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Main Area => General GS500 Discussion => Topic started by: dleemiller on February 27, 2009, 08:04:20 AM

Title: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: dleemiller on February 27, 2009, 08:04:20 AM
I yanked the carbs of my '97 and I cannot for the life of me get these screws off. They were either put on by the hulk or vibrated tight. I'm scared to keep going at them with the screwdriver because theyre starting to strip. I know someone else has had this problem before. Any suggestions?
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: JHoffy8 on February 27, 2009, 08:22:38 AM
Check the wiki
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: jeremy_nash on February 27, 2009, 08:30:37 AM
I used vice-grips on the screw heads and broke them free like that.  some people will tell you to get an impact driver, thatwould work too
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: The Buddha on February 27, 2009, 08:38:12 AM
I drill or cut or do some other technique similar to capturing Godzilla ... so you may have to resort to some violence.

BTW I do these clean and rejet jobs for people - if needed. Pics and a write up about your specific carb and bit of its history included.

I charge $5 for each of these, and have never failed to get em off on any carb, and 01+ are much much worse.

$45+return shipping for a carb rejet and clean job parts and labor. And $22 shipped to your door for - mains for your setup, 40's washers and bolts.

Cool.
Buddha.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: utgunslinger13 on February 27, 2009, 08:43:28 AM
Someone posted awhile ago that there was a special screwdriver that fits into the screws and won't tear them up?  I haven't heard anything more since he posted but I don't know if that was true or not?
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: dleemiller on February 27, 2009, 08:46:28 AM
thanks for the suggestions. a screwdriver seems not to work, so i guess i'll resort to something a little more drastic. if i screw everything up i'll ship them to you buddha. haha. my bike has been sitting for a while, and i've been meaning to yank it apart and figure out why the throttle was slow and sometimes surging. hopefully it's something simple. the bike came with a VH exhaust and KN lunchbox, so i'm guessing someone screwed something up in the carbs.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: dleemiller on February 27, 2009, 08:47:32 AM
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on February 27, 2009, 08:43:28 AM
Someone posted awhile ago that there was a special screwdriver that fits into the screws and won't tear them up?  I haven't heard anything more since he posted but I don't know if that was true or not?

yeah that's the problem i'm having. i can't find a screwdriver that doesn't slip. and the screws appear to be brass so the heads are starting to get torn up.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: utgunslinger13 on February 27, 2009, 09:01:48 AM
It was posted within the last week or so, if you check the first 3-4 pages I bet you'll find it.  He posted a link to some japanese style screwdriver for 10-20 dollars.  Again, I've never used these so I'm not saying they will work.  But it was what stuck in my head last time someone mentioned the same issue.

Thanks,

Nick
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: Roadstergal on February 27, 2009, 09:44:45 AM
I cut a deep flathead notch, got them out with a flathead screwdriver, and threw them away.

The DR-Z has similar screws, and I did the same and replaced them with these (http://shop.thumpertalk.com/product_p/int_tt_drzbltkt.htm).  B, are they the same size?
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: fred on February 27, 2009, 11:12:08 AM
Quote from: dleemiller on February 27, 2009, 08:47:32 AM
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on February 27, 2009, 08:43:28 AM
Someone posted awhile ago that there was a special screwdriver that fits into the screws and won't tear them up?  I haven't heard anything more since he posted but I don't know if that was true or not?

yeah that's the problem i'm having. i can't find a screwdriver that doesn't slip. and the screws appear to be brass so the heads are starting to get torn up.

You want a JIS phillips head screwdriver. JIS stands for Japanese Industrial Standard. JIS phillips head screwdrivers are totally cool, they fit the phillips head screws on stuff designed in Japan perfectly and greatly reduce the chances of stripping out the head of the screw. I know a lot of people who have a collection of JIS screwdrivers for taking apart toys designed in Japan. A set of JIS screwdrivers won't set you back too much and you'll find that you can take all kinds of things apart with ease when you have them handy...
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: utgunslinger13 on February 27, 2009, 11:17:46 AM
JIS!!!! Thats what they were!
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: sledge on February 27, 2009, 11:19:16 AM
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on February 27, 2009, 09:01:48 AM
It was posted within the last week or so, if you check the first 3-4 pages I bet you'll find it.  He posted a link to some japanese style screwdriver for 10-20 dollars.  Again, I've never used these so I'm not saying they will work.  But it was what stuck in my head last time someone mentioned the same issue.

Thanks,

Nick

Not many bikers are aware of the fact that the screws used on carbs are made to Japanese standards or JIS. Despite looking like the standard ISO Phillips/Pozidrive/Frearson heads we use in the Western world the heads are in fact very different. Upshot is standard screwdrivers dont fit very well and are prone to camming out and damaging the head. The screwdrivers featured in the link I posted a few days ago are designed and made specificaly to fit JIS screwheads.
JIS screwheads are usualy, but not always identified by a dot on the top of screwhead in one of the quarters formed by the slots.

https://www.probuild-uk.co.uk/products/product.php?prodID=810&manID=&keyword=&catID=19&subCatID=120

Believe me they DO work.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: fred on February 27, 2009, 11:19:50 AM
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on February 27, 2009, 11:17:46 AM
JIS!!!! Thats what they were!

Yeah, they are like magic. I've used them to take apart many things like remote control cars and robotic dogs, but all the ones I have are on the smaller side... I'll have to get a set for my bike...
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: 5thAve on February 27, 2009, 11:20:53 AM
You can tell it's a JIS phillips screw by the little dot on the screw head, no?

I can't find a JIS screwdriver anywhere around here.

I tried to get my float bowls open with a regular #2 phillips -------  STRIPPED!  oh my goodness!

Used a hacksaw to cut a straight notch.
Took a mother-f%$king whack on my impact driver.
Out popped the screw.
Throwin' it out and going to replace it with same thread-size standard metric bolt.

Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: utgunslinger13 on February 27, 2009, 11:21:15 AM
Is there any box stores that sell these?  Like sears, harbor freight, etc?
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: sledge on February 27, 2009, 11:24:46 AM
If your in the USA buy them here mail order....

http://www.centralhobbies.com/Tools/jis.html
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: utgunslinger13 on February 27, 2009, 11:29:14 AM
meh, any local stores I might be tackling my carbs this weekend and would rather just go pick some up.  Maybe like a "hobby lobby" or something?

Thanks,

Nick
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: sledge on February 27, 2009, 11:32:32 AM
They are difficult things to track down, the main outlets seem to be hobby shops selling Remote-control gear.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: utgunslinger13 on February 27, 2009, 11:35:21 AM
Damn, not at like a big tool store?

Thanks,

Nick
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: 5thAve on February 27, 2009, 12:03:09 PM
I am not aware of any stores in Ottawa (Ontario) that stock 'em.  Home Depot / Rona / Canadian Tire and the like don't seem to believe me that such a thing exists!!

I have not tried hobby stores. 

But I think I prob'ly don't need a set that badly.  Maybe if I'm working more with R/C and the like, I'd get me a set. I don't think that our bikes really have many JIS screws other than on the carbs -- and now that I've got mine off I'll replace them with allen head bolts anyway.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: The Buddha on February 27, 2009, 12:06:19 PM
If they were tightened with Jap spec tools at the factory, well, if they were indeed tightened till they turned blue, I dont what can loosen them. Its possibly to screw the head up even with the right tool.
Cool.
Buddha.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: utgunslinger13 on February 27, 2009, 12:06:37 PM
I just spent the last 30 minutes calling around to hobby/RC stores in Phoenix AZ and not a single place had even heard of them!

Thanks,

Nick
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: The Buddha on February 27, 2009, 12:08:37 PM
Quote from: dleemiller on February 27, 2009, 08:46:28 AM
thanks for the suggestions. a screwdriver seems not to work, so i guess i'll resort to something a little more drastic. if i screw everything up i'll ship them to you buddha. haha. my bike has been sitting for a while, and i've been meaning to yank it apart and figure out why the throttle was slow and sometimes surging. hopefully it's something simple. the bike came with a VH exhaust and KN lunchbox, so i'm guessing someone screwed something up in the carbs.

Slow and surging. Well they are opposites, but they are both likely lean ...

If you have DJ crap in it, thank you stars it even runs. Forget fixing it, they sell you %&^%$%^^& jets and you try and buy &*^&*%&* + 1 size jets, they dont have em, they say you have to buy )(I*^&&*(*) only.

Cool.
Buddha.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: dleemiller on February 27, 2009, 04:19:49 PM
suppose you were to rejet your gs, what would you get?

and thanks for that link...those screwdrivers are even too obscure for ebay!
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: Roadstergal on February 27, 2009, 04:27:35 PM
Quote from: dleemiller on February 27, 2009, 04:19:49 PMsuppose you were to rejet your gs, what would you get?

Quote from: Roadstergal on February 27, 2009, 09:44:45 AMThe DR-Z has similar screws, and I did the same and replaced them with these (http://shop.thumpertalk.com/product_p/int_tt_drzbltkt.htm).  B, are they the same size?

:p  Even though the carbs are slightly different, I'd be shocked if the screws weren't the same size - Japanese manufacturers like to make as many bikes out of as few parts as possible.  I don't have the stock carbs on my GS, but I remember them looking just like the Drizz bowls.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: average on February 27, 2009, 04:58:37 PM
Quote from: utgunslinger13 on February 27, 2009, 11:35:21 AM
Damn, not at like a big tool store?

Thanks,

Nick
Try the nearest Fastenal in your area. or online.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: dleemiller on February 27, 2009, 05:30:46 PM
ugh just tried vice grips. not even close  >:(
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: dleemiller on February 27, 2009, 05:52:51 PM
hitting them with wd-40 now. next attempt, cutting a slot with the dremel and bringing the flathead wrath.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: Suzuki Stevo on February 27, 2009, 06:26:38 PM
I got all 8 of mine out in a matter of minutes...

(http://home.comcast.net/~stykers/screw.jpg)
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: JHoffy8 on February 27, 2009, 06:39:34 PM
Stevo.. those dont look like the stock screws.. atleast not the ones on my carbs. Mine were nickle or brass and a total pain in the ass!
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: dleemiller on February 27, 2009, 06:46:10 PM
i railed on 1 screw with vice grips for 20 mins. no movement at all. just chewed up the side a bunch.  :2guns:
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: Suzuki Stevo on February 27, 2009, 06:49:41 PM
Quote from: JHoffy8 on February 27, 2009, 06:39:34 PM
Stevo.. those dont look like the stock screws.. atleast not the ones on my carbs. Mine were nickle or brass and a total pain in the ass!
My bike is a K7, and that is one of the screws that I removed.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: Suzuki Stevo on February 27, 2009, 07:02:08 PM
Quote from: dleemiller on February 27, 2009, 06:46:10 PM
i railed on 1 screw with vice grips for 20 mins. no movement at all. just chewed up the side a bunch.  :2guns:

You have to get the Vice Grips on tight enough to deform the sides of the screw to get a good enough grip and then it comes right off.

(http://home.comcast.net/~stykers/screw01.jpg)
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: philward on February 28, 2009, 03:26:01 AM
I wrote a wiki guide to removing the carb screws (http://wiki.gstwins.com/index.php?n=Maintenance.FreeSeizedCarbScrews). I found the #1-pozidrive-screwdriver-with-a-firm-hammer-tap method freed almost all screws first time.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: drewbytes on February 28, 2009, 01:12:02 PM
I ended up hacksawing a slot across the heads and then using a flat head to remove mine. As said a Philips #2 just didn't want to work, athough I got 2 of 8 out ok, the rest I tore to bits.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: dleemiller on February 28, 2009, 05:39:56 PM
ok i'm gonna try this tomorrow. i'll let you know how it goes.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: dleemiller on March 02, 2009, 05:00:51 PM
hizzah! they're off. i cut a slot with a dremel on each of the screws, inserted flathead and STILL had to grab the shank of the flathead with some pliers to get enough torque to pop those suckers out.

if you have a dremel, i used something like bit G to do the job. took me all of 15 minutes.  :cheers:

(http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com/tnt1/001-100/TNT020_Dremel_Mini-Mite/images/dremel-2.jpg)


only problem is that the bowls look really clean.  :mad:

we'll see when i pull the jets out.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: The Buddha on March 02, 2009, 05:09:55 PM
The bike runs like Krappe (shut up its french) cos well ... its designed to.

Rather - its designed to satisfy California EPA, and they are satisfied only if it runs like sheite ...

Cool.
Buddha.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: dleemiller on March 02, 2009, 05:16:30 PM
lol well if it ran like crap i'd be pleased...because it's not running at all.  :cry:

however i did notice that the main jet is marked 127.5 and on the page it says 120 or 122.5. Is this a problem?
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: The Buddha on March 02, 2009, 06:05:20 PM
If youre reading right - that jet is for a pipe and a K&N in the airbox. BTW you can read the 122.5 as 127.5 they are very close.
You need 40 pilots, 125 mains 3 on mix screws and 1 washer under needle for a stock bike.
Cool.
Buddha.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: dleemiller on March 02, 2009, 07:05:38 PM
that's correct buddha. there is a k&n in the airbox. so i guess these are right.

for anyone wondering, i think the brass screws that hold the bowls on are 10-32's x 0.5" length. someone correct me if i'm wrong.
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: dleemiller on March 02, 2009, 07:17:06 PM
one more thing. i also bought a carb rebuild kit thinking i would need it.... major waste of money. don't buy one. i don't even need to replace any of the stuff that came in it. it's just $25 down the hole. if you find you need any of those parts after opening up your carbs, buy them individually once you've determined you need them.

noob mistake.  :cookoo:
Title: Re: Soft Metal Screws on Float Bowls
Post by: The Buddha on March 02, 2009, 08:16:50 PM
Quote from: dleemiller on March 02, 2009, 07:05:38 PM
that's correct buddha. there is a k&n in the airbox. so i guess these are right.

for anyone wondering, i think the brass screws that hold the bowls on are 10-32's x 0.5" length. someone correct me if i'm wrong.

Yes there was much buddha bashing on this topic.
They are really 5mm .8 pitch 12mm length. And yes allen is a good replacement.
Of course on the street, 5mm crap is really imprecise, made by crack heads who cut the threads with their teeth. But you can get high quality SS 10-32's in allen head.
Of course in my jet pack I provide SS button head allen 5X12 bolts. I had to just buy a pickup truck full of these, but I have em ... so ...
Cool.
Buddha.