts is actually already about 1/4 of an inch out and I'm assuming the PO must have cross threaded it because he tried to take up the slack with 3 or 4 washers.
We havent had this topic up for a while :D
You are up shaZam! street unfortunately and there is no magic wand. Penetrating oil is pointless, this thread is already damaged, force it and all you will do is strip what remains. You can force it out then drill and tap it oversize if you feel confident enough and there is enough metal to accept a larger diameter but unless you have the correct tooling and know what you are doing you stand a chance of damaging the head and the repair will never be of the same standard as the the original.
Lots of helpful advice being given but drilling out a hi-tensile bolt in a soft alloy head in situ and reclaiming it is far more difficult than it sounds, particularly for someone with no experience.
Bite the bullet, grind the remenants off, take the head off, find an Engineering shop and ask them to machine them out and fit thread inserts. Then throw the standard socket-cap bolts away and use chrome-plated studs and nuts instead. Avoid stainless-steel fastenings, they have nowhere near the tensile strength of the standard bolts, ok for light loads but not this application.
This is exactly the same bolt I am having problems with --------> http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=24982.0 (shows how much I searched before posting :oops:)
I have enough experience drilling and tapping that I think I could do it, but the risk is not worth the reward.
I will call a few machine shops just to see what it would cost but I don't think I want to take my heads off just to paint the exhaust.
I am sad now. :cry:
Well hello. I'm famous. :D That was many years ago. I was extremly newbish. I'd be able to get the bolt out myself now.
dohabee, do yourself a favor. Stop whatever you're doing. Don't shear the bolt off like I did. Go get this.
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?id=100051815&jspStoreDir=hdus&catalogId=10053&marketID=401&productId=100051815&locStoreNum=8125&langId=-1&linktype=product&storeId=10051&ddkey=THDSiteMap
(http://www.homedepot.com/catalog/productImages/300/a0/a0a5f566-3fa7-4745-887a-5306732abb03_300.jpg)
Find the grip that fits snuggly over the allen bolt. Give it a few small taps to lodge it securely onto the bolt. Attach a socket wrench and apply torque. The bolt grips are pretty sweet and will apply torque more evenly (outside vs inside) across the bolt so it won't shear as easily. They are tapered so the more torque applied the harder they grip the bolt head.
I haven't met a seized bolt that these grips couldn't get out. Of course apply PB Blaster liberally. Let me know how it goes.
Wow that is cool I have used the type that requires you to drill a hole but haven't seen these before.
Will it get enough grip on a round bolt as opposed to one with flat edges?
Assuming I get the cross threaded bolt out what are the odds I'll be able to get it back in?
How bad will it be to only have 3 header bolts as opposed to 4?
For future reference, alanwrenches SUCK... get yourself a good set of alan sockets. They're basically a 1/4 or 3/8 socket (depending on what driver you have) that has a alan or (sometimes) star drive on the end. Star drives WILL work for alan bolts, however you want to be careful not to break the fins on the stars.
Get a good quality TEMPERED set from Craftsman or Stanley (industrial, not wal-mart) and you'll be set for life... you'll have WAY more leverage using a ratchet and extension rather than those rinky-dink alan wrenches.
Also... studs, definitely studs. Re-threading aluminum to accept another steel bolt is only repeating history.
OH, and on the anti-seize thing, the head gets so hot that any antiseize will actually boil out or could possibly (if it's graphite or carbon based) will cause the threads of the head to BOND to the bolt.. almost liquid-welding them together... bad news.
If anything, put a drop of grease on the bolt, maybe 30w oil. Just so the initial install goes smoothly but anything you put on there will bake off as soon as the motor warms up.
:cheers:
Bolts are not indestructable and it doesnt matter what fancy tool you want to put on/in the bolt head in an attempt to remove it. Its stuck fast, and if the torque needed to free it off exceeds the shear and tensile limits of the bolt.........it will fail...end of story.
Quote from: Danny500 on February 27, 2009, 12:54:41 AM
OH, and on the anti-seize thing, the head gets so hot that any antiseize will actually boil out or could possibly (if it's graphite or carbon based) will cause the threads of the head to BOND to the bolt.. almost liquid-welding them together.
Good copper based anti-seize compounds... like this
https://www.toolshopdirect.co.uk/item.php?sn=HOW44607&setcurrency=y&code=EUR
are effective up to 1000-1100C. I dont think using it on the header bolts it will cause any issues, by the time the head gets to 1000C it will be a big silver puddle on the floor and the bolts will have fallen out on their own!
If you are one of these people who like to torque everything up to OEM spec, the rule of thumb is to reduce the figure by 10% if the thread is wet.
The sledge is right. I actually managed to weld some thing onto the stub I had and waited till it cooled off and sprayed wd40 and penetrating oil etc and still managed to shear that. Sorry, no good answers here. Maybe if you manage to get an allen socket on it good you can weld it in place and try to pull it. But can still be a crap shoot.
Cool.
Buddha.
Quote from: dohabee on February 26, 2009, 11:57:19 PM
How bad will it be to only have 3 header bolts as opposed to 4?
DO NOT DO THAT. I did that for about a month. Ran the bike with only 3 header bolts. Don't do it. First you can bend a valve (http://gstwins.com/gsboard/index.php?topic=29605.msg320776#msg320776). It causes all sorts of stupid problems with your engine performance. The engine needs a tight seal on the headers to function properly. Get the bolt out then worry about riding.
Tussey,
Thanks for the tip on the Irwin Bolt Extractors. They're fantastic.
I had a stuck header bolt. I striped out the hex head by using a torque wrench with a 6mm hex adapter. I'd already sawed a flat-tooth slot on it before I decided to search the forums. I went and bought these Irwin bolt extractors, found them at the second Home Depot I tried.
I didn't even have a hammer, to pound it on with, so I used one of my cheap wrenches. The Extractor gets tighter when you crank it. The mangled bolt popped right out. It looked like the exhaust had hit the ground and bent the bolt. Now I've got some 8mm threaded stainless steel to replace the bolts when I put it back together.
Thanks, dudes!
-matthew-
Stainless fastenings eh? Well go easy on them or you will be right back where you started. They wont corrode but they do lack tensile strength and are far more susceptable to shear if overtightened.
You would be better off with zinc plated hi-tensile bolts or chrome plated studs and nuts if you can find them :thumb:
Sledge,
You know, they might be chrome plated. I'm not sure I could tell the difference between stainless and chrome plated. I just grabbed some threaded studs from the hardware store, threaded them in, and cut off the excess. This bike (engine) is a bit of a rusty thrasher, so it's my noob mistake bike to learn wrenching, right and wrong. : )
and these Irwin bolt extractors are awesome!
Quote from: norcalbarney on November 03, 2010, 05:24:32 PM
and these Irwin bolt extractors are awesome!
Watch out for screw extractors though!! I bought a nice set and it snapped flush when I was trying to drill and tap out the frontmost screw holding the cylinder to the head. I went through a couple heavy duty bits on it which had no effect whatsoever.
I would drill them out. Small hole deep into the fastener. Use several small bits and be prepared to burn the hell out of them. At some point the friction of the drilling with a dull bit will loosen the fastener. Pack a lunch. Use a cheap drill motor. Or whatever. You probably got it already.
Nothing for nothing but I have lot's of experience in this. Everyone has their own methods and many have suggested good ideas to you. I worked on aluminium heads on VW's for 20 years plus and have had many results. If I could tell you anything it would be have a plan and be patient. When you get in a rush things go bad.
Liquid wrench the shiat out of it, have help when you are drilling into the stud..ergo have someone watch your angle to make sure you are drilling as perfect as possible without drilling into the head itself.
Now once you do get the easy out in you need to work it in and out, in and out, a 1/4 turn is a big gain with something that is stuck..so be patient! And one last thing is only use your wrist for power not your arm it's too much torque! Well good luck and let us know how you made out so others can learn from what you did? :thumb:
Before drilling, try Eastwood's "Freeze-Off".
Penetrates, freezes and cracks rust to free up stuck parts. Designed for people restoring old cars.
Its worth a try before you start grinding and drilling things out.
Actually made by CRC industries www.crcindustries.com or order from eastwood.com
http://www.eastwood.com/crc-freez-off-super-penetrant.html
Bottom line is make a plan. Addiasguy has ideas I never have heard of so. I know in the day mine worked.