I just finished installing some brand new HID headlights on my GS500f. I gotta say they are really nice and bright and I made sure to get the Bi-xenons so I don't lose high beams and it has a metal shield to prevent glare on low beams. The metal shield needed some modification to fit but no problem just dremeled some notches and bent them in a little. The light pattern is actually more defined than with the original halogens and the larger metal shield actually reduces oncoming glare. I got 50w hid's and man are they plenty bright useful cause I ride at night a lot because of working late and going to school late also.
pics please?
Simulated HID's? or Real with the ballasts and all? Reason I ask is I remember a topic on here a little while back discussing the GS's electrical system, possibly not having enough juice to start the HID bulbs. Beings how true HID's require a higher jolt to start.
Ok I'm gonna put to rest all the myths surrounding HID's. They have ballasts and are not simply colored light bulbs. The ballasts are digitally regulated so unlike filament bulbs current actually goes down when the engine is running since the ballast maintains constant power, therefore higher input voltage=less current. In my case once warmed up they consume 4.5 amps when the engine is running, 5 when off which translated to roughly 60 watts. These are 50w high output HID's. Normal ones are 35 watts. Mine necessitate hard wiring cause they are higher powered but not so high as to present any real risk to draining my battery since running current is about the same. As for startup current, yes it's higher, approximatly 160% running current, in my case it's 8 amps briefly then settles to running current in about 30 seconds. So in a 35 watt system you're looking at about 3 amps running current, about 5 amps starting current. Standard halogens use 60/55 watts, 60 watts which would be about 5 amps means 35 watt hid's present no more risk to your electrical system than regular halogens.
this is awesome. you should post a write-up on it as well as pics...
I'd love to see pictures of this setup. Thanks for the discussion on power usage, that was helpful. I have a question though: when you say hard wired, what do you mean? Did you have to run additional wiring from the battery to handle the load from the HIDs because the stock wiring was not heavy enough? Did you just use relays to keep the standard headlight functionality (goes off with ignition, high beam switch) or does yours now work in some other way?
Hard wire means you have to run power cables to the relay box, I also extended it's ground to the battery since it's pretty short considering it was made for cars, I technically can put a second ballast and bulb since it has two outputs but 16 amps starting current and 100w of hid light would be crazy on a motorcycle. Here's some pics.
(http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/9056/p3110016.jpg)
This is the spare bulb and ballast I have cause it's a car kit, motorcycle kits are just car kits split in half with longer wiring, yet they charge the same price as car kits :dunno_white: in case any of mine fail I've got spares.
(http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/4313/p3110017.jpg)
Here's the bulb in the headlight housing, notice the shild is bigger, it required some modding to fit right, you can't see it but there are some notches cut out in the dome allowing me to "shrink" it by bending it in. The light is neat because it has a solenoid and sucks the bulb inward to activate high beam.
(http://img502.imageshack.us/img502/3370/p3110018.jpg)
Here's how everything mounted up. It's aweful tight in the front. The ballast is the silver foam covered thing, I wanted to isolate it from vibration since that can sometimes make it fail overtime. The relay box is lower right. You can see the boot had to be cut to fit the larger bulb base.
Very cool. Thanks for the pics and info.
damn you, i was gonna be the first to do this. jk. what temp did you get. i like 6000k the best. h4 right?
+1 on hoping we get a full write up :icon_mrgreen:
I got 4300k because it offers the most light. Sorry no write up as it's installed already. It's all very straightforward other than extending the power and grounds all you do is plug everything in. Also modding the light's shield was a bit of a chore.
Very slick idea, qwertydude! Since it's a custom job and the starting current is high, that would be two good reasons to put a switch in series with it so you can leave the headlamp off until the bike is started.
I miss a headlight switch myself. Back in the day all my bikes had them. Good job! :thumb:
Well it doesn't stay on as the bike is cranked, the original headlight harness still provides the switching for on and off and high beam. So it turns off when cranking.
pics of the headlight beam at night (against a wall) and pics of it head on.
4300K is standard daylight (anywhere between 4300-5000K). Any higher will leave it blue.
I wish the previous round headlights could use HID. Mine I know is glaring at low beam to cars in front and in high beam its very bright.. i am not changing mine.
Very nice, good job!
So can I get dibs on the extra bulb and ballast or what?! :icon_lol:
So how does this work without a projector lens like cars have?
Does that bulb cover prevent the beam from spreading high?
What model did you buy and where you get it from.
I have cars that run H4 bulbs as well.
Cool.
Buddha.
seamax, the projectors focus light in a certain way and give a very prominent cutoff. this bulb block the bottom portion of the bulb so that the light doesn't hit the bottom reflectors and bounce up into people's eyes.
Quote from: seamax on March 12, 2009, 09:11:31 AM
So how does this work without a projector lens like cars have?
Does that bulb cover prevent the beam from spreading high?
+1. You're gong to blind people like that. You need to house it in projector casing not a standard
http://www.8thcivic.com/forums/lighting-h-i-d-s-neon/136911-do-you-need-get-retro-projectors-do-hids.html
with projectors
(http://img46.imageshack.us/img46/8752/hid6ia.jpg)
without projectors == blinding :mad: :mad: :mad: (dude where did the old angry face go?)
(http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y115/HardBoiler/IMG_0218.jpg)
tussey, read dem posts boy. these bulbs have a part that blocks light from going down out of the bulb. so it all hits the upper reflector part, thus having a cutoff point
For all you naysayers out there here's actual beamshots of my headlights and a little schooling. Seems on these here internets everyone just keeps repeating what everyone else wrote, very little empirical data gathering and thinking things through. I've thought out how to go about modidng my lights to hid's but without being a big jerk and blinding those around me, I hate those guys as much as everyone else. I also think the GS500 has excellently designed headlights just ripe for modding to hid. Here's the actual bulb and a comparison to a DOT Sylvania Silverstar H4. First a little physics lesson.
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/3240/p3120029.jpg)
Ok as you can see there is a low beam shield on the Silverstar bottom filament, and a much larger shield outside the HID bulb, compare that to the tiny shield inside the Silverstar. If we all step into our wayback machines and return to our physics classroom specifically lessons in optics (I'm sure no one paid attention then because I certainly wouldn't even have to explain any of this if everyone had) you'll remember that the further an object is from a point source light, the sharper a shadow it casts. The big shield is much further than the little internal shield so it will project a sharper cutoff line. Also the bulb sits near the focal point of the big shield, the center of it since it's circular, so any reflected light is reflected back almost perfectly into the light making it even more of an ideal point source light. Thus the reflector is still optimized for projecting a decent cutoff.
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9858/p3120030.jpg)
This is a shot of the low beam against a wall about 30 feet away, as you can see it has a very well defined cutoff. Just remember though cutoff insn't everything. Cutoff isn't everything it's cracked up to be either, since you're on a bouncy bike if you hit a little bump the visual someone approaching you sees is basically no light to maximum illumination, so that poor guys eyes just got blasted like a camera flash, so a little light leakage up top is not all that bad, there's a very slight amount in mine due to light leakage out of the high beam slot in the shield, plus one other thing about not having any light above the cutoff is you can't see reflective signs at all. It's very annoying in projector beams to not be able to read road signs.
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8047/p3120031.jpg)
Here it is in high beam, yes it really is that bright.
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/9144/p3120027.jpg)
This is a head on shot at eye level, cameras are very sensitive to glare and as you can see you can still see the outline of the bottom of my bike. In reality it's really no worse than with my Silverstar. I atrribute it to the fact that there is a much better shield design on the HID bulb than the tiny internal shield and painted tip of the regular H4.
(http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/6268/p3120026.jpg)
Here's an in beam shot at the same exposure as the eye level, this is what the full brunt of the glare would look like in an unfocused beam.
Another thing to add is that this is a high powered 50w hid system so any glare you think you'd see would be automatically cut by a third if you get the 35 watt version which should be plenty bright already. Standard H4 3200k ~1000-1100 lumens, 35w HID 4300k ~3200 lumens (three times brighter), 50w HID 4300k
~5200 lumens! (five times brighter)
And if you want to get it here's the one I ordered. Funny it says it's in Bridgeport but my box says it's from Yu Jing Park Gui Chen, Foshan People's Republic of China.http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/50W-H4-8000K-Bi-Xenon-Telescopic-Hi-Lo-Conversion-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ36476QQihZ006QQitemZ160284373767QQtcZphoto
Here's a much less costly 35w kit.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/H4-4300K-Bi-Xenon-Real-Telescopic-Hi-Lo-Conversion-Kit_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQcategoryZ36476QQihZ006QQitemZ160316970611QQtcZphoto
Cool. Thanks for the discussion and the photos. They're tempting, but only my project bike uses H4 headlight lamps and it doesn't run yet... Perhaps when I finally get it running right, I'll celebrate with some sweet new HID's...
I see that it comes with 2 ballasts and 2 bulbs but 1 wiring harness.
Could 2 people split one of these kits?
It's possible if one person clips their wiring harness in half and the other person is willing to live without the relay you could directly wire the ballast and high beam system to the headlight wires. This would mean some creative wiring and you'll be limited to the 35 watt model if you don't want to risk blowing a fuse.
I think I could buy a relay and use it, as opposed to connecting directly to the headlights. If 2 people split the 35w kit it would almost be cheaper than buying a set of silverstars.
their location says bridgeport, if that is bridgeport texas I will go pick up a set and avoid shipping if they let me.
will this work in the E model headlight?
No, glass faceted lights produces too much glare, take a look at the light's profile on a wall and unless there's a clean cutoff line you'll probably blind oncoming traffic.
who cares if they are blind as long as i can see....muuuuhhhhahahaha
Until the blind cager hits you! lol
Quote from: qwertydude on March 13, 2009, 07:30:25 AM
It's possible if one person clips their wiring harness in half and the other person is willing to live without the relay you could directly wire the ballast and high beam system to the headlight wires. This would mean some creative wiring and you'll be limited to the 35 watt model if you don't want to risk blowing a fuse.
I'd like to know what you bought and from where and how much.
I have to slice my wiring harness open. For sure. Its got that section a bit charred and melted.
Cool.
Srinath.
The second to last link on my post has exactly what I bought.
Sorry to be the voice of reason, but has anyone considered the heat generated by this type of bulb and the all plastic F front fairing?
About the old style round headlights:
Is there a way to put a non-faceted glass into a one? Anybody sells such thing?
Jenya
Anxiously awaiting answers to Jenya's and Lawman's question!
they produce at or less heat dispersion than regular h4 bulbs. tons of people put these in non-hid housings, and did you not notice that he has a F? wouldn't you think he'd notice everything melting?
Quote from: jrains89 on March 13, 2009, 04:40:00 PM
they produce at or less heat dispersion than regular h4 bulbs. tons of people put these in non-hid housings, and did you not notice that he has a F? wouldn't you think he'd notice everything melting?
Are you SURE of that? More light, brighter, and less heat? That doesn't seem, oh, either unlikely or impossible to you?
http://www.bikeforums.net/archive/index.php/t-241135.html
Uh... sure... after it had started melting...
my silverstars put out way more heat than my roommates hid's. you linked to a thread where people argued about the same stuff, the last post even says that heat IS NOT AN ISSUE, with HID's.
If you don't believe it then just ignore all of the people who have these in regular housings, which includes the op.
Quote from: lawman on March 13, 2009, 05:28:04 PM
Are you SURE of that? More light, brighter, and less heat? That doesn't seem, oh, either unlikely or impossible to you?
Watts are a measure of joules (energy) per second. The critical factor is the amount of energy expended as heat vs. light. A completely inefficient 10W light bulb would convert all of the energy to radiant heat (melting wires, etc.). Therefore, if light bulb A is 50% efficient, 50% of the energy would be converted to light and the other 50% would be wasted (usually by heat). On the other extreme, a completely efficient light bulb will convert all of the energy to light. So, for light bulb B, which is 80% efficient, 80% of the energy would be converted to light and the other 20% would be wasted.
with HID's the K within the rating is the Kelvin rating, now this is where people end up getting confused, yes kelvin is a measurement of temperature but in this case its a measurement of the colour temperature of the light, not the temperature that the bulb reaches, no matter what the rating is be it a 5000k or a 12000k the only difference between the two of these bulbs is the colour of the light not the physical temperature as they will both run at exactly the same tempratures. Basicaly if you look at physics they start to talk about the colour of light that is associated with the black body radiation of an object at that temperature in degrees Kelvin. For reference, the sun is about 6000 Kelvin and can roughly be treated as a black body.
Well, when it comes to temperature (i.e., hotness or coldness), Kelvin temperature = Celsius temperature + 273.15. So 4300K = 4026.85 degrees Celsius, safe to say a 4300K bulb aint burning at 4026.85 degrees Celsius lol. ok geek mode over lol.
But from an H4 to an HID, the HID will run cooler overall.
I hope this makes sense, if not just tell me to shut the hell up lol
wanted some HIDs for a while now, because I too do a lot of night riding, also a little bit of ricer in me :D Bought some!
Quote from: platinum_black on March 13, 2009, 06:45:32 PM
with HID's the K within the rating is the Kelvin rating, now this is where people end up getting confused, yes kelvin is a measurement of temperature but in this case its a measurement of the colour temperature of the light, not the temperature that the bulb reaches, no matter what the rating is be it a 5000k or a 12000k the only difference between the two of these bulbs is the colour of the light not the physical temperature as they will both run at exactly the same tempratures. Basicaly if you look at physics they start to talk about the colour of light that is associated with the black body radiation of an object at that temperature in degrees Kelvin. For reference, the sun is about 6000 Kelvin and can roughly be treated as a black body.
Well, when it comes to temperature (i.e., hotness or coldness), Kelvin temperature = Celsius temperature + 273.15. So 4300K = 4026.85 degrees Celsius, safe to say a 4300K bulb aint burning at 4026.85 degrees Celsius lol. ok geek mode over lol.
But from an H4 to an HID, the HID will run cooler overall.
I hope this makes sense, if not just tell me to shut the hell up lol
Yeah, if color temperature were the same as operating temperature, you'd have problems... The surface of the sun is only 5780K...
Quote from: fred on March 14, 2009, 01:24:00 PM
Yeah, if color temperature were the same as operating temperature, you'd have problems... The surface of the sun is only 5780K...
lol yeah we would end u p heating the sun rather than vice-versa :laugh:
Quote from: platinum_black on March 13, 2009, 06:45:32 PM
with HID's the K within the rating is the Kelvin rating, now this is where people end up getting confused, yes kelvin is a measurement of temperature but in this case its a measurement of the colour temperature of the light, not the temperature that the bulb reaches, no matter what the rating is be it a 5000k or a 12000k the only difference between the two of these bulbs is the colour of the light not the physical temperature as they will both run at exactly the same tempratures. Basicaly if you look at physics they start to talk about the colour of light that is associated with the black body radiation of an object at that temperature in degrees Kelvin. For reference, the sun is about 6000 Kelvin and can roughly be treated as a black body.
Well, when it comes to temperature (i.e., hotness or coldness), Kelvin temperature = Celsius temperature + 273.15. So 4300K = 4026.85 degrees Celsius, safe to say a 4300K bulb aint burning at 4026.85 degrees Celsius lol. ok geek mode over lol.
But from an H4 to an HID, the HID will run cooler overall.
I hope this makes sense, if not just tell me to shut the hell up lol
I understood, 0 Kelvin = - 375 Celcius (Absolute Zero). As celcius is based upon water 0 is its freezing point and 100 being is boiling point kelvin is much easier to understand with HID's :D1
glad it made sense to atleast one person lol
would you be able to take a picture of it on HI and LO Beam on a dark street at night to see the effects? Would be greatly appreciated :)
Quote from: allaussiegrown on March 14, 2009, 05:48:24 PM
I understood, 0 Kelvin = - 375 Celcius (Absolute Zero). As celcius is based upon water 0 is its freezing point and 100 being is boiling point kelvin is much easier to understand with HID's :D1
273 ??? or nowadays with the global warming we have made it to 375 ;)
Cool.
Buddha.
I'd ordered a pair of the 35w HIDs from the ebay seller you linked. Mine also shipped from China and showed up surprisingly fast, so thats good. Anyways. From what I've read in this thread, it isnt a simple plug and play obviously. You said you had to modify:
1. the metal shield to fit.
2. extend the power and ground wires.
I'm very not electrically inclined, but will have someone who's installed car HIDs help me. Can you give me any help on how exactly to do the mods to make this work without blinding everyone?
(I could have just pm'd you but I decided to revive the thread so any info would be up for others to see and hopefully other gstwinners will try the mod too 8) )
ordered mine as well. hope it all goes well.. my poor battery.. good thing i have the battery tender jr.
Everyone who's got them installed should talk about them on this thread too, also post beamshots if you don't get a clean cutoff, cause then you did something wrong.
Quote from: qwertydude on March 21, 2009, 11:37:51 PM
Everyone who's got them installed should talk about them on this thread too, also post beamshots if you don't get a clean cutoff, cause then you did something wrong.
still waiting for that part....
I got mine installed, and I dont have any beamshots yet, probably wont be able to get it til the weekend.
A few remarks on my install so far.
The kit is bright, obviously as it should be.
The cut off is pretty good actually, as far as parallel to ground level.
The problem with mine is that I have glaring light coming out around the sides, which is a problem for oncoming traffic. :nono:
I may not have correctly shrunk the metal reflector or something.
I still have one more try on the spare, and if it doesnt work, I may end up just blocking part of the headlights with some dark tint.
good luck to all who try this mod, pics will hopefully come in a week
i just installed on mine. The number 1 biggest problem i had with this setup is shrinking the bulb head.. That took at least 2 hours of just consistent squeezing and using the dremel. There is not even any way for me to tell you how i did it.. i just kept squeezing side and bending some and finally got it in. That is the hard part and the only hard part.. the wiring was a breeze.
overall this is a great mod. It is scary when trying to fanangle that bulb head into that hole.. just cause you think you may be messing it up..but you just have to keep trying.. at some point i was ready to freaking throw this thing away. i dremeled on about 5 spots.. 3 on the bulb head area and 2 on the flat side.. Then i ended up screwing the thing from the inside instead of the outside where it was orginally screwed from.
Well that was my way of getting that baby in there.....
now that it is in..i am way way happy with it.
Yea the hard part is definitely shrinking the bulb, but I did get mine in there, my beam pattern has a nice cutoff in the center to the top, but disperses on the sides though.
How is yours bluehaze, and did u keep trying to shrink it slowly just to get it to fit in while being as big as possible?
I tried the slow and easy in the beggining.. at about 1 hour into it.. i said @#$!@ this and just started doing what i can to shrink the sucker to size.. i am definitely getting that light escape on the side.. i also have a very distinc line for low beam.. so i am good there.. just that on the side people driving toward me can get blinded.. i need to do something about that as well.. it may be the bulb thing needs a bit of resizing. As i am writing this..i am have a blind spot from looking at that freaking bulb. :technical:
Quote from: Jenya on March 13, 2009, 03:50:28 PM
About the old style round headlights:
Is there a way to put a non-faceted glass into a one? Anybody sells such thing?
Jenya
You could swap to the SV plastic lens.
(http://img300.imageshack.us/img300/9056/p3110016.jpg)
i bought a kit with these helligkeit ballasts and right out of the box, one of them had a constant flicker. the other one worked for almost a year and died last month. i opened one of them up and there was condensation inside and corrosion. they are not built well but are very cheap in price and quality. one of the bulbs also went out a few months ago.
i had an older kit before these with the same style ballasts but were made much better and lasted me almost 2 years. i recently bought a slim kit that so far works fine. just minor flicker every once in a while.
you really do get what you pay for on the ballasts and ebay often prices these kits accordingly.
i would recomend an h4 bulb on ebay that has the high beam as a separate halogen. it looked a little big so i never went into HID. i would recomend that style of bulb if you can find it so that just in case the ballast or hid bulb dies while at night, you'll still have a halogen highbeam to flip on in case of emergency. i would not be happy at all if both my beams weren't available all of a sudden while i'm going highway speeds in the dark. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2-Bulb-HID-Xenon-H4-2-Low-Xenon-High-Halogen-10000K_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a3Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem110356292093QQitemZ110356292093QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
or even these that have dual bulbs. but if you're ballast dies, you're sol. http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/BI-XENON-HID-bulbs-H4-H13-9004-9007-Dual-Beam-50W-55W_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQ_trkparmsZ66Q3a2Q7c65Q3a3Q7c39Q3a1Q7c240Q3a1318QQ_trksidZp3286Q2ec0Q2em14QQhashZitem140305888201QQitemZ140305888201QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories
is there a difference between H4 and 9003 bulbs?
Negative
I'm going to be installing mine this weekend, and I'm a lil stymied as to how I'm going to get the shield through the hole without dremeling the headlight.
i wouldnt mess with the headlight hole itself. it will put debris inside your headlight that would be a pain to get out. the best way i can think of is to resize the bulb head. very hard to do.. just fyi.
Quote from: The Buddha on March 13, 2009, 11:07:47 AM
Quote from: qwertydude on March 13, 2009, 07:30:25 AM
It's possible if one person clips their wiring harness in half and the other person is willing to live without the relay you could directly wire the ballast and high beam system to the headlight wires. This would mean some creative wiring and you'll be limited to the 35 watt model if you don't want to risk blowing a fuse.
I'd like to know what you bought and from where and how much.
I have to slice my wiring harness open. For sure. Its got that section a bit charred and melted.
Cool.
Srinath.
Where did you get the wiring harness for the headlight from, the previous owner did that to my gsxr and i fixed it ... with electrical tape. Its as you describe charred and melted. then there was the mice, so the healight is still electrical taped w/ whats left of the H4 harness :icon_lol: :icon_lol:
Didn't have to dremel at all. I compressed the shield from side to side with some channel-locks and was able to slip it in without any cutting at all. The cutoff is rather sharp and I didn't have to re-aim at all.
I'm surprised by how fast the solenoid switches from lowbeam to high, and I think it'd be excellent for flashing to pass, but with the light being so bright now, I'm not going to ride during the day with my highbeam on anymore - I have no interest in blinding all the poor cagers.
My only present concern is what I'm going to do with all the wiring when I de-fair my F and go naked.
Shoehorn it all into the headlight bucket....ballast and all. I do believe it would fit with a little bit of thought.
Quote from: average on July 02, 2009, 02:44:15 PM
Shoehorn it all into the headlight bucket....ballast and all. I do believe it would fit with a little bit of thought.
I suppose it might, but I don't wanna break the seal on the light, and I'm not convinced it'd all fit inside of an F headlamp assembly anyway.
I'm not going to be using a 7" round, I'm going to keep the light I've got. 'sides, the ballast is pretty big.